The Body of Christ vs. The Bride of Christ (pt. 1)

[n2thelight]

Your tree claims are not biblical.

Who or what were the two tree's in the Garden?

 

[Trekson]

That is not true. There were no Jew at that time therefore no Jewish wedding custom.

That's like saying because Abraham wasn't Jewish, his righteousness doesn't count. Anyways, the following is from a Messianic website -
What is Shiddukhin?

Shiddukhin refers to the first step in the marriage process - the arraignments preliminary to the legal betrothal. It was common in ancient Israel of the father of the groom to select a bride for his son.

Biblical Example of Shiddukhin - Genesis 24:1-4

Notice in this passage Abraham - makes arrangements for his son Isaac's wedding. While the father usually had the responsibility in Abraham's life it was not possible. It was acceptable for the father to delegate this responsibility by designating a representative - called a shadkhan - marriage broker or matchmaker.

The next phase of this step was the - Ketubah

Ketubah means - "written" Written in Hebrew as - hbtk. The ketubah was and still is today the - "marriage contract." The ketubah includes the provisions and conditions of the proposed marriage:

• The groom promises to support his wife to be.
• The bride stipulates the contents of her dowry - financial status.

We see this described in - Gen. 24:52-53. Despite the fact that this was an "arraigned marriage", it appears that the consent of the bride was very much a part of the ketubah - (Gen. 24:5).


The Mohar - or Bridal Payment

This is sometimes called - the Bride price. It is a gift paid by the groom to the bride's family - but ultimately belongs to the bride. It changed her status and set her free from her parent's household. We see this illustrated in two Biblical examples:

• Isaac and Rebecca - Gen. 24:53
• Jacob and his wives - Gen. 29:20,27

 

[Trekson]

If only a doctrinal difference how do you explain the return of the Stone Temple in Jerusalem and animal sacrifices during the millennial kingdom?

If you're referring to the latter part of Ezekiel, that design and rules related were intended for the second temple, that is why sacrifices are mentioned. If you read, Ezra, Nehemiah and Hosea you'll see that because of their sin as a nation they didn't deserve or earn the promised temple and land at that point. They will still likely get that prophesied land temple and land in the millennium but there will be no more "law" associated with it.

 

[CoreIssue]

Who or what were the two tree's in the Garden?

The tree of life and the tree of knowledge.

They ate of the tree of knowledge and it no longer exists. They now possess the knowledge of good and evil.

They were barred from eating of the tree of life but in the new Jerusalem the river running down the street will be lined with trees of life.

 

[CoreIssue]

If you're referring to the latter part of Ezekiel, that design and rules related were intended for the second temple, that is why sacrifices are mentioned. If you read, Ezra, Nehemiah and Hosea you'll see that because of their sin as a nation they didn't deserve or earn the promised temple and land at that point. They will still likely get that prophesied land temple and land in the millennium but there will be no more "law" associated with it.

It is prophecy. If God intended it to be built back then it would've been built.

The covenant to the houses Judah and Israel is still future. It says it will be different from the Mosaic covenant. Better.

We are under the blood covenant given by Christ at the Last Supper.

 

[CoreIssue]

That's like saying because Abraham wasn't Jewish, his righteousness doesn't count. Anyways, the following is from a Messianic website -
What is Shiddukhin?

Shiddukhin refers to the first step in the marriage process - the arraignments preliminary to the legal betrothal. It was common in ancient Israel of the father of the groom to select a bride for his son.

Biblical Example of Shiddukhin - Genesis 24:1-4

Notice in this passage Abraham - makes arrangements for his son Isaac's wedding. While the father usually had the responsibility in Abraham's life it was not possible. It was acceptable for the father to delegate this responsibility by designating a representative - called a shadkhan - marriage broker or matchmaker.

The next phase of this step was the - Ketubah

Ketubah means - "written" Written in Hebrew as - hbtk. The ketubah was and still is today the - "marriage contract." The ketubah includes the provisions and conditions of the proposed marriage:

• The groom promises to support his wife to be.
• The bride stipulates the contents of her dowry - financial status.

We see this described in - Gen. 24:52-53. Despite the fact that this was an "arraigned marriage", it appears that the consent of the bride was very much a part of the ketubah - (Gen. 24:5).


