The Case Against the Trinity

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

@2nd Timothy Group it's called Theophory, and is used extensively throughout the Bible. Many characters had theophoric names applied to them. Those below are derived from the word El or Elohim. But Baal, Yahweh are also common theophoric prefixes or suffixes.

But, above all, Immanuel means, IN CONTEXT, God has not abandoned His people. After the northern tribes diaspora, after 70 tears of captivity, 400 yrs of silence, and outstanding fulfillment of the Davidic promises not yet realized, and you still have to question what the word Emmanuel means???? You would rather jump off the deep-end and conclude an incomprehensible god-man theory, rather than employ tota-scriptura and realize how the history of the Jews culminates in God making good on His promises towards His chosen ones?

Daniel: "God is my judge" or "justice from God"
Elijah: "my God is YHWH"
Elisha: "my God is salvation"
Elizabeth: "my God is an oath" or "my God is abundance"
Immanuel: "God is with us"
Ezekiel: "God will strengthen"
Gabriel: "God is my strength"
Ishmael: "God listens"
Israel: "who struggles with God"
Michael: "Who is like God?"
Nathaniel: "God-given" or "gift of God"
Raphael: "God heals/God is great"
Samuel: "God heard"
Uriel: "God is my light"

No I don't believe in a God man theory because others do. It goes against scripture because it teaches people to deny that it was the Only Begotten Son of God that God sent to the World of mankind and it teaches people to deny that it was the Only-begotten Son of God that died for mankind. I don't believe in blind faith, the scriptures themselves teaches against this. People who teach that it was God who became human and that it was God who died for mankind and that it was God who raised himself from the graveyard ignoring way too many scriptures that say different. I go by the evidence in the scriptures you trinitarians want you to go by their interpretation of scripture not what's written down by God in scripture. I'll continue to go by what Of has written down not by trinitarians interpretation. Think of me what you want.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Ok. I'm not asking you to believe me. I'm asking you to believe the Word of God, and those are two different things. Believe what you want.

I will continue to believe that God sent his Only-begotten Son to mankind, not himself. I will continue to believe that it was the Only-begotten Son of God that died for me and I will continue on believing it was God who raised his Only-begotten Son three days after his death. As long as I exercise faith in that I'm good.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

I will continue to believe that God sent his Only-begotten Son to mankind, not himself. I will continue to believe that it was the Only-begotten Son of God that died for me and I will continue on believing it was God who raised his Only-begotten Son three days after his death. As long as I exercise faith in that I'm good.

I hear you, sir. May the Lord grant His Grace, Compassion, and Mercy to us both.

 

[friend of]

If Jesus isn't God then who in the heck is he?

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

If Jesus isn't God then who in the heck is he?

Ha! That's the question!

Luke 9:20 NKJV - "He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Peter answered and said, "The Christ of God."

 

[Billy Evmur]

No the Holy Spirit isn't a person at all. The scriptures personifies the Holy Spirit as the scriptures personify, death, sin and wisdom but death, sin and wisdom are not persons just because the scriptures personify them. So Gods Holy Spirit isn't a person just because the scriptures personify it.

all you are telling me is that you have not received Him.

 

[Billy Evmur]

No those who deny Jesus is the only Begotten Son of God is antichrist, and the only humans created were Adam and Eve, the rest of us got here by procreation.

Only begotten Son of God = God

... what did you beget? an owl? God begot God

 

[Billy Evmur]

No the Bible doesn't say that.

yes it does

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

yes it does

The scriptures which are God's word doesn't say that and the scriptures are not going to automatically change and say that no matter how many times you say yes it does. The phrase Only Begotten Son of God means just that. Nowhere in the scriptures did Jesus say he was God. In fact the scriptures tell us that Jesus said that he has a father who is his God who also is our Father and God, Jesus didn't say he was our Father and God, but I agree Jesus Christ was lying about that, right Billy.

 

[Billy Evmur]

The scriptures which are God's word doesn't say that and the scriptures are not going to automatically change and say that no matter how many times you say yes it does. The phrase Only Begotten Son of God means just that. Nowhere in the scriptures did Jesus say he was God. In fact the scriptures tell us that Jesus said that he has a father who is his God who also is our Father and God, Jesus didn't say he was our Father and God, but I agree Jesus Christ was lying about that, right Billy.

The truth about who Jesus is not revealed by flesh and blood but by the Father. You have not received this revelation.

Nobody knows the Father but the Son and nobody knows the Son but the Father.

John.1.1. stitches you up whichever way you attempt to deny it
The word was with God and the word was God and all things were made by Him and the word became flesh and dwelt among us.

