The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming

[amigo de christo]

I suppose you're entitled to your opinion.

man is not entitled . I cannot and will not hear that on my watch .
Enough with this .
WE , that means ME , YOU and humanity is not entitled to our opinion when that opinion is in any tittle or dot contrary
to ALL MIGHTY GOD .
And may YOU , may I and may all LONG REMEBER this .
because not you , not i , not humanity is G OD .
I have come to bring us back to putting GOD , HIS CHRIST, FIRST AGAIN .
You are not
I am not
and they are not ENTITLED to any opinion when or if that opinion be contrary to The words of the ONE TRUE LI VING
GOD who created all things by JESUS CHRIST .
call it hate speech if you like . But any love that puts humanity and or his opinion before GOD is a love that will not
be allowed on my watch .
b ecause it is a sensual love that is only of this world .
THEREFORE f rom here on out the saying will be
Ye are free to express any opinoin you like , SO LONG as it in no way contradicts THE MOST HOLY GOD
HIS CHRIST and thus His words and his g ospel .
Now you may return to this post . Have a blessed day now .

 

[amigo de christo]

I appreciate your sentiments, but I think that the rancor expressed in this forum would not allow inclusion in the same church.

And now a word .
And this word is a general reminder to all .
it will be a cold day in the lake of fire long before i follow or heed inclusion or its delusion .
And you might wanna ask , before just condeming me , why i made such a statement .
You would marvel and marvel indeed
if you knew that not only can satan say God is love , not only can satan himself
seem lov ing and seem as though he is pro humanity and for its good .
Not only can satan say judge not God is l ove ,
BUDDY he has millions to bilions of co workers who now sell this inclusvie love of his
and of his ecumeincal harlot to many .
The delusion of inclusion is massive . And oh yeah satan can say GOD is love and judge not
BUT boy does he twist the version of it
into ALLOWING leaven to remain , while silencing the lips of those who expose it with a judge not
and the leaven grows . And while it grows when others come in to warn and to correct
its judge not God is love . ALL IT DID was allow
leaven in and leaven to remain and leaven to grow . till now many love a lie
and are hard core haters and judgers of THE VERY WORDS OF GOD in that bible
that does so expose the very sin and lie they LOVE and even bleieve to be of GOD .
WHEN IT IS ALL of satan masquerading as though he is god and is love . OH he is liar . OH is he a liar .

 

[CrowCross]

Sorry if my post is a bit lengthy. I don't like to discuss things with one liners like you typically do. I like to see how someone is reasoning through something, such as I am here. But that's me. Not everyone is me, I guess.

I typically use one liners to a person after explaining something several times.

When I mention "social economical conditions" I assume you know what I mean concerning the days of Noah and the social economical conditions of that day and how those social economical conditions won't apply to the end of the 7 year tribulation. This alone is one more of the many evidences of a pre-trib return of Christ at the rapture mentioned in 1 Thes 4.

The ones worshiping the beast aren't experiencing great tribulation in the same manner as those refusing to worship it. Look at Revelation 13. That is meaning great tribulation.

The ones experiencing Rev 13 have gone through the 4 horsemen...not good times....as well as Rev 8, read that chapter and the 1/3 of this and that destroyed.

Does any of the following sound like they are experiencing great tribulation in the manner you think they are?

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Even though I didn't include verse 7, but look at verse 7 and then verse 15---And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them---and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Things escalate in the tribulation.

Are those things also happening to those worshiping the beast during great tribulation? No! In comparison, those worshiping the beast, life goes on as usual. And verse 17, for another, proves it. They can still buy and sell, the ones not worshiping the beast can't. But you want us to believe nonsense, that great tribulation is affecting everyone on the earth in the same manner.

Life will not be going on as usual during Rev 13 for those who have taken the mark as well as those that haven't taken the mark. It will be much more difficult for those who haven't taken the mark.

