The Book of Revelation, Understood?

[Enoch111]

This can only mean that he was eye witness of all that’s contained in this book.

I don't believe I disputed that. I was dealing with another issue -- Preterism.

 

[101G]

The passage of Hosea 6:2 can be linked to Exodus 20:4-6 and it contains the encouragement that after the third and the fourth "age/day of the lord" that God will raise up the nation of Israel once more and that they will live in His sight. Jeremiah 31:31ff also confirms that God will redeem Israel but after the passing of the third and the fourth "age/day of the Lord" of the existence of Israe

First, thanks for the reply. second, I understand Jeremiah 31:31, not saying that you're right or wrong, but was not that covenant confirmed when our Lord died on the cross? for it was given unto Abraham in Faith, supportive scripture, Galatians 3:17 "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Galatians 3:18 "For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise". so this is the covenant that we're still under.

The question that needs to be answered is when does the third day begin in Hosea 6:2?
This can be answered by discerning when Israel will be saved and Paul tells us in Romans 11:25-26 that Israel will be save when the prophesised fulness of the period of the Gentiles trampling the Sanctuary of God and his host has run its full course over time. My understanding is that this will occur in our near future, in another 25 or so years time, when the nations will gather at the place known as Armageddon to be judged by God.

not saying that you're right or wrong, but how can Armageddon be, (as you say in about the next 25 years), which is interesting. how did you reach this conclusion?

will be looking for your response.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

What about God the Father, who is mentioned simply as "God", the one who gave Jesus His Revelation? Should we resort to Modalism, or stick with Bible truth?

Well your question bring us to today's answer. we will stick with the bible truth as you said.

The information which I may post, or another poster, may, or may not agree with your personal doctoral beliefs, but we’re not going to argue over it. any disagreement or confusion will be laid aside. Just evaluation what is posted and ask question if you don’t understand something. a back and forth without scriptures, will be null and void. Thanks.

The Book’s first chapter is solely dedicate to identifying the one true God, the Lord Jesus.

Revelation 1:4-6 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood”.

This letter is from one person, the Lord Jesus, who is the Almighty. Who holds the Title God. Here is where the other Persons who suppose to be in the Godhead is vetted by scripture or not. Lets follow the bible, not our beliefs.

In Revelation 1:1 it states who sent the Letter. only one person sent his angel to John, but John is saying that the letter is from…. “him”, one person. And he identifies who this one person is,

A. Him, “which is, and which was, and which is to come”.
B. Him, “the seven Spirits”.
C. Him, “the faithful witness”, Jesus the Christ.

I know some will say I’m on a trail to disprove the trinity, NO, I’m NOT, let the scriptures fall where they may. John is giving us clear vetting process as to who the one person that sent this letter to the seven churches, via John. Remember this is a revelation of …. Jesus the Christ.

This one person hold all these identifying Appellation, or Epithet, which are mention above. this changes the whole dynamic of the book as we once believed, and the way we should read and understand this book. If the Lord Jesus holds all these identifying Appellation, or Epithet then one will have to consider what they believe. but leaving that alone, Lets follow the Appellation, and the Epithet and see if this is the one same person.

#1. him, “which is, and which was, and which is to come". is this the Lord Jesus?.

Evidence #1. Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty”. So the “which is, and which was, and which is to come” is A. the Almighty, B. the Alpha and the Omega, and C. the Lord.

Evidence #2. Revelation 4:8 "And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which is, and which was, and which is to come”. Again the which is, and which was, and which is to come is the Lord God Almighty.

Evidence #3. Revelation 11:17 "Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned".

So clearly we see that him, “which art, and wast, and art to come“, it the Lord God Almighty. But is this JESUS?

#2. him, the “Seven Spirits”. is this the Lord Jesus also?

Evidence #1. Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead”. We know that this is the Lord Jesus who is addressing the church in Sardis, and he, the “Lord” Jesus said that he has the “Seven Spirits”.

Evidence #2. Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth”. BINGO, “which are the seven Spirits of God ”. so it is the Lord JESUS. for he stood/resurrected.

Evidence #3. the one who have the seven Spirits is the Same one who is the First and the Last,
Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death". the omly one who was dead and live evermore is JESUS.

So the the one who have the seven Spirit is the First and the Last who is the Lord God Almighty.
Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”. who is the “First & Last?”, the Lord God Almighty. BINGO, that confirm who is the Lord God Almighty is, JESUS.

And lastly, “the true witness”, that’s a no brainier, a give me. The Lord Jesus.

The only person who is the central theme of this book is the Lord Jesus, who is the Spirit, and God is a Spirit (John 4:24a). so no Modalism here. what's not here is three seperate and distinct persons. THIS IS NOT ME, BUT THE BIBLE. we willl see this clearly later on in the chapter.

