The Blended Gospel

[tom55]

I have no idea what you are even taljing about, Tom. What words did I use that even remotely resemble your comparing martin luther to whatever it was.... Where did i talk about baptism? I actually agreed with you in sayin the Holy Spirit can come to a Catholic Priest. I just also noted thatthe HS isn't going to contradict the Bible.

Do you disagree?

Then I said i disagree with much of the Catholic teaching. Is news to you? And what does luther have to do with it?

THAT question I can answer: instead of defending your doctrine you attacked someone else's.

I ain't playing that game.

In regards to baptism: Who is contradicting the bible when both groups, being led by ministers, believe they are being led by the Holy Spirit to the truth of Scripture? Since the Holy Spirit is NOT going to contradict the Bible only one of them can be right. (the underlined words are your words)

Take your time. Do some research and get back with me when you can answer my very logical, factual and not a "what if" scenario without destroying your own fallacious belief.

 

[tom55]

In the case you mentioned neither was correct though each was partially correct.

The Roman Catholic Church error is that Scripture and their interpretation of it has become a top down moral code. In doing this they lost track of the message of how God writes his Law on the hearts and minds of believers.

Martin Luther saw corruption is the RCC attributed it to the later's teaching of salvation by works. His response was reject that teaching and come up with an alternative gospel of salvation by grace and faith. In doing so he also rejected the same message the RCC did.

In short neither party teaches the message will fulfill the promise that the those that deeply desire to be righteous will be filled with a righteousness that like God's. Many continue to make that same error today.

If "neither was correct but each partially correct" then based on scripture what is the correct answer or belief on this matter?

 

[FHII]

In regards to baptism: Who is contradicting the bible when both groups, being led by ministers, believe they are being led by the Holy Spirit to the truth of Scripture? Since the Holy Spirit is NOT going to contradict the Bible only one of them can be right. (the underlined words are your words)

Take your time. Do some research and get back with me when you can answer my very logical, factual and not a "what if" scenario without destroying your own fallacious belief.

That is still a what if scenerio Tom. Call it whatever you like but it doesn't change what it is. Furthermore, you took portions of my statement and used those fragments in your own what if scenerio. That doesn't make it my words. Pretty low....

Third, i could answer your question easily... But like i said Im not playing your games...

 

[tom55]

That is still a what if scenerio Tom. Call it whatever you like but it doesn't change what it is. Furthermore, you took portions of my statement and used those fragments in your own what if scenerio. That doesn't make it my words. Pretty low....

Third, i could answer your question easily... But like i said Im not playing your games...

Call it what you want but it is still a logical scenario and relevant question that you can't answer. Instead you attack me to take the spotlight off of you and your inability to logically answer it. Cleaver move!!

Someone is right about baptism and someone is wrong. It saves you or it doesn't. Both camps have used scripture to back up their belief.

Which camp is being guided by the Holy Spirit? Since the Holy Spirit is NOT going to contradict the Bible only one of them can be right.

Take your time. Do some research and get back with me when you can answer my very logical, factual and not a "what if" scenario without destroying your own fallacious belief.

 

[TopherNelson]

I sincerely hope you are being sarcastic.

If you are not being sarcastic I am concerned for you and your soul.

If you are being sarcastic your response is evidence that you can not logically back up what you believe.

I already logically, through scripture backed up what I believe. Since the Roman Catholic Church doesn't encourage the reading of scripture, you do not know what I am talking about.

I am sincerely concerned about your salvation.

 

[FHII]

Call it what you want but it is still a logical scenario and relevant question that you can't answer. Instead you attack me to take the spotlight off of you and your inability to logically answer it. Cleaver move!!

Someone is right about baptism and someone is wrong. It saves you or it doesn't. Both camps have used scripture to back up their belief.

Which camp is being guided by the Holy Spirit? Since the Holy Spirit is NOT going to contradict the Bible only one of them can be right.

Take your time. Do some research and get back with me when you can answer my very logical, factual and not a "what if" scenario without destroying your own fallacious belief.

Now i attacked you? Whatever...

 

[kerwin]

If "neither was correct but each partially correct" then based on scripture what is the correct answer or belief on this matter?

I am not a teacher. I know some of it but I cannot claim to know all. What I know is enough to test others but that is its limits.

If a gospel is true then its adherents are able to walk by the Spirit and it is how often they do that which testifies how mature they are in Christ.

Most have trouble believing that and so declare themselves to still be enslaved to sin. Jesus came to set from serving sin and those that do not teach us how are not true teachers.

 

[tom55]

Now i attacked you? Whatever...

Take your time. Do some research and get back with me when you can answer my very logical, factual and not a "what if" scenario without destroying your own fallacious belief.

 

[tom55]

I am not a teacher. I know some of it but I cannot claim to know all. What I know is enough to test others but that is its limits.

If a gospel is true then its adherents are able to walk by the Spirit and it is how often they do that which testifies how mature they are in Christ.

Most have trouble believing that and so declare themselves to still be enslaved to sin. Jesus came to set from serving sin and those that do not teach us how are not true teachers.

When you give someone a test you (the test giver) are supposed to know the correct answer to the test. How can you, Kerwin, "test others" if you don't know the answer?

How can you, Kerwin, know that the 'Roman Catholic Church is in error' and that "neither was correct though each was partially correct" if you don't have an answer?

 

[tom55]

I already logically, through scripture backed up what I believe. Since the Roman Catholic Church doesn't encourage the reading of scripture, you do not know what I am talking about.

I am sincerely concerned about your salvation.