When 1 Thessalonians 5:3 is meaning---in regard to saying peace and safety, it is meaning when they are worshiping the beast during it's 42 month reign. It is when they can freely buy and sell but those refusing to worship it can't. Pretribbers, just like Preterists, conflate great tribulation with the wrath of God and judgment.

Here's where the one liner fits.

I doubt it. I don't think you understand what "peace and safety" means.

The wrath of God is not being poured out during great tribulation. That is absurd. As if it makes sense, that during the wrath of God would they then be saying this--Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Well, if you think it's absurd...I can't really deal with you.

Thanks for the talk.

If the wrath of God does not involve making war with the beast, then I give up. Once again, this---Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?---undeniably proves that the wrath of God is not underway at the time. The wrath of God doesn't begin until the 7th trumpet. The reign of the beast is during the 6th trumpet.

 

[CrowCross]

man is not entitled . I cannot and will not hear that on my watch .

Entitled means allowed....because you are allowed an opinion it doesn't make it right.

 

[amigo de christo]

Entitled means allowed....because you are allowed an opinion it doesn't make it right.

well lets use the word allowed . but know this
IF that opinion that is allowed to be spoken or typed
Contradicts the TRUTH of the MOST HOLY GOD , HIS scriptures , His words
Guess what WONT be allowed to remain on my watch . the false doctrine
and then guess who wont be allowed , IF THEY REPENT NOT of it , to remain in church company .
THE ONE who supports sin , or a lie , thus false doctrine .
Now i am sure that most see this as jugmental and as hateful .
BUT ITS NEITHER CONDEMNATION NOR HATEFUL .
ITs love in action . that corrects , that helps to keep the church safe and
to help the one in error to be led to repentance of said e rror .
So remember this my friend . I am not the hater this all inclusvie ecumeincal generation accuses me of being .
FOR i am not the one who hates my neighbor in my heart . THEY DO , their love does .
And how so .
WELL it is wri tten that YOU shall NOT HATE , as in NOT HATE your neighbor in your heart
but you WILL CORRECT HIM and NOT ALLOW sin upon him .
THEIR LOVE wont correct sins and errors , THUS IT IS HATE and NOT LOVE .
WE correct because we DESIRE their repentance and their good . but satan
is very wise and he has turned this JUDGE NOT GOD IS LOVE , INTO HATE . as he twisted it .

 

[amigo de christo]

Entitled means allowed....because you are allowed an opinion it doesn't make it right.

it can be easy to misunderstand or misjudge what one means on the internet especially .
THIS is why rather than accusing the warner
we should always ask them questions first .
So if you do have any questions , or pehaps something i am saying seems off to you ,
YOU ask me to explain it .
And meanwhile i give us all this advice as well .
LETS G ET ourselves back into daily bible reading for ourselves .
YOU , my friend , would marvel at just how quickly things can be cleared up .
Its true that many are going to hate the message and correction we bring .
Beause many love their sin and the image of a god that serves and accepts such sin .
BUT its also true that its time we start asking questions .
So if anything i have written has either not been clear or etc
START asking me to explain . I will also do the same . The faster we get this cleared up
the better .
Because when i warn us all that satan has overtaken many churches , i am not kidding at all .
Ecumeincalsim in clusivsim intefaith IS of the dark one
but claoked to sound as if it is of GOD and is love and is his plan for peace .
Now if you have any questoins a bout that , start asking and i will do my best to explain .

 

[ThomasDGW]

If you're resentful (rancor) of a particular church's belief....why would you want to join that church?

What gave you the idea that I am resentful of anything? I said that the rancor expressed in this forum will not allow church unity.

 

[Sel@h]

Tell us Mr expert, is this passage the rapture or the wicked taken?
Who is the half taken, when are they taken, and in what setting.
Mat 24
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I believe “the one shall be taken “ is the one taken (or deceived) by the AC.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It doesn't matter. All that matters is that it is AFTER the tribulation. Don't jerk it out of context, go back up to verse 29.

