The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming

[Sel@h]

It’s getting close; the latter days are already here. Let’s not be deceived.

The gathering of believers to Christ will only occur after the Antichrist has reigned.

The popular "Rapture" theory, specifically the Pre-tribulation view, suggests that Christ will remove the church before the tribulation begins. This view claims believers will be whisked away to safety, avoiding all the fear and chaos of the Antichrist. However, this idea lacks biblical support and suggests a cowardice inconsistent with the faith of those who have died defending the truth. Our protection comes from God, our Rock, not from physical hiding places like caves in Petra.

Scripture is clear that the return of Christ happens at the last trump, after the "man of sin" is revealed. In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Paul explicitly warns believers not to be deceived: the Day of Christ cannot come until there is a great falling away and the son of perdition is revealed. This false messiah will exalt himself and sit in the temple of God, claiming to be God.

While some theorists claim that the "restrainer" mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 is the Holy Spirit being removed during a Rapture, this is very poor scholarship. The context makes it clear that the restrainer is holding back Satan, not the church. In reality, the Archangel Michael is the one restraining Satan in heaven.

Satan’s spirit is active on earth, but he himself is not yet here in person. He will be cast out by Michael and his angels, arriving on earth first to reign as the false christ. Only after this event will the gathering to Christ occur. Do not be deceived by theories; rely solely on the Word of God.

Remember, Jesus Christ IS NOT returning until the great apostasy (falling away) occurs AFTER Satan, the son of perdition (meaning the son who will perish), is revealed.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Scripture is clear that the return of Christ happens at the last trump, after the "man of sin" is revealed.

True.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Paul explicitly warns believers not to be deceived: the Day of Christ cannot come until there is a great falling away and the son of perdition is revealed. This false messiah will exalt himself and sit in the temple of God, claiming to be God.

The son of man is the False Messiah? I do not read that in Scripture.

While some theorists claim that the "restrainer" mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 is the Holy Spirit being removed during a Rapture, this is very poor scholarship.

Of course. That theorists comes from the premillennial/pre-tribulation rapture camp.

The context makes it clear that the restrainer is holding back Satan, not the church. In reality, the Archangel Michael is the one restraining Satan in heaven.

Not the Holy Spirit? Not those in the church with the Holy Spirit? But created celestial being with feathered wings called Archangel Michael?

Ahem!

Satan’s spirit is active on earth, but he himself is not yet here in person.

Oh boy, another one-man/person theory again.

He will be cast out by Michael and his angels, arriving on earth first to reign as the false christ.

Really, let read:

Revelation 12:7-10 (ESV)
Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.

Humm, you believe that dragon was cast out of literal heaven to Earth to become a False Christ? Yet at that time, there will be celebration that it will be the day of salvation and the kingdom of God be established?

I do not think you understand the verses properly because it will not take place in the future. Selah!

Only after this event will the gathering to Christ occur.

Huh? Show me this with Scripture in reconile with Revelation 12:7-10

Do not be deceived by theories; rely solely on the Word of God.

I am afraid that you are one of them. The Premillennial with all of her rapture cousins (Pre-, -mid, -post, -prewrath, etc.) is false.

Remember, Jesus Christ IS NOT returning until the great apostasy (falling away) occurs AFTER Satan, the son of perdition (meaning the son who will perish), is revealed.

True but there won't be a one-person "Messiah" as you think. Selah!

 

[ScottA]

It’s getting close; the latter days are already here. Let’s not be deceived.

The gathering of believers to Christ will only occur after the Antichrist has reigned.

The popular "Rapture" theory, specifically the Pre-tribulation view, suggests that Christ will remove the church before the tribulation begins. This view claims believers will be whisked away to safety, avoiding all the fear and chaos of the Antichrist. However, this idea lacks biblical support and suggests a cowardice inconsistent with the faith of those who have died defending the truth. Our protection comes from God, our Rock, not from physical hiding places like caves in Petra.

Scripture is clear that the return of Christ happens at the last trump, after the "man of sin" is revealed. In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Paul explicitly warns believers not to be deceived: the Day of Christ cannot come until there is a great falling away and the son of perdition is revealed. This false messiah will exalt himself and sit in the temple of God, claiming to be God.

While some theorists claim that the "restrainer" mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 is the Holy Spirit being removed during a Rapture, this is very poor scholarship. The context makes it clear that the restrainer is holding back Satan, not the church. In reality, the Archangel Michael is the one restraining Satan in heaven.