You can't wriggle out of it.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Only begotten Son of God = God

... what did you beget? an owl? God begot God

I believe you're Wrong, The Only Begotten Son of God means he's the Only-begotten Son of God. I guess you're just another person who's denying it was The Only Begotten Son of God who came to the world of mankind to save mankind. That's your choice and you have a right to your belief. I disagree with what you're saying however.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

all you are telling me is that you have not received Him.

All you are telling me is that you deny him.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

The scriptures which are God's word doesn't say that and the scriptures are not going to automatically change and say that no matter how many times you say yes it does. The phrase Only Begotten Son of God means just that. Nowhere in the scriptures did Jesus say he was God. In fact the scriptures tell us that Jesus said that he has a father who is his God who also is our Father and God, Jesus didn't say he was our Father and God, but I agree Jesus Christ was lying about that, right Billy.

But we also cannot deny what is only slightly less than obvious, such as . . .

Matthew 4:10 NKJV - "Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve."

Throughout the Gospels, we see Jesus accepting worship. Who receives worship? God and none other.

If Jesus isn't God, then why would He accept worship as though He were?

 

[Billy Evmur]

We are with the apostles who cried "my Lord and my God" and worshipped Him

 

[Billy Evmur]

The scriptures which are God's word doesn't say that and the scriptures are not going to automatically change and say that no matter how many times you say yes it does. The phrase Only Begotten Son of God means just that. Nowhere in the scriptures did Jesus say he was God. In fact the scriptures tell us that Jesus said that he has a father who is his God who also is our Father and God, Jesus didn't say he was our Father and God, but I agree Jesus Christ was lying about that, right Billy.

The scriptures which is God's word ... Jesus is God's Word made flesh

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

The scriptures which is God's word ... Jesus is God's Word made flesh

No the Word is the Only Begotten Son of God made flesh/human. It was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

But we also cannot deny what is only slightly less than obvious, such as . . .

Matthew 4:10 NKJV - "Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve."

Throughout the Gospels, we see Jesus accepting worship. Who receives worship? God and none other.

If Jesus isn't God, then why would He accept worship as though He were?

Most Hebrew and Greek words that can denote worship can also be applied to acts other than worship. They can be applied to men. So while it is true many men bowed or knelt before Jesus out of respect for him, the Hebrews did the same thing to other men, especially to a prophet of God or a man in a position of honor or respect such as like king David. So all these times throughout the gospels you're talking about concerning Jesus doesn't have anything to do with worship of the true God. They simply showed Jesus the respect that Jesus was due him, he being the greatest human prophet ever, he also being the Only Begotten Son of God and the greatest person in creation. However Jesus father and God is the greatest of all persons because he is the creator and source of all life, including his Only Begotten Sons life.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Most Hebrew and Greek words that can denote worship can also be applied to acts other than worship. They can be applied to men. So while it is true many men bowed or knelt before Jesus out of respect for him, the Hebrews did the same thing to other men, especially to a prophet of God or a man in a position of honor or respect such as like king David. So all these times throughout the gospels you're talking about concerning Jesus doesn't have anything to do with worship of the true God. They simply showed Jesus the respect that Jesus was due him, he being the greatest human prophet ever, he also being the Only Begotten Son of God and the greatest person in creation. However, Jesus father and God is the greatest of all persons because he is the creator and source of all life, including his Only Begotten Sons life.

Just curious . . . what does it take for you to change your mind? I ask because if you aren't willing to change your thinking, then there is no reason to continue in discussion. I am absolutely willing and ready to change . . . are you?

 

[Wrangler]

In Christ all things were created. Jesus claims to be God in multiple ways in the new testament.

Despite the fact that statement is patently untrue, it goes to show the emotional investment of trinitarianism is the 'man is god' thesis. That is, even if true, 2 do not a trinity make.

 

[Wrangler]

The Bible does not say Jesus raised himself; it says God raised Jesus. Does this mean anything to you?

John 10:18

I guess it does not mean anything to you. Your rebuttal is so weak you need not comment, eh? A common trinitarian debate tactic is to hold figurative verses as superior to literal verses on a given topic. In this case, Acts explicitly said that God (not 'the Father' but God in his unitarian nature) raised Jesus. Perhaps the significance of the text is lost on you. Let me use a more mundane sentence to clarify <George Washington> gave up or surrendered his <command of the army>. "Command of the Army" is not George Washington.

Similarly, "raising Jesus from the dead" is not God. If Acts stated that Jesus raised himself from the dead, that would support the interpretation you seem to suggest in John 10:18. Jesus was acted upon. The lifeless corpse of Jesus was raised from the dead. And Acts tells us who acted on Jesus was God.

The figurative language of John 10:18 does not change this fact. Jesus prayed for the cup to be passed from him. Perhaps he knew God would have saved him if he lacked the strength to submit to God's will. However, there can be no doubt who Jesus prayed to was not himself.

'For us, there is one God, the Father.'
1 Corinthians 8:6