The Body of Christ vs. The Bride of Christ (pt. 1)

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mjrhealth

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Where was I sarcastic? I quoted known facts.

The error that most make, is in assigning the prophesies for Israel to the Jewish State of Israel. The Bible prophets always carefully separate Judah and Israel and they remain separate today. Judah, the Jewish people, who wrongly call their country Israel, have many specific prophesies of how God will deal with them in these end times.
But Israel is different, one of the best examples of what the Lord will do to each is in Amos 2:4-5; for Judah and Amos 2:6-16 for Israel. Also Jeremiah 19:10-12 and Jeremiah 18:6; Judah smashed beyond repair and Israel remoulded.


So the question is: Who is the true Israel? We know the answer; it is every born again Christian, the Lord's chosen people, 1 Peter 2:9-10, and those bought by His blood, Revelation 5:9-10.
THEY are the faithful Israel of God, Galatians 6:14-16, His Overcomers, literally: true Israelites.
With that truth in mind, the prophesies make sense and we can know our destiny; how the Lord promises to save and Bless all who put their trust in Him. Jeremiah 17:7-8 Jew and Gentile.

The idea that the Jewish people still have God's favour, is sadly mistaken. They have had nearly 2000 years of God's grace for them to accept their Messiah. This has not and will not happen, as Jesus knew they wouldn't. That is why He said that He would save the lost House of Israel. the other ten tribes, still in exile, who have largely accepted Jesus and are now His Overcomers, the genuine Israelites of God.

The true Israelites of God are every faithful Christian, from every tribe, race, nation and language. That is how it has been from the beginning; the congregation, the ekkelasia; the church of faithful believers, from Abel, to Elijah's 7000, to the few survivors after 40 years in the desert, to the Pilgrim Fathers, to all of today’s born again Christian believers. People from every tribe, race, nation and language, the inheritors of all the Promises of God. 1 Corinthians 1:20, Romans 8:16-18, Ephesians 1:10-14, Ephesians 3:6, Galatians 3:26-29, +
Not mistaken, Israel was given to the Jews( 12tribes) by God, they are, and will always be His chosen people, Remember the Fig tree. Israels has blossomed and now teh end is nigh.
 
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Keraz

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Not mistaken, Israel was given to the Jews( 12tribes) by God, they are, and will always be His chosen people, Remember the Fig tree. Israels has blossomed and now teh end is nigh.
Yes I know the fig tree. Jesus cursed it and said it would never bear fruit again, Matthew 21:19 Then He gave the parable of the vineyard and finished by saying: Therefore I tell you, the Kingdom of God is taken away from you, Jews and given to a people who will bear the proper fruit.
We Christians are the fruit bearers. Galatians 5:22 His Chosen people; John 15:14-16, 1 Peter 2:9-10, +
 

Jay Ross

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Yes I know the fig tree. Jesus cursed it and said it would never bear fruit again, Matthew 21:19 Then He gave the parable of the vineyard and finished by saying: Therefore I tell you, the Kingdom of God is taken away from you, Jews and given to a people who will bear the proper fruit.
We Christians are the fruit bearers. Galatians 5:22 His Chosen people; John 15:14-16, 1 Peter 2:9-10, +

Yes, but Jesus also told the parable of the man who planted a fig tree and as the seasons came to past the owner of the fig tree came and inspected the tree for fruit, but after three seasons, i.e. ages, he asked for the fig tree to be destroyed, but the man who was tending the fig tree requested that the owner allow
another
season to pass so that the man tending the fig tree could add fertilise and water the fig tree to see if it would produce any fruit and if it did not after the fourth season produce any fruit, that the fig tree could then be destroyed.

The end of the fourth season for the planted fig tree has not run its full course yet before the Fig tree will be inspected for fruit.

It is during the fifth season that God will gather his sheep, i.e. the descendants of Israel, to himself from all of the places where they are found in the whole earth and He will plant them in a field/soil where He finds them, to teach them about the Mountain of Israel. God has also promised that He will make like new again His original covenant that He had entered into with the House of Israel at Mt Sinai, and against which they had rebelled, for Israel to become a Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His possession among the Nations.