The Mohar - or Bridal Payment

This is sometimes called - the Bride price. It is a gift paid by the groom to the bride's family - but ultimately belongs to the bride. It changed her status and set her free from her parent's household. We see this illustrated in two Biblical examples:

• Isaac and Rebecca - Gen. 24:53
• Jacob and his wives - Gen. 29:20,27

Jewish is derived from Judah. Israel did not exist because the 12 tribes come from the 12 sons of Isaac, who were yet to be born in the time of Abraham.

Abraham begat Isaac who became Israel and then bore the 12 sons who became the tribes of Israel, one of them being Judah.

Abraham was never ever a Jew. The division of Jew and Gentile did not yet exist, everyone was human and nothing else.

 

[CoreIssue]

The Jewish wedding custom is clearly laid out in this link.

Marriage Super of the Lamb

 

[CoreIssue]

That's like saying because Abraham wasn't Jewish, his righteousness doesn't count. Anyways, the following is from a Messianic website -
What is Shiddukhin?

Shiddukhin refers to the first step in the marriage process - the arraignments preliminary to the legal betrothal. It was common in ancient Israel of the father of the groom to select a bride for his son.

Biblical Example of Shiddukhin - Genesis 24:1-4

Notice in this passage Abraham - makes arrangements for his son Isaac's wedding. While the father usually had the responsibility in Abraham's life it was not possible. It was acceptable for the father to delegate this responsibility by designating a representative - called a shadkhan - marriage broker or matchmaker.

The next phase of this step was the - Ketubah

Ketubah means - "written" Written in Hebrew as - hbtk. The ketubah was and still is today the - "marriage contract." The ketubah includes the provisions and conditions of the proposed marriage:

• The groom promises to support his wife to be.
• The bride stipulates the contents of her dowry - financial status.

We see this described in - Gen. 24:52-53. Despite the fact that this was an "arraigned marriage", it appears that the consent of the bride was very much a part of the ketubah - (Gen. 24:5).


The Mohar - or Bridal Payment

This is sometimes called - the Bride price. It is a gift paid by the groom to the bride's family - but ultimately belongs to the bride. It changed her status and set her free from her parent's household. We see this illustrated in two Biblical examples:

• Isaac and Rebecca - Gen. 24:53
• Jacob and his wives - Gen. 29:20,27

You are missing the significant portions of the wedding custom which are included in the link I had just provided. Parts that are a significant importance in the church age.

 

[Trekson]

No, I'm not missing the point, I read the article, however I was unable to find a non-Messianic-Jewish based site to verify. Just because someone writes a bunch of things down, doesn't make them legit. Rules and customs were in effect before Israel was born, the point I was making is that Israel adapted known practices into their marriage rituals. If you ever looked into Melchizedek you will see a pre-incarnate Christ involving himself in the affairs of men and teaching righteousness before Abraham was chosen.

 

[CoreIssue]

No, I'm not missing the point, I read the article, however I was unable to find a non-Messianic-Jewish based site to verify. Just because someone writes a bunch of things down, doesn't make them legit. Rules and customs were in effect before Israel was born, the point I was making is that Israel adapted known practices into their marriage rituals. If you ever looked into Melchizedek you will see a pre-incarnate Christ involving himself in the affairs of men and teaching righteousness before Abraham was chosen.

The cup, thief in the night, only the father knowing, the father sending the son, the groom coming at midnight, the groom preparing a place of the bride, bride price and all the rest are in both the Bible and that article.

There is more than enough to confirm it.

10.1. The Jewish Wedding Analogy Commentary - A Testimony of Jesus Christ

Are there parallels between Jewish wedding traditions and our relationship to Christ?

The Jewish Wedding System and the Bride of Christ • FaithEquip

BIBLE STUDY MANUALS: JEWISH MARRIAGE CUSTOMS

 

[marks]

I'm aware of those passages that speak of us metaphorically as a bride. There is the passage that Paul says he's espoused us.

What about passages that teach on God being married, or marrying, and who He married or will marry?

Much love!
Mark

 

[Trekson]

The Jewish wedding custom is clearly laid out in this link.

