Thanks for your imput, as speaking with VJ, we all need to keep our minds, "thoughts" on JESUS. we hope that he enlighten us all.
again thanks for the imput.
PICJAG.
-
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again thanks for the imput.
PICJAG.
to all who are interested in this topic, let me make this disclamer, "I don't have all the answer of the this book". read that again, I'm not going to claim anything. but what I have been shown I will share with you all. and in return the same with you. I'm looking forward to be educated in some areas I lack in. for I know from experence no one man have all the answer. so I'm looking forward to hear from you all. hoping that we may all be edified together. hope this will be a good discussion, in Jesus Name amen.
Now my understanding on Hosea 6:2 and why I believe the Lord's return is quick. we have already touched on this.
Hosea 6:2 "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight".
The first part of the scripture is what I understood of revive, as to the "NEW BIRTH", born from above, the inward man renew by the Spirit. And “in”, not at, but in the third day, the resurrection of our bodies. Romans 8:23 "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body”.
so the FIRSTFRUIT started with the Lord Jesus, the head, and now his body, (us the church). so the two day is the two thousand years out of the Hosea 6:2 prophecy. and in the THIRD day, he returns and raises up. this is the quick return I see.
and being "signified", it's the Greek word, G4591 σημαίνω semaino (see-mai'-nō) v.
to indicate.
[from sema (a mark: of uncertain derivation)]
KJV: signify
indicate: point out; show
so right at the start of the book we are to read, and see what it point to, or indicate. so we're going to take our time and examine ever angle on each verse, so that we my get the meat of each scripture.
PICJAG.
Now my understanding on Hosea 6:2 and why I believe the Lord's return is quick. we have already touched on this.
Hosea 6:2 "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight".
The first part of the scripture is what I understood of revive, as to the "NEW BIRTH", born from above, the inward man renew by the Spirit. And “in”, not at, but in the third day, the resurrection of our bodies. Romans 8:23 "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body”.
so the FIRSTFRUIT started with the Lord Jesus, the head, and now his body, (us the church). so the two day is the two thousand years out of the Hosea 6:2 prophecy. and in the THIRD day, he returns and raises up. this is the quick return I see.
and being "signified", it's the Greek word, G4591 σημαίνω semaino (see-mai'-nō) v.
to indicate.
[from sema (a mark: of uncertain derivation)]
KJV: signify
indicate: point out; show
so right at the start of the book we are to read, and see what it point to, or indicate. so we're going to take our time and examine ever angle on each verse, so that we my get the meat of each scripture.
PICJAG.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Nancy
Well-Known Member
I have always thought that the Holy Spirit gave John the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Such an interesting book!
now you're hitting on something that's very revealing as we get into the book, especially in the 7 letters we will see some intresting things concering the Holy Spirit. (SO HOLD THAT THOUGHT).
PICJAG
Now that we have verse 1 down pretty Good. verse 2, is very intresting that might have some historical value.
Revelation 1:2 "Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw".
again we have touched on this also. John saw things of the past, present, and future.
but did anyone else pick up on what John witness to? A. the Word of God, (the Spirit, John 1:1). and B. the the testimony of Jesus Christ, (the Gospel of the Spirit), the word made flesh. also see Mark 1:1.
I know that there has been a lot of conversary over who this John is but consider (John 1:6), and this John here.
PICJAG.
Revelation 1:2 "Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw".
again we have touched on this also. John saw things of the past, present, and future.
but did anyone else pick up on what John witness to? A. the Word of God, (the Spirit, John 1:1). and B. the the testimony of Jesus Christ, (the Gospel of the Spirit), the word made flesh. also see Mark 1:1.
I know that there has been a lot of conversary over who this John is but consider (John 1:6), and this John here.
PICJAG.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Hi 101 (BTW-is the 101 pertaining to Highway 101 along the West Coast?)
Speaking of the one day is as one thousand years to Christ...what do you see when you read Matthew 24: 33-34?
"33 So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near, right at the door. 34Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.…"
What do you think of "this generation" ? Do you believe all (or some) of the things written about the end times have already come to pass when the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD?
