The Blended Gospel

[tom55]

I already quoted you.

I guess this is your way of sheepishly back peddling out of this conversation? I understand why you are backing out. You can't logically support your theory and you can't quote me.

I'm not mad at ya'...... :)

 

[FHII]

I guess this is your way of sheepishly back peddling out of this conversation? I understand why you are backing out. You can't logically support your theory and you can't quote me.

I'm not mad at ya'...... :)

No, this is my way of not responding to your attempt at entrapment.

Face it Tom. My answer is foolproof. The Holy Spirit is not going to contradict the Bible. If anyone preaches something contradictory to the bible, he isn't led by the Holy Spirit.

Throw any "what ifs" you want at me. The answer isn't going to change. So, I actually did answer your scinerios even before you asked them.

Its that simple. And I refuse any attempt to circumvent that.

Like you said yourself, I see through your ruse.

 

[tom55]

No, this is my way of not responding to your attempt at entrapment.

Face it Tom. My answer is foolproof. The Holy Spirit is not going to contradict the Bible. If anyone preaches something contradictory to the bible, he isn't led by the Holy Spirit.

Throw any "what ifs" you want at me. The answer isn't going to change. So, I actually did answer your scinerios even before you asked them.

Its that simple. And I refuse any attempt to circumvent that.

Like you said yourself, I see through your ruse.

If you just answer the question, which is a actual scenario that is being played out today in the year 2016 and has been for 500 years, then we could end this conversation:

The Holy Spirit has led the leaders of the Baptist Church to believe that baptism is not necessary for salvation.

The Holy Spirit has led the leaders of the Catholic Church to believe that baptism is necessary for salvation.

Who is right? The Baptist or the Catholics?

 

[kerwin]

If you just answer the question, which is a actual scenario that is being played out today in the year 2016 and has been for 500 years, then we could end this conversation:

The Holy Spirit has led the leaders of the Baptist Church to believe that baptism is not necessary for salvation.

The Holy Spirit has led the leaders of the Catholic Church to believe that baptism is necessary for salvation.

Who is right? The Baptist or the Catholics?

Neither is all right, which reveals the neither is led by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus teaches us that we will know them by their fruit.

What is the difference between RCC and Baptists religions anyway. There is their difference about what the word "baptism" means and some rituals but other than that I know of nothing significant.

 

[tom55]

Neither is all right, which reveals the neither is led by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus teaches us that we will know them by their fruit.

What is the difference between RCC and Baptists religions anyway. There is their difference about what the word "baptism" means and some rituals but other than that I know of nothing significant.

Are you led by the Holy Spirit?

 

[kerwin]

Are you led by the Holy Spirit?

I neither confirm or deny as it is a claim many make but few actually bear the fruit.

I will say that I seek to follow Jesus Christ and he teaches us that by their fruit you will know them.

 

[tom55]

I neither confirm or deny as it is a claim many make but few actually bear the fruit.

I will say that I seek to follow Jesus Christ and he teaches us that by their fruit you will know them.

So how do you know if neither is led by the Holy Spirit? Who revealed this truth to you?

 

[kerwin]

tom55,

Both doctrines break Scripture as places but their adherents allow that to happen because they do not care, they trust in human beings, they suspend disbelief, or for some reason I either do not know or am not recalling.

I will not tell you who revealed the truth to me because it for you to judge.

 

[tom55]

tom55,

Both doctrines break Scripture as places but their adherents allow that to happen because they do not care, they trust in human beings, they suspend disbelief, or for some reason I either do not know or am not recalling.

I will not tell you who revealed the truth to me because it for you to judge.

If you KNOW that "both doctrines break Scripture" then you must also know what doctrine does not break Scripture?

If you KNOW that "Neither is all right, which reveals the neither is led by the Holy Spirit" then you must also know what the truth is about baptism and who is led by the Holy Spirit in this matter.

What has been revealed to you about the doctrine of baptism that does not break Scripture?

If you know the truth and the truth has been revealed to you I would think you would want to share it with your Christian brothers/sisters.

