I didn't. I gave ellipses. I was addressing the first part first. Why did you ignore my entire post altogether and the evidences I provided?
The 'blessed virgin Mary'
- Thread starter robert derrick
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The text nowhere says that, at all. You made it up. "Hail" is just a glad "salutation", a happy greeting, see Act_15:23, Act_23:26, Jas_1:1, Mat_26:49, Mat_27:29, Mat_28:9, Mar_15:18, Luk_1:28, Joh_19:3, etc.
Jesus said John the Baptist was greater than Mary - unless of course Mary wasn’t born from her mother:
Mat 11:11 Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
So we know two facts: Jesus has many mothers, not just Mary.
And that John the Baptist was greater than Mary.
But I won’t pray to John, either.
I know another 'hail' that the Bishops, Cardinals and even Pope of Rome would say, "Heil Hitler".
Catholicism Heil Hitler at DuckDuckGo
Catholic Church and Nazi Ustashe Rally in Austria
See also One Evil (Archived):
25 Most Evil People of the 20th Century CE | Adolf Hitler
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Oh ya! She is nothing special. I imagine that there are hundreds of women over the years that have delivered and nursed a God.
The mother of the messiah....that saved the world....Nothing special....a lot of women in the Bible are more important. I would guess she is nothing special to Christ either....died like the rest of us and on judgement day she will stand with the rest of us and be judged to heaven or hell....What'ha think?
If that’s what it means, fine. Jesus also said that the Father was greater than He was, in His role of a humble servant.
Either way, whether it does or doesn’t include Jesus , it unequivocally means John was greater than Mary.
Mary birthed Jesus, the man, not God.
To be born as a human Jesus first emptied Himself. That’s why the Bible never once refers to Mary as anything other than THE MOTHER OF JESUS. and never the mother of God.
God has no mommy - but Jesus’ body did.
Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
The part about whether it also applies to Jesus IS IRRELEVANT to the fact that IT DOES APPLY FOR SURE TO MARY.
Your effort to sidetrack the meaning of the passage and it’s definite application to Mary and every other person on earth, with the possible exception of Jesus, is duly noted, and rejected.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
There are probably some here that believe Christ is a God....that is except the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
There are probably a couple dozen of these scriptures....not that it matters to you...and if you are denying the deity of Christ you and I are not in the same religion so there is no reason to debate two different religions.
Jesus’ own words are heresy? Take it up with Him.
Words have meaning, and He said those words, not me.
Personally I doubt it includes Jesus BUT IT DOES INCLUDE MARY and your continued effort to sidetrack that fact, remains duly noted, and is still rejected.
Shalom
Jesus is God by nature, but His Godhood was not created in her womb - his mortal body was.and scripture still says He laid aside the glory and power of God to be born a man and humble servant, and He did all His miracles after, and by, receiving the Holy Spirit Acts 10:38.
God still has no mommy - but the son of man does - which is how Jesus most often referred to Himself as.
Calling her the mother of God is used to put her on an idolatrous pedestal.
Do not go beyond what is written, says scripture- and scripture calls Mary the mother of Jesus.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
wow this post reminds me of a old t.v show i watched as a kid LOST IN SPACE your theology lost me its way out in space
Jesus said in Revelation....
I am He who was, who is, and who is to come.
“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.”
— Revelation 1:8 (KJV)
“And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.”
— Revelation 21:6 (KJV)
Revelation 1 (KJV)
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⁴ John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
…
⁸ I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Jesus was here at the beginning.....before Mary was born.
Now you naturally assume He was present in Spirit....
But God in His wisdom, knowledge and understanding had to devise a plan to redeem mankind from the fall of Adam and Eve...
In His wisdom He had to determine what lineage He wanted to use to manifest Jesus in the flesh.
And it began with the covenant God made with Abraham....so IMHO....the lineage of Mary was very important and that it had no generational curses that could be passed on to her....so her ancestors had to be just as upright and holy as she was.
God's timing was crucial as well....to fulfill prophesy about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple....
So Mary was predestined by God to fulfill His prophesy of the Messiah being born of a virgin....and be of the right lineage, and be born at the right time frame....
