The 'blessed virgin Mary'

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Heart2Soul

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I did not say or imply I desire a private conversation, rather explained what I was speaking about, since you replied to me about something unrelated.
My response is very relevant as it was intended to draw attention that Jesus is above all....Lord of Lords and King of Kings...He is the first AND the last, the beginning and end....there is none before Him and none after Him....there is none greater except for the Father.
 

Heart2Soul

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Tell that to Curtis, not me. He is the one whose interpretation of Mt. 11:11 means that John the Baptist is greater than Jesus.
:rolleyes: are you able to see that my post backs you up and gives support to yours?
 

Heart2Soul

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All the more reason to tell Curtis, not me, because I am not the one disputing the supremacy of Jesus.
Nevermind, we do not single out, gang up on and attack a particular member. Address the topic without attacking the member. This is called harassing and trolling.
I liked your comment, I responded to the topic of it and you have repeatedly tried to correct me for doing so.
I will refrain from responding to your posts in the future since it seems to bother you so much.
Have a blessed night.
 

Curtis

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Acording to your interpretation of Mt. 11:11, John the Baptist was greater than Mary of Joseph, but that includes Jesus as well because He was born of a woman. You say, "I personally doubt it includes Jesus...," without giving a reason, to avoid committing to a heretical belief. You are dishonest, cowardly, and applying a double standard.
You can call Jesus a heretic if you want, but I wouldn’t recommend it.
 
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Heart2Soul

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Prove me wrong - find one time in the entire New Testament where Mary is called the mother of God.
Hi Curtis there isn't scripture identifying Mary as the mother of God the Father...scripture does identify her as the mother of Jesus...also known as God the Son....
I was wanting to study with you more about Matthew 11:10-11. If you are willing
Matthew 11 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁰ For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
¹¹ Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding (in spite of, nevertheless, although) he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Who is Jesus referring to above calling them the least in the kingdom?
And why does Jesus say they are greater than John the Baptist?
 

robert derrick

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Prove me wrong - find one time in the entire New Testament where Mary is called the mother of God.
Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Joseph knew Mary as husband does a wife, after Jesus was born.

End of story.

It is amazing how God will always have a single plain Scripture to prove the truth once and for all.

And in this case, one little word does it: till

That's why all the jots and tittles matter so much, because we never know when we will need one.
 

theefaith

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Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Joseph knew Mary as husband does a wife, after Jesus was born.

End of story.

It is amazing how God will always have a single plain Scripture to prove the truth once and for all.

And in this case, one little word does it: till

That's why all the jots and tittles matter so much, because we never know when we will need one.


LUKE 1:43 !!!

no the Bible never says Mary and Joseph had sex, it says they did not have sex
And Lk 1:34 says they CANNOT have sex
Isa 7:14 one son singular

Same as Matt 1:21 one son singular

where are these children when they go up to the temple when Christ is 12? Or at the cross?
 

Stumpmaster

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LUKE 1:43 !!!

no the Bible never says Mary and Joseph had sex, it says they did not have sex
And Lk 1:34 says they CANNOT have sex
Isa 7:14 one son singular

Same as Matt 1:21 one son singular

where are these children when they go up to the temple when Christ is 12? Or at the cross?
For prayerful consideration:
Matthew 13:55,
Mark 6:3,
1 Corinthians 9:5,
Galatians 1:19,
 

robert derrick

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LUKE 1:43 !!!

no the Bible never says Mary and Joseph had sex, it says they did not have sex
And Lk 1:34 says they CANNOT have sex
Isa 7:14 one son singular

Same as Matt 1:21 one son singular

where are these children when they go up to the temple when Christ is 12? Or at the cross?
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

And knew her not, till she had brought forth her firstborn son

And so Joseph knew not his wife Mary until...

There is always a single irrefutable Scripture, that when confronted with, someone will either change their false doctrine and acknowledge the truth, or they will blind themselves selves for the sake of a lie.

That is how God sends a strong delusion to the unbeliever. (2 Tim 2:11)

You are now in a strong delusion.

Isa 7:14 one son singular

1 son as a virgin. Duh.

Strong delusion causes loss of basic intelligence.

And Lk 1:34 says they CANNOT have sex

Does not say she could not have sex. Says she knew not a man as a virgin, until had the 1 son as a virgin. Duh. Again.

Strong delusion forces lying about Scripture elsewhere.

Same as Matt 1:21 one son singular

See first duh.

You are believing a cult lie. Repent and be rid of your strong delusion and recover some basic intelligence. Or not. Doesn't matter to me. It's your mind and soul to do with what you will.
 

Addy

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What I want to know is WHO the heck was guarding the activities in Mary's bedroom???

