The Body of Christ vs. The Bride of Christ (pt. 1)

[CoreIssue]

I suggest it may have been the other way around. We see things here on earth echoing heavenly realitites and truths, not the other way around. Wouldn't you agree?

I think echoing is the wrong word. They are models of heavenly realities using earthly concepts, etc., that we can comprehend and absorb.

 

[CoreIssue]

Perhaps, because I'm a male of the species, I've always been uncomfortable with the description of the church as the Bride of Christ. As I've listened to various pre-trib preachers use the constant references of us as the bride of Christ, the discomfort has increased as I've sensed that this isn't just a "guy thing", I believe it is a misunderstanding derived from erroneous biblical interpretations. Some of the arguments they give for keeping the church out of the 70th week contrary to what the bible teaches is that "no bridegroom would make his bride suffer that way", or "we need to be in heaven for the marriage banquet during the seven years of Daniel's 70th week". They've even "made up" and embellished Jewish wedding customs that have no historical validity, to support what they teach. For example, there is no support for the bridegroom "kidnapping" his bride a week before the wedding. A term Zola Levitt has used to equate that with the rapture. Another pre-trib believer, Greg Killan, has written that John 14:2-3 was spoken to the bride by the groom as he left to prepare for the wedding. Again, there is no written historical documentation to support this. I've also heard it taught that Israel is the bride of Father God and the church is the bride of His Son, Jesus. The former has some scriptural support but the latter is not clearly stated in the bible. I believe that if the church was to be his bride then He would have clearly stated that fact somewhere in His teachings. I think it's important that it isn't there.

Dispensationalism is a doctrine of separation and God through Jesus is the author of unity. I consider myself sort of a quasi-dispensationalist. By that I mean, I recognize that Israel has a few future physical promises yet to come that will find their fulfillment in the millennium but all spiritual promises have found their completion and fulfillment through the church, which as you know, was basically just Jewish in origin for the first several years before Paul started preaching to the gentiles. Any doctrine that eternally separates the church from Israel should be considered false and subject to intense scrutiny.

Before we get into the NT teachings let's take a quick review of what the OT has to say on this subject. Jer. 3:14 - "Return, faithless people," declares the Lord, "for I am your husband. I will choose you—one from a town and two from a clan—and bring you to Zion. I believe this prophecy, which is the Lord speaking to the Jews is fulfilled in Rev. 14:1 - Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. Is.62 is speaking about the new name of Zion. Vs. 5 states - As a young man marries a maiden, so will your sons marry you; as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you. The virgin sons of Israel will marry Zion and/or the King of Zion who is Jesus Christ! (Rev.14:4). Jer. 14:18 tells us that Judah will unite (marry?) Israel. Jesus is also called the Lion of the tribe of Judah.

This may surprise some of you but nowhere in the bible is the term, "the bride of Christ" used, however, the "body of Christ" referring to the church is used twice by Paul, once in 1 Cor. 12:27 and again in Eph. 4:12 and inferred in a few more places. Well then, where did this idea come from? Some have used the parable of the ten virgins as support but this really isn't logical once you dissect the passage. Matt. 25: 1-13 - "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep. 6"At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!' 7"Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.' 9" 'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.' 10"But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. 11"Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!' 12"But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.' 13"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

I can't argue the fact that Christ is sometimes pictured as a bridegroom but that doesn't automatically translate into the church being the bride. In this parable, believers or the church would equate to the ten virgins, a bride isn't mentioned at all although it could be implied that the ten virgins were keeping her company. This parable also doesn't support the theory of imminence, but it does warn of preparation, readiness and what might happen to those who fail to watch. A couple of other things can be assumed by this passage, one is that they knew what exact day the wedding would be. They were at their posts, but the bridegroom was delayed. There is historical documentation that typically the bridegroom would arrive at 11:30 pm to pick up his bride and guests then they would proceed to the bridegroom's father's house for the midnight ceremony. Here, the bridegroom was delayed and the announcement didn't come until midnight. That is why the virgins fell asleep. They didn't know how long the delay would be. I think this fits a pre-wrath scenario quite nicely.