So these verses are open for discussion.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

The second coming of God, the Glorified Christ.

Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen”.

he cometh with clouds, the actual “clouds in heaven, meaning the sky. Supportive scripture, Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory”. one more, Acts 1:9 "And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight”. this should take care of any clouds theories.

“and every eye shall see him and they also which pierced him”. now we are getting into God. Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn”. (now this is a kicker, this is the "LORD" here speaking in Zechariah, but it was the "Lord" who was pierced). that's something to consider..
Psalms 22:16 "For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet”. John 19:36 "For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. (which none of his bones was broken). John 19:37 "And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced. (John here was speaking of the Lord Jesus).

“and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen”. all the wicked, in the several parts of the world, will lament, and wring their hands, and express the inward terror and horror of their minds, at his appearing; (what a time this will be). they will fear his resentment of all their wicked words and actions; will dread his wrath, and tremble at his righteous judgment:
2 Thessalonians 2:8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming”. the spirit of his mouth is the two edge sword, which is the word of God. Isaiah 49:2 "And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me”.

Revelation 2:16 "Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. (now STOP and think for a second, where is all the fire that destroyes the wicked? no it's the Word of God that do this destroying at his coming).

Revelation 19:15 "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 1:16 "And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength”.

this same two-edge sword is not for physical fighting, but Spiritual fighting, Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart".

I believe we need to re-examing what happening at his second coming.

PICJAG.

 

[ReChoired]

...

Evidence #2. Revelation 4:8 "And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which is, and which was, and which is to come”. Again the which is, and which was, and which is to come is the Lord God Almighty. ...

So clearly we see that him, “which art, and wast, and art to come“, it the Lord God Almighty. But is this JESUS?

You are in great error. Revelation 4:8 is a reference to the Person/Being of the Father, not the Son, as the Son does not even appear until Chapter 5, as "the Lamb". Notice:

Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
Rev 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Rev 4:6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
Rev 4:7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Rev 4:9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.​

John, sees into the Heavenly True Tabernacle/Sanctuary/Temple, into the First Apartment, through the First Door/Veil, wherein we see the 7 Golden Candlesticks, across from (before) the Table of ShewBread (which is identified as the Throne of the Father in the Holy Place), for the Son lives by every word of the Father.

Jesus, the Son of the Father, is nowhere present in Revelation 4. Only the Father, the Holy Spirit, 4 Living Creatures/Beast and 24 Elders.

The Son shows up in Chapter 5, and appears in the midst of the Throne and elders, and takes the scroll out of the hand of the Father, who came to be seated on the Throne (Chapter 4) in the Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary (Hebrews 8:2), after having moved from the Most Holy Place to the Holy Place to meet the Son who had just ascended to the Holy Place (Revelation 1, Jesus in the midst of the 7 golden candlesticks), Psalms 24, Luke 24, Acts 1, Ephesians 4, etc.

Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.​

Now notice the distinction in Persons/Beings of the Father, Son (and Holy Ghost/Spirit, earlier, vs 6, see Psalms 133:1-3, Acts 2:1-4,33, and then see the Chiastic structure of Revelation itself, in that it ties Revelation 1:4, 4:5 and Revelation 22:17 together, see that here - http://sdamaranathachurch.org/wp-co...-Revelation-compared-7-Branch-Candlestick.pdf ):

Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.​

That is two Beings/Persons.

[1] him that sitteth upon the throne = The Person/Being of the Father

[2] unto the Lamb = The Person/Being Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father (John 1:29,36)​

Jesus even tells us of the Two Persons sitting upon that Eternal Throne:

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

[1] Father (his throne)

[2] me [Jesus]​

 

[ReChoired]

#2. him, the “Seven Spirits”. is this the Lord Jesus also?

Evidence #1. Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead”. We know that this is the Lord Jesus who is addressing the church in Sardis, and he, the “Lord” Jesus said that he has the “Seven Spirits”.

Evidence #2. Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth”. BINGO, “which are the seven Spirits of God ”. so it is the Lord JESUS. for he stood/resurrected.

Evidence #3. the one who have the seven Spirits is the Same one who is the First and the Last,
Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death". the omly one who was dead and live evermore is JESUS.

So the the one who have the seven Spirit is the First and the Last who is the Lord God Almighty.

...PICJAG.

Again, you are in great error.

Jesus, the "Lamb" (Revelation 5:6), is not the "seven Spirits of God", but rather is said to be "having" (possession of) the "seven Spirits of God", which when seen in Chiastic definition, is the "Spirit" (Revelation 22:17, see also Revelation 1:4, 4:5). The Holy Ghost/Spirit is "upon" Jesus, not that He (Holy Ghost) is Jesus. Jesus is not "upon" Himself, neither "having" Himself, neither "sen[ding]" Himself. The Holy Ghost/Spirit comes in Jesus' name (John 14:26), as His representative, "another" Comforter (John 14:16).