It wasn't because Mary was any more special than other women of God...it is just that she was born according to God's requirements that Jesus would be made manifest in the flesh.
(Rambling on i guess I will stop now)
I am He who was, who is, and who is to come.
“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.”
— Revelation 1:8 (KJV)
“And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.”
— Revelation 21:6 (KJV)
Revelation 1 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁴ John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
…
⁸ I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Jesus was here at the beginning.....before Mary was born.
Now you naturally assume He was present in Spirit....
But God in His wisdom, knowledge and understanding had to devise a plan to redeem mankind from the fall of Adam and Eve...
In His wisdom He had to determine what lineage He wanted to use to manifest Jesus in the flesh.
And it began with the covenant God made with Abraham....so IMHO....the lineage of Mary was very important and that it had no generational curses that could be passed on to her....so her ancestors had to be just as upright and holy as she was.
God's timing was crucial as well....to fulfill prophesy about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple....
So Mary was predestined by God to fulfill His prophesy of the Messiah being born of a virgin....and be of the right lineage, and be born at the right time frame....
It wasn't because Mary was any more special than other women of God...it is just that she was born according to God's requirements that Jesus would be made manifest in the flesh.
(Rambling on i guess I will stop now)
Jesus was here at the beginning of creation....long before Mary was born.
I meant what I said.
You added words to what I said, and thus I never said what you implied. If you are simply going to resort to this level (basement) of response, then I do not know why I would continue with you. However, of course Mary was special. So was Eve. So was Sarah. So was Elizabeth. So is the bride of Christ. They are unique in their own way.
Depends on what you mean by "a God". See Psalms 82 & John 10 for instance.
If you simply mean that Mary was chosen by God's grace to be the recipient of the Son of the Father for a short time, then yes, she was the only one like that, but every Christian is also so chosen by God's grace to have Christ Jesus born in them by the same Holy Ghost/Spirit.
Yes, Mary was the chosen woman by God's grace to be the mother of the Messiah.
Those who choose to accept His offer will be saved, that is for certain.
Did I ever utter those words? I see them coming from your response, not mine.
By adding the word "more" you added a thought to my words which is non existent. A lot of the women of the Bible are important. Without Eve, Mary would have no existence, as Eve is the mother of all living. Without Noah's wife, Mary would have no existence. Just looking at the genealogy in Matthew and Luke, etc, many women were needful and are important, like Ruth, like Bathsheba, etc. Without Elizabeth, there would be no John the Baptist, and thus no herald to Jesus. Without Levi's wife, there would be no lineage to Elizabeth. All are important, all needful. The relationship is mutual, each needing the other.
Jesus made the distinction clear in the Temple:
Luk_2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Jesus made it clear when speaking to His disciples when Jesus' mother and sons of Joseph were confused about their roles in his life:
Mat_12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mar_3:33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
Mar_3:33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
Jesus made it clear directly to her:
Joh_2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
Jesus made it clear to those listening to Him:
Luk 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Indeed, and more than likely buried by John the Apostle.
She is judged now, since Jesus moved into the Most Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary. See Hebrews 9:27; Revelation 14:7; Ecclesiastes 3:17, 12:13-14.
She will stand with those who overcame.
Doesn't matter what I think. It only matters what Scripture says - Isaiah 8:20. Mary will be (not yet there except as a name written down) in the First Resurrection, and enter to Heaven with all the saints together (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).
Yes, I realize you were responding to Curtis...
I am replying to you....
Someone else may also reply to you, or me...
Lol...it's a public forum....
If you desire a private one on one you can use the private conversation function.
God Bless
Esther was blessed and highly favored ....and she was extremely instrumental in saving her people from persecution and destruction....she was blessed and highly favored and became Queen...
At a most perilous time the burden fell on Esther to approach the king..she was very reluctant and afraid...but Mordecai"s words gave her courage..
Esther 4 (KJV)
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¹⁴ For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time, then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place; but thou and thy father's house shall be destroyed: and who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this?
…
¹⁶ Go, gather together all the Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day: I also and my maidens will fast likewise; and so will I go in unto the king, which is not according to the law: and if I perish, I perish.
