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robert derrick

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The best source for Scriptural proof that Jehovah was the name for the LORD God of Israel, and Jesus is now the name for the risen LORD is right before our eyes in prophecy itself: It is the Lord Jesus who fulfills all the prophecies about the LORD Jehovah.

(Isaiah 42)

I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.


The LORD prophesied His own doings, which are confirmed fulfilled as the Lord Jesus.

To say that the LORD did it by the hand of the Lord Jesus only, not by His own hand is a lie: Otherwise He would be giving His glory to another, which He said He would not do.

Such sophistry also suggests whensoever God speaks of something He will do, He will never actually do it Himself, and so God has never done anything Himself nor ever will do anything Himself, and is not a doer of His own word of prophecy, but a talker only.

Isaiah 13:

Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


The prophecy about the day of the LORD Jehovah's coming is fulfilled by the day of the Lord Jesus' return. The wrath of the LORD of hosts is the wrath of the Lamb, who is the KING of KINGS, and LORD of LORDS.

Every Scripture of prophecy about the LORD Jehovah in the covenant of old is fulfilled by the Lord Jesus in the new.

It is not just prophecy of the LORD speaking of a servant to come to do His will, but is sure prophecy about the LORD Himself to come and do His own will upon earth: that is the Lord Jesus Christ, whose name was Jehovah, before He did come down out of heaven upon the earth to fulfill His prophecies of Himself, and is now called Jesus, whose name is above every name God Almighty was ever called.
 
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Scriptural proof that Jehovah was the name for the LORD God of Israel
Also Very Interesting Is The Name "Jehovah" Is Attributed To
BOTH The Father, and To The SON!
Amen?:

Gen 19:24 Then The LORD (Jehovah) rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from The LORD (Jehovah) out of heaven;
 

robert derrick

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For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

The LORD God is the risen Sun of righteousness with healing in his wings: The risen Lord Jesus Christ.

O LORD of hosts, blessed is the man that trusteth in thee.

And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.


If the Lord Jesus was but a man like other men, and later deified only, and not the LORD Himself, then them that trust in Jesus are trusting in a deified man only, and so trusting in other than the LORD Himself: idolatry.

As it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.

The prophecy about the Gentiles praising the LORD was never fulfilled in His name Jehovah, but only in His name Jesus Christ.

Created christs are idolizers of a jehovah that was never the LORD, who is now the Lord Jesus Christ in whose name the Gentiles trust.
 
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Paul Christensen

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............................................
It is true that the word for God (theos) in the New Testament is masculine, and masculine pronouns (“he,” “him,” “himself”) are always used with it. The word “Father” is also in the masculine gender in the original Greek of the NT, and masculine pronouns are always used with it. The word “Son” is also in the masculine gender in the NT Greek, and masculine pronouns are always used with it. Certainly this is not surprising since God (Jehovah, the Father alone) has always been represented to his people as a living, conscious being, and Christ (Jesus, the Son) is always represented as a living, conscious person. It would be very strange, indeed, if they were not so described!

But “Holy Spirit” in the original Greek is neuter (and feminine in Hebrew which has no neuter gender) and therefore the neuter pronouns meaning “it,” “itself” are used with it in the original NT Greek! Any strictly literal Bible translation would have to use “it” for the holy spirit (since it is really not a person, but God’s active force, a literal translation would be helpful in this case).

As the trinitarian New American Bible (Catholic), 1970 ed. admits:
“The Greek word for ‘spirit’ is neuter, and while we [trinitarians] use personal pronouns in English (‘he,’ ‘his,’ ‘him’), most Greek manuscripts employ ‘it.’” - New American Bible, St. Joseph ed., (footnote for John 14:17).

And the revised NAB of 1991 has actually changed “he/him” back to the literal “it”!

Also see An American Translation by trinitarians Smith & Goodspeed which uses “itself” and “it” for the holy spirit at Romans 8:16, 26, 27.

Here are the rules of Greek grammar that govern this situation. Professor Machen, writing in his New Testament Greek For Beginners, tells us:
“(II.) The noun for which a pronoun stands is called its antecedent. Thus in the sentence, ‘I see the disciple and teach him’, the antecedent of ‘him’ is ‘disciple.’
(III.) A pronoun agrees with its antecedent in GENDER and number.
“Examples: (a) Bleto ton matheten kai didasko auton, [is translated] ‘I see the disciple and teach him.’ Here matheten [‘disciple’] is the antecedent of auton [‘him’], and since matheten is of masculine gender and singular number, auton [αὐτὸν] is also masculine singular.“(b) Meno en to oiko kai ginosko auton [is rendered in English as] ‘I remain in the house and know it.’ Here oiko [‘house’] is the antecedent of auton [‘him’ in the original NT Greek] and since oiko is of masculine gender and singular number auton also is masculine singular [in the NT Greek]. In English the neuter pronoun ‘it’ is used, because the noun ‘house’ like all nouns denoting inanimate objects, is neuter in English. But in Greek the word for house is masculine, and therefore the masculine pronoun is used in referring to it. Hence the translations, ‘he,’ ‘she,’ etc... for the masculine and feminine of the Greek pronoun of the third person are correct only when the antecedents are denoting persons. In other cases, the pronouns will be neuter in English even when they are masculine or feminine in Greek.” - pp. 47-48.

In other words, even if the Greek words for ‘holy spirit’ were in the masculine gender (and, therefore, the Greek masculine pronouns would be used with it), it still would not indicate that the holy spirit must be a person! Just as in many other languages things are often given feminine and masculine genders in Bible Greek.

However, since its literal 'name' (“holy spirit”) is really neuter in the NT Greek and really uses the neuter pronoun (“it”) and takes the neuter definite article (Gr. to), there is the extremely high probability, from grammar alone, that it is not a person.