Marriage Super of the Lamb

 

[farouk]

I think that the very fact that the Church began with mainly Jewish believers tells us that 'the church' in the NT, and now, is but a continuation of the 'elect'...those true believers of Israel (those who were of faith, like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and David). Gentiles have not displaced or taken over Israel, but entered into that which God truly intended for Israel to be, within the bounds of his new covenant, which he preached beforehand via the prophets. Paul spends a great deal of time breaking down the notion that there can be two peoples of God. It must be, he argues, that in Christ (the only way to God) there are only one people...true Israel, the Church. The Church started with the Apostles...Jews. It spread to Jews...was spread BY the Jews until the Church came TO the Gentiles. To say that Israel and the Church are separate is to miss most of what Paul, and Peter are saying.

...but this does not take into account of Pentecost, where the church began.

 

[Naomi25]

Only in the context of the Church, which will have a finite number of Gentiles -- *the fulness of the Gentiles*.

After that God will redeem and restore Israel according to what Paul says (along with all the prophets). Kindly pay close attention to the words of Paul:

ROMANS 11 (FUTURE REDEMPTION OF ISRAEL)
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Both Israel and the Church will be within the Kingdom of God, which means that all will be people of God. But the eternal destiny of the Church is in the New Jerusalem, whereas that of Israel is on earth.

I don't dispute this. But HOW are these Jews going to be bought to God once the "fullness of the Gentiles" is bought in?
Because, if the answer (as it must be), is that they are bought to Christ...made part of his body by believing in his sacrifice for their sins...then they are becoming part of the Church. This is less about names and more about WHAT the Church is, although both cases are sound. But regardless, IF a person comes to right relationship with God through Christ Jesus, then that person is a member of the Church, whom Jesus said he would build. Which began with Jewish people, to prove it wasn't just a Gentile institution, therefore there are separate peoples.
That together with everything Paul says...with everything that we must consider about what a Christian IS, can lead us nowhere but the conclusion that IN Christ, there is but one people.

 

[CoreIssue]

I don't dispute this. But HOW are these Jews going to be bought to God once the "fullness of the Gentiles" is bought in?
Because, if the answer (as it must be), is that they are bought to Christ...made part of his body by believing in his sacrifice for their sins...then they are becoming part of the Church. This is less about names and more about WHAT the Church is, although both cases are sound. But regardless, IF a person comes to right relationship with God through Christ Jesus, then that person is a member of the Church, whom Jesus said he would build. Which began with Jewish people, to prove it wasn't just a Gentile institution, therefore there are separate peoples.
That together with everything Paul says...with everything that we must consider about what a Christian IS, can lead us nowhere but the conclusion that IN Christ, there is but one people.

The answer is simple. The church is rapture, the Tribulation Period kills two thirds of the Jews, the second coming happens and the Jews see Christ descending with the army from heaven who wipes out their enemies.

That fulfills the conquering King and Messiah that they have been waiting for. And the circumstances are so phenomenal they accept him and all Israel is thus saved.

 

[Naomi25]

I think echoing is the wrong word. They are models of heavenly realities using earthly concepts, etc., that we can comprehend and absorb.

I'm not sure how it can be wrong, per se, although I dare say it's not a complete description. If something here echos heavenly realities, does that not mean it parallels such things? It is the replicate, the imitation of the original. How is that different than it being a model, which is just a replicate of the original?

 

[Naomi25]

...but this does not take into account of Pentecost, where the church began.

No...it absolutely takes it into account. Who preached the first sermon on Pentecost? Let's call him the first Pastor. Peter. A Jew. Who were the first listeners who converted? The bible lists them as "Jews, devout men dwelling in Jerusalem, from every nation under heaven". The Apostles became the leaders of the fledgling Church, clearly the leaders that everyone looked to as an authority; even Paul...again, a Jew.
After Stephen is martyred and the Church flees Jerusalem, we then see Gentiles begin to come in, but there are still large numbers of Jews within the Church...these are Jewish towns that they fled to. Paul always would go to synagogues first to preach. And the fact that there was tension between the Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians (the circumcision and uncircumcision, as Paul would often call them), shows that both existed within the Church.

If you suggest that these two 'entities' cannot be one because the 'Church' clearly began on the day of Pentecost, then I invite you to look to Paul, who tracks the promise from Abraham to the Church. The new covenant might have given it a new name, but Paul is most clear...what was Promised to Abraham and his 'children of promise' in the OT, is now ours in the NT, as we are, in Christ, 'children of promise'...one and the same.

