The Case Against the Trinity

[101G]

so you think the Father was talking to himself?
i dont think so, if this was true then the passage should stay consistent which it does not as it continues to say "He", not "they".
if it was they then i think you would have a point but its not the way He talks (only 2 times) and never does anyone refer to Him as "they".

GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply, second, did I say that the Father was talking to himself? ... no, Jesus, the Ordinal First, who is the Father is speaking just as he has done throught out the bible, expressing his thoughts in WORDS, that is recorded or written down for our understanding. meaning that what he said is written. and here at Genesis 12:26 Jesus, the Ordinal First, is no exception, GOD "SPOKE" PROPHETIC OF HIS COMING IN FLESH. so at Genesis 1:26 he in his word is speaking prophetic to all the World that is to come, for we have what he has said before, "for it is WRITTEN". this is why God is called, the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') here, as a plurality, instead of the H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m, a singularity. understand your HEBREW, H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym, is the plural form of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah). which clearly explain why God spoke the way he did. in plural the form of the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym is why he is to make man male and female. meaning "ANOTHER" of himself in flesh, (per Isaiah 63:5, and Isaiah 53, and Phil 2:6 & 7).

so there is NO "US", and "OUR" at Genesis 1:26, this was to come as Romans 5:14b clearly states. "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."
see it.... the figure of him, him, him, not them, but HIM to come. God is a single person throught out the OT, listen, Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." NOTE: (if God know not any other God, not God(S), so that eliminated and most high #22 or #3.)
here, NO GOD is clearly spelled out for us... and H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh is used, (the singularity), and not, H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym, see the difference now? so that right there puts an END to any, and I mean any other God person, or Persons at Genesis 1 at all).

so yes, God was speaking to the whole world in Genesis 1:26 as the bible do right now, and the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym is in ORDER, of the Ordinal last to come.
see Jaybird, if you could get the understanding of H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym and H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh, then you could understand God as the ordinal First and Last, why God spoke of himself, and not to himself, to come.

get the beginning straight, and and one will be straight, or correct in the end.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

You cannot answer a question with a question.

Jesus tells us to pray, 'Our Father, who art in heaven.' Some would say that is definitive. Again, hilarious trinitarians give no rational explanation as to why this verse should count more than the >5,000 times God is referred to in the singular.

first I answered your question, please read my response, The Case Against the Trinity

and as for,

Jesus tells us to pray, 'Our Father, who art in heaven.

he, JESUS, is in heaven, (Spirit), and at the same time on earth, (in Flesh), John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

now my challegen still stand, mind answering it?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[jaybird]

GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply, second, did I say that the Father was talking to himself? ... no, Jesus, the Ordinal First, who is the Father is speaking just as he has done throught out the bible, expressing his thoughts in WORDS, that is recorded or written down for our understanding. meaning that what he said is written. and here at Genesis 12:26 Jesus, the Ordinal First, is no exception, GOD "SPOKE" PROPHETIC OF HIS COMING IN FLESH. so at Genesis 1:26 he in his word is speaking prophetic to all the World that is to come, for we have what he has said before, "for it is WRITTEN". this is why God is called, the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') here, as a plurality, instead of the H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m, a singularity. understand your HEBREW, H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym, is the plural form of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah). which clearly explain why God spoke the way he did. in plural the form of the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym is why he is to make man male and female. meaning "ANOTHER" of himself in flesh, (per Isaiah 63:5, and Isaiah 53, and Phil 2:6 & 7).

so there is NO "US", and "OUR" at Genesis 1:26, this was to come as Romans 5:14b clearly states. "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."
see it.... the figure of him, him, him, not them, but HIM to come. God is a single person throught out the OT, listen, Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." NOTE: (if God know not any other God, not God(S), so that eliminated and most high #22 or #3.)
here, NO GOD is clearly spelled out for us... and H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh is used, (the singularity), and not, H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym, see the difference now? so that right there puts an END to any, and I mean any other God person, or Persons at Genesis 1 at all).

so yes, God was speaking to the whole world in Genesis 1:26 as the bible do right now, and the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym is in ORDER, of the Ordinal last to come.
see Jaybird, if you could get the understanding of H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym and H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh, then you could understand God as the ordinal First and Last, why God spoke of himself, and not to himself, to come.

get the beginning straight, and and one will be straight, or correct in the end.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

If the Father is the Most High, and the Son is the Most High. Then it's still the Most High speaking to the Most High.

 

[Wrangler]

now my challegen still stand, mind answering it?

The only challenge I mind answering in this thread is how to strengthen the case AGAINST trinitarianism. Thanks.

 

[Wrangler]

how did God go from a US, and OUR in Genesis 1:26, to a HIS and HE in the very next verse?

I’ve answered this about a dozen times already in different ways. See post # 468.

It’s hilarious that you ask a question I JUST answered.

 

[101G]

If the Father is the Most High, and the Son is the Most High. Then it's still the Most High speaking to the Most High.

ERROR, the Most Hogh is prophesying, it it not WRITTEN?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

The only challenge I mind answering in this thread is how to strengthen the case AGAINST trinitarianism. Thanks.

I’ve answered this about a dozen times already in different ways. See post # 468.