Satan’s spirit is active on earth, but he himself is not yet here in person. He will be cast out by Michael and his angels, arriving on earth first to reign as the false christ. Only after this event will the gathering to Christ occur. Do not be deceived by theories; rely solely on the Word of God.

Remember, Jesus Christ IS NOT returning until the great apostasy (falling away) occurs AFTER Satan, the son of perdition (meaning the son who will perish), is revealed.

The good news first, is that there is less to fear than most have anticipated.

The bad news is, every commonly held believe regarding the tribulation and second coming is all part of the "lie" spoken of by Paul. This is and has been the "strong delusion."

Every point, whether pre, or post, or mid tribulation, and every point regarding the second coming can be dismantled and explained with the scriptures. Every point. However, because each of these beliefs are and have been so strong and long-standing, most have been, are, and will be inclined to reject the actual truth. But here it is, in the fullness of time by the Spirit of "all truth", as promised:

• Tribulations began in the Garden, and continue until the end, all of which are the sum total of the "great tribulation" placed upon Christ.
• Adam was/is the man of sin revealed in all who were and are born since (all "in Adam"). That was the "falling away", and this is all the great apostasy.
• Jesus came, returned to the Father, then beginning at Pentecost began returning--not as one mass physical return--but "in the glory of the Father" (which is in spirit) "not by observation", "at an hour you do not expect"..."but each one [individual] in his own order", in the way He said, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me", as God, Holy and Spirit, as "another Helper."

 

[Sel@h]

True.



The son of man is the False Messiah? I do not read that in Scripture.



Of course. That theorists comes from the premillennial/pre-tribulation rapture camp.



Not the Holy Spirit? Not those in the church with the Holy Spirit? But created celestial being with feathered wings called Archangel Michael?

Ahem!



Oh boy, another one-man/person theory again.



Really, let read:

Revelation 12:7-10 (ESV)
Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.

Humm, you believe that dragon was cast out of literal heaven to Earth to become a False Christ? Yet at that time, there will be celebration that it will be the day of salvation and the kingdom of God be established?

I do not think you understand the verses properly because it will not take place in the future. Selah!




Huh? Show me this with Scripture in reconile with Revelation 12:7-10



I am afraid that you are one of them. The Premillennial with all of her rapture cousins (Pre-, -mid, -post, -prewrath, etc.) is false.



True but there won't be a one-person "Messiah" as you think. Selah!

No, the son of perdition (Satan) is the false messiah. Jesus Christ, the Lord of lords and King of kings is the true Messiah. Satan comes at the 6th trump. Jesus returns at the 7th trump. What you’ve written is not accurate—not true. You need to study in context, brother.

 

[Sel@h]

The good news first, is that there is less to fear than most have anticipated.

The bad news is, every commonly held believe regarding the tribulation and second coming is all part of the "lie" spoken of by Paul. This is and has been the "strong delusion."

Every point, whether pre, or post, or mid tribulation, and every point regarding the second coming can be dismantled and explained with the scriptures. Every point. However, because each of these beliefs are and have been so strong and long-standing, most have been, are, and will be inclined to reject the actual truth. But here it is, in the fullness of time by the Spirit of "all truth", as promised:

• Tribulations began in the Garden, and continue until the end, all of which are the sum total of the "great tribulation" placed upon Christ.
• Adam was/is the man of sin revealed in all who were and are born since (all "in Adam"). That was the "falling away", and this is all the great apostasy.
• Jesus came, returned to the Father, then beginning at Pentecost began returning--not as one mass physical return--but "in the glory of the Father" (which is in spirit) "not by observation", "at an hour you do not expect"..."but each one [individual] in his own order", in the way He said, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me", as God, Holy and Spirit, as "another Helper."

Sorry to say, we don’t agree.

 

[ScottA]

Sorry to say, we don’t agree.

I know it is common to debate, or voice opinions, and discuss such matters, bur that is not what I was doing.

 

[ScottA]

the son of perdition (Satan) is the false messiah. Jesus Christ, the Lord of lords and King of kings is the true Messiah. Satan comes at the 6th trump. Jesus returns at the 7th trump.

These things are true, but not in the way you have thought. The words are spirit, but could not be fully spiritually discerned until the times were fulfilled, which have only recently come to be.

• These are the false and the True: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive."
• This is the 6th trump: "Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
• The 7th trump is the second coming. that knock at the door and His coming into all who are His, "but each one in his own order."