Mt 24:29-30
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

It is YOU who has no verses...zero, nada, null

Yep keep it in context.
No need to jerk the thing around .
It says AFTER the trib ANGELS GATHER, NOT JESUS.
And that gathering is IN HEAVEN.

Your one and only verse points to the pretrib rapture.
How ironic that 10 or so verses later,( that you have not ever seen) tells you THE SETTING AND TIMING OFBTHE RAPTURE.
( The verses you say do not matter).

You guys painted yourseld into a corner.
It says one taken, preflood, in a everyday life setting, and one left behind, preflood, in a everyday life setting.
But I know you are set in what your teachers taught you.

It is hard to process someone saying, "scripture does not matter."
Wow

 

[Davidpt]

Thinking out loud here...

Let’s look at the Pretrib timeline. In 1 Thessalonians 5:3, the world is saying Peace and safety right before sudden destruction comes upon them. Pretribbers claim this peace and safety describes the state of the world before great tribulation begins, before the church is removed.

But look at Revelation 11:8-10. The 2Ws have just been killed. The text explicitly says that they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them.

In the Pretrib timeline, this global celebration, gift giving, and absolute relief happens inside the great tribulation, long after your rapture.

This global merry making is the exact definition of a world feeling peace and safety because their tormentors are dead.

Immediately after this celebration (v. 11-19), the 7th Trumpet sounds and the final, catastrophic judgments of God begin. That is the sudden destruction.

How can Pretribbers then claim peace and safety only happens before the tribulation, when Revelation 11 explicitly shows the entire wicked world celebrating a state of peace and safety right in the middle of it? The Pretrib timeline contradicts the very text of Revelation.

 

[Davidpt]

I believe “the one shall be taken “ is the one taken (or deceived) by the AC.

If you look in Strong's you should note that the Greek word for 'took' in verse 39 is not the same Greek word for 'taken' in verse 40. Which then can mean taken in verse 40 is a good thing, being left is a bad thing. But even so, this hardly implies only a Pretrib rapture. It can work with a Posttrib rapture just as well.

 

[amigo de christo]

I believe “the one shall be taken “ is the one taken (or deceived) by the AC.

while its true many are now even being decieved by that which is of anti ch rist , read it again sister .
The one taken and the other left .
WHERE LORD , where the bodies be there shall the vultures be gathered ,
AKA the birds gonna be feeding on their dead bodies , cause oh yeah they did reject JESUS .
Sister there is something i want to let you know . so i will send it on the next response .
ITS concerning the delusion .

 

[Sel@h]

Thinking out loud here...

Let’s look at the Pretrib timeline. In 1 Thessalonians 5:3, the world is saying Peace and safety right before sudden destruction comes upon them. Pretribbers claim this peace and safety describes the state of the world before great tribulation begins, before the church is removed.

But look at Revelation 11:8-10. The 2Ws have just been killed. The text explicitly says that they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them.

In the Pretrib timeline, this global celebration, gift giving, and absolute relief happens inside the great tribulation, long after your rapture.

This global merry making is the exact definition of a world feeling peace and safety because their tormentors are dead.

Immediately after this celebration (v. 11-19), the 7th Trumpet sounds and the final, catastrophic judgments of God begin. That is the sudden destruction.

How can Pretribbers then claim peace and safety only happens before the tribulation, when Revelation 11 explicitly shows the entire wicked world celebrating a state of peace and safety right in the middle of it? The Pretrib timeline contradicts the very text of Revelation.

I very much agree.

 

[Sel@h]

while its true many are now even being decieved by that which is of anti ch rist , read it again sister .
The one taken and the other left .
WHERE LORD , where the bodies be there shall the vultures be gathered ,
AKA the birds gonna be feeding on their dead bodies , cause oh yeah they did reject JESUS .
Sister there is something i want to let you know . so i will send it on the next response .
ITS concerning the delusion .

Hello friend, Please post the scripture regarding the birds feeding on their dead bodies. Thanks.

 

[amigo de christo]

I believe “the one shall be taken “ is the one taken (or deceived) by the AC.