Marriage Super of the Lamb

The problem with these kinds of sights is; they are prone to stretching the truth, actually fabricating a truth and over exaggerating a comparison, so for your benefit, I went line by line to point out many of the problem shown there.

In the examination of the analogy the first thing that should be noted is the fact that the Scriptures regard the Church to be the Bride of Christ (Eph. 5:22-23). In addition, just as the Jewish bridegroom took the initiative in marriage by leaving his father's house and traveling to the home of the prospective bride, so Jesus left his Father's house in heaven and traveled to earth, the home of His prospective Church, over 1900 years ago. Not quite true. The groom only came to the bride’s house to escort her back for the wedding. Usually, the bride and groom weren’t part of the betrothal because typically they were arranged marriages. Doesn’t add up.

On the same night in which Jesus made His promise in John 14 He instituted communion. As He passed the cup of wine to His disciples, He said: "This cup is the new covenant in my blood." (NASV, 1 Cor. 11:25). This was His way of saying that He would establish a new covenant through the shedding of His blood on the cross. Not associated with a wedding in any manner.

Parallel to the custom of the Jewish groom paying a price to purchase his bride, Jesus paid a price to purchase His Bride, the Church. The price that He paid was His own life blood. It was because of this purchase price that Paul wrote the following to members of the Church: "do you not know... that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body". (NASV, 1 Cor. 6:19-20). A total perversion of the reality. The truth is that the father of the groom paid a bride price to the father of the bride. In the “church is the bride” scenario, who is the bride’s father? Many times the groom didn't have a choice in selecting the bride.

Analogous with the Jewish bride being declared to be sanctified or set apart exclusively for her groom once the marriage covenant was established, the Church has been declared to be sanctified or set apart exclusively for Christ (Eph. 5:25-27; 1 Cor. 1:2, 6:11; Heb. 10:10; 13:12). This doesn’t quite ring true either. This was part of the betrothal ceremony and typically, the betrothal and the wedding took place on the same day followed be seven days of celebration and the bride went back to her father’s house for one year. The marriage wasn’t consummated until the bride moved to the groom’s home.

In the same way that a cup of wine served as a symbol of marriage covenant through which the Jewish groom obtained his bride, so the cup of communion serves as the symbol of the covenant through which Christ has obtained the Church (1 Cor. 11:25). No, it does not!! It commemorates the shed blood of Christ for, our sins, no marriage thoughts in sight.

Just as the Jewish groom left the home of his bride and returned to his father's house after the marriage covenant had been established, so Jesus returned to His Father's house in heaven after He had established the new covenant and risen from the dead (John 6:62; 20:17). Mostly true.

In correspondence with the period of separation between the Jewish groom and bride, Christ has remained separate from the Church for over 1900 years. The Church is now living in that period of separation. Assuming a truth not yet in evidence.

Parallel to the custom of the Jewish groom preparing living accommodations for his bride in his father's house during the time of separation, Christ has been preparing living accommodations for the Church in His Father's house in heaven during His separation from His Bride (John 14:20). Mostly true, the bride aspect is still questionable.

In the same manner as the Jewish groom came to take his bride to live with him at the end of the period of separation, so Christ will come to take the Church to live with Him at the end of His period of separation from the Church (John 14:3). A time of separation, yes, because of betrothal or marriage, no!

Just as the taking of the Jewish bride was accomplished by a procession of the groom and male escorts from the groom's father's house to the home of the bride, so the taking of the Church will be accomplished by a procession of Christ and an angelic escort from Christ's Father's house in heaven to the home of the Church (1 Thess. 4:16). Let’s not forget the attendants to the bride. (Matt. 25)

Analogous with the Jewish bride not knowing the exact time of the groom's coming for her the Church does not know the exact time of Christ's coming for her. True but also true in other aspects not related to marriage.

In the same way that the Jewish groom's arrival was preceded by a shout, so Christ's arrival to take the Church will be preceded by a shout (1 Thess. 4:16). Not historically accurate, no shout given just an announcement as soon as the groom's procession was seen.

Similar to the Jewish bride's return with the groom to his father' house after her departure from her home, the Church will return with Christ to His Father's house in heaven after she is snatched from the earth to meet Him in the air (1 Thess. 4:17; John 14:2-3). “Snatched” is an unnecessary and untruthful word but the return to the groom's Father's house is historically true.

