The 'blessed virgin Mary'

[robert derrick]

Hi thanks I agree at first ugh. I was also in the miltary drafted in 1966. To me it sounds better than just commanded. In the same way with the word fear. It would seem not to be a commandment of those who rather fear men as hierachy of men usrurping the fear of God having it after the approval of men called fathers .

Psalm 130:3-5 King James Version (KJV) If thou, Lord, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?
But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared. I wait for the Lord, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope.

The mercy of God not the Queen of heaven.

Ok then. You're solid. Maybe I will start to the use the word 'lovingly' too

After all, some folks are getting mighty worked up emotionally by me. It's just that emotion is not a natural part of my make up...I m definitely not a people person!

But I don't believe I am a troll.

 

[robert derrick]

Again?

You're the one who said goodbye, but keeps coming back for more.

Look, you are too emotional, and react that way when confronted with strong argument of Scripture.

Do as Paul said: quit the babe act and grow up (Heb 5). I.e. Get over yourself.

"You can call me father, you can call me a SOB, but if you ever call me 'daddy' again, I'll finish this fight!" (John Wayne: 'Big jake')

 

[robert derrick]

If Mary is still our Lord's Mother, than that would make her our GrandMother.

Of is that where the physical and spiritual don't quite chime?

 

[dev553344]

OK, I'll invest a little effort here: Mary not only met Jesus in person which none of us have, and not only was she family, but she cared for Jesus when he was a vulnerable child and honored God the Father as Jesus' mother. That makes her special in history, out of everyone God could have chose for that he chose Mary. He didn't choose us for such a great calling so I think we can show some respect where it is due.

 

[Heart2Soul]

If Mary is still our Lord's Mother, than that would make her our GrandMother.

Of is that where the physical and spiritual don't quite chime?

We are all descendants of Adam and Eve...
It was prophesied that Jesus would be of the Tribe of Judah and of the Royal lineage of David.

"It is common knowledge that the genealogies contained in Matthew and Luke differ. Most conservative Bible commentators explain the difference by holding that Jesus’ genealogy in Matthew 1:1–16 is traced through Joseph’s line to show Jesus’ royal right to the Davidic throne; correspondingly, the genealogy in Luke 3:23–38 traces Jesus’ ancestry through Mary’s line. This means that Mary’s lineage is recorded in the Gospel of Luke.

Mary’s lineage, as recorded by Luke, does not mention Mary, but that’s to be expected—including women’s names in genealogies was not standard practice. It begins this way: “[Jesus] was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli” (Luke 3:23). This comment affirms the truth of Jesus’ virgin birth (see Luke 1:29–38). Joseph was a “son” of Heli by virtue of his marriage to Mary, who would have been the daughter of Heli (Matthew 1:16 lists Joseph’s biological father as Jacob).

Some notable points in Mary’s lineage are that she was a descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Luke 3:34); she was specifically of the tribe of Judah (verse 33). She was also a descendant of Boaz (verse 32) and David (verse 31). Significantly, Luke traces Mary’s lineage all the way back to Adam (verse 38). This fits with Luke’s purpose as he wrote to Gentiles and emphasized that Jesus is the Son of God who came to save all people (cf. Luke 2:10–11)"

Genealogy was very important back then and is used to determine heirs rights to inheritance or position.

 

[Heart2Soul]

If Mary is still our Lord's Mother, than that would make her our GrandMother.

Of is that where the physical and spiritual don't quite chime?

No it doesn't, how absurd....you are over reaching in your reasoning....put off your carnal mind and seek the Truth through prayer, the Holy Spirit and the Word.

 

[robert derrick]

OK, I'll invest a little effort here: Mary not only met Jesus in person which none of us have, and not only was she family, but she cared for Jesus when he was a vulnerable child and honored God the Father as Jesus' mother. That makes her special in history, out of everyone God could have chose for that he chose Mary. He didn't choose us for such a great calling so I think we can show some respect where it is due.