As such, to understand that the cursed fig tree by Jesus would never bear again bear fruit again is flawed. When we look at the original Greek text, Jesus actually stated that the withered fig tree would not bear any fruit for two ages from the time of His cursing the fig tree and that when the fig tree begins to bud leaves, that the end of the end of the period of two ages that the fig tree would be cursed to not bear any fruit would come to an end and that this would be a sign that around 91 years later, the present age would end and herald in the establishment of the Everlasting Kingdom of God during the time of the Kings of the fifth segment of the Daniel 2 statue prophecy.

It is my humble opinion that your understanding does not line up with God's End Time Prophecies.

Shalom
 
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mjrhealth

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Yes, but Jesus also told the parable of the man who planted a fig tree and as the seasons came to past the owner of the fig tree came and inspected the tree for fruit, but after three seasons, i.e. ages, he asked for the fig tree to be destroyed, but the man who was tending the fig tree requested that the owner allow
another
season to pass so that the man tending the fig tree could add fertilise and water the fig tree to see if it would produce any fruit and if it did not after the fourth season produce any fruit, that the fig tree could then be destroyed.

The end of the fourth season for the planted fig tree has not run its full course yet before the Fig tree will be inspected for fruit.

It is during the fifth season that God will gather his sheep, i.e. the descendants of Israel, to himself from all of the places where they are found in the whole earth and He will plant them in a field/soil where He finds them, to teach them about the Mountain of Israel. God has also promised that He will make like new again His original covenant that He had entered into with the House of Israel at Mt Sinai, and against which they had rebelled, for Israel to become a Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His possession among the Nations.

As such, to understand that the cursed fig tree by Jesus would never bear again bear fruit again is flawed. When we look at the original Greek text, Jesus actually stated that the withered fig tree would not bear any fruit for two ages from the time of His cursing the fig tree and that when the fig tree begins to bud leaves, that the end of the end of the period of two ages that the fig tree would be cursed to not bear any fruit would come to an end and that this would be a sign that around 91 years later, the present age would end and herald in the establishment of the Everlasting Kingdom of God during the time of the Kings of the fifth segment of the Daniel 2 statue prophecy.

It is my humble opinion that your understanding does not line up with God's End Time Prophecies.

Shalom
Amen Its funny in these times as the end draws nigh more and more christians are standing against Israel,
 

Keraz

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Amen Its funny in these times as the end draws nigh more and more christians are standing against Israel,
I do NOT stand against the Jewish State of Israel, if that is who you mean.
I have been to Israel and worked among the Christian community there. But the sad fact is that the Jews simply do not want to hear the Gospel.
My wish is for all to come into Christianity, unfortunately we know that many, probably most people never will accept Jesus.

What I do stand against is the unscriptural beliefs of many; that the Jews will be on earth, under tribulation, while the Church goes to heaven. This fable has been taught by the 'wolves in the flock' and has fooled a lot of Christians.
another
season to pass so that the man tending the fig tree could add fertilise and water the fig tree to see if it would produce any fruit and if it did not after the fourth season produce any fruit, that the fig tree could then be destroyed.
Do you think that 2000 years constitutes a 'season'?
The Jews have had that time and far from turning to God, they never acknowledge Him in their wars and their lifestyles leave much to be desired. As for producing the fruit of the Spirit; in no way do they do that.
There is ample prophecy that tells us they will be destroyed and only a remnant, of Messianic Jews will survive.
 
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mjrhealth

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I do NOT stand against the Jewish State of Israel, if that is who you mean.
I have been to Israel and worked among the Christian community there. But the sad fact is that the Jews simply do not want to hear the Gospel.
My wish is for all to come into Christianity, unfortunately we know that many, probably most people never will accept Jesus.

Do you think that 2000 years constitutes a 'season'?
The Jews have had that time and far from turning to God, they never acknowledge Him in their wars and their lifestyles leave much to be desired.
There is ample prophecy that tells us they will be destroyed and only a remnant, of Messianic Jews will survive.
God does all in His time, there is a nice video on youtube, that speaks about those who cursed Israel and what came of them. You should find it great story.