In the same manner as the Jewish wedding party found wedding guests assembled in the groom's father's house when they arrived, so Christ and the Church will find the souls of old Testament saints assembled in heaven when they arrive. These souls will serve as the wedding guests. A totally made up assumption!

Parallel to the custom of the Jewish groom and bride entering into physical union after their arrival at the groom's father's house, thereby consummating the marriage that had been covenanted earlier, Christ and the Church will experience spiritual union after their arrival at His Father's house in heaven, thereby consummating their relationship that had been covenanted earlier. Totally bogus, we enter that union at salvation with the help of the Holy Spirit and there are a few steps missing.

In correspondence with the Jewish bride remaining hidden in the bridal chamber for a period of seven days after arrival at the groom's father's house, the Church will remain hidden for a period of seven after arrival at Christ's Father's house in heaven. While the seven year Tribulation Period is taking place on the earth, the Church will be in heaven totally hidden from the sight of those living on the earth. Another flat out lie. The bride was never “hidden” for seven days. The bride and groom had separate receptions during this time.

Just as the Jewish groom brought his bride out of the bridal chamber at the conclusion of the seven days with her veil removed, so that all could see who his bride was, so Christ will bring the Church out of heaven in His Second Coming at the conclusion of the seven year Tribulation Period in full view of all who are alive, so that all can see who the true Church is (Col. 3:4). Another stretch, not all brides wore veils and the church will be “coming out” prepared to go to war.

In summation, here are some parts of the wedding ceremony that are missing. Marriages were arranged by both fathers. Who is the father of the bride? How was he paid the bride price? Where is the ritual “bath” for the bride before the wedding ceremony and no, baptism wouldn’t fit the analogy? Where is the ring placement? The ring was typically given to the bride as a “just in case” financial gift, in case the marriage didn’t work out and there was a divorce. When do the bride and groom go into a secluded room for a snack to break the pre-wedding fast? Where is the pre-wedding fast that began at sundown, the day before the actual ceremony? Historically, it was undesirable for the groom to marry a woman from a foreign clan (Gentiles!!!) Historically, the majority of the dowry (bride price) was given back to the bride on the day of the wedding, where is that?

 

[CoreIssue]

The problem with these kinds of sights is; they are prone to stretching the truth, actually fabricating a truth and over exaggerating a comparison, so for your benefit, I went line by line to point out many of the problem shown there.

In the examination of the analogy the first thing that should be noted is the fact that the Scriptures regard the Church to be the Bride of Christ (Eph. 5:22-23). In addition, just as the Jewish bridegroom took the initiative in marriage by leaving his father's house and traveling to the home of the prospective bride, so Jesus left his Father's house in heaven and traveled to earth, the home of His prospective Church, over 1900 years ago. Not quite true. The groom only came to the bride’s house to escort her back for the wedding. Usually, the bride and groom weren’t part of the betrothal because typically they were arranged marriages. Doesn’t add up.

It adds up perfectly. At the rapture Christ comes as a thief in the night into the clouds and summons his Saints to him.

They all go to heaven where the rest of the marriage custom is fulfilled.

Unless you deny the rapture.

Now you're going back to pre-Israel for the dominate arranged marriages.

In the NT the bride and groom always met before the wedding contract. The sharing of the cup signal they wish to proceed.

On the same night in which Jesus made His promise in John 14 He instituted communion. As He passed the cup of wine to His disciples, He said: "This cup is the new covenant in my blood." (NASV, 1 Cor. 11:25). This was His way of saying that He would establish a new covenant through the shedding of His blood on the cross. Not associated with a wedding in any manner.

The exchange of the cup was most assuredly part of the wedding ceremony. The cup was filled with wine in the wedding ceremony and at the Last Supper. It was not called communion.

Parallel to the custom of the Jewish groom paying a price to purchase his bride, Jesus paid a price to purchase His Bride, the Church. The price that He paid was His own life blood. It was because of this purchase price that Paul wrote the following to members of the Church: "do you not know... that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body". (NASV, 1 Cor. 6:19-20). A total perversion of the reality. The truth is that the father of the groom paid a bride price to the father of the bride. In the “church is the bride” scenario, who is the bride’s father? Many times the groom didn't have a choice in selecting the bride.