 

[kerwin]

If you KNOW that "both doctrines break Scripture" then you must also know what doctrine does not break Scripture?

If you KNOW that "Neither is all right, which reveals the neither is led by the Holy Spirit" then you must also know what the truth is about baptism and who is led by the Holy Spirit in this matter.

What has been revealed to you about the doctrine of baptism that does not break Scripture?

If you know the truth and the truth has been revealed to you I would think you would want to share it with your Christian brothers/sisters.

I cannot say I know the whole gospel but i do know some tenets and neither of those traditions teach that Jesus truly sets believer from of slavery to sin. Instead both replace the sacrificial ordinances of the covenant of Moses with Jesus and misrepresent the cleansing ability of the Holy Spirit. In short they tell people what their itching ears want to know. Some people are not satisfied with even that and seek other traditions that even take more from the gospel while other argue over words and other minor things but do not go to Jesus Christ though they claim to follow him.

 

[tom55]

I cannot say I know the whole gospel but i do know some tenets and neither of those traditions teach that Jesus truly sets believer from of slavery to sin. Instead both replace the sacrificial ordinances of the covenant of Moses with Jesus and misrepresent the cleansing ability of the Holy Spirit. In short they tell people what their itching ears want to know. Some people are not satisfied with even that and seek other traditions that even take more from the gospel while other argue over words and other minor things but do not go to Jesus Christ though they claim to follow him.

I will try one more time:
You indicated that you know that both the Catholic and Baptist doctrine on baptism break Scripture. (I assume when one breaks Scripture they are not following Scripture?)

This is a very simple question: If you know that they are breaking Scripture, then what have they done to break Scripture? If you know that neither of them have it right then you must know what is right???

Why are you refusing to tell me "who revealed the truth" to you?

If you have the truth, wouldn't you want to share it with all of us? I assume this truth was given to you by God via the Holy Spirit?

 

[kerwin]

I will try one more time:
You indicated that you know that both the Catholic and Baptist doctrine on baptism break Scripture. (I assume when one breaks Scripture they are not following Scripture?)

This is a very simple question: If you know that they are breaking Scripture, then what have they done to break Scripture? If you know that neither of them have it right then you must know what is right???

Why are you refusing to tell me "who revealed the truth" to you?

If you have the truth, wouldn't you want to share it with all of us? I assume this truth was given to you by God via the Holy Spirit?

I explained that to you.

It is a teaching from John 8 that just about every Christian tradition disagrees with. In verse 34 Jesus us that anyone that sins is a slave(servant) of sin and then he goes on in verse 36 to teach that the Son sets believer truly free. Both the RCC and Baptists doctrine fail to set believers free from serving sin as they still sin and thus are still servants (slaves) to sin. To justify their failure both teach that humans will sin all during their mortality but that disagrees with Jesus' teaching about believers.

 

[FHII]

I explained that to you.

It is a teaching from John 8 that just about every Christian tradition disagrees with. In verse 34 Jesus us that anyone that sins is a slave(servant) of sin and then he goes on in verse 36 to teach that the Son sets believer truly free. Both the RCC and Baptists doctrine fail to set believers free from serving sin as they still sin and thus are still servants (slaves) to sin. To justify their failure both teach that humans will sin all during their mortality but that disagrees with Jesus' teaching about believers.

Hey Kerwin! Are you understanding why I refused to play Tom55's game?

He tried to bait me into the rediculousness you are now experiencing!

 

[tom55]

I explained that to you.

It is a teaching from John 8 that just about every Christian tradition disagrees with. In verse 34 Jesus us that anyone that sins is a slave(servant) of sin and then he goes on in verse 36 to teach that the Son sets believer truly free. Both the RCC and Baptists doctrine fail to set believers free from serving sin as they still sin and thus are still servants (slaves) to sin. To justify their failure both teach that humans will sin all during their mortality but that disagrees with Jesus' teaching about believers.

So your theory is once you become a believer in Jesus you will no longer sin?

 

[kerwin]

So your theory is once you become a believer in Jesus you will no longer sin?

It is not a theory since it is inductive reasoning. Theories are the result of deductive reasoning.