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Just one more scripture for today and we'll get ready for tomorrow. For the revelation starts in earnest, as to the knowing of this prophecy at verse 4.
Revelation 1:3 "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand".
many christian are afraid of the book of revelation because of... Revelation 22:18 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book". adding here is to impose or force something unwelcome or unfamiliar to be accepted or put in place.
ADD: G2007 ἐπιτίθημι epitithemi (e-piy-tiy'-thee-miy) v.
to impose (in a friendly or hostile sense).
[from G1909 and G5087]
KJV: add unto, lade, lay upon, put (up) on, set on (up), + surname, X wound
so no one is forcing anything on anyone. that should take care of that.
Now the blessing to just hearing. as we discuss this book, in hearing we are blessed.
so be blessed.
PICJAG.
Revelation 1:3 "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand".
many christian are afraid of the book of revelation because of... Revelation 22:18 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book". adding here is to impose or force something unwelcome or unfamiliar to be accepted or put in place.
ADD: G2007 ἐπιτίθημι epitithemi (e-piy-tiy'-thee-miy) v.
to impose (in a friendly or hostile sense).
[from G1909 and G5087]
KJV: add unto, lade, lay upon, put (up) on, set on (up), + surname, X wound
so no one is forcing anything on anyone. that should take care of that.
Now the blessing to just hearing. as we discuss this book, in hearing we are blessed.
so be blessed.
PICJAG.
The passage of Hosea 6:2 can be linked to Exodus 20:4-6 and it contains the encouragement that after the third and the fourth "age/day of the lord" that God will raise up the nation of Israel once more and that they will live in His sight. Jeremiah 31:31ff also confirms that God will redeem Israel but after the passing of the third and the fourth "age/day of the Lord" of the existence of Israel.
So a brief history of Israel is that Isaac was born at the start of the third "age/generation/day of the Lord" and Isaac became the confirmation of the Abrahamic covenant. Then, around 621 years after the start of the third day of the Lord, 621 years after the birth of Isaac, God in the second of the Ten commandments, warned that: -
Exodus 20:1-6: - 20:1 - And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image — any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
2 "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image — any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Now there are a number of scriptural passages which foretells of the revival of the nation of Israel after the passing of two "ages/generations/days of the Lord" and to highlight another passage similar to Hosea 6:2, I would highlight Lamentations as indicative of the same message: -
Lamentations 5:19-22: -
19 You, O Lord, remain forever;
Your throne from generation to generation.
20 Why do You forget us forever,
And forsake us for so long a time?
21 Turn us back to You, O Lord, and we will be restored;
Renew our days as of old,
22 Unless You have utterly rejected us,
And are very angry with us!
Your throne from generation to generation.
20 Why do You forget us forever,
And forsake us for so long a time?
21 Turn us back to You, O Lord, and we will be restored;
Renew our days as of old,
22 Unless You have utterly rejected us,
And are very angry with us!
The question that needs to be answered is when does the third day begin in Hosea 6:2?
This can be answered by discerning when Israel will be saved and Paul tells us in Romans 11:25-26 that Israel will be save when the prophesised fulness of the period of the Gentiles trampling the Sanctuary of God and his host has run its full course over time. My understanding is that this will occur in our near future, in another 25 or so years time, when the nations will gather at the place known as Armageddon to be judged by God.
The first three chapters of the book of Revelation are letters to the seven churches and then in Revelation 4 the prophetic nature of the Book of Revelation kicks in so to speak with the Judgement of the heavenly hosts in Heaven which is also contained in Daniel 7:9-12 and is also repeated a couple of times in the Book of Revelation but from very different aspects with respect to what is being recorded.
Isaiah 24: 21-22 tells us that the kings of the earth with be judged at the same time as the heavenly hosts, and that the heavenly hosts with be gathered together with the judged kings of the earth and imprisoned in a pit/bottomless pit for a very long time before they will be punished. Revelations 12:7-12 confirms that the judged heavenly hosts will come down to the earth. In these verses, there is a 1000 year gap while Satan and his heavenly hosts will be locked up in the Abyss/Bottomless Pit and then when they are released for the little while period, Satan realised that his time is short.