No, you did not back up what you believe. Either you are delusional or you are a liar. Go back thru your previous post like I did.

You accuse me of not knowing what I am talking about and then you say something as ridiculous as "the Roman Catholic Church doesn't encourage the reading of scripture". It is clear in this conversation YOU don't know what you are talking about.

This thread is about the blended gospel. You have blended your personal gospel in with the true gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ....in my opinion.

 

[tom55]

Third, i could answer your question easily... But like i said Im not playing your games...

If it is so easy to answer, then answer it.

If it's not easy to answer then let me know and we can walk thru it together and maybe we can learn from each other.

 

[kerwin]

When you give someone a test you (the test giver) are supposed to know the correct answer to the test. How can you, Kerwin, "test others" if you don't know the answer?

How can you, Kerwin, know that the 'Roman Catholic Church is in error' and that "neither was correct though each was partially correct" if you don't have an answer?

I share what I know but my purpose is not to give the right answer but rather to set the "test taker" on the path to finding it themselves.

I am kind of hoping they find it so they can lead me to it but that is my lazy soulish side which is not Spiritual.

 

[FHII]

If it is so easy to answer, then answer it.

If it's not easy to answer then let me know and we can walk thru it together and maybe we can learn from each other.

Tom,

I stated that the Holy Spirit will not contradict what the Bible says. Therefore, if anyone who preaches something contradictory to the Bible, it isn't the Holy Spirit guiding them.

Its a pretty solid answer. Whatever what if scenerio you throw at me... The answer is still the same.

So why are you asking?

 

[kerwin]

When you give someone a test you (the test giver) are supposed to know the correct answer to the test. How can you, Kerwin, "test others" if you don't know the answer?

How can you, Kerwin, know that the 'Roman Catholic Church is in error' and that "neither was correct though each was partially correct" if you don't have an answer?

That is easy as I am confident of some of the message but not all of the message and most stumble on the simple but hard to accept tenets.

Are you willing to tell a Christian that is an active alcoholic that the will not enter the kingdom of heaven?

Galatians 5:19-21New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

19 [a]Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, 21 occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Footnotes:

5:19–23 Such lists of vices and virtues (cf. Rom 1:29–31; 1 Cor 6:9–10) were common in the ancient world. Paul contrasts works of the flesh (Gal 5:19) with fruit (not “works”) of the Spirit (Gal 5:22). Not law, but the Spirit, leads to such traits.
5:21 Occasions of envy: after the Greek word phthonoi, “envies,” some manuscripts add a similar sounding one, phonoi, “murders.”

I have heard the RCC did it in certain places but I do not believe they do it any more. One cannot go out every Saturday and get drunk then confess his sins to a priest and do again the next and expect to inherit the kingdom of heaven as the would be walking according to the flesh.

If one does not have the Spirit then one is a slave to sin which means that alcoholic is not truly free from sin even if he goes on the wagon. On the other hand if one has the Spirit then she can break the bonds while one is walking according to it. The Spirit is only received through the true gospel.

In short I know a true teacher will both preach the hard to accept truths as well as the student how to overcome the power of sin within himself .

 

[tom55]

Tom,

I stated that the Holy Spirit will not contradict what the Bible says. Therefore, if anyone who preaches something contradictory to the Bible, it isn't the Holy Spirit guiding them.

Its a pretty solid answer. Whatever what if scenerio you throw at me... The answer is still the same.

So why are you asking?

The Holy Spirit has led the leaders of the Baptist Church to believe that baptism is not necessary for salvation.

The Holy Spirit has led the leaders of the Catholic Church to believe that baptism is necessary for salvation.

Insert any doctrinal difference you want!! It all has the same ending. The Holy Spirit is confused according to your theory.

You did not provide a "solid answer". Basically what you are saying is that YOU will decide who is right and who is being guided by the Holy Spirit based on what YOU believe. That is you acting like the Holy Spirit in my opinion.

Since you obviously can not back up your non-scriptural theory with scripture or with logic I will end our conversation here.

 

[FHII]

The Holy Spirit has led the leaders of the Baptist Church to believe that baptism is not necessary for salvation.

The Holy Spirit has led the leaders of the Catholic Church to believe that baptism is necessary for salvation.

Insert any doctrinal difference you want!! It all has the same ending. The Holy Spirit is confused according to your theory.

You did not provide a "solid answer". Basically what you are saying is that YOU will decide who is right and who is being guided by the Holy Spirit based on what YOU believe. That is you acting like the Holy Spirit in my opinion.

Since you obviously can not back up your non-scriptural theory with scripture or with logic I will end our conversation here.

That's stupid Tom. Ok so the opposite of what I said is that the Holy Spirit CAN contradict the Bible. Is that what you are saying?

 

[tom55]

That's stupid Tom. Ok so the opposite of what I said is that the Holy Spirit CAN contradict the Bible. Is that what you are saying?

Insert any doctrinal difference you want!! It all has the same ending. The Holy Spirit is confused according to your theory

 

[FHII]

Insert any doctrinal difference you want!! It all has the same ending. The Holy Spirit is confused according to your theory

I say the Holy Spirit will not contradict scripture and you say that makes the Holy Spirit confused.

Yea.... Sure.

 

[tom55]

I say the Holy Spirit will not contradict scripture and you say that makes the Holy Spirit confused.

Yea.... Sure.

If I said that the Holy Spirit is confused then quote me by cutting and pasting it into your next response.

 

[FHII]

If I said that the Holy Spirit is confused then quote me by cutting and pasting it into your next response.

I already quoted you.