Deu 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
Deu 30:2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
Deu 30:3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
Deu 30:4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
Deu 30:5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Deu 30:7 And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
Deu 30:8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
 

Keraz

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God does all in His time, there is a nice video on youtube, that speaks about those who cursed Israel and what came of them. You should find it great story.
Your disgusting accusations against me, reflect badly on yourself.
Get this; it is God who will Judge and punish Jewish Israel for their many sins:
Jeremiah 11:15-16 What right have My people to live in My holy Land with their shameless ways? Nothing they can do now will ward off the disaster, that with a great roaring noise will burn and consume them.

Amos 2:4-5 For crime after crime of Judah, I shall grant them no reprieve...therefore I shall send fire upon Judah....


Jeremiah 22:6-7 The Lord says about the Royal House of Judah: Though you are dear to Me, I swear that I shall turn your Land into a desert, a Land of towns no longer inhabited. A destructive force will come upon you and burn your dwellings.

Isaiah 28:22b...for I have heard that destruction is decreed upon the whole Land.

Ezekiel 20:47...I am about to kindle a fire...all the Land will be scorched by it.

Jeremiah 7:32-34 The time is coming when the dead will fill the valley of Topeth [beside Jerusalem] and the whole Land will become like a desert. Jer. 19:11

Jeremiah 5:8 & 12 I shall raise My hand against all the inhabitants of the Land and leave you devastated, a land without inhabitants.

Jeremiah 12:14 The Lord says: I shall uproot the evil neighbours who have encroached onto My peoples Land. Also I shall uproot Judah from among them.

Jeremiah 10:18 & 22 The Lord says: This time I shall throw out the whole population of the Land, I shall press them and squeeze them dry. Listen; a devouring horde comes to make Judah’s cities utterly desolate.

Jeremiah 8:16 The Destroyer approaches and the whole Land trembles – it comes and consumes everything; crops, trees, city and citizens alike.

Isaiah 24:18b-19 The earth’s foundations shake when the window of heaven is opened, the earth is struck and it staggers and reels wildly.

Jeremiah 4:7 The Destroyer of nations has come out from his lair to devastate your Land and make your cities waste and empty. In an instant, the whole Land crashes down in ruin. I looked and there was no one, even the birds have gone.

Joel 1:15-20 The Day of the Lord comes, a terrible destruction from the Almighty, all food is destroyed and fire has consumed the pastures and trees.

Zephaniah 1:18 On the Day of the Lord’s wrath, by the fire of His jealousy the whole Land will be consumed, for He will make a sudden and terrible end to all who live in the Land.

Micah 1:6 I shall reduce Samaria to a ruin...I will level the hills and valleys.

Jeremiah 25:33-38 The Lord is ravaging the shepherd’s pastures and their homes are ruined beneath the Lord’s fierce anger. The Land becomes a waste under the sword of the Destroyer and those whom the Lord kills on that Day, will be scattered from one end of the earth to the other, neither mourned or buried.

Micah 5:11 I shall devastate the cities of your Land and destroy your military power.

Jeremiah 9:10-11 & 21-22 I will chant a funeral dirge over the Land when I make Jerusalem a heap of ruins and the towns of Judah uninhabited. Death will enter your houses and will kill anyone in the streets. Corpses will lie like dung, like swaths behind the reaper, with no one left to gather them.

Hosea 4:3 The Land will become desolate, all that lives in it will be wasted, even the wild animals, birds and fishes will vanish.

Isaiah 64:10-11 Zion becomes a desert, the holy cities desolate, all that we cherished lies in ruins, burned to the ground.

Jeremiah 4:26 The fertile Land has become desolate, its towns all razed to the ground before the fierce anger of the Lord.

Isaiah 33:8a The roads are deserted, no one travels anywhere. The Land is parched and dry, stripped bare, like a desert.

Isaiah 24:10 The city is shattered and in chaos, every house is barred and shuttered.

Isaiah 32:14 Houses are empty, the crowded streets are deserted and the military areas are turned into open fields.

Jeremiah 12:4 & 10-13 How long must the Land lie parched, its grass withered? No birds or beasts are left, because God has judged the wicked inhabitants, they said: God does not see what we are doing. Therefore a Sword from the Lord has devoured the Land from end to end and now it’s all a desolate wilderness. Ref: REB. Some verses abridged.
 

mjrhealth

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Yes fight God all you like wont change His relationship with Israel.