You better look again. The father of the groom did pay the bride price. And again you're trying to go back to pre-Israel.

The bride price goes to the bride.

Analogous with the Jewish bride being declared to be sanctified or set apart exclusively for her groom once the marriage covenant was established, the Church has been declared to be sanctified or set apart exclusively for Christ (Eph. 5:25-27; 1 Cor. 1:2, 6:11; Heb. 10:10; 13:12). This doesn’t quite ring true either. This was part of the betrothal ceremony and typically, the betrothal and the wedding took place on the same day followed be seven days of celebration and the bride went back to her father’s house for one year. The marriage wasn’t consummated until the bride moved to the groom’s home.

In the same way that a cup of wine served as a symbol of marriage covenant through which the Jewish groom obtained his bride, so the cup of communion serves as the symbol of the covenant through which Christ has obtained the Church (1 Cor. 11:25). No, it does not!! It commemorates the shed blood of Christ for, our sins, no marriage thoughts in sight.

The church accepts the blood of Christ in the cup. Why why do you have a problem with that being the wedding cup?

Are we not joined to Christ via his blood? Married to him?

You seem to not understand that from the moment the wedding custom begins until the bride comes from the bedchamber at the end they are already considered married.

Just as the Jewish groom left the home of his bride and returned to his father's house after the marriage covenant had been established, so Jesus returned to His Father's house in heaven after He had established the new covenant and risen from the dead (John 6:62; 20:17). Mostly true.

Completely true.

In correspondence with the period of separation between the Jewish groom and bride, Christ has remained separate from the Church for over 1900 years. The Church is now living in that period of separation. Assuming a truth not yet in evidence.

It's absolutely no evidence. Do you see Christ on the earth anywhere?

Who indwelt you, the Holy Spirit Christ?

to the custom of the Jewish groom preparing living accommodations for his bride in his father's house during the Parallel time of separation, Christ has been preparing living accommodations for the Church in His Father's house in heaven during His separation from His Bride (John 14:20). Mostly true, the bride aspect is still questionable.

The New Jerusalem.

OT Israel Saints are the wedding guests.

In the same manner as the Jewish groom came to take his bride to live with him at the end of the period of separation, so Christ will come to take the Church to live with Him at the end of His period of separation from the Church (John 14:3). A time of separation, yes, because of betrothal or marriage, no!

Yes.

Just as the taking of the Jewish bride was accomplished by a procession of the groom and male escorts from the groom's father's house to the home of the bride, so the taking of the Church will be accomplished by a procession of Christ and an angelic escort from Christ's Father's house in heaven to the home of the Church (1 Thess. 4:16). Let’s not forget the attendants to the bride. (Matt. 25)

The bride's attendance do not come with the groom. They are with the bride. That would be resurrected Saints of the Old Testament and new.

Analogous with the Jewish bride not knowing the exact time of the groom's coming for her the Church does not know the exact time of Christ's coming for her. True but also true in other aspects not related to marriage.

So what?

In the same way that the Jewish groom's arrival was preceded by a shout, so Christ's arrival to take the Church will be preceded by a shout (1 Thess. 4:16). Not historically accurate, no shout given just an announcement as soon as the groom's procession was seen.

I've seen evidence.

Similar to the Jewish bride's return with the groom to his father' house after her departure from her home, the Church will return with Christ to His Father's house in heaven after she is snatched from the earth to meet Him in the air (1 Thess. 4:17; John 14:2-3). “Snatched” is an unnecessary and untruthful word but the return to the groom's Father's house is historically true.

That is the Greek word used.

In the same manner as the Jewish wedding party found wedding guests assembled in the groom's father's house when they arrived, so Christ and the Church will find the souls of old Testament saints assembled in heaven when they arrive. These souls will serve as the wedding guests. A totally made up assumption!

The resurrected Saints in the Old Testament are rapture did the same time as the church.

Where did you get the guests have to already be there?

Parallel to the custom of the Jewish groom and bride entering into physical union after their arrival at the groom's father's house, thereby consummating the marriage that had been covenanted earlier, Christ and the Church will experience spiritual union after their arrival at His Father's house in heaven, thereby consummating their relationship that had been covenanted earlier. Totally bogus, we enter that union at salvation with the help of the Holy Spirit and there are a few steps missing.