See also:

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; [the 7th is "Holy"]

Zec_3:9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

Isa_61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Luk_4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,​

Notice, that even Isaiah states the Three Persons/Beings:

Isa_48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.​

Notice:

[1] The Person/Being of the Father

[2] The Person/Being of the Son

[3] The Person/Being of the Holy Ghost/Spirit (aka 7 Spirits, or the fullness of, or completeness of the Person of the Holy Ghost)​

 

[101G]

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Rev 4:9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

First thanks for the reply. second, using the scripture that you gave, notice verse 11 there, Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

to receive something one must be given it. so if this is the one whom you calls the Father who sits on the throne, I would like to know who have "POWER" to give it to him, if he's the "ALMIGHTY?" so please furnish book chapter and vers as to who gave the "Father" POWER. for the Father has all power, which is what I thought, that's why he called the "ALMIGHTY". so when you can show me that scripture, as to who it was that gave the Father POWER, then I'll repent.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Again, you are in great error.

Jesus, the "Lamb" (Revelation 5:6), is not the "seven Spirits of God", but rather is said to be "having" (possession of) the "seven Spirits of God", which when seen in Chiastic definition, is the "Spirit" (Revelation 22:17, see also Revelation 1:4, 4:5). The Holy Ghost/Spirit is "upon" Jesus, not that He (Holy Ghost) is Jesus. Jesus is not "upon" Himself, neither "having" Himself, neither "sen[ding]" Himself. The Holy Ghost/Spirit comes in Jesus' name (John 14:26), as His representative, "another" Comforter (John 14:16).

apparently you didn't read my post on that. but I'll answer you all in one, so having (possession?). Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old". so who possessed whom? but to clear up the matter, which I'm getting ahead of myself, in the 7 letters to the churches, who was addressing or speaking to the 7 churches. would you not agree that it was the Lord Jesus? correct, yes, but notice how each letter ends. "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches". but was it not the Lord Jesus who was speaking to the Churches? yes, the Lord Jesus is the Spirit, the Holy Spirit. and God is a "Spirit", is he not... see John 4:24a. BINGO, see how easy it is when one let the bible clear up any matter.

but if you have anything different please post it. and again thanks for the reply.

PICJAG.

 

[bbyrd009]

I think the last couple of chapters, or so, are yet to come.

yet to come for you, maybe, for me maybe too, but if they are yet to come they will come for us just like they have for any other walking the path imo, where Christ is revealed? Imo we lament the world passing away in reading The Rev, bc we are still in the world

Revelation 1:3 "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand".

^

iow The Rev was not written for the world to read and fear, like we all pretty much do imo

 

[ReChoired]

First thanks for the reply. second, using the scripture that you gave, notice verse 11 there, Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

to receive something one must be given it. so if this is the one whom you calls the Father who sits on the throne, I would like to know who have "POWER" to give it to him, if he's the "ALMIGHTY?" so please furnish book chapter and vers as to who gave the "Father" POWER. for the Father has all power, which is what I thought, that's why he called the "ALMIGHTY". so when you can show me that scripture, as to who it was that gave the Father POWER, then I'll repent.

PICJAG.

Simple. It's in the very verse you (and I) cited. It's a reference to those who serve God, returning unto God that which God gives them. God the Father is worthy of all authority /power by His very Character, which the Son manifested unto mankind, and the Holy Ghost reveals to the heart.

1Sa_2:30 Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the LORD saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.​

Even the Son, will return the "power"/"authority" given to Him from the Father, back to the Father:

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.​

Mat_28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. [I return your question back to you]

Joh_17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.​

1Co_15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.​

1Co_15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.​

You did not address anything I stated, at all. Yet I have addressed you. You remain in error, and add even stubborness to your crimes.

 

[101G]

Revelation 1:9 "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ".

One thing that jumped out at me here in this verse is that John was in "tribulation", yes of course, he was in prision. but the point is that he was in the "KINGDOM". now many speak of the "KINGDOM" but this KINGDOM need closer examination. for the KINGDOM of, of, of, God is within you, but the apostle Paul said something that was of intrest. 2 Timothy 4:18 "And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen". was not Paul already in the KINGDOM, as with John?. so why would he say, "preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom".
Hmmmmmmm.

PICJAG.

 

[bbyrd009]

not saying that you're right or wrong, but how can Armageddon be, (as you say in about the next 25 years), which is interesting. how did you reach this conclusion?

no offense to...whomever, but obv bc he is deceived, and in fear?