You're little effort is big and sound.

Honoring her as a good example of faithful and loving motherhood, specially of the Jesus, is no doubt her blessedness in history of man. In this she surpasses even Deborah or Ruth in honor. She was chosen by God, because he saw she was a good example of faith, and she proved herself to be so on earth.

It was just your little "or in heaven above" that I say is falsely raising her to a position of honor in heaven, that she does not have above any other in heaven by faith of Jesus. In heaven, there is no more mother or sister or brother, only those who do the will of God by the faith of Jesus.

She is now in heaven just one among many many blessed virgins presented to Christ...No queen, no mother, nor anything above any other.

I am in fact more respectful of her, in that I do not try to elevate her to some made up mystical eternal status above any other saint in heaven. And for that, she is appreciative. You need to understand that Mary in the presence of the Lord Jesus in heaven, does not appreciate her glorification by false mystics on earth.

 

[robert derrick]

No it doesn't, how absurd....you are over reaching in your reasoning....put off your carnal mind and seek the Truth through prayer, the Holy Spirit and the Word.

"Sarcasm with accurate wit expose the absurdity of falsehood." (Anonymous)

I did pray and so considered the obvious and logical question. Since she is not now our grandMother, then she cannot now be our Lord's Mother.

Makes perfect sense to me. And believe me, I am being spiritual.

 

[dev553344]

You're little effort is big and sound.

Honoring her as a good example of faithful and loving motherhood, specially of the Jesus, is no doubt her blessedness in history of man. In this she surpasses even Deborah or Ruth in honor. She was chosen by God, because he saw she was a good example of faith, and she proved herself to be so on earth.

It was just your little "or in heaven above" that I say is falsely raising her to a position of honor in heaven, that she does not have above any other in heaven by faith of Jesus. In heaven, there is no more mother or sister or brother, only those who do the will of God by the faith of Jesus.

She is now in heaven just one among many many blessed virgins presented to Christ...No queen, no mother, nor anything above any other.

I am in fact more respectful of her, in that I do not try to elevate her to some made up mystical eternal status above any other saint in heaven. And for that, she is appreciative. You need to understand that Mary in the presence of the Lord Jesus in heaven, does not appreciate her glorification by false mystics on earth.

People have different degrees of glory in heaven, we're not all the same. Also there is some assumptions you made about heaven that family don't exist. The only thing the bible says is that we are not married in heaven, which is to say we don't have sexual relations up there, but become as angels serving God.

1 Corinthians 15:39-45

39Not all flesh is the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another, and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the splendor of the heavenly bodies is of one degree, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is of another. 41The sun has one degree of splendor, the moon another, and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. 42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead: What is sown is perishable; it is raised imperishable. 43It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being;”e the last Adam a life-giving spirit

 

[Heart2Soul]

Sarcasm with accurate wit expose the absurdity of falsehood." (Anonymous)

As the sarcasm you have been using?
You need some tears in that photo....hmmm.

 

[Heart2Soul]

"Sarcasm with accurate wit expose the absurdity of falsehood." (Anonymous)

I did pray and so considered the obvious and logical question. Since she is not now our grandMother, then she cannot now be our Lord's Mother.

Makes perfect sense to me. And believe me, I am being spiritual.

She is recorded in history and in scripture to be His mother....Jesus had to be born of flesh in order to be the atonement for sin...the blood sacrifice....without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin...
She is the mother of Jesus as it relates to His flesh, The Holy Spirit in regards to the seed of God...
To say otherwise is heresy and blasphemy as it takes away from the prophesy that He would come to earth born of a virgin.
That which is flesh relates to flesh...that which is Spirit related to Spirit.

 

[Grailhunter]

We are all descendants of Adam and Eve...
It was prophesied that Jesus would be of the Tribe of Judah and of the Royal lineage of David.

"It is common knowledge that the genealogies contained in Matthew and Luke differ. Most conservative Bible commentators explain the difference by holding that Jesus’ genealogy in Matthew 1:1–16 is traced through Joseph’s line to show Jesus’ royal right to the Davidic throne; correspondingly, the genealogy in Luke 3:23–38 traces Jesus’ ancestry through Mary’s line. This means that Mary’s lineage is recorded in the Gospel of Luke.

Mary’s lineage, as recorded by Luke, does not mention Mary, but that’s to be expected—including women’s names in genealogies was not standard practice. It begins this way: “[Jesus] was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli” (Luke 3:23). This comment affirms the truth of Jesus’ virgin birth (see Luke 1:29–38). Joseph was a “son” of Heli by virtue of his marriage to Mary, who would have been the daughter of Heli (Matthew 1:16 lists Joseph’s biological father as Jacob).

Some notable points in Mary’s lineage are that she was a descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Luke 3:34); she was specifically of the tribe of Judah (verse 33). She was also a descendant of Boaz (verse 32) and David (verse 31). Significantly, Luke traces Mary’s lineage all the way back to Adam (verse 38). This fits with Luke’s purpose as he wrote to Gentiles and emphasized that Jesus is the Son of God who came to save all people (cf. Luke 2:10–11)"

Genealogy was very important back then and is used to determine heirs rights to inheritance or position.

Logical deductions...thanks
Since Christ's lineage had to be to David.......and Joseph was not His biological father....His lineage had to be through His mother.

 

[robert derrick]

She is recorded in history and in scripture to be His mother....Jesus had to be born of flesh in order to be the atonement for sin...the blood sacrifice....without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin...
She is the mother of Jesus as it relates to His flesh, The Holy Spirit in regards to the seed of God...
To say otherwise is heresy and blasphemy as it takes away from the prophesy that He would come to earth born of a virgin.
That which is flesh relates to flesh...that which is Spirit related to Spirit.

She was and will ever be remembered as the mother of the Christ in the flesh on earth.

No problem.

In heaven, not so. Problem there.

 

[Heart2Soul]

She was and will ever be remembered as the mother of the Christ in the flesh on earth.

No problem.

In heaven, not so. Problem there.

There won't be any marriages, nor male or female, nor jews or gentiles...
We will be spiritual.

 

[Josho]

Happy Mother's day to Mary mother of Jesus, and to every other mother out there that has celebrated it today or yesterday.

 

[robert derrick]

People have different degrees of glory in heaven, we're not all the same. Also there is some assumptions you made about heaven that family don't exist. The only thing the bible says is that we are not married in heaven, which is to say we don't have sexual relations up there, but become as angels serving God.

1 Corinthians 15:39-45

39Not all flesh is the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another, and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the splendor of the heavenly bodies is of one degree, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is of another. 41The sun has one degree of splendor, the moon another, and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. 42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead: What is sown is perishable; it is raised imperishable. 43It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being;”e the last Adam a life-giving spirit

Ok, you introduce something here I had not considered before.

There are rewards given for ministry and witness. True. Mary would be one receiving some such. I do not recall anything immediately where there is any distinction in heaven for glorified saints above or below another. There are the 144,000, and the 12 apostles written on the foundation stones of the city, and the 12 elders sitting round the throne of God.

Since there is neither male nor female in Christ on earth, then neither will there be in heaven.

It is a fact that there is neither brother nor sister nor mother as pertaining to Jesus, certainly not now, and declared by Himself as such on earth. (Matthew 12) And so in this regard all saints in heaven will be His mother, sister, and brother.

So, Mary is not now nor will ever be specially honored nor exalted as mother in heaven. That is clearly mystical idolatry.

And so far as remembering her as such on earth? I suppose. I don't believe there is memory-wipe in heaven as some propose. In fact, in heaven our memories with our knowledge will be perfected. (1 Cor 13)

But, this differing glory of one star to another. I will need to take a look at that. I don't have an answer as it pertains to Mary...or Stephen...or Samuel...or Apollos...or Gideon...or Deborah... or Ruth... or Rahab... (Actually, when you think about it, and compare it to this company, just giving birth and travelling around, and raising up a boy to be a believer in God, really, mayhaps, isn't such a big deal. I mean, you are supposed to do that, right?)

"We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do." (Luke 17)

Yes, Mary believed the messenger of the Lord. Good. But so did Elizabeth. And besides, the real hero here is Joseph, who did not put her away privily for unmarried pregnancy.

But still, I wonder of the glory of one star or another pertains to the glorified saints...

 

[robert derrick]

Happy Mother's day to Mary mother of Jesus, and to every other mother out there that has celebrated it today or yesterday.

Amen! I actually talked to my mother today. By mistake. Butt-call. But we will be taking her to dinner friday!

 

[Grailhunter]

She was and will ever be remembered as the mother of the Christ in the flesh on earth.

No problem.

In heaven, not so. Problem there.

Justified...if you are a Protestant Fundamentalist....the divine events concerning God and humanity after the biblical era is not something that you need to be concerned with. For a Fundamentalist to consider the next 2000 years of a very active God would violate the concept of Fundamentalism. I am not going to hold that against you, that is part of the Fundamentalist concept. But really should you be commenting on something that is against your religion. That is if you are a fundamentalist. There are people that are cessationists that do not believe in the miracles and divine events after the biblical era. Since I believe in freedom of religion I stand and worship with such.

But it is one of many reasons I am not a Fundamentalist. I know the history of Miriam and I have seen her and talked with her. I have seen her miracles. My son and I have been witnesses to the miracles of the Holy Spirit. An an Angel appeared to me to warn me that my mother was dying over 200 miles away.

Faith without any interaction with God is a strength in its own. I am sorry. I cannot convey the difference that miracles have made in my life.

 

[dev553344]

Ok, you introduce something here I had not considered before.

There are rewards given for ministry and witness. True. Mary would be one receiving some such. I do not recall anything immediately where there is any distinction in heaven for glorified saints above or below another. There are the 144,000, and the 12 apostles written on the foundation stones of the city, and the 12 elders sitting round the throne of God.

Since there is neither male nor female in Christ on earth, then neither will there be in heaven.

It is a fact that there is neither brother nor sister nor mother as pertaining to Jesus, certainly not now, and declared by Himself as such on earth. (Matthew 12) And so in this regard all saints in heaven will be His mother, sister, and brother.

So, Mary is not now nor will ever be specially honored nor exalted as mother in heaven. That is clearly mystical idolatry.

And so far as remembering her as such on earth? I suppose. I don't believe there is memory-wipe in heaven as some propose. In fact, in heaven our memories with our knowledge will be perfected. (1 Cor 13)

But, this differing glory of one star to another. I will need to take a look at that. I don't have an answer as it pertains to Mary...or Stephen...or Samuel...or Apollos...or Gideon...or Deborah... or Ruth... or Rahab... (Actually, when you think about it, and compare it to this company, just giving birth and travelling around, and raising up a boy to be a believer in God, really, mayhaps, isn't such a big deal. I mean, you are supposed to do that, right?)

"We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do." (Luke 17)

Yes, Mary believed the messenger of the Lord. Good. But so did Elizabeth. And besides, the real hero here is Joseph, who did not put her away privily for unmarried pregnancy.

But still, I wonder of the glory of one star or another pertains to the glorified saints...

The different members here will have different interpretations of scripture. I don't agree with your assessment of Mary. And for the resurrection there is also the good and evil glories beyond the glory of the stars, sun and moon. but maybe this is part of that differing glories:

John 5:22 "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

 

[Taodeching]

She was and will ever be remembered as the mother of the Christ in the flesh on earth.

I see so to you Christ was not always God