1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The Body of Christ vs. The Bride of Christ (pt. 1)

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Trekson, Jan 31, 2019.

  1. Keraz

    Keraz Active Member

    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    66
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    But Jesus didn't leave it with ethnic Israel. He took the Kingdom from them. Matthew 21:43
    He extended Salvation to all who would accept it and it is those who do, who are the faithful Israel of God. Galatians 6:14-16
    All the Promises of God are fulfilled in Jesus, 1 Corinthians 1:20 and we; His followers are the beneficiaries. Ephesians 3:6 & 1:11-14, Romans 8:16-18, Galatians 3:26-29, +

    I know the concept of us Christians going to live in all of the holy Land, is unknown to you and most Christians. That is how God wants it to be, but He does tell us His plans thru His prophets and the plain story is God did want a people in His Land who would be His witnesses and His light to the nations.
    The ancient Israelites failed in this but the day will come when what God desired, will come to pass.
    THAT is our destiny and our great privilege!
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  2. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,247
    Likes Received:
    128
    Mark 8:24 "And he looked up, and "I see men as trees, walking."

    Do you know what Jesus is asking this man, and the lesson He is trying to teach us? The lesson here deals with trees, the trees that go way back to the garden of Eden. The tree of life, who is Christ, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, who is Satan. Can you see the fig tree and the men filling the roles of the parable of the fig tree? The trees were not fuzzy, but they were clear, Jesus was teaching a lesson, and the lesson deals with all the lessons whereby people are used as trees.

    Back in Ezekiel 31 God used trees to explain exactly what would take place in the last generation. Satan the Assyrian presented himself to be the mighty cedar of Lebanon, higher than all the other boughs or branches, and the cedars of the garden of God, he tried to hide his identity. All of the other trees admired this mighty cedar, but in the end this mighty cedar will be cut down. It was talking about our generation, and the trees of this lesson are people. Jesus as asking us, do you see the lesson that I am trying to present to you, do you understand?

    This is how you gain the eyes to see, when you look at the types that are presented to you. Jesus Christ used symbols and types to teach us and give us more than He would say in Words, and those with eyes to see with understanding will look beyond for the deeper meanings.
     
  3. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,247
    Likes Received:
    128
    Why is he wrong?
     
  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,564
    Likes Received:
    2,374
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    The Holy Land is for the twelve tribes of Israel, not for Christians and the Church. We should note that Dan is included here (on earth) but excluded from the 144,000 (in Heaven).

    EZEKIEL 48
    1 Now these are the names of the tribes. From the north end to the coast of the way of Hethlon, as one goeth to Hamath, Hazarenan, the border of Damascus northward, to the coast of Hamath; for these are his sides east and west; a portion for Dan. [1]
    2 And by the border of Dan, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Asher. [2]
    3 And by the border of Asher, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Naphtali. [3]
    4 And by the border of Naphtali, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Manasseh. [4]
    5A nd by the border of Manasseh, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Ephraim. [5]
    6 And by the border of Ephraim, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Reuben. [6]
    7 And by the border of Reuben, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Judah. [7]
    8 And by the border of Judah, from the east side unto the west side, shall be the offering which ye shall offer of five and twenty thousand reeds in breadth, and in length as one of the other parts, from the east side unto the west side: and the sanctuary shall be in the midst of it.
    9 The oblation that ye shall offer unto the LORD shall be of five and twenty thousand in length, and of ten thousand in breadth.
    10 And for them, even for the priests, shall be this holy oblation...
    12 And this oblation of the land that is offered shall be unto them a thing most holy by the border of the Levites.
    13 And over against the border of the priests the Levites shall have five and twenty thousand in length, and ten thousand in breadth: all the length shall be five and twenty thousand, and the breadth ten thousand...
    23 As for the rest of the tribes, from the east side unto the west side, Benjamin shall have a portion. [8]
    24 And by the border of Benjamin, from the east side unto the west side, Simeon shall have a portion. [9]
    25 And by the border of Simeon, from the east side unto the west side, Issachar a portion. [10]
    26 And by the border of Issachar, from the east side unto the west side, Zebulun a portion. [11]
    27 And by the border of Zebulun, from the east side unto the west side, Gad aportion... [12]
    29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord GOD.
     
