The Biblical Foundations of Purgatory

[GodsGrace]

Yes there is some biblical basis for purgatory. I looked into it myself. But I didn't really understand it enough to adopt it to my doctrine other than to say that Jesus released some from prison when he died. The two important scriptures point out that Jesus taught the spirits in prison. The other says he has the keys of "hell" and death.

The final scripture that relates points out that there are sins that are not unto death.

You studied it well because the verses you speak of are used for support...especially the one regarding the parable of the prisoner that would not be freed till all was paid.

As for those being released from prison...this absolutely does not intend to mean persons in purgatory, but those in paradise,,,
Luke 16:19.... these were awaiting the sacrifice of Jesus to be able to enter into heaven.

I'm not sure what the keys of hell and death are referring to.

 

[Berserk]

GodsGrace: "I don't understand your last sentence at all.
How are people baptized on behalf of the dead? (1 cor 15:29)"

A family member substitutes for the unavailable deceased unsaved loved one and is rebaptized as a proxy for that family member. By implication, this practice builds on the Jewish practice (and thus later the Catholic practice) of praying for the dead.
GG: "Do you believe that purgatory is one of the 3 heavens?"

GG: "As purgatory has been taught until very recently, it is nothing like heaven at all.
It still had fire and all the terrible things of hell...this was necessary for the purging."

You don't understand the Jewish concept of "Heaven," shared by Paul (2 Cor. 12:2, 4), according to which "Heaven" is a term that embraces both blissful heaven realms and hellish realms. That is why nowhere in the Bible is it said that when the righteous die, they go to "Heaven." Instead, they enter "the kingdom of God," also called "the kingdom of Heaven," the realm of the King). As already mentioned, "Paradise" (meaning "park" or "garden") is the preferred destination for the redeemed dead (Luke 23:42-43) and is located in the 3rd Heaven. By implication, of course, the 2 lower Heavens are to be avoided at all costs. Why? Because they are purgative or even hellish realms (see the descriptions in 2 Enoch).

GG: "The fact that the idea did not even come about till about the 800's, or even later, tells me it was not present at the time of the Apostles or of the Apostolic Fathers or Early Church Fathers."

Don't confuse the jargon with the underlying concept. First-century Jews, followed by Jesus, have their own term for "Purgatory:" they called it "Gehenna, " a realm from which ultimate release was often expected for many. YOU DO REALIZE THE C. S. LEWIS, PERHAPS THE MOST EMINENT EVANGELICA AUTHOR OF THE 2OTH CENTURY BELIEVED IN PURGATORY!

GG: "Recently purgatory has been made to be much softer.
Also, there is no time frame given for the amount of time spent there...this must be because the CC
correctly knows that there is NO TIME after death since we go to eternity...there is no time frame in eternity."

I made it clear that first-century Jews provided the foundation for Catholic Purgatory. I never said they were the same. One differnce is that the rabbis speculated about the length of time one might need to stay in Gehenna.

GG: "The verses in 1 cor 3:15 are used by the CC as support...but the meaning is really misunderstood by most of us.
It's not referring to our works at all, but the work of ministers."

Not "ministers," but laymen who are followers of Peter (Cephas), Apollos, and Paul in the sense of having been mentored and baptized by them. (see 2:12-15 and 3:5-6)." We don't get to assign a meaning to the expression "saved, yet so as by fire" that avoids its postmortem application to Gehenna in the Jewish culture of Paul's day.

 

[Enoch111]

I'm not sure what the keys of hell and death are referring to.

That is Hades (not Hell as incorrectly shown in the KJV) and Death, and the keys are metaphorical.

So in what sense does Christ wield the "keys" of Hades and Death? Christ released all the OT saints from Hades when He was resurrected. So that was one "key" that He used. In fact He destroyed "the gates of Hades" when He rose from the dead. Then at the Resurrection/Rapture Christ will use the "key" of death to release all the saints from physical death by giving them immortal glorified bodies.

 

[Curtis]

This thread will focus successively on how Jesus, Paul, Peter, and John the Seer lay the foundation for the later Catholic doctrine of Purgatory.

[1] THE GEHENNA CONCEPT SHARED BY BOTH JESUS AND CONTEMPORARY RABBIS:

The Feast of Hanukkah celebrates Judas Maccabaeus' victories during the Maccabean revolt (175-163 BC). In one of his decisive victories, Judas defeated an army of 5,000 Arabs. Tiny idols were found in the possession of dead Jewish freedom fighters; so Judas orders prayer for Jewish casualties, who were found with tiny idols in their possession. These prayers for the dead were accompanied by sin offerings in the Temple (2 Maccabees 12:38-44)." Since Jesus attended and revered this feast (John 10:22) and so, He likely respected the prayers and sacrifices celebrated in it, He likely approved of the prayers for the military dead.

Of course, prayers for the sinful dead presume the possibility of retrieval from "Gehenna," Jesus' preferred word for Hell. Much like the later concept of Purgatory, Gehenna was considered a realm of a temporary sojourn for many sinners. For example, Rabbi Akiba (c. 50-135 AD) from the NT era taught that sinners stayed in Gehenna for just 12 months (Shabbat 33b). Similarly, Jesus teaches that postmortem punish might consist of "many" or "few stripes (Luke 12:47-48)," imagery that implies a finite limit and therefore ultimate release.

A finite limit is also implied in Jesus' poetic description of postmortem punishment:
"Come to terms quickly with your accuser (Satan's role in Job) while you are on your way to court with him, or the accuser may hand you over to the Judge (God), and the Judge to the guard (Hell's demons), and you will be thrown into prison (Gehenna). Truly I tell you, you will never get out of there until you have paid the last penny (Matthew 5:25-26)."

There are 5 reasons to take this as a description of punishment in Gehenna:
(1) It makes no sense if taken literally: Jesus would be crassly telling the disciple how they can beat the rap on criminal charges.
(2) More importantly, in 40 cases Jesus always uses the formula "Truly I tell you" to our relationship with God and never to a purely secular situation.
(3) Elsewhere Jesus stresses the necessity of paying off sin debts in postmortem prison (Matthew 18:34).
(4) In early Christianity Matthew 5:25-26 is always understood symbolically, never literally.
(5) thus, Luke locates this saying in an eschatological context (12:57-59).

But what about Gospel texts that speak of eternal punishment (Matthew 25:41, 46)?
No problem for 2 reasons: (1) The Aramaic "olam" and Greek "aionios" often translated "forever" can both designate a finite duration. (2) The rabbinic concept of punishment in Gehenna for a limited time acknowledges that certain categories of sinner are never retrieved from there. So the positions of both Jesus and contemporary rabbis do not endorse ultimate universal salvation, but only a purification for a limited time, much akin to the Catholic Purgatory.
(1)

Purgatory is a great money making scam from the papacy.

They make a lot of money from saying Mass for the dead, and used to make a ton of money by selling indulgences, which were a ‘get-out-of-going-to-purgatory’ pass.