 

[CrowCross]

No, the son of perdition (Satan) is the false messiah. Jesus Christ, the Lord of lords and King of kings is the true Messiah. Satan comes at the 6th trump. Jesus returns at the 7th trump. What you’ve written is not accurate—not true. You need to study in context, brother.

isn't the anti-christ riding the white horse in Rev 6? I believe that's prior to the trumpets.

 

[CrowCross]

The popular "Rapture" theory, specifically the Pre-tribulation view, suggests that Christ will remove the church before the tribulation begins. This view claims believers will be whisked away to safety, avoiding all the fear and chaos of the Antichrist. However, this idea lacks biblical support and suggests a cowardice inconsistent with the faith of those who have died defending the truth. Our protection comes from God, our Rock, not from physical hiding places like caves in Petra.

I disagree. You said....However, this idea lacks biblical support.

In this thread I show where that view is incorrect.

here is what I posted just in case you don't want to visit that thread:

On this forum certain post-trip and one who accepts AMillennialism asked for where the bible speaks of a Pre-tribulation rapture.

Here is my response.

The bible doesn't outright say...."the rapture will be followed by a 7 year tribulation. The bible also doesn't say outright there is a trinity consisting of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But, if you connect the dots a Christian can understand the basic principles of the Godhead.

When the dots surround the rapture of the church are connected the pre-trib rapture becomes obvious.

For example I have shown you the bible presents Jesus as returning on a white horse in Rev 19 and another return where Jesus isn't riding a white horse. I've even presented you with depictions of the event. No white horse at the rapture while defections show a white horse at the Rev 19 return. That's one dot.

I've presented you with a social economic picture mentioned by Christ Jesus that speaks of His return and describes it like the days of Noah and not......which don't align with the social economic days of the end of the tribulation. Another dot to connect.

You have been presented several verses that show Christians....the bride of Christ... are not destined for wrath or the trials of the 7 year tribulation. Another dot to connect.

You have been shown the 7 year tribulation is a judgement for the people of the earth...and should understand Jesus already paid the price for that Judgement concerning Christians on the cross 2,000 years ago.....another dot to connect.

Another dot to connect would be the many mansions (dwelling places) in heaven that Jesus is currently building and the promise of His return to take us there. This fits in with the Jewish engagement and wedding of the times of Christ.

I have shown you another dot with the 2 Thes 2 mention of the gathering and removal of the restrainer and departure that happens prior to the 7 year tribulation. One more dot to connect.

You have been shown that the Church isn't mentioned by name after after chapter 4 of Revelations (19 times prior to chapter 5) and then not again to chapter 20. ....this is another dot.

There's more dots to connect that are buried deeper in scripture that I won't mention.

Dot + dot + dot + dot + dot + dot + dot = a pre-trib rapture. All you need to do is connect them.

Where are your dots to connect that show a single return of Jesus at the end of the tribulation?

Let me know if you would like to discuss any of those dot.

 

[Sel@h]

isn't the anti-christ riding the white horse in Rev 6? I believe that's prior to the trumpets.

Hi, CC …
In Revelation 6:2, there is a rider on a white horse with a crown and a bow who goes out to take over the world. This is actually Satan pretending to be the Antichrist. He doesn't come fighting a war—since he has no arrows—but instead tricks people by pretending to bring peace. He looks powerful, but it's all a fake. He uses flashy tricks and fake miracles to fool people into following him.

This rider is very different from the real Jesus, who shows up later in Revelation 19 in all His glory. The "bow" this first rider carries is like a cheap imitation, showing that everything the Antichrist offers is a lie. He targets people who are desperate to escape their lives by promising them whatever they want. Those who don't really know the Bible will be the easiest to fool, just like some of the churches mentioned earlier in the book. In the end, once the real Christ returns, this fake rider will be defeated and thrown into the pit.

 

[CrowCross]

Hi, CC …
In Revelation 6:2, there is a rider on a white horse with a crown and a bow who goes out to take over the world. This is actually Satan pretending to be the Antichrist. He doesn't come fighting a war—since he has no arrows—but instead tricks people by pretending to bring peace. He looks powerful, but it's all a fake. He uses flashy tricks and fake miracles to fool people into following him.

This rider is very different from the real Jesus, who shows up later in Revelation 19 in all His glory. The "bow" this first rider carries is like a cheap imitation, showing that everything the Antichrist offers is a lie. He targets people who are desperate to escape their lives by promising them whatever they want. Those who don't really know the Bible will be the easiest to fool, just like some of the churches mentioned earlier in the book. In the end, once the real Christ returns, this fake rider will be defeated and thrown into the pit.