  5. marks

    marks Active Member

    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    79
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I'd say it's unknown to the Scriptures.

    I really don't see any place that give the Gentiles a land allotment, or any place that recants, rescinds, abrogates, or whatever word you want to use, that the promised land is given to Jacob's children forever.

    It's like saying, I'm giving my wife a car, and I tell her she can keep it forever. But then we get divorced, go our ways, and I remarry. God forbid!

    But even so . . .

    You have God as the one who makes then breaks the promise, taking the car back from wife 1 to give to wife 2.

    I just don't see God as a promise breaker, and I don't see Scripture saying it's them when it's really us.

    Much love!
    Mark
     
  6. Keraz

    Keraz Active Member

    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    66
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    Because I challenge his beliefs and prove the 'rapture to heaven' wrong.
    CI has no scripture to back his beliefs, so resorts to worthless comments and personal abuse.
     
    n2thelight likes this.
  7. Keraz

    Keraz Active Member

    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    66
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    So tell us who and where are the 12 Tribes of Israel today? We know the 2 tribes of Judah and Benjamin are represented by the Jews, but the other 10 remain scattered among the nations. It is their descendants who have, in the main, accepted the Gospel.
    Anyway, Gentiles joining Israel was always possible. We Christians are the Israel of God. Galatians 6:14-16
     
  8. Keraz

    Keraz Active Member

    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    66
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    God keeps His promises and the Bible makes it clear that the true descendants of Abraham are by faith not by natural descent. Galatians 3:26-29 However, as I say above, it is likely that most of the Christians in the Western nations are actual descendants as well. God knows who they are; Amos9:9

    The new nation of Beulah, in all of the holy Land;

    Isaiah 62:1-2a For Zion’s sake, I shall not keep silent – until her victory shines forth, like the sunrise, her victory like a blazing torch. The nations will see your victory and their rulers your glory.

    Isaiah prophesies for the sake of Zion; the holy Land. There will be a great victory, ‘like a blazing torch’ - a CME sunstrike over the attacking enemies. Isaiah 30:25-30 & 66:15-16, Psalms 11:4-6 The world will see it and be amazed. Jeremiah 33:6-16

    Isaiah 62:2b-5 You will receive a new name, the Lord Himself will give it. You will be like a glorious crown in His hand. No more are you forsaken and your Land desolate. You will be called ‘Hephzibah’ and the Land, ‘Beulah’. For the Lord will delight in you and it will be like a marriage: He will rejoice over you as a bridegroom over his bride.
    ‘Hephzibah’ = My delight is in her. ‘Beulah’ = married. Isaiah 49:18

    The Lord’s people, Christian Israelites will be gathered and settled into their heritage, all of the holy Land, in the new nation of Beulah. Wonderful promises to them of fertility and wealth. They will live in justice, peace and security, as He intended people to be.

    Isaiah 62:6-7 Jerusalem, on your walls, I have posted watchmen, they will call out: You that invoke the Name of the Lord, do not rest and give no rest to the Lord until He makes Jerusalem a praise throughout the world.

    The Hebrew word for ‘watchmen’, is ‘natzar’, the root word for Nazarene; literally all Christian believers. WE must not rest or let the Lord forget His people and His Land. Keep praying for our redemption and restoration. Ezekiel 36:24-28, Isaiah 52:7-9

    Isaiah 62:8-9 The Lord has sworn to never again allow foreigners to take the produce of the Land, but you who give praises to Him will eat the grain and drink the wine, within My sacred courts.