Oh and if you bother to look at Israel now, It provides water to other countries, its fields are green, it has gas and oil, apparently more oil than they thought which is upsetting the russians, teh fig tree has blossomed, now the end can come.
 

Jay Ross

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Do you think that 2000 years constitutes a 'season'?
The Jews have had that time and far from turning to God, they never acknowledge Him in their wars and their lifestyles leave much to be desired. As for producing the fruit of the Spirit; in no way do they do that.
There is ample prophecy that tells us they will be destroyed and only a remnant, of Messianic Jews will survive.

The time of the visitation of the fathers' iniquities upon the nation of Israel is presently drawing to a close after the two ages of the visitation is complete.

The time of the heathen gentiles trampling the sanctuary of God for 2,300 years is also drawing to the fullness of the allocated time and will be completed in out near future, i.e. in around 25 years time, after which, as Paul writes, all of Israel will be saved. Did not Jesus tell us, as recorded in the gospels, that when the fig tree begins to bud leaves that the beginning of the summer season would begin. Did not Jesus tell us in Luke 14 that the Jews would not have the means to complete building a new temple and that there will be a time of "war" when Jesus, a king in His own right, will be seen fighting the nations assembled near Jerusalem at Armageddon, and that they the Israelites will after considering whether or not they could defeat the King making war against the other nations, seek this kings terms of peace.

One of the terms of this peace with the Kings will be that they repent of their idolatrous worship and turn once more to the Lord as their God. The "but if" clauses of Deuteronomy will then come into play for all of the people of the nation of Israel.

But all that I am doing is repeating myself. The Levites understood Jesus when He said that the Priesthood, that they had enjoyed since the rebellion against God's covenant of the Covenant of a Kingdom of priests, a Holy Nation and His possession among the people by Israel at Mt Sinai, would be taken from them and given to another people, that is all of Israel because of their abuse of the Priesthood by the Levites at the time of Jesus' first advent. In Ezekiel 34, God will come against the fat sheep, the shepherds of the flock because they have muddied the waters and trampled down the grass on which the flock feed and in effect left the flock unfed, lean from hunger. Perhaps the priests during Jesus' first advent were remembering this passage but they fought against having the priesthood away from them but in reality cause the temple to be destroyed.

Now, in the Book of Revelation in chapter 7, is not 144,000 Israelites sealed by the angel of God, who are the servants of God, from each of the twelve tribes of Israel? Is this the remanent that you are speaking of? But the chapter also speaks of a great multitude of people gathered out of the great tribulation who will be worshipping God before the four angels are released once more for a little while.

You seem to me to have a very different understanding to the end time prophecies that God has had recorded for us to read and understand.

Shalom
 

Keraz

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You seem to me to have a very different understanding to the end time prophecies that God has had recorded for us to read and understand.
My understanding is solidly based on the Prophetic Word.
It is Church teachings that wildly differ from what the Bible says. Plainly shown by the almost total lack of consensus among so called Bible scholars.

What is needed, is for people to consider what it is that God always wanted and will achieve eventually. Likely in our generation.
It is to have a people in the holy Land, who will be His witnesses and His Light to the nations, upon whom He will pour out His Spirit and Blessings.
THAT is our destiny as faithful Christians, look forward to it!
 

Jay Ross

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My understanding is solidly based on the Prophetic Word.
It is Church teachings that wildly differ from what the Bible says. Plainly shown by the almost total lack of consensus among so called Bible scholars.

What is needed, is for people to consider what it is that God always wanted and will achieve eventually. Likely in our generation.
It is to have a people in the holy Land, who will be His witnesses and His Light to the nations, upon whom He will pour out His Spirit and Blessings.
THAT is our destiny as faithful Christians, look forward to it!

That is your understanding and opinion of what is going to happen in the end times, however, in my view your position does not reflect what God has prophesied in the scripture as to what will happen.
 

