The Case Against the Trinity

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

jaybird

Well-Known Member
Feb 29, 2016
1,595
559
113
Not true, who was the Most high talking to when he said, Genesis 1:3 "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." and everywhere else where he said, "Let there be". well? ... because no one was around, but him.
and when he came to Genesis 1:26 he said "Let US, was he alone, YES, at that TIME. so was he speaking to himself? NO, but speaking by himself, concering HIMSELF to come. but was not God speaking all the time throught out the OT? yes. understand "J", in Hermeneutic, there is a near and far application study of the bible. listen, Genesis 11:7 "Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech."
Genesis 11:8 "So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city."

now Jaybird, did you see the "US" there in the Verse? is this just as the "US" as in Genesis 1:26? yes. let us tell you the revelation,
A. the "US" was to come. why? listen, because God was to confuse the language, and scatter the people. correct. ok, listen to the verses before....

Genesis 11:5 "And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded."
Genesis 11:6 "And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do."
Genesis 11:7 "Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech."
STOP, DID YOU SEE IT? in verse 5 the LORD came Down.... already, so why did he say in verse 7 AFTER verse 5, "let, let, let, US go down when he was already DOWN? don't make sense do it? well it makes FAITH, and here's why. as said in Hermeneutic, there is a study called near and far application. meaning something happening how will have an effect on somethin in the future in the same context. here, God confounded the Language of the people, and scattered them abroad, correct. well the far application of this, came on the Day of Pentecoast when God made the confounded language, one as before, (all understood). and instead of scattered them abroad, ...... from abroad, he gathered them together. BINGO, keep this in MIND of the Near and Far application of Hermeneutic. now lets apply the same application to Genesis 1.

in Genesis 1, God, as said, was already speaking. "Let there be", there is that same word, "let", well, "Let there be this and that on each day". ok, God has already spoken. Just like when he has already come down to the city and tower of Babel, already came down, before he said, let US, right. now Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
BINGO,. let us make man, now the NEAR, and FAR, application of Hermeneutic in use. lets understand. the NEAR application, Let US make man, and man was made by God, (one person, because of Genesis 1:27). now the Far application, Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law," BINGO, when in the fullness of time, remember as I said, "TIME", PLACE, ORDER, and RANK. the "TIME" of God coming in flesh, (his OWN image), "MADE" of a woman, meaning the IMAGE, that FIGURE, or FASHION, or the BODY, GOD "CAME" IN, WAS GENERATED in the BELLY of a woman, (Romans 5:14b, Gal 4:4). the PLACE, when God sent his angel to the virgin Mary, and the saviour was born in the city of David, (Luke 2:11). and the ORDER, is the Last, or the Last Adam, (1 Corinthians 15:45).

see it now "J?", God was to "COME", the likeness of his OWN, OWN, OWN, IMAGE ..... MAN, which was to come, the NEW MAN, or the LAST Adam. and that happen at John 1:1... My GOD this is revelation upon revelation.

God was speaking at Genesis 1:26, of himself to come as the LAST ADAM, his "ANOTHER" of himself to Come, this is why God is called an H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem'), here, and not the H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) when speaking of himself to come in flesh, do you fully understand this?. this was fulfilled, Galatians 4:4, and John 1:14. GOD was speaking of himself to come in flesh.. HIS, HIS, HIS, own IMAGE... "MAN". supportive scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:" BINGO, this just answered Genesis 1:26. Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

understand now Jaybird, the "US" and "OUR" is to COME, in which, the Hermeneutic NEAR, and FAR application is clearly excuted by our God, shows who is as an H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem'), meaning that he's the ECHAD of his OWN-SELF, which is the H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), the ONE TRUE AND LIVING, GOD, ... JESUS the almighty. BINGO, :eek: YIKES!. not only did I go bible on you only, but I used worldy educational application also with the use of Hermeneutic NEAR, and FAR application. now you have the bible facts, and to back this up, in educational application.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Job 38 has sons of the Most High singing when the earth was created before mankind was created.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wrangler

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,515
5,095
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
maybe you didn't read the scripture, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you."
the one who came to save us came in flesh. Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." so Wrangler, how is God with us? answer by being in flesh like us.... in a body.

The projecting man-is-God thesis onto the text is impressive mental gymnastics. Isaiah was an anti-trinitarian Hebrew, like all Bible writers who have rejected trinitarian interpretation of their text for 1,000 of years.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The projecting man-is-God thesis onto the text is impressive mental gymnastics. Isaiah was an anti-trinitarian Hebrew, like all Bible writers who have rejected trinitarian interpretation of their text for 1,000 of years.
nor is he a oneness God, that's why I'm "a "Diversified Oneness". God, the H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah). who is the, H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem'), plurality, of himself in flesh. and I will put this up aganist anything out there in, and out of Doctrine.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,515
5,095
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
well prove me wrong

I already have proven you wrong dozens of times.


But there is one thing I want you to know: The head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
1 Corinthians 11:3


You must not have any other god but me.
Exodus 20:3
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I already have proven you wrong dozens of times.


But there is one thing I want you to know: The head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
1 Corinthians 11:3


You must not have any other god but me.
Exodus 20:3
ERROR, the term head here only meaning source. not authority. as in the RIVER HEAD, is a spring in the mountian. and to futher to reprove this nonesense, notice the verse use titles and not names, example, 1 Corinthians 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."this is the ORDER of source, and NOT authority. Woman came out of Man, Genesis 2:23. and Christ, from God who is Spirit, now God's ownself in flesh, as the Christ, is from God, John 8:42.