If you believe the statement that anyone that sins is a servant (slave of sin) then it follows than anyone that sins is a servant(slave) of sin. Therefore if one is set free from sin then they no longer do it. The gospel must achieve before or Jesus did not tell the truth and thus could not be the Son of God.

From what I read there is maturing or a process of being made perfect that occurs over time. It can only be achieved by those that think it God can do it and will do it and also want it done.

That is why Jesus disciples asked him "who then be saved". His answer is informative.

 

[kerwin]

Hey Kerwin! Are you understanding why I refused to play Tom55's game?

He tried to bait me into the rediculousness you are now experiencing!

He has been taught to view Scripture as stories.

 

[H. Richard]

It is not a theory since it is inductive reasoning. Theories are the result of deductive reasoning.

If you believe the statement that anyone that sins is a servant (slave of sin) then it follows than anyone that sins is a servant(slave) of sin. Therefore if one is set free from sin then they no longer do it. The gospel must achieve before or Jesus did not tell the truth and thus could not be the Son of God.

From what I read there is maturing or a process of being made perfect that occurs over time. It can only be achieved by those that think it God can do it and will do it and also want it done.

That is why Jesus disciples asked him "who then be saved". His answer is informative.

***
I don't agree with progressive salvation, progressive sanctification, progressive justification. progressive anything.

We are not set free from doing sins in the flesh. We are set free from the condemnation of doing those sins.

Rom 7:23-8:1
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.


Rom 8:1-3 Free from Indwelling Sin
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
NKJV


Those in Christ have been set free from the condemnation of the law. Their sinful flesh still follows the law of sin.

 

[tom55]

It is not a theory since it is inductive reasoning. Theories are the result of deductive reasoning.

If you believe the statement that anyone that sins is a servant (slave of sin) then it follows than anyone that sins is a servant(slave) of sin. Therefore if one is set free from sin then they no longer do it. The gospel must achieve before or Jesus did not tell the truth and thus could not be the Son of God.

From what I read there is maturing or a process of being made perfect that occurs over time. It can only be achieved by those that think it God can do it and will do it and also want it done.

That is why Jesus disciples asked him "who then be saved". His answer is informative.

If one is set free from a single sin they can no longer sin? An interesting and dangerous theory that is not based on scripture.

Theory: an idea that is suggested or presented as possibly true but that is not known or proven to be true


Inductive reasoning: reasoning in which the premises are viewed as supplying strong evidence for the truth of the conclusion. While the conclusion of a deductive argument is certain, the truth of the conclusion of an inductive argument is probable, based upon the evidence given.

The evidence YOU gave supports YOUR theory. You did not give all the evidence and if you were to give all the evidence it would destroy your theory.

It would be like me saying that Peter was in fact satan and that I can prove it with scripture: But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."

Someone that does not know scripture would agree with my above statement based on those few words in Scripture. You have done the same thing. Taken a few words from scripture to support your theory and ignored the evidence that destroys your theory.

 

[tom55]

I explained that to you.

It is a teaching from John 8 that just about every Christian tradition disagrees with. In verse 34 Jesus us that anyone that sins is a slave(servant) of sin and then he goes on in verse 36 to teach that the Son sets believer truly free. Both the RCC and Baptists doctrine fail to set believers free from serving sin as they still sin and thus are still servants (slaves) to sin. To justify their failure both teach that humans will sin all during their mortality but that disagrees with Jesus' teaching about believers.

Every Christian tradition disagrees with you because Scripture disagrees with you. That should your first clue to you that you are wrong when "just about every Christian tradition disagrees" with you.

I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.

Another hole in your theory is what if I was raised a Christian from birth and have been a believer of Jesus since I could speak? Does that mean I can never sin since I have been a believer all my life?

I look forward to your response!

 

[tom55]

Hey Kerwin! Are you understanding why I refused to play Tom55's game?

He tried to bait me into the rediculousness you are now experiencing!

This coming from the person who could not articulate their own theory AND couldn't even quote me on what I allegedly said?

Hmmmm..... :wub: