The 'blessed virgin Mary'

[robert derrick]

Then the one true church founded by Christ has always taught this lie

only fundamentalist heretics reject the Virgin birth!

ordinary Protestant heretics accepted and taught it

Luther even days it is an article of faith necessary for salvation!!

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).

I don't believe you are purposely trying to be ignorant here:
only fundamentalist heretics reject the Virgin birth!

Only unbelievers reject the virgin birth, and only fanatical worshippers of the 'Blessed Virgin Mary' would think any Christians don't believe it.

Joseph did not know Mary, until after she gave birth to Jesus.

Simple Scripture of truth that ends the debate. You can acknowledge the truth of Scripture, or you can reject it to believe a lie.

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin.

An article of heretical rubbish, that rejects the Scripture:

Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son.

Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact.

No problem. Could well have been the easiest birth of a women in all history.

But not the next ones, after Joseph knew Mary and they had their own children together according to the Scriptures.

He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . .

True is the firstborn of many firstborns after the Spirit, as was Isaac by promise. (Rom 8:29)(Heb 12:23)

What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us.

But Scripture does: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son.

God was not promising Joseph a lifetime of eunuch living with a so-called wife.

For Mary to have refused the marriage bed to become one flesh, would have been defrauding her husband:

The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. (1 Cor 7:4-5)

as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’

Wesley was just as wrong. So was all his so-called 'holiness living' junk that he added to the doctrine of Christ.

You reject the simple truth of Scripture, which you won't even acknowledge as being written, that you may believe a lie.

You are in strong delusion:

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

 

[robert derrick]

When someone has to go around the whole world in order to come up with pseudo cultural history and language study, in order to reject simple Scripture, you know they will ever learn and never acknowledge the truth.

the church always taught that the immaculate sinless mother of God is ever Virgin.

There is a religion that calls itself a church, but it is not the church of Jesus Christ, who holds only to the Head of the body, Jesus, and not to a pagan 'Mother of God'.

The Jerusalem that is above is the mother of us all.

Babylon the great is the mother of all harlots.

And it is a real mystery to wonder at, that those claiming Jesus as Lord would rather worship the mother of whores. And then to call her Mary.

The Mary in the presence of the Lord Jesus, who was a faithful and good wife to Joseph, bearing him children in the admonition of the Scriptures, as well as becoming a faithful believer in Jesus Christ, is not pleased by it.

I wondered with great admiration. And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

The only thing the mother of 'God' is mother of, is the beast of a religion that props her up for worship.

 

[robert derrick]

In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it.

I.e. she remained a virgin by faith of the promise given her, but did not impose virginity upon herself after giving birth to Jesus.

Those who impose virginity are as those who forbid marriage: doctrines of devils.

A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual.

Good, until the lie tagged on at the end.

Heretics called Antidicomarites

Well then, just call me an heretical Antidicoma whatever...

An heretic to one religion is a saint to Jesus Christ.

For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection.

What is derogatory to Jesus is anti-antidicomarites, that claim any knowledge of Jesus according to the Scriptures, while substituting instead pseudo cultural studies of man.

this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother.

Mystery Babylon the great mother of all harlots has no dignity, much less holiness.

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of all lies!

 

[robert derrick]

I don't care if Kermit the Frog himself thinks Mary was a "perpetual" virgin... none of this can be proven... it's all summation... and another snare of the Catholic Church.
There is absolutely no reason.. or basis to assume that Mary would not simply RESUME and consumate her marriage to Joseph after Jesus was born.

The Catholic church has given herself false authority.... and made false claims... false sacraments... false promises and it's all heresy to the most severe degree.

My little thoughts for a Sunday.... and NO... I'm not bored. @theefaith

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

One of them must be named Kermit.

 

[robert derrick]

Untrue.
You just make up false "Catholics claim x, y and z" just so you can ridicule them.
It's called creating a straw man argument. You create whole armies of them.
It's a despicable tactic.

Hey, don't blame me. I'm just repeating what one of your own told me:

"How can this be, since I do not know a man? And I don't ever plan to know a man..."The Protoevangelium of James, She was to marry the older Joseph, a widower, who was to be her protector.

So, Joseph was not some old widower geezer, who wasn't any good for the bed anymore, but still wanted to have a good looking young babe around the house for the price of support?

 

[theefaith]

I don't care if Kermit the Frog himself thinks Mary was a "perpetual" virgin... none of this can be proven... it's all summation... and another snare of the Catholic Church.
There is absolutely no reason.. or basis to assume that Mary would not simply RESUME and consumate her marriage to Joseph after Jesus was born.

The Catholic church has given herself false authority.... and made false claims... false sacraments... false promises and it's all heresy to the most severe degree.

My little thoughts for a Sunday.... and NO... I'm not bored. @theefaith

and these guys?

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).

Kermit the frog
Whinnie the Pooh
And
John the Baptist

all have the same middle name!

 

[theefaith]

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (only Jesus is savior)


ez 44 is a biblical principle

 

[Addy]

@theefaith NO one knows what Mary and Joseph did or did not do in their marriage bed.... THAT is the point....
It doesn't matter what people surmise to make a certain case for something.... It's all summation... given the gold
stamp by certain people who have absolutely NO concrete proof. I'm all for freedom of religion.. and I have made no
bones about the fact that I HATE Catholicism... but this goes beyond reasonable.

Anyways... I still like you... and you are growing on me daily... so let's leave it at that.... so I can continue to ask you if you are BORED....

 

[Addy]

Kermit the frog
Whinnie the Pooh
And
John the Baptist

all have the same middle name!

and I missed that part... in my haste to answer you.... HAHAHA.... I love it when your humour shines through....

 

[farouk]

@theefaith NO one knows what Mary and Joseph did or did not do in their marriage bed.... THAT is the point....
It doesn't matter what people surmise to make a certain case for something.... It's all summation... given the gold
stamp by certain people who have absolutely NO concrete proof. I'm all for freedom of religion.. and I have made no
bones about the fact that I HATE Catholicism... but this goes beyond reasonable.

Anyways... I still like you... and you are growing on me daily... so let's leave it at that.... so I can continue to ask you if you are BORED....

@Addy Matthew 1 indicates that the Lord Jesus was Mary's firstborn Son (i.e., there were others...)

 

[theefaith]

I don't believe you are purposely trying to be ignorant here:
only fundamentalist heretics reject the Virgin birth!

Only unbelievers reject the virgin birth, and only fanatical worshippers of the 'Blessed Virgin Mary' would think any Christians don't believe it.

Joseph did not know Mary, until after she gave birth to Jesus.

Simple Scripture of truth that ends the debate. You can acknowledge the truth of Scripture, or you can reject it to believe a lie.

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin.

An article of heretical rubbish, that rejects the Scripture:

Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son.

Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact.

No problem. Could well have been the easiest birth of a women in all history.

But not the next ones, after Joseph knew Mary and they had their own children together according to the Scriptures.

He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . .

True is the firstborn of many firstborns after the Spirit, as was Isaac by promise. (Rom 8:29)(Heb 12:23)

What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us.

But Scripture does: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son.

God was not promising Joseph a lifetime of eunuch living with a so-called wife.

For Mary to have refused the marriage bed to become one flesh, would have been defrauding her husband:

The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. (1 Cor 7:4-5)

as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’

Wesley was just as wrong. So was all his so-called 'holiness living' junk that he added to the doctrine of Christ.

You reject the simple truth of Scripture, which you won't even acknowledge as being written, that you may believe a lie.

You are in strong delusion:

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

so you not only reject scripture and the perpetual virginity of the immaculate mother of God you also reject the Virgin birth??? Isa 7:14

a Virgin before conception
A Virgin after conception
A Virgin giving birth
A Virgin forever!

lk 1:34 trumps all
Scripture say he knew her NOT
It never says he knew her or that anyone is biological child of Mary accept Jesus

 

[Addy]

@Addy Matthew 1 indicates that the Lord Jesus was Mary's firstborn Son (i.e., there were others...)

It's one thing to have rules within a religion... but this issue is way beyond comprehension... When people start calling myth... FACT... I have an issue...

 

[theefaith]

@theefaith NO one knows what Mary and Joseph did or did not do in their marriage bed.... THAT is the point....
It doesn't matter what people surmise to make a certain case for something.... It's all summation... given the gold
stamp by certain people who have absolutely NO concrete proof. I'm all for freedom of religion.. and I have made no
bones about the fact that I HATE Catholicism... but this goes beyond reasonable.