    After the great clearance in the Middle East, only His righteous people will be allowed to live there, those who love the Lord and obey Him. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Ezekiel 20:38, Isaiah 35:1-10

    Isaiah 62:10-11 Pass through the gates – clear a road for My people. Build a highway, remove the rocks and make a signal to guide the people. Proclaim to the ends of the earth, say to the offspring of Zion: See your deliverance comes, His reward is with Him and He will make recompense.

    The great gathering of the Lord’s people – the second Exodus, will happen in the same manner as the first Exodus. Leaders [shepherds] will arise to guide the flock, in the spirit of Moses and Elijah. Jeremiah 3:14-15, Isaiah 58:11, Isaiah 43:5-7, Micah 4:6, Isaiah 49:9-13, Isaiah 51:3, Zechariah 8:11-12, Isaiah 40:1-5, Ezekiel 11:17 and the great Psalm 107

    Isaiah 62:12 They will be called ‘The Holy people, the Redeemed of God’ and Jerusalem will be called ‘sought after, the City no longer forsaken’.

    The Lord’s faithful Christian people: living in the Holy Land of Beulah, as He created them to live, being a ‘light to the nations’ and witnesses to His salvation. They will send out 144,000 missionaries to every people group, to preach the good news of the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19, 1 Peter 2:9-10, Acts 2:39, Jeremiah 31:23-34

    Joel 2:23-27 People of Zion, rejoice – your God will recompense you for the years that others have ravaged your Land. You will again have plenty in your own Land. Then you will know that I am present in Israel and that I and no other am your God. We will know the Lord is present by His deeds. Just as it was at the Exodus.
    This will happen before the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign.
     
  9. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,569
    Likes Received:
    648
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The blind man was sitting on the ground so when he could then see everybody else was towering around him like trees.

    There's no mention of the tree of life. That is your thinking, not what the Bible teaches.

    Lebanon was renowned for its cedar trees. The symbolism here was Angels.

    Satan towered above the other angels in grandeur and power.

    But Lebanon clear-cut the cedar trees. They fell them. Satan and the fallen angels fell themselves through rebellion.

    So just as it's trees were gone so also their grandeur Satan and the fallen angels lost their grandeur and were removed from heaven. Now the fallen angels are bound in the pit just as the ancient cedar trees have rotted away.

    I see you said Words, demonstrating you do not understand that Word/Logos has a different meaning from word.
     
  10. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,569
    Likes Received:
    648
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Replacement theology
     
  11. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,247
    Likes Received:
    128
    You wrong,but okay
     
  12. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,569
    Likes Received:
    648
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Three problems with your thinking:

    1. Adam and Eve were prevented from eating from the tree of life. So by your claim mankind prevented from partaking of Christ.

    2, Adam and Eve already a from the tree of knowledge. Knowledge is not evil but disobeying God when you know better is.

    3. You didn't give a single verse to back your thinking.
     
  13. Keraz

    Keraz Active Member

    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    66
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    I have a question for those who would insist that Paul was speaking only of Jewish believers when he referred to “the Israel of God.”
    Paul’s use of this expression implies that there was an Israel during his time that was not of God, which would have been national Israel (as a whole, minus the few Christian believers, who escaped to Pella).
    It’s often insisted today that modern Israel is a continuation and a restoration of national Israel, which was virtually wiped out by the Roman armies in 70 AD. Luke 19:27

    If that (pre-70-135 AD) Israel was not of God, then why is national Israel today allegedly “God’s chosen people”, “the apple of God’s eye,” a nation that we [supposedly] should bless and support unconditionally?
     
  14. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,338
    Likes Received:
    2,128
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    Zec 7:13 Therefore it is come to pass, that as he cried, and they would not hear; so they cried, and I would not hear, saith the LORD of hosts:
    Zec 7:14 But I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations whom they knew not. Thus the land was desolate after them, that no man passed through nor returned: for they laid the pleasant land desolate.