Then why in previous post did you say...."Satan comes at the 6th trump. Jesus returns at the 7th trump"...when the seal judgements are prior to the trump judgements?

 

[Sel@h]

Then why in previous post did you say...."Satan comes at the 6th trump. Jesus returns at the 7th trump"...when the seal judgements are prior to the trump judgements?

What I posted were the seals (just the knowledge of what will happen), not the trumps.

 

[TribulationSigns]

No, the son of perdition (Satan) is the false messiah. Jesus Christ, the Lord of lords and King of kings is the true Messiah. Satan comes at the 6th trump. Jesus returns at the 7th trump. What you’ve written is not accurate—not true. You need to study in context, brother.

Where, exactly, does Scripture say that the son of perdition will be a “false messiah”? Show us the passage. Quote the actual words of Scripture and explain them in their proper context. Do not present your speculation as biblical fact.

It is not enough to make a claim and expect others to accept it. If you claim that a particular doctrine is biblical, then bear the responsibility of proving it from Scripture—not by assumptions, conjecture, or twisting passages to fit your interpretation.

You are the one who needs to learn how to handle the Word of God properly, quote Scripture accurately, and explain its context before making dogmatic claims. Remember, Scripture is the authority, not your personal speculation.

“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” — 1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV)

Selah!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Hi, CC …
In Revelation 6:2, there is a rider on a white horse with a crown and a bow who goes out to take over the world. This is actually Satan pretending to be the Antichrist.

LOL. Typical premillennial fantasy. You are speculating that the white horse of Revelation 6 is Satan or antichrist who will take over the world without fighting a war?

He doesn't come fighting a war—since he has no arrows—but instead tricks people by pretending to bring peace. He looks powerful, but it's all a fake. He uses flashy tricks and fake miracles to fool people into following him.

This rider is very different from the real Jesus, who shows up later in Revelation 19 in all His glory. The "bow" this first rider carries is like a cheap imitation, showing that everything the Antichrist offers is a lie. He targets people who are desperate to escape their lives by promising them whatever they want. Those who don't really know the Bible will be the easiest to fool, just like some of the churches mentioned earlier in the book. In the end, once the real Christ returns, this fake rider will be defeated and thrown into the pit.

"Selah", your interpretation of Revelation 6:2 is not what the text explicitly says. You are imposing a premillennial framework onto the passage and then identifying the rider as Satan, evil person, supernatural man, or the Antichrist who appears as peaceful man without sufficient scriptural warrant.

The rider on the white horse is not merely someone "who looks like" or "pretend" to be Christ. The imagery is consistent with Christ going forth victoriously to conquer through His Word and accomplish His redemptive purposes.

Consider the biblical evidence.

1. The white horseman goes forth conquering and to conquer.

Revelation 6:2 (KJV) says:

“And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.”

Notice what the text actually says: a white horse, a bow, a crown, and a rider going forth conquering. It does not say that the rider is Satan, the Antichrist, or a false messiah. Those identifications are interpretations imposed upon the text, not explicit statements made by John.

2. Christ is the One who goes forth conquering.

Revelation 19:11–16 presents Christ riding a white horse, called “Faithful and True,” judging and making war in righteousness. Verse 16 identifies Him as “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Revelation 19:15 declares:

“And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations.”

The sword proceeding from Christ’s mouth signifies the power of His Word in salvation and judgment. Compare Hebrews 4:12, which declares that the Word of God is “quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword.”

Therefore, the imagery of Christ going forth victoriously is entirely consistent with His conquest through the proclamation of His Word. We must not assume that every detail in Revelation 6 must be identical to the imagery in Revelation 19, but neither should we arbitrarily turn the first rider into Satan.

3. Christ conquers through the Gospel and the power of His Word.

Psalm 45:3–5 describes the victorious King with His arrows piercing His enemies. Verse 5 says:

“Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.”

Compare this with Ephesians 6:17, which calls the Word of God “the sword of the Spirit,” and 2 Corinthians 10:4–5, which teaches that the weapons of our warfare are mighty through God to pull down strongholds and bring thoughts into captivity to the obedience of Christ.

Christ does not need to conquer every enemy through physical warfare. Through His Word, He calls His elect, brings sinners to the knowledge of the truth, and triumphs over opposition to His kingdom. His Word pierces the heart, exposes sin, and brings His people into submission to His lordship.