What did paul say GOD would send . A strong delusion .
And who does this lying spirit that was allowed to be sent by GOD go too .
UPON all who had rejected the love of the truth whereby they may be saved .
Now this LIE they will beleive is for their damnation .
Now lets back the truck up to the first letter .
What did paul say They would be saying right before their own sudden destruction came raining down upon them all
and they would not escape .
PEACE N SAFETY .
So now tell me . DO YOU SEE a delusion occuring right now .
That is causing many to now merge under a lie . OH you DO S ISTER . you might not know what i am yet talking about
BUT I BET YOU SEEN IT TOO sister .
What one event has come upon them . and when i say them
I MEAN the false religoins as well as a lot of christendom .
What do you see sister .
More and more leaders of christendom , from protesatant to RCC and greek or thodox ande etc
are now joining hands also with hindus , buddists , unbelievig jews , muslims .
AND what are they all chanting GOD IS LOVE
and what are they all saying , WE ALL SERVE THE SAME GOD .
THERE IT IS . JESUS has obviously been denied , HIS GOSPEL HAS , thus that means HE HAS .
And now they all are chanting
HEY we all serve the same GOD . and all relgions are coming to the same GOD .
That all religoins serve the same GOD we christains do .
SO WE SEE THE LIE . BUT here is the kicker .
WHAT DO THEY BELIEVE . THEY cry aloud and they say
WE must come together as one , we all serve the same GOD
and we must find common ground f or .............................................
and WOE WOE WOE t hey do BELEIVE this is the means by how to attain .................................................
What is it sister . what it is that they BELIEVE , that those who BELIVE THE LIE THAT WE ALL SERVE
the same GOD , beleive . That this is GODS PLAN .
HIS plan for what s ister .
WHAT IS IT they beleive they can attain by this coming together as one . PEACE N SA FETY .
AND THERE IT IS SISTER for all to see .
THE STRONG DELUISOIN IS HERE SISTER . ITS HERE and they bleive it will usher them PEACE N SAFETY .
It aint coming sister , ITS HERE and its only growing now .

 

[rebuilder 454]

I believe “the one shall be taken “ is the one taken (or deceived) by the AC.

So some decieved individuals are raptured to a good place pretrib?
And Jesus tells those decieved ones to watch and be ready?

You obviously are listening to the wrong teachers.

 

[Marvelloustime]

What did paul say GOD would send . A strong delusion .
And who does this lying spirit that was allowed to be sent by GOD go too .
UPON all who had rejected the love of the truth whereby they may be saved .
Now this LIE they will beleive is for their damnation .
Now lets back the truck up to the first letter .
What did paul say They would be saying right before their own sudden destruction came raining down upon them all
and they would not escape .
PEACE N SAFETY .
So now tell me . DO YOU SEE a delusion occuring right now .
That is causing many to now merge under a lie . OH you DO S ISTER . you might not know what i am yet talking about
BUT I BET YOU SEEN IT TOO sister .
What one event has come upon them . and when i say them
I MEAN the false religoins as well as a lot of christendom .
What do you see sister .
More and more leaders of christendom , from protesatant to RCC and greek or thodox ande etc
are now joining hands also with hindus , buddists , unbelievig jews , muslims .
AND what are they all chanting GOD IS LOVE
and what are they all saying , WE ALL SERVE THE SAME GOD .
THERE IT IS . JESUS has obviously been denied , HIS GOSPEL HAS , thus that means HE HAS .
And now they all are chanting
HEY we all serve the same GOD . and all relgions are coming to the same GOD .
That all religoins serve the same GOD we christains do .
SO WE SEE THE LIE . BUT here is the kicker .
WHAT DO THEY BELIEVE . THEY cry aloud and they say
WE must come together as one , we all serve the same GOD
and we must find common ground f or .............................................
and WOE WOE WOE t hey do BELEIVE this is the means by how to attain .................................................
What is it sister . what it is that they BELIEVE , that those who BELIVE THE LIE THAT WE ALL SERVE
the same GOD , beleive . That this is GODS PLAN .
HIS plan for what s ister .
WHAT IS IT they beleive they can attain by this coming together as one . PEACE N SA FETY .
AND THERE IT IS SISTER for all to see .
THE STRONG DELUISOIN IS HERE SISTER . ITS HERE and they bleive it will usher them PEACE N SAFETY .
It aint coming sister , ITS HERE and its only growing now .