That she remained a virgin until Jesus was born... is not only biblical... it HAD to be this way. Joseph and Mary both were in full knowledge that her conception was of and from God.

The summation that she remained a virgin all through out her life is simply bad theology... which the Catholic church is full of... Just saying...
 
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robert derrick

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What I want to know is WHO the heck was guarding the activities in Mary's bedroom???

That she remained a virgin until Jesus was born... is not only biblical... it HAD to be this way. Joseph and Mary both were in full knowledge that her conception was of and from God.

The summation that she remained a virgin all through out her life is simply bad theology... which the Catholic church is full of... Just saying...
They make up one lie to believe another, and then must continue to lie elsewhere.

They say Joseph was actually an old widower geezer with kids of his own, before meeting Mary and deciding to keep her a virgin for the rest of her life. And Mary didn't want an actual marriage in life, but just financial support, while letting others think Joseph was getting good late-life sex from a good looking babe a third his age.

It's fairy tales resulting in strong delusion. Such cultish ideologies must remove themselves from reality in order to maintain themselves.

If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
 

Mungo

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They make up one lie to believe another, and then must continue to lie elsewhere.

They say Joseph was actually an old widower geezer with kids of his own, before meeting Mary and deciding to keep her a virgin for the rest of her life. And Mary didn't want an actual marriage in life, but just financial support, while letting others think Joseph was getting good late-life sex from a good looking babe a third his age.

It's fairy tales resulting in strong delusion. Such cultish ideologies must remove themselves from reality in order to maintain themselves.

If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

Untrue.
You just make up false "Catholics claim x, y and z" just so you can ridicule them.
It's called creating a straw man argument. You create whole armies of them.
It's a despicable tactic.
 

Addy

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@Mungo... Don't pick on me for my comment... LOL
I'm having a bad day... so just ignore what I said.
 

theefaith

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For prayerful consideration:
Matthew 13:55,
Mark 6:3,
1 Corinthians 9:5,
Galatians 1:19,

You did not answer?

matt 13:55 & Mk 6:3 & 1 cor 9:5 & gal 1:19


are not the children of mary
Cousins or children of Joseph from a prior marriage, brothers does not mean the same mother, the 12 sons of Jacob had four different mothers but were all brothers

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.

The "sisters" of Jesus refer to women disciples

Salome, or Mary Salome, was the wife of Zebedee, and mother of apostles John (the beloved), and James (the greater).


Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.

When Jesus was twelve they went up to Jerusalem, the holy family, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. Where are the brothers and sisters?

Jesus on the cross gives His mother to John, why? Why not James or a brother? Perhaps the law of Moses requires a mother to be given to the next oldest son? Because he was an only Son!
Only begotten of the Father, only begotten of the Mother.

Only God can be born of a Virgin-mother!

“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).


LUKE 1:34 no sex period no end date either

the church always taught that the immaculate sinless mother of God is ever Virgin
 

theefaith

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And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

And knew her not, till she had brought forth her firstborn son

And so Joseph knew not his wife Mary until...

There is always a single irrefutable Scripture, that when confronted with, someone will either change their false doctrine and acknowledge the truth, or they will blind themselves selves for the sake of a lie.

That is how God sends a strong delusion to the unbeliever. (2 Tim 2:11)

You are now in a strong delusion.

Isa 7:14 one son singular

1 son as a virgin. Duh.

Strong delusion causes loss of basic intelligence.

And Lk 1:34 says they CANNOT have sex

Does not say she could not have sex. Says she knew not a man as a virgin, until had the 1 son as a virgin. Duh. Again.

Strong delusion forces lying about Scripture elsewhere.

Same as Matt 1:21 one son singular

See first duh.

You are believing a cult lie. Repent and be rid of your strong delusion and recover some basic intelligence. Or not. Doesn't matter to me. It's your mind and soul to do with what you will.


Then the one true church founded by Christ has always taught this lie

only fundamentalist heretics reject the Virgin birth!

ordinary Protestant heretics accepted and taught it

Luther even days it is an article of faith necessary for salvation!!

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).
 

theefaith

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St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.

For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
 

Addy

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I don't care if Kermit the Frog himself thinks Mary was a "perpetual" virgin... none of this can be proven... it's all summation... and another snare of the Catholic Church.
There is absolutely no reason.. or basis to assume that Mary would not simply RESUME and consumate her marriage to Joseph after Jesus was born.

The Catholic church has given herself false authority.... and made false claims... false sacraments... false promises and it's all heresy to the most severe degree.

My little thoughts for a Sunday.... and NO... I'm not bored. @theefaith