This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. -Romans 9:8

Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. -Galatians 4:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. -Galatians 3:28–29

 

[Naomi25]

The answer is simple. The church is rapture, the Tribulation Period kills two thirds of the Jews, the second coming happens and the Jews see Christ descending with the army from heaven who wipes out their enemies.

That fulfills the conquering King and Messiah that they have been waiting for. And the circumstances are so phenomenal they accept him and all Israel is thus saved.

No. Sorry. That's what your doctrine says. But it is not what scripture says. If Scripture said that, you would have provided biblical proof by now. You have't, therefore you can't.

The bible is clear on the matter. To come to God you have to come to Christ. He is the only way to be in a right relationship to God.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. -John 14:6

What is the Church? The body of Christ? What makes a Christian?

And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. -1 Corinthians 6:11

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. -John 3:16–18

But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. -Titus 3:4–7

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” -Romans 10:12–13


These verses tell us clearly: everyone who comes before Christ recognising they are a sinner in need of grace (calling upon the name of the Lord), are then washed by his blood and believes on his name, have eternal life in Jesus Christ.

Where in scripture is there ANY kind of indication that the process is different for Jews at a "special" time? There is none. They too must come before their true Messiah in repentance and belief....just as many Jews are doing now. And what happens when they do it now? They are then part of the Church.
The only place we find this separation, is in Dispensational doctrine, not scripture.

 

[Enoch111]

The bible is clear on the matter. To come to God you have to come to Christ. He is the only way to be in a right relationship to God.

And what do you think will happen when Jews come to Christ after His second coming and are born again? Will they not come to both God and Christ? The believing remnant of Israel will be redeemed, just as sinners are redeemed today under the New Covenant.

 

[n2thelight]

The answer is simple. The church is rapture, the Tribulation Period kills two thirds of the Jews, the second coming happens and the Jews see Christ descending with the army from heaven who wipes out their enemies.

That fulfills the conquering King and Messiah that they have been waiting for. And the circumstances are so phenomenal they accept him and all Israel is thus saved.

This can't be true,as we walk by faith,in other words Jew's nor anyone else will be saved just because.

There are two tree's,you belong to one of them,Tree of life which is Christ or the tree of good and evil whom is satan,can't understand how and why people think the Jew's will be automatically saved,if one does not believe in Christ they are cut off from,His(Christ)tree and grafted on to the other.

If one turned from the tree of evil and believes in Christ,they are grafted unto His tree,if one turns from Christ,they are grafted to the other tree,whom is satan.

 

[Trekson]

Marriage Super of the Lamb

I thought it interesting that the article didn't use any of the marriage parables of Christ. How do you think the marriage situation with Jacob, Leah and Rachel would fit into this scenario?

 

[CoreIssue]

I'm not sure how it can be wrong, per se, although I dare say it's not a complete description. If something here echos heavenly realities, does that not mean it parallels such things? It is the replicate, the imitation of the original. How is that different than it being a model, which is just a replicate of the original?

A model does not replicate.

 

[CoreIssue]

No. Sorry. That's what your doctrine says. But it is not what scripture says. If Scripture said that, you would have provided biblical proof by now. You have't, therefore you can't.

The bible is clear on the matter. To come to God you have to come to Christ. He is the only way to be in a right relationship to God.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. -John 14:6

What is the Church? The body of Christ? What makes a Christian?

And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. -1 Corinthians 6:11

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. -John 3:16–18

But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. -Titus 3:4–7

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” -Romans 10:12–13


These verses tell us clearly: everyone who comes before Christ recognising they are a sinner in need of grace (calling upon the name of the Lord), are then washed by his blood and believes on his name, have eternal life in Jesus Christ.

Where in scripture is there ANY kind of indication that the process is different for Jews at a "special" time? There is none. They too must come before their true Messiah in repentance and belief....just as many Jews are doing now. And what happens when they do it now? They are then part of the Church.
The only place we find this separation, is in Dispensational doctrine, not scripture.

It has been given but you reject it.

 

[CoreIssue]

This can't be true,as we walk by faith,in other words Jew's nor anyone else will be saved just because.

There are two tree's,you belong to one of them,Tree of life which is Christ or the tree of good and evil whom is satan,can't understand how and why people think the Jew's will be automatically saved,if one does not believe in Christ they are cut off from,His(Christ)tree and grafted on to the other.