Mike Waters

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I realise that this thread died away a year ago but , being 'new', I have only just discovered it. and am much taken by the vast range of divergent scripture based opinion re the OP, that the forum possesses.
But this is just a small example of the vastness of divergent scripture based opinion that underpins (should I say 'undermines'?) the entire denominational division of Christendom.
At one point in the thread my 'soul' was crying out to interpose my own thoughts, and it was at that point that I began to think how futile it would have been to have done so had I been around at the time.
Does that render what I would have posted as being of no value?
I hope not, and I cling to my overriding ethos, that so much 'truth' is personally relevant rather than universally absolute.
And that puts me very much alongside mjrhealth as to paying more attention to what it is that God's Holy Spirit might have planted into the "fleshy table of my heart" (even though it might have derived from reading the Bible), as distinct from posting it on the basis of 'Thus saith the verbally inerrant Word of God Universally'.
(After all the same scripture could well be planted with a different meaning, into the fleshy table of another believer's heart)
Does anybody understand what I mean?
 
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Base12

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I realise that this thread died away a year ago but , being 'new', I have only just discovered it. and am much taken by the vast range of divergent scripture based opinion re the OP, that the forum possesses.
Glad you bumped it. I find it very inspiring and informative.
 

Base12

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We don't become one flesh, we unite as cells in a body unite and we divide and multiply through sharing the gospel.
This is close to the answer.

Think DNA within a Cell. Each Nucleobase (A,C,G,T) is a Church Member connected one to another to form the RNA Strand. Christ being the Chief Nucleobase... the Word of God.

The 'Marriage' is the joining of the strands. The Blood of Christ is the DNA 'Template' we are grafted into. This is the moment of Conception.

After this, then the Word of God can divide and multiply and grow.
 

Base12

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Thank you for validating that the "marriage" is a metaphor, not a reality as many think.
It may not be as Metaphoric as One may think. Where is the line drawn between Metaphor and Reality? I will let you folks decide on the following...

The answer to this Mystery is quite simple. Unfortunately, the answer is also censored. I have personally been banned many times for trying to disclose it. Will this forum allow it? Let's see. I will be very blunt about it.

New Jerusalem is representative of the Womb of Sarah who is the Mother of us all...

Galatians 4:26
"But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all"


Sarah is also the Bride...

Revelation 21:2
"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband"


Who is Sarah's Husband? Abraham of course. Abraham represents God the Father.

Now here's the tricky part...

The 'Gates' of New Jerusalem represent the 'Mouth of the Womb'. It is the opposite of the 'Gates of Hell'...

Proverbs 30:16 (Douay-Rheims Bible)
"Hell, and the mouth of the womb, and the earth which is not satisfied with water: and the fire never saith: It is enough"


Those that enter the Gates of New Jerusalem are representative of Spiritual Seed entering the Womb to become Born Again...

Revelation 22:14
"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city"


The Tree of Life represents the Ovary inside the Womb of Sarah. Those that partake of Her 'Fruit' become one with the Ovum. Think of a Spirit entering into the egg during conception.

We now have half of the equation set up. Half of the Mystery is solved. The 'Brides' are ready for the 'Marriage'. Get it?

All we need now is the other half. The Male Seed if you will...

Revelation 22:1
"And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb"


The Bible has a way of describing explicit content in a 'G-Rated' manner. Why? Because Children are reading.

It's up to you folks to be grown-ups and 'read between the lines' at what is being taught here. Hopefully I don't have to explain what the 'Water of Life' is coming out the Throne that is fertilizing the Tree of Life and the Ovum Fruit.

So there you have it. Bride meets Groom and Conception takes place. We are Born Again.

We become Abraham and Sarah's Children literally according to the Promise...

Galatians 3:29
"And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise"


This is what is meant by being 'grafted in'. Grafted into the RNA Strand of the Blood of Christ...

Romans 11:23
"And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again"


We are talking Heavenly Gene Splicing here. Two strands becoming One.

As a side note, the opposite happened in the Garden of Eden. The Forbidden Fruit was in the Womb of the Harlot... our 'Earthly Mother'...

Revelation 17:5
"And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH"


The Human Race are the Harlots and Abominations. Those that have humbled themselves will discover this Great Truth. We all arrived on this planet by partaking of the Forbidden Fruit as well. Our Earthly Father is the Devil. It's all literal BTW.

We need a new Mother. We need a new Father.

Amen.