Anyways... I still like you... and you are growing on me daily... so let's leave it at that.... so I can continue to ask you if you are BORED....

you still have the problem of the teaching authority of the apostles and their successors Matt 16:18 28:18 Jn 20:21-23
And they have always taught mary is mother of God
Perpetual Virgin
Immaculate sinless
Etc.

 

[theefaith]

and I missed that part... in my haste to answer you.... HAHAHA.... I love it when your humour shines through....

Lol!

 

[Heart2Soul]

For anyone who has wisdom....the story of Joseph and Mary...

There are three passages of Scripture that pertain specifically to the time of Joseph and Mary’s betrothal, the consummation of their marriage, and the birth of Jesus: Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-56; Luke 2:1-7. Each passage reveals something about their relationship as well as the cultural mores of that time.

In Bible times, Jewish marriage customs regarding a couple’s engagement were far different and much more stringent than those we are familiar with today, especially in the West. Marriages were arranged by the parents of the bride and groom and often without even consulting the couple to be married. A contract was prepared in which the groom’s parents paid a bride price. Such a contract was immediately deemed binding, with the couple considered married even though the actual ceremony and consummation of the marriage would not occur for as long as a year afterwards. The time between was a sort of testing of fidelity with the couple having little, if any, contact with each other.

It was during this betrothal period that the angel Gabriel visited Mary and told her of her impending pregnancy. It’s no small wonder that Mary was so inquisitive of the angel; she was still a virgin and would know no man sexually for several months, maybe as long as a year or more (Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:34).

Joseph soon became aware of Mary’s pregnancy, and this no doubt was cause for consternation on his part: “Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly” (Matthew 1:19). Jewish custom allowed that they be considered as husband and wife, though the marriage had not yet been consummated. The point is being made that Joseph and Mary had experienced no sexual contact with each other, as verse 18 “before they came together” points out. So, Joseph was in a quandary. Jewish law provided that his betrothed, because of her unfaithfulness, could be placed before the elders for judgment and stoned to death. But he was thinking to just put her away quietly without public knowledge. Betrothals or marriage engagements in those ancient times were binding and could only be terminated by an official divorce decree.

It was then that the angel appeared to Joseph in a dream (Matthew 1:20-25) and explained to him that all this was bringing about the fulfillment of prophecy that a virgin would bear a child who was to be the Savior (Isaiah 7:14), and “he [Joseph] did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.”

Luke 2:1-7 also confirms the idea that Joseph and Mary, though betrothed, were considered as husband and wife by Jewish customs even though the actual marriage ceremony had not been fully effectuated. So, Joseph and Mary were actually legally married before the birth of Jesus though their marriage was not consummated physically until after His birth.

 

[Mungo]

Hey, don't blame me. I'm just repeating what one of your own told me:

"How can this be, since I do not know a man? And I don't ever plan to know a man..."The Protoevangelium of James, She was to marry the older Joseph, a widower, who was to be her protector.

So, Joseph was not some old widower geezer, who wasn't any good for the bed anymore, but still wanted to have a good looking young babe around the house for the price of support?

That is disgusting mockery.
Repent and God will forgive you.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Definition of consummation:
con·sum·mate
verb
/ˈkänsəˌmāt/

1. make (a marriage or relationship) complete by having sexual intercourse.
   "they did not consummate their marriage until months after it took place"

 

[Heart2Soul]

Joseph met with Mary and discovered she was pregnant and was going to divorce her...but Gabriel appeared to him and explained the situation.

 

[farouk]

Definition of consummation:
con·sum·mate
verb
/ˈkänsəˌmāt/

1. make (a marriage or relationship) complete by having sexual intercourse.
   "they did not consummate their marriage until months after it took place"

@Heart2Soul Yes, I do indeed believe this is what happened between Joseph and Mary, after the Lord Jesus was born; this is the standard interpretation among Bible believing Christians.

 

[Nancy]

That is disgusting mockery.
Repent and God will forgive you.

Agreed, and where does The Word say anything about Mary saying " And I don't ever plan to know a man..." @robert derrick ?

My bible say's that "He (Joseph) knew her not TILL she gave birth to our savior" Pretty crystal clear.