@amigo de christo

 

[shepherdsword]

Yep keep it in context.
No need to jerk the thing around .
It says AFTER the trib ANGELS GATHER, NOT JESUS.
And that gathering is IN HEAVEN.

Who are the angels gathering and to where are they gathering?

Mt 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Your one and only verse points yo the pretrib rapture.

All of the so called "rapture" verses are referring to the second coming

How ironic that 10 or so verses ( that you have not ever seen) tells you THE SETTING AND TIMING OFBTHE RAPTURE.
( The verses you say do not matter).

I didn't say the verses didn't matter. I said the way you try to twist them doesn't matter since they occur after the tribulation. As proven by the text

You guys painted yourseld into a corner.
It says one taken, preflood, in a everyday life setting, and one left behind, preflood, in a everyday life setting.
But I know you are set in what your teachers taught you.

It is hard to process someone saying, "scripture does not matter."
Wow

Stop with your lies that I said scripture doesn't matter. It's the way you wrest and twist them that doesn't matter. Why? because Mt 24:38-42 occur after the Lord clearly said He would return after the tribulation. There is no room for some super secret rapture that occurs without people seeing him.

We are told how the Lord will return...and it's not some secret rapture.


Ac 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Rv 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Mt 24:29-30
9 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

When Jesus returns every eye will see him. It's not some secret descent for those eating their happy meal

 

[Marvelloustime]

while its true many are now even being decieved by that which is of anti ch rist , read it again sister .
The one taken and the other left .
WHERE LORD , where the bodies be there shall the vultures be gathered ,
AKA the birds gonna be feeding on their dead bodies , cause oh yeah they did reject JESUS .
Sister there is something i want to let you know . so i will send it on the next response .
ITS concerning the delusion .

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

I very much agree.

me too sister . and g uess what else .
Not only is that delusion here .
I want us to go and examine something else .
GO to and behold exactly what this AI LED , image speaking led , digital system can do .
CUT OUT all buying and selling for those who CONFORM NOT .
but look ag ain and ye shall see something else
about this AI image speaking system .
AI can see anything typed ,written , hear what is spoken over a phone .
And is connected into camera survelliance systems .
So what can this AI do you might be wondering .
Well once enforced , and soon it will be ,
IF say you and i are typing on a computer
or maybe talking on the phone
WHEN key words are said , or typed
they can be routed instantly to a data base that routes them instantly
to the nearest police station .
So we have our chat . We hang all . all seems well .
TILL you hear
a rapping at your chamber door
and i will hear it too in my own town .
AND it aint gonna be a raven a rapping and a tapping on our chamber door .
THOUGH they will be d ressed in black as a raven and be holding a bull horn
saying COME OUT ye have been determined and deemed a potential terroist
and off to a camp you go
and off to a camp i go .
AND NOW A WORD .
And he giveth life unto the image of the beast so that it can SPEAK
and CAUSE those who did not worship the image to b e KILLED .
AI can DO THIS . it can route anything we will say or type and cause
our arrest and dentention .
AND keep reading revleation thirteen .
cause it also sits over
A DIGITAL system . And he cuases all both small and great , poor and rich
to receive a mark in their forhead or hand
and that no ONE might buy OR SELL save HE WHO has the mark .
ITS HERE AREADY , JUST LIKE THE STRONG DELUSION IS ALREADY here sister .
And its about to go from the ecuemincal phase of , OH LETS JUST bE ONE
to the crusades of CONFORM OR DIE . its coming sister . ITS AT the door . the hour of our betrayal is at the door .