When the church emerges from the seven days of seclusion she is adorned as wife. So there's most assuredly change.

In correspondence with the Jewish bride remaining hidden in the bridal chamber for a period of seven days after arrival at the groom's father's house, the Church will remain hidden for a period of seven after arrival at Christ's Father's house in heaven. While the seven year Tribulation Period is taking place on the earth, the Church will be in heaven totally hidden from the sight of those living on the earth. Another flat out lie. The bride was never “hidden” for seven days. The bride and groom had separate receptions during this time.

Where did you get that from?

Just as the Jewish groom brought his bride out of the bridal chamber at the conclusion of the seven days with her veil removed, so that all could see who his bride was, so Christ will bring the Church out of heaven in His Second Coming at the conclusion of the seven year Tribulation Period in full view of all who are alive, so that all can see who the true Church is (Col. 3:4). Another stretch, not all brides wore veils and the church will be “coming out” prepared to go to war.

What is your point? You don't like the rapture?

I had to shorten the post because of too long.

 

[Keraz]

I'm aware of those passages that speak of us metaphorically as a bride. There is the passage that Paul says he's espoused us.

What about passages that teach on God being married, or marrying, and who He married or will marry?

Much love!
Mark

There is a good prophecy in Isaiah that tells us about who and when God will marry His people:

Isaiah 62:1-2a For Zion’s sake, I shall not keep silent – until her victory shines forth, like the sunrise, her victory like a blazing torch. The nations will see your victory and their rulers your glory.

Isaiah prophesies for the sake of Zion; the holy Land. There will be a great victory, ‘like a blazing torch’ - a CME sunstrike over the attacking enemies. Isaiah 30:25-30 & 66:15-16, Psalms 11:4-6 The Psalms 83 event, which will be the Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Revelation 6:12-17 world will see it and be amazed. Jeremiah 33:6-16

Isaiah 62:2b-5 You will receive a new name, the Lord Himself will give it. You will be like a glorious crown in His hand. No more are you forsaken and your Land desolate. You will be called ‘Hephzibah’ and the Land, ‘Beulah’. For the Lord will delight in you and it will be like a marriage: He will rejoice over you as a bridegroom over his bride. ‘Hephzibah’ = My delight is in her. ‘Beulah’ = married. Isaiah 49:18

The Lord’s people, Christian Israelites from every race, nation and language, will be gathered and settled into their heritage, all of the holy Land, in the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 66:18b-21
Wonderful promises to them of fertility and wealth. They will live in justice, peace and security, as He intended people to be.


Isaiah 62:6-7 Jerusalem, on your walls, I have posted watchmen, they will call out: You that invoke the Name of the Lord, do not rest and give no rest to the Lord until He makes Jerusalem a praise throughout the world.

The Hebrew word for ‘watchmen’, is ‘natzar’, the root word for Nazarene; literally all Christian believers. WE must not rest or let the Lord forget His faithful people and His Land. Keep praying for our redemption and restoration. Ezekiel 36:24-28, Isaiah 52:7-9

Isaiah 62:8-9 The Lord has sworn to never again allow foreigners to take the produce of the Land, but you who give praises to Him will eat the grain and drink the wine, within My sacred courts.

After the great clearance in the Middle East, only His true believers and Commandment keeping people will be allowed to live there, those who love the Lord and obey Him. Isaiah 66:20-21, Ezekiel 20:38, Jeremiah 12:14-16 says that the Jews will only be allowed back if they become Christians.

Isaiah 62:10-11 Pass through the gates – clear a road for My people. Build a highway, remove the rocks and make a signal to guide the people. Proclaim to the ends of the earth, say to the offspring of Zion: See your deliverance comes, His reward is with Him and He will make recompense.