But here is the PROPER REVELATION, notice the verse did not use Name but only titles, because is God the Head of "JESUS"... no, because Jesus is God. how ignorant can people be. or as the verse states, "Christ", the head of Man. if this means in authorty, well I can take you to a few places near you, and prove that there are some men... NOW are not unders his authority, or obeying him, that is if the term head here means authority. so REPROVED again, by scripture.

this is why the churches are in so much trouble today, statements like these concering God, "HEADSHIP". NOT in "authority", but in Source or in "ORDER", God, to God another of himself in Flesh... the Christ. Man, to man, another of himself in flesh ... the woman.

Ignorant men just mak a mess of God Holy Word,

Wrangler, we suggest you read, Hebrews 5:12 "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat."
Hebrews 5:13 "For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe."
Hebrews 5:14 "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 
Last edited:

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,515
5,095
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Which "heavenly being" do you think said, "Let us make man to our image and likeness?" (Gen. 1:26)

Yea, better to divert attention from the implication of these verses. Jesus is not God. The trinity is not God.

But there is one thing I want you to know: The head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
1 Corinthians 11:3

You must not have any other god but me.
Exodus 20:3
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Agreed. Like pretending trinity is in the Bible when it is not.
agreed, but,

101G said: ↑
angels have nothing to do with God
LOL You do twist yourself into knots with all your mental gymnastics.


please pay attention, when you quote me, quote me correctly, don't take part of what I say out of Context, make sure you quote me correctly.... ok.
this is no laughing matter

THIS IS WHAT I SAID IN.... RESPONSE TO WHAT YOU SAID,
Wrangler said: ↑
2 Attending him were mighty seraphim, each having six wings. With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they flew. 3 They were calling out to each other.

These seraphim are not God but elohim, heavenly beings (plural). God is included among the heavenly beings. Let's do more laps as we've covered this a dozen times already.


101G said,
"angels have nothing to do with God, and your last statement",

so in your last statement those seraphim has nothing to do with God, for God is not an angel, God is not created. but angels are. .
SO NEVER TAKE ANYTHING I SAID LIKE THIS OUT OF CONTEXT ANY MORE .... OK, this is no laughing matter, as to play with. if you cannot quote me correctly in context, don't quote me at all.

I have notice you have been doing that alot. so ended it with quoting me, ok. as far as I'm concern, no harm, so lets keep it that way.

thanks in advance.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,515
5,095
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
please pay attention, when you quote me, quote me correctly, don't take part of what I say out of Context

I do quote you correctly and attempt to put what you write in context. If you want to stand by a sliver of a long post that is wrong, like 'angels have nothing to do with God', bless your heart.

A humble man would concede such portions of what you write are not correct. Or as you are fond of ERROR.
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,515
5,095
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
in your last statement those seraphim has nothing to do with God, for God is not an angel, God is not created. but angels are.

You changed the subject from angels to God. If you believe 'angels have nothing to do with God' bless your heart.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I do quote you correctly and attempt to put what you write in context. If you want to stand by a sliver of a long post that is wrong, like 'angels have nothing to do with God', bless your heart.

A humble man would concede such portions of what you write are not correct. Or as you are fond of ERROR.
ok, what to God have to do with the angels and your last statement?

the ball is in your court.

Not buying your rationalization of special interpretation of words. Obviously head means authority. It never means source.
so we can take this as you have been reproved.

You changed the subject from angels to God. If you believe 'angels have nothing to do with God' bless your heart.
no change, it was all in quotes....

as said the ball is in your court.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,515
5,095
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ok, what to God have to do with the angels and your last statement?

I no longer know what 'last statement you are referring to. This is a kind of thinking I tend to shun. I tend to rely on first principles. Angels have everything to do with God, being God's messengers. This is a legitimate starting point, a solid foundation to build on.

Another is the 1C. Since God put it first, it must be important. If the plural 'our' in Genesis is important, the singular 'me' in the 1C must be even more important.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I no longer know what 'last statement you are referring to. This is a kind of thinking I tend to shun. I tend to rely on first principles. Angels have everything to do with God, being God's messengers. This is a legitimate starting point, a solid foundation to build on.

Another is the 1C. Since God put it first, it must be important. If the plural 'our' in Genesis is important, the singular 'me' in the 1C must be even more important.

this is what the Bible is talking about... unlearned men just running their mouths. if you just want to have a regular conversation, this is what Facebook and twitter are for...
but if you have a revelation as to what I said, and your statement.anything else it's just vain jangling.
this is only, A. a wist of time, B. a distraction from the topic.


now as for messingers, it is HUMAN men whom God has for the MESSAGE of "SALVATION", and not angels. because we have the HOLY SPIRIT.... GOD HIMSELF in us what else God need? the message of "Salvation" is for men and by men, hence the GREAT COMMISSION.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

jaybird

Well-Known Member
Feb 29, 2016
1,595
559
113
ERROR, read the answer to this in a post I made here on the fourm If Jesus was the Son of God before he became man...

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

What are you talking about??

Job 38 4,7
4“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?

Tell me, if you have understanding.

7when the morning stars sang together

and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


its always been a mystery exactly when angels were created some say before earth, some after but the facts we do know is they existed before man was created because the Job passage has them singing during the creation process.

so now your going to turn this scripture aside, just to make the doctrine work?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.