Perhaps this is a good time to stop for a breath of air, and to allow the readers of this post time to digest what I am posting, and to allow for questions to be asked.
Shalom
What about God the Father, who is mentioned simply as "God", the one who gave Jesus His Revelation? Should we resort to Modalism, or stick with Bible truth?
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
I reworded the statement of a person I respect a lot so that it would more directly address what you are entering into in this forum.
From the very beginning, cranks and crackpots have attempted to use Revelation to advocate some new twist on the Chicken Little Doctrine: The Sky is Falling! But, as I hope you will learn in this little study, St. John’s Apocalypse teaches instead, that Christians will overcome all opposition through the work of Jesus Christ. My study has convinced me that a true understanding of this prophecy must be based on the proper application of five crucial interpretive keys:
1. Revelation is the most “Biblical” book in the Bible.
St. John quotes hundreds of passages from the Old Testament, often with subtle allusions to little-known religious rituals of the Hebrew people. In order to understand Revelation, we need to know our Bibles backward and forward. One reason why the best commentaries I have read are so large is that the authors tried to explain this extensive Biblical background, commenting on numerous portions of Scripture that shed light on John’s prophecy.
2. Revelation has a system of symbolism.
Almost everyone recognizes that John wrote his message in symbols. But the meaning of those symbols is not up for grabs. There is a systematic structure in Biblical symbolism. In order to understand Revelation properly, we must become familiar with the “language” in which it is written. I hope this study brings you at least a few steps closer to a truly Biblical Theology of Revelation.
3. Revelation is a prophecy about imminent events — events that were about to break loose on the world of the first century.
Revelation is not about nuclear warfare, space travel, or the end of the world. Again and again, it specifically warns that “the time is near!” John wrote his book as a prophecy of the approaching destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, showing that Jesus Christ had brought the New Covenant and the New Creation. Revelation cannot be understood unless this fundamental fact is taken seriously.
4. Revelation is a worship service.
John did not write a textbook on prophecy. Instead, he recorded a heavenly worship service in progress. One of his major concerns, in fact, is that the worship of God is central to everything in life. It is the most important thing we do. For this reason, I hope someone here will devote special attention throughout this study to the very considerable liturgical aspects of Revelation, and their implications for our worship services today.
5. Revelation is a book about dominion.
Revelation is not a book about how terrible the Antichrist is, or how powerful the devil is. It is, as the very first verse says, The Revelation of Jesus Christ. It tells us about His lordship over all; it tells us about our salvation and victory in the New Covenant, God’s “wonderful plan for our life”; it tells us that the kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our God, and of His Christ; and it tells us that He and His people shall reign forever and ever.
From the very beginning, cranks and crackpots have attempted to use Revelation to advocate some new twist on the Chicken Little Doctrine: The Sky is Falling! But, as I hope you will learn in this little study, St. John’s Apocalypse teaches instead, that Christians will overcome all opposition through the work of Jesus Christ. My study has convinced me that a true understanding of this prophecy must be based on the proper application of five crucial interpretive keys:
1. Revelation is the most “Biblical” book in the Bible.
St. John quotes hundreds of passages from the Old Testament, often with subtle allusions to little-known religious rituals of the Hebrew people. In order to understand Revelation, we need to know our Bibles backward and forward. One reason why the best commentaries I have read are so large is that the authors tried to explain this extensive Biblical background, commenting on numerous portions of Scripture that shed light on John’s prophecy.
2. Revelation has a system of symbolism.
Almost everyone recognizes that John wrote his message in symbols. But the meaning of those symbols is not up for grabs. There is a systematic structure in Biblical symbolism. In order to understand Revelation properly, we must become familiar with the “language” in which it is written. I hope this study brings you at least a few steps closer to a truly Biblical Theology of Revelation.
3. Revelation is a prophecy about imminent events — events that were about to break loose on the world of the first century.