 

[ReChoired]

apparently you didn't read my post on that. but I'll answer you all in one, so having (possession?). Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old". so who possessed whom? but to clear up the matter, which I'm getting ahead of myself, in the 7 letters to the churches, who was addressing or speaking to the 7 churches. would you not agree that it was the Lord Jesus? correct, yes, but notice how each letter ends. "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches". but was it not the Lord Jesus who was speaking to the Churches? yes, the Lord Jesus is the Spirit, the Holy Spirit. and God is a "Spirit", is he not... see John 4:24a. BINGO, see how easy it is when one let the bible clear up any matter.

but if you have anything different please post it. and again thanks for the reply.

PICJAG.

You still cannot read in order.

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.​

Three "from".

The LORD (Father) which "possessed" (Proverbs 8) the Lamb (the Son) from eternity.

 

[101G]

Simple. It's in the very verse you (and I) cited. It's a reference to those who serve God, returning unto God that which God gives them. God the Father is worthy of all authority /power by His very Character, which the Son manifested unto mankind, and the Holy Ghost reveals to the heart.

1Sa_2:30 Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the LORD saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.​

Even the Son, will return the "power"/"authority" given to Him from the Father, back to the Father:

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.​

Mat_28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Joh_17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.​

1Co_15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.​

1Co_15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.​

You did not address anything I stated, at all. Yet I have addressed you. You remain in error, and add even stubborness to your crimes.

where is the POWER given? ................ now you're on point here, Mat_28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth". now we're talking. see the Son was "GIVEN" Power, not the Father... see the difference now?
in Revelation chapter 5, it is the "ROOT" who stands, having the seven Spirit ..... not the offspring. and the ROOT, the Spirit is Jesus who is God almighty.

so again, thanks for the reply.

PICJAG.

 

[marks]

see, Mark you jump to these conclusion, not me. I just open it up.

PICJAG.

I'm certain you are correct, and I surely do not see where you are heading with the exact same assertions you've made quite a number of times in your anti-trinity debates. Though the path be repeated 100 times, yet 101 may be different, let it be so!

Much Love!

 

[101G]

You still cannot read in order.

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,​

Three "from".

The LORD (Father) which "possessed" (Proverbs 8) the Lamb (the Son) from eternity.

Ok, one last try, as I said we're not going to argue. if it is three then answer me this please. John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made" this is the Lord Jesus the "WORD" as in John 1:1 correct, and Jesus is "Lord", right. and according to John 1:3 here "he made all things correct. ok Good listen to this, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself".
ok ReChoired, is this the SAME PERSON, yes or no? read those scriptures again closley.
also remember he is "ALONE"and "BY HIMSELF". so he didn't go through someone.

now when you answer this, that will be all I will say on this ok.

and agin thanks for your reply.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

I'm certain you are correct, and I surely do not see where you are heading with the exact same assertions you've made quite a number of times in your anti-trinity debates. Though the path be repeated 100 times, yet 101 may be different, let it be so!

Much Love!

when did I say I was anti-trinity? just because I follow the bible. well this is why the book is called REVELATION, an unveiling of the truth. I told you this was not my intent. now if you have a problem with the scriptures, take it up with the Lord, he wrote it not I.

and thanks for you reply.

if i may suggest something to you. why not wait until we get into chapter 2 befor you respond, for chapter 1 is the introduction as to the identity of the Lord Jesus as God. so why not wait until chapter 2, just a suggestion.

PICJAG.

 

[bbyrd009]

narf
"im staying here for the present, and if you dont agree with that then take that up with Yah" lol jesus

look no offense but whoever the Authority is here, maybe read 1 Cor 15:24 , bc its for you i guess ok
bc yall sound like a bunch of little kids alright--demanding where babies come from?

 

[marks]

Just one more scripture for today and we'll get ready for tomorrow. For the revelation starts in earnest, as to the knowing of this prophecy at verse 4.

Revelation 1:3 "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand".

many christian are afraid of the book of revelation because of... Revelation 22:18 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book". adding here is to impose or force something unwelcome or unfamiliar to be accepted or put in place.
ADD: G2007 ἐπιτίθημι epitithemi (e-piy-tiy'-thee-miy) v.
to impose (in a friendly or hostile sense).
[from G1909 and G5087]
KJV: add unto, lade, lay upon, put (up) on, set on (up), + surname, X wound

so no one is forcing anything on anyone. that should take care of that.

Now the blessing to just hearing. as we discuss this book, in hearing we are blessed.

so be blessed.

PICJAG.

He that reads, and they that hear and keep the words, as the letter is read to the church.

I do hope those who join the discussion are blessed, but if we really hold to what John wrote here, then the blessing mentioned is not about hearing you or me, it's about someone reading and hearing God's Words to the church.

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

what is it?