The great gathering of the Lord’s people – the second Exodus, will happen in the same manner as the first Exodus. Leaders [shepherds] will arise to guide the flock, in the spirit of Moses and Elijah. Jeremiah 3:14-15, Isaiah 58:11, Isaiah 43:5-7, Micah 4:6, Isaiah 49:9-13, Isaiah 51:3, Zechariah 8:11-12, Isaiah 40:1-5, Ezekiel 11:17

Isaiah 62:12 They will be called ‘The Holy people, the Redeemed of God’ and Jerusalem will be called ‘sought after, the City no longer forsaken’. Romans 9:24-26...we Christians will be called the children of the Living God.

The Lord’s faithful Christian people: living in the Holy Land of Beulah, as He intends them to live, being a ‘light to the nations’ and witnesses to His salvation. They will send out 144,000 missionaries to every people group, to preach the good news of the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19, 1 Peter 2:9-10, Acts 2:39, Jeremiah 31:23-34

Joel 2:23-27 People of Zion, rejoice – your God will recompense you for the years that others have ravaged your Land. You will again have plenty in your own Land. Then you will know that I am present in Israel and that I and no other am your God. We will know the Lord is present by His deeds. Just as it was at the Exodus. Must be before the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign.

 

[CoreIssue]

There is a good prophecy in Isaiah that tells us about who and when God will marry His people:

Isaiah 62:1-2a For Zion’s sake, I shall not keep silent – until her victory shines forth, like the sunrise, her victory like a blazing torch. The nations will see your victory and their rulers your glory.

Isaiah prophesies for the sake of Zion; the holy Land. There will be a great victory, ‘like a blazing torch’ - a CME sunstrike over the attacking enemies. Isaiah 30:25-30 & 66:15-16, Psalms 11:4-6 The Psalms 83 event, which will be the Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Revelation 6:12-17 world will see it and be amazed. Jeremiah 33:6-16

Isaiah 62:2b-5 You will receive a new name, the Lord Himself will give it. You will be like a glorious crown in His hand. No more are you forsaken and your Land desolate. You will be called ‘Hephzibah’ and the Land, ‘Beulah’. For the Lord will delight in you and it will be like a marriage: He will rejoice over you as a bridegroom over his bride. ‘Hephzibah’ = My delight is in her. ‘Beulah’ = married. Isaiah 49:18

The Lord’s people, Christian Israelites from every race, nation and language, will be gathered and settled into their heritage, all of the holy Land, in the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 66:18b-21
Wonderful promises to them of fertility and wealth. They will live in justice, peace and security, as He intended people to be.


Isaiah 62:6-7 Jerusalem, on your walls, I have posted watchmen, they will call out: You that invoke the Name of the Lord, do not rest and give no rest to the Lord until He makes Jerusalem a praise throughout the world.

The Hebrew word for ‘watchmen’, is ‘natzar’, the root word for Nazarene; literally all Christian believers. WE must not rest or let the Lord forget His faithful people and His Land. Keep praying for our redemption and restoration. Ezekiel 36:24-28, Isaiah 52:7-9

Isaiah 62:8-9 The Lord has sworn to never again allow foreigners to take the produce of the Land, but you who give praises to Him will eat the grain and drink the wine, within My sacred courts.

After the great clearance in the Middle East, only His true believers and Commandment keeping people will be allowed to live there, those who love the Lord and obey Him. Isaiah 66:20-21, Ezekiel 20:38, Jeremiah 12:14-16 says that the Jews will only be allowed back if they become Christians.

Isaiah 62:10-11 Pass through the gates – clear a road for My people. Build a highway, remove the rocks and make a signal to guide the people. Proclaim to the ends of the earth, say to the offspring of Zion: See your deliverance comes, His reward is with Him and He will make recompense.

The great gathering of the Lord’s people – the second Exodus, will happen in the same manner as the first Exodus. Leaders [shepherds] will arise to guide the flock, in the spirit of Moses and Elijah. Jeremiah 3:14-15, Isaiah 58:11, Isaiah 43:5-7, Micah 4:6, Isaiah 49:9-13, Isaiah 51:3, Zechariah 8:11-12, Isaiah 40:1-5, Ezekiel 11:17

Isaiah 62:12 They will be called ‘The Holy people, the Redeemed of God’ and Jerusalem will be called ‘sought after, the City no longer forsaken’. Romans 9:24-26...we Christians will be called the children of the Living God.