It’s hilarious that you ask a question I JUST answered.

first thanks for the reply. second, I'm not trinitarian, nor unitarian, or oneness as the UPC teach, but I AM a child of god who stand and support his word, the TRUTH. and as for answering my question, I see you cannot, and from theses replies, at this point it is irrelevant.
but the TRUTH still stand...... there is only one God, who is one person, who shared himself in flesh. this is bible truth. all other perspectives are falsehoods.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[jaybird]

ERROR, the Most Hogh is prophesying, it it not WRITTEN?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

The Most High is prophesying to Himself, this is what your saying? The Gen creation story is a prophesy of a future event?
You lost me

 

[101G]

The Most High is prophesying to Himself, this is what your saying? The Gen creation story is a prophesy of a future event?
You lost me

ERROR, listen, the OT is all about the coming testement. listen, is this prophesying "OF" Himself to come. listen, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you." WHO IS GOD SPEAKING TO? .... "Say to them that are of a fearful heart?".
if the prophet Isaiah was not not there to speak for God, who would God be speaking to? answer please.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[jaybird]

Isaiah 6 8 is an example of why the Lord uses the term "us", He askes who shall I send, who will go for us. The Father uses the phrase "send for us" when someone got sent.
I think this makes more sense than the Father talking to Himself.

 

[jaybird]

ERROR, listen, the OT is all about the coming testement. listen, is this prophesying "OF" Himself to come. listen, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you." WHO IS GOD SPEAKING TO? .... "Say to them that are of a fearful heart?".
if the prophet Isaiah was not not there to speak for God, who would God be speaking to? answer please.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

What are you talking about? I'm talking about the "us" in Gen 1 and your talking about Isaiah the prophet.
The Father speaks through prophets therefor Gen 1 is the Most High talking to Himself? This makes no sense at all to me.

 

[101G]

Isaiah 6 8 is an example of why the Lord uses the term "us", He askes who shall I send, who will go for us. The Father uses the phrase "send for us" when someone got sent.
I think this makes more sense than the Father talking to Himself.

well lets examine this scripture. Isaiah 6:8 "Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me." this is a prophetic call of the prophet Isaiah, ok, NOW, who is the I, and the US, the Ordinal First, and the Ordinal Last that is to come... which is JESUS the First and the Last. so now Jaybird, is the First and the Last a Single person ot more that one person, your answer please.... for your answer is in the titles First and last.

Now, Jay examine before you answer... ok.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

What are you talking about? I'm talking about the "us" in Gen 1 and your talking about Isaiah the prophet.
The Father speaks through prophets therefor Gen 1 is the Most High talking to Himself? This makes no sense at all to me.

ok did he the Father at Genesis 1:26 have a prophet to speak through? .... well?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[jaybird]

ok did he the Father at Genesis 1:26 have a prophet to speak through? .... well?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Moses wrote it. It's not a prophesy it's the story of creation.
We have talked on this before. Yes there are always inner teachings, the spirit may lead you to see more, but that's for you alone, you can't start telling everyone "this is what it means cause the spirit told me" or the next guy is gonna come along and claim the same thing only he says we all have to drink poison.

 

[101G]

now, I ask all who follow this topic, how many made man, when God said, "LET "US", make man, so how many of the US made man, anyone can answer? but we warn you of the Lord Jesus words in Matthews 19:4, and yet what was said in John 1:3.

see if God said let "us" make man then if a US did not make man then God lied, (God forbid), and the answer lay in the definition of GOD itself, H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.

I'll be looking for anyone's answer.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

Moses wrote it. It's not a prophesy it's the story of creation.
We have talked on this before. Yes there are always inner teachings, the spirit may lead you to see more, but that's for you alone, you can't start telling everyone "this is what it means cause the spirit told me" or the next guy is gonna come along and claim the same thing only he says we all have to drink poison.

God's coming in the flesh is a prophecy, now answer the post above #496 and this prophecy will be revealed.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[jaybird]

God's coming in the flesh is a prophecy, now answer the post above #496 and this prophecy will be revealed.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Error, the savior is the prophasy.
I think part of the problem with you guys is you don't focus on what Jesus did or taught, you only seem to focus on His nature, which is interesting but doesn't really improve oneself, following His example can improve you in infinite ways.
496 - us means the Most High and whatever agent He is using. If He sends someone to complete a task, the Father is gonna continue being the source of all things.
No one is calling the Father a liar, calm down and don't be so dramatic.

 

[Wrangler]

but the TRUTH still stand...... there is only one God, who is one person, who shared himself in flesh.

This is an excellent assertion for another thread. Nowhere in the Bible is God incarnate prophesied. It does say God raised Jesus from the dead.

Understanding language, logic and definitions, this means God was not made flesh but the one acting on flesh.

 

[101G]

Error, the savior is the prophasy.

Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you."
now Jaybird, who is coming to save us? and we suggest you examine the term "God" here.

496 - us means the Most High and whatever agent He is using. If He sends someone to complete a task, the Father is gonna continue being the source of all things.

ok, post what agent He is using, by scripture, book chapter and verse please.

No one is calling the Father a liar, calm down and don't be so dramatic.

who's upset, waiting for your answers...

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[jaybird]

Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you."
now Jaybird, who is coming to save us? and we suggest you examine the term "God" here.

ok, post what agent He is using, by scripture, book chapter and verse please.

who's upset, waiting for your answers...

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

There is no passage that assigns a name to us. The best you have is the isaiah passage where us is Isaiah and Most High.