Revelation is not about nuclear warfare, space travel, or the end of the world. Again and again, it specifically warns that “the time is near!” John wrote his book as a prophecy of the approaching destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, showing that Jesus Christ had brought the New Covenant and the New Creation. Revelation cannot be understood unless this fundamental fact is taken seriously.
4. Revelation is a worship service.
John did not write a textbook on prophecy. Instead, he recorded a heavenly worship service in progress. One of his major concerns, in fact, is that the worship of God is central to everything in life. It is the most important thing we do. For this reason, I hope someone here will devote special attention throughout this study to the very considerable liturgical aspects of Revelation, and their implications for our worship services today.
5. Revelation is a book about dominion.
Revelation is not a book about how terrible the Antichrist is, or how powerful the devil is. It is, as the very first verse says, The Revelation of Jesus Christ. It tells us about His lordship over all; it tells us about our salvation and victory in the New Covenant, God’s “wonderful plan for our life”; it tells us that the kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our God, and of His Christ; and it tells us that He and His people shall reign forever and ever.
This is patently false. If it were true we would already be living in the period of the New Heavens and the New Earth. Satan is still on the loose, which means we have not even arrived at the Millennium, let alone the Second Coming of Christ.
Write [1] the things which thou hast seen, and [2] the things which are, and [3] the things which shall be hereafter (Rev 1:19)
THE THINGS WHICH THOU HAST SEEN
The decline and apostasy within the churches during the apostolic period.
THE THINGS WHICH ARE (Rev 1-5)
The letters to the seven churches and worship in Heaven.
THE THINGS WHICH SHALL BE HEREAFTER (Rev 6-22)
The seven seals and the second coming of Christ with its aftermath.
From among the seven seals, the events of the first five seals began to be fulfilled shortly after Revelation was written in 96 AD. See the Olivet Discourse for confirmation.
The sixth and seventh seal events are still to come.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Revelation 1:1-2 KJV
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: [2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
John states right here that He bares record of all the things Jesus saw. This can only mean that he was eye witness of all that’s contained in this book.
Tecarta Bible
Hi Willie,
This is where I'll sound like @bbyrd009 for a minute, where so many like to say this is that, and that is this, and that's the other thing, and people go on and on like, interpretting for us all until the prophecy is completely unrecognizable.
I wonder . . . what would most of us do if the we were standing outside in the middle of the day, and the sun went black, and the whole earth is shaking, and the moon is like a massive drop of blood in the sky, and stars are falling, and so on . . .
What would we do?
I know what I would do. I'd get real excited, and I'd be looking up into that nightmare sky looking for Jesus, because I know I'd be seeing Him very soon! Because that's my understanding.
But just the same . . . If Jesus comes back with the Eternal Kingdom and the preterists were right, fantastic! And if the early church writers were right, and I'm seeing the Beast trampling the Saints, and the worshipers of the Image marked, still I know Jesus is coming.
I wonder really how many people are able to read prophecy for what it says, instead of coloring it with their other ideas?
Jesus said, I tell you now so when it happens you will believe. Prophecy is to build faith, when the prophecy is fulfilled.
And to give clear and concise milestones to know that God is real and true.
God told Moses this is the sign you'll know it's Me, you will return to worship Me at this mountain.
Moses wouldn't know the fulfillment of that until after a lot of stuff had happened. And he didn't know all the roads he'd go to get back there.
Well, I do go on . . .
Much love!
That's all true, but there's a lot more than seeing into heaven. There's a lot of material about what is to happen on the earth.
Is your idea that this was all fulfilled in the first century (in the historical sense) to leave us both the example and the understanding (in the spiritual sense)?
Much love!
If I thought John had been talking about astronomical phenomenon, then perhaps I would.
GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
Aprox 25% of the Bible is prophecy!! Who thinks God' Word of prophecy is just a waste of time. God says==Behold, the former things have come to pass, Now I declare new things; Before they spring forth I proclaim them to you."
Isaiah 42:9
Isaiah 42:9
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