The Lord’s faithful Christian people: living in the Holy Land of Beulah, as He intends them to live, being a ‘light to the nations’ and witnesses to His salvation. They will send out 144,000 missionaries to every people group, to preach the good news of the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19, 1 Peter 2:9-10, Acts 2:39, Jeremiah 31:23-34

Joel 2:23-27 People of Zion, rejoice – your God will recompense you for the years that others have ravaged your Land. You will again have plenty in your own Land. Then you will know that I am present in Israel and that I and no other am your God. We will know the Lord is present by His deeds. Just as it was at the Exodus. Must be before the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign.

Your verse are about the nation of Israel, not about the church.

You believe in replacement theology.

 

[Keraz]

Your verse are about the nation of Israel, not about the church.

You fail to understand how every born again Christian, Jew and Gentile, are now the Israelites of God, His Overcomers and Hiss Victorious ones. This is the main premise of the New Testament.
It is your belief in the false 'rapture to heaven' theory, that clouds your thinking. Many scriptures say how we Christians are the inheritors of the Promises of God. 2 Corinthians 1:20

 

[CoreIssue]

You fail to understand how every born again Christian, Jew and Gentile, are now the Israelites of God, His Overcomers and Hiss Victorious ones. This is the main premise of the New Testament.
It is your belief in the false 'rapture to heaven' theory, that clouds your thinking. Many scriptures say how we Christians are the inheritors of the Promises of God. 2 Corinthians 1:20

You fail to understand you are totally wrong.

 

[marks]

You fail to understand how every born again Christian, Jew and Gentile, are now the Israelites of God, His Overcomers and Hiss Victorious ones. This is the main premise of the New Testament.
It is your belief in the false 'rapture to heaven' theory, that clouds your thinking. Many scriptures say how we Christians are the inheritors of the Promises of God. 2 Corinthians 1:20

Hi Keraz,

Is there a Scripture that tells us that Gentiles inherit the land promise? If the land was allotted by tribe and by family, where are the gentiles?

Much love!
mark

 

[Keraz]

Hi Keraz,

Is there a Scripture that tells us that Gentiles inherit the land promise? If the land was allotted by tribe and by family, where are the gentiles?

Much love!
mark

There is plenty of prophecy that says it will be the Lord's faithful, righteous people who will inherit all of the holy Land. Psalms 37:29, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26, +
Those prophesies that do seem to apply to an ethnic Israel, are superseded by the Advent of Jesus, who extended Salvation to all who will accept it.

Who are the Lord's chosen people today? John 15:14-16, 1 Peter 2:9-10, every born again Christian from every race, nation and language.
When we gather in Jerusalem, Revelation 7:9, soon after the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath has cleared and cleansed the entire Middle East area, the Lord will stand on Mt Zion and divide His people into 12 divisions according to their family attributes. Isaiah 66:21, Revelation 5:9-10 He will select 12,000 people from each division; called by the names of the 12 sons of Jacob, who have never defiled themselves spiritually, to proclaim the Gospel of the coming Kingdom to every people group on earth.
THAT is our destiny and our great privilege!

 

[marks]

There is plenty of prophecy that says it will be the Lord's faithful, righteous people who will inherit all of the holy Land. Psalms 37:29, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26, +
Those prophesies that do seem to apply to an ethnic Israel, are superseded by the Advent of Jesus, who extended Salvation to all who will accept it.

Who are the Lord's chosen people today? John 15:14-16, 1 Peter 2:9-10, every born again Christian from every race, nation and language.
When we gather in Jerusalem, Revelation 7:9, soon after the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath has cleared and cleansed the entire Middle East area, the Lord will stand on Mt Zion and divide His people into 12 divisions according to their family attributes. Isaiah 66:21, Revelation 5:9-10 He will select 12,000 people from each division; called by the names of the 12 sons of Jacob, who have never defiled themselves spiritually, to proclaim the Gospel of the coming Kingdom to every people group on earth.
THAT is our destiny and our great privilege!

hi Keraz,

This is what makes these forums so interesting to me! Such very different viewpoints on the Scriptures!

Myself, when the prophecies speak of the ethnic Israel, I leave it that way.

I have some other thoughts on these things, but I don't want to derail the thread. But it's really interesting to see where you end up at very different conclusions from me on these things.

Much love!
Mark