    Zec 8:1 Again the word of the LORD of hosts came to me, saying,
    Zec 8:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury.
    Zec 8:3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.
    Zec 8:4 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.
    Zec 8:5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.
    Zec 8:6 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the LORD of hosts.
    Zec 8:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country;
    Zec 8:8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

    They are His people and will always be His people,
     
  15. Trekson

    Trekson Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,417
    Likes Received:
    95
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Where do you see that in scripture? As you know I believe they were in the garden a much longer time than young-earthers think. The bible only says they were forbidden to eat of it after the fall, not before.
     
  16. Keraz

    Keraz Active Member

    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    66
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    Please explain exactly who 'they' are.

    Are 'they' the current occupants of the holy Land/ Those atheist or Judaism religion, plus any number of other cults, such as Baha'i, whose nation was founded on Communist principals and who promote Tel Aviv as the gay capital of the world? The people who come from all kinds of ethnicities, but choose to call themselves Jews, without any proof of descent from Judah?

    You completely miss the fact that Jesus extended Salvation to all who would accept it. THEY, every faithful, born again Christian; are His chosen and the elect people of God. No one else. John 15:14-16, 1 Peter 2:9-10

    You determination to have the Jews as still being God's people, despite the scripture saying: God has no favorites, is a result of the false 'rapture to heaven' theory, that must have the Jews on earth, being refined, while you sit in heaven. Doing what, pray tell me?
    Both the Church going to heaven and a general redemption of the Jews, are ideas that are never found in the Bible, so will never happen.
     
  17. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,569
    Likes Received:
    648
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Just
    n2thelight said the tree of life was Christ.
     
  18. Trekson

    Trekson Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,417
    Likes Received:
    95
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Oh, well, imo, I think he's wrong. It is God's own unique creation. Just??
     
    CoreIssue likes this.
  19. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,338
    Likes Received:
    2,128
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    Oh your sarcasm shows your ignorance.. Al let h12 tribes of Israel, they will return as God calls them, And yes there eyes will be opened and they will recognize there Savior and the will be saved, where you and all of christianity like it or not.
     
  20. Keraz

    Keraz Active Member

    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    66
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    Where was I sarcastic? Or ignorant; I quoted known facts.
    Your reply merely has your opinion, without any proofs. All bluff and bluster.

    The error that most make, is in assigning the prophesies for Israel to the Jewish State of Israel. The Bible prophets always carefully separate Judah and Israel and they remain separate today. Judah, the Jewish people, who wrongly call their country Israel, have many specific prophesies of how God will deal with them in these end times.
    But Israel is different, one of the best examples of what the Lord will do to each is in Amos 2:4-5; for Judah and Amos 2:6-16 for Israel. Also Jeremiah 19:10-12 and Jeremiah 18:6; Judah smashed beyond repair and Israel remoulded.


    So the question is: Who is the true Israel? We know the answer; it is every born again Christian, the Lord's chosen people, 1 Peter 2:9-10, and those bought by His blood, Revelation 5:9-10.
    THEY are the faithful Israel of God, Galatians 6:14-16, His Overcomers, literally: true Israelites.
    With that truth in mind, the prophesies make sense and we can know our destiny; how the Lord promises to save and Bless all who put their trust in Him. Jeremiah 17:7-8 Jew and Gentile.

    The idea that the Jewish people still have God's favour, is sadly mistaken. They have had nearly 2000 years of God's grace for them to accept their Messiah. This has not and will not happen, as Jesus knew they wouldn't. That is why He said that He would save the lost House of Israel. the other ten tribes, still in exile, who have largely accepted Jesus and are now His Overcomers, the genuine Israelites of God.

    The true Israelites of God are every faithful Christian, from every tribe, race, nation and language. That is how it has been from the beginning; the congregation, the ekkelasia; the church of faithful believers, from Abel, to Elijah's 7000, to the few survivors after 40 years in the desert, to the Pilgrim Fathers, to all of today’s born again Christian believers. People from every tribe, race, nation and language, the inheritors of all the Promises of God. 1 Corinthians 1:20, Romans 8:16-18, Ephesians 1:10-14, Ephesians 3:6, Galatians 3:26-29, +
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019 at 1:27 PM
Loading...