4. Christ has a people whom He gathers through His Word.

John 10:27–28 says:

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish.”

Romans 10:17 declares:

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”

The victorious advance of Christ’s kingdom is not dependent upon a worldly ruler promising peace, nor upon the speculative scenarios of modern end-times teachers. Christ gathers His sheep, and His Word accomplishes His purpose. It is the Word of God that comes out of Christ that pierces the sinners to repent. This is what the bow signifies.

5. Do not confuse an interpretation with an explicit statement of Scripture.

Some popular interpreters identify the rider in Revelation 6:2 as the Antichrist, often contrasting him with Christ in Revelation 19. However, Revelation 6:2 itself NEVER identifies the rider as Satan or the Antichrist. The absence of arrows is also not stated; John says the rider has a bow, but does not tell us whether it has "arrows." The point is the bow represents the instrument of Christ's conquest through HIS WORD, not a physical weapon requiring literal arrow. Again the Word of God pierces the hearts of sinners, bringing conviction and calling God's elect to repentance and faith over the period of the New Testament period where He works through His Church to prophesy His Gospel. After all the Elect are secured by the witness of the Two Witnesses (Church), the red, black, and pale horses comes which is what the great tribulation is about! Selah!

Now, therefore, your claim that the rider is Satan pretending to be the Antichrist is not an explicit teaching of the passage. It is an interpretation that must be demonstrated from Scripture rather than asserted as established fact.

The white horseman represents Christ going forth victoriously, conquering through His Word and accomplishing His sovereign purposes. The identification is an interpretation of the symbolism, but it must be evaluated by the whole counsel of God—not dismissed merely because it does not fit a premillennial scheme.

Selah, the question is simple: Where does Revelation 6:2 actually say that the rider is Satan or the Antichrist? Show us the text in its context. Do not ask others to accept your speculation as though John explicitly wrote it.

“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” — 1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV)

Selah!

 

[CrowCross]

What I posted were the seals (just the knowledge of what will happen), not the trumps.

You said Satan comes at the 6th trump....I showed you where I believe it is the first seal.
Do you agree or disagree.

 

[Sel@h]

You said Satan comes at the 6th trump....I showed you where I believe it is the first seal.
Do you agree or disagree.

I agree.

Revelation 6:2 "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

The rider of this white horse is Satan, in the role of the Antichrist. Satan will come first as the fake Christ, the Antichrist and he will ride and conquer the people of the entire earth.

We see the first seal in detail in the 9th chapter. It takes place after the fifth trumpet sounds, Satan is the first “morning star” to come. This event will catch many Christians off-guard, for many tie themselves to the '"rapture doctrine" and will worship the Antichrist as the true Christ in ignorance. This is why the rapture doctrine is so dangerous—it ties its followers to the first Christ to come, who is the Antichrist!

Here is the true MESSIAH riding in:

Revelation 19:11-16 (NKJV) 11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes [were] like a flame of fire, and on His head [were] many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He [was] clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on [His] robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree.

Revelation 6:2 "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

The rider of this white horse is Satan, in the role of the Antichrist. Satan will come first as the fake Christ, the Antichrist and he will ride and conquer the people of the entire earth.

We see the first seal in detail in the 9th chapter. It takes place after the fifth trumpet sounds, Satan is the first “morning star” to come. This event will catch many Christians off-guard, for many tie themselves to the '"rapture doctrine" and will worship the Antichrist as the true Christ in ignorance. This is why the rapture doctrine is so dangerous—it ties its followers to the first Christ to come, who is the Antichrist!

Here is the true MESSIAH riding in:

Revelation 19:11-16 (NKJV) 11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes [were] like a flame of fire, and on His head [were] many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He [was] clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on [His] robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

You equate the timing of the first seal with the timing of the fifth trumpet? If so, that's a new one.

 

[Sel@h]

You equate the timing of the first seal with the timing of the fifth trumpet? If so, that's a new one.

I didn’t say that. Go read it again.. I said after the fifth trumpet sounds.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I didn’t say that. Go read it again.. I said after the fifth trumpet sounds.

So, you have the first seal event occurring some time after the fifth trumpet sounds? That's still a new one to me. How long after?

 

[Sel@h]

So, you have the first seal event occurring some time after the fifth trumpet sounds? That's still a new one to me. How long after?

Let’s put it this way, plain and simple. Satan comes before Jesus. Satan comes at the 6th trump; Jesus comes at the 7th trump.

Seals are just the knowledge of what we need to know about the end times.