If one turned from the tree of evil and believes in Christ,they are grafted unto His tree,if one turns from Christ,they are grafted to the other tree,whom is satan.

Your tree claims are not biblical.

 

[farouk]

No...it absolutely takes it into account. Who preached the first sermon on Pentecost? Let's call him the first Pastor. Peter. A Jew. Who were the first listeners who converted? The bible lists them as "Jews, devout men dwelling in Jerusalem, from every nation under heaven". The Apostles became the leaders of the fledgling Church, clearly the leaders that everyone looked to as an authority; even Paul...again, a Jew.
After Stephen is martyred and the Church flees Jerusalem, we then see Gentiles begin to come in, but there are still large numbers of Jews within the Church...these are Jewish towns that they fled to. Paul always would go to synagogues first to preach. And the fact that there was tension between the Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians (the circumcision and uncircumcision, as Paul would often call them), shows that both existed within the Church.

If you suggest that these two 'entities' cannot be one because the 'Church' clearly began on the day of Pentecost, then I invite you to look to Paul, who tracks the promise from Abraham to the Church. The new covenant might have given it a new name, but Paul is most clear...what was Promised to Abraham and his 'children of promise' in the OT, is now ours in the NT, as we are, in Christ, 'children of promise'...one and the same.

This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. -Romans 9:8

Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. -Galatians 4:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. -Galatians 3:28–29

Tracing back in Hebrews 11 those who were justified is not the same as claiming that the church began when Old Testament saints were justified, which I do not do. The church is a mystery revealed in the New Testament as a heavenly people, as Ephesians says.

 

[CoreIssue]

I thought it interesting that the article didn't use any of the marriage parables of Christ. How do you think the marriage situation with Jacob, Leah and Rachel would fit into this scenario?

Israel did not exist in their time. Christ talked about those already married.

 

[Trekson]

Israel did not exist in their time. Christ talked about those already married.

If you look in other sites with the same topic you will see that many of the customs are first mentioned in Gen. 24, before Jacob.

 

[CoreIssue]

If you look in other sites with the same topic you will see that many of the customs are first mentioned in Gen. 24, before Jacob.

That is not true. There were no Jew at that time therefore no Jewish wedding custom.

 

[Enoch111]

I don't dispute this. But HOW are these Jews going to be bought to God once the "fullness of the Gentiles" is bought in?

Study the Old Testament and you will find out how.

ISRAEL SHALL BE REDEEMED AND RESTORED

But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. (Isa 45:17)

I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory. (Isa 46:13)

Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.(Isa 44:23)

He shall cause them that come of Jacob to take root: Israel shall blossom and bud, and fill the face of the world with fruit. (Isa 27:6)

For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody. (Isa 51:3)

And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach. In that day shall the branch of the LORD [CHRIST] be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel. And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem: When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning. And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence. And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain. (Isa 4:1-6)

Is it not yet a very little while, and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field, and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest? And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness. The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel... Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale. But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel. (Isa 29:17-19; 22-23)

Then shall he give the rain of thy seed, that thou shalt sow the ground withal; and bread of the increase of the earth, and it shall be fat and plenteous: in that day shall thy cattle feed in large pastures. The oxen likewise and the young asses that ear the ground shall eat clean provender, which hath been winnowed with the shovel and with the fan. And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall. Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound. (Isa 30:23-26)

For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off. (Isa 55:12,13)

Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me. (Isa 49:22,23)

And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising… Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee… And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee. Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought... Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob... The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. (Isa 60:3,5,10,11,16, 19-21)

And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations. And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers. But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves. (Isa 61:4-6)

And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name. Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God... And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken. (Isa 62:2,3,12)

 

[Naomi25]

And what do you think will happen when Jews come to Christ after His second coming and are born again? Will they not come to both God and Christ? The believing remnant of Israel will be redeemed, just as sinners are redeemed today under the New Covenant.

I fail to see your point. My point was: there IS no difference between people coming to Christ today, and people coming to Christ 'then'. You yourself have just admitted it. And if there is no difference, then by definition we are all part of the Church, the body of Christ. This distinction Dispensationalists put up between the Church and Israel is nothing more than a doctrinal stance that they must to make a system work.