The fact that it is in the feminine gender in Hebrew, which is often used in place of a neuter gender, adds to this probability.
If there was an option, I would have rated your post as "informative". I understand your reasoning. However, the spanner in the works may be where the Holy Spirit said in Acts 13:2, "Separate me Paul and Barnabas..." etc., which suggests that Luke viewed the Holy Spirit as a person who could speak and give instructions. Also there are places where the Holy Spirit guided Paul, for example, not allowing him to go into Asia to preach the Gospel.

As a matter of interest, what was the Greek gender for "comforter" when Jesus was telling them about the coming of the Holy Spirit? Also, where the Apostle John speaks of the "anointing" who will teach us all things? Wouldn't these imply that the Holy Spirit is an intelligent Person who can speak, instruct, guide, and teach believers?

Just askin'...
 

JunChosen

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As a matter of interest, what was the Greek gender for "comforter" when Jesus was telling them about the coming of the Holy Spirit? Also, where the Apostle John speaks of the "anointing" who will teach us all things? Wouldn't these imply that the Holy Spirit is an intelligent Person who can speak, instruct, guide, and teach believers?

Just askin'...

Indeed the Holy Spirit IS NOT an "IT" but a Person who speaks, instructs, guides, and teaches believers!!!

But let us read what Jesus the greatest Teacher of all have to say about the Holy Spirit in John 14:16-17; 15:26; and 16:7-9:
16) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you ANOTHER Comforter, that HE may abide with for ever;
17) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with with you, and shall be in you
26) But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
7) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you,
8) And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement:
9) Of sin, because they believe not on me.

O Father how wise and all knowing thou art. Thou has given many warnings yet we have not paid heed to those warnings and in particular:
Hosea 4:6 which reads:
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

To God Be The Glory

 

robert derrick

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Also Very Interesting Is The Name "Jehovah" Is Attributed To
BOTH The Father, and To The SON!
Amen?:

Gen 19:24 Then The LORD (Jehovah) rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from The LORD (Jehovah) out of heaven;
Excellent. It always fascinates me how God has given His written Word in such a way as to allow for no disputes of His true doctrine, and He always does so in some plain unmistakable Scripture, which is usually one of the most known by Bible readers!

We try to go and find some 'proof' out in the weeds somewhere with several Scriptures pasted together in some 'enlightened' way, and the simple answer is staring us right in the face the whole time.

Such as, and the Lord said unto my Lord, which Jesus showed spoke of Himself specifically, to demonstrate He was not some son of David by lineage of birth, but only His body was made after David's seed in the likeness of sinful flesh.
 
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robert derrick

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Indeed the Holy Spirit IS NOT an "IT" but a Person who speaks, instructs, guides, and teaches believers!!!

But let us read what Jesus the greatest Teacher of all have to say about the Holy Spirit in John 14:16-17; 15:26; and 16:7-9:
16) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you ANOTHER Comforter, that HE may abide with for ever;
17) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with with you, and shall be in you
26) But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
7) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you,
8) And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement:
9) Of sin, because they believe not on me.

O Father how wise and all knowing thou art. Thou has given many warnings yet we have not paid heed to those warnings and in particular:
Hosea 4:6 which reads:
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

To God Be The Glory
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

What the Spirit says, not what the Force...what? How does a force let us know something?? He hat hath a body, let him feel what the Force blows unto the churches??

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron.

The Spirit speaks. Not the Force. Scripture is not a script for Star Wars.

Interesting how the very Scripture that destroys any notion of a 'Force' is the same warning of seducing spirits forcing people into a created christ cult.

Whatever their personal manner is, which is usually respectful, the created christ people are indeed reprobate to the truth of Scripture.

Their hypocrisy is self evident, in that no matter how often they are created with plain Scripture, they always deflect by some 'ingenious' method of manuscripts, languages, etc...And even when their own self-contradictive reasoning is exposed, they just talk over and around it.

They really aren't concerned about what Scripture really teaches in all areas, but they are simply caught up with intricate weavings of pseudo scholarship.

They are the classic examples of ever learning... In terms of being excited about the science of 'knowledge', they are gnostic in nature.

They don't search the Scripture for the truth of God and eternal life, but only for the enticing fun of changing it to their own liking.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

In this case, that would literally be the Star Wars fable.

In the end, I really don't know why they refuse to allow for the Lord Jesus being the risen LORD Jehovah. As Scripture says, it's not robbery with God, for God to be made flesh.

I suppose it is simply the face that the spirit of error is also the spirit of antichrist, which cannot at all have God coming in the flesh.
 
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robert derrick

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And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Even the created christ folks would admit Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. They in fact say He has so come in the flesh, that He was in the flesh just alike any other mortal being born of Adam.

So, how is this Scripture proving the spirit of antichrist, of which created christs certainly are made??

It's because the apostles and Scripture of the NT plainly teaches Jesus Christ is God the Lord, the Almighty, the Saviour.

From the Word was God, to knowing Him the true God, to the Father, the Word, and the Spirit are one, to honoring the Son as honoring the Father, which is honoring God, etc... There was no dispute among the apostles that Jesus Christ was God and LORD come in the flesh.

The Jews knew to claim to be Christ and Son of God was to be made equal with God. How? Because it was the prophecies about the LORD coming Himself that they were looking for.

The Jews of the OT knew the LORD Himself had prophesied about Himself coming Personally to save them, so that any claiming to be the fulfillment of those prophecies was in fact claiming to be the LORD God Himself, which is exactly what the apostles confirmed after His resurrection for the dead.

So to say, Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, was not for the apostles about a 'special' man coming into the world, but was all about hos God did indeed come in the flesh, which was in opposition to the rising heresy of He was not really a man, but only Christ and God in the form and shape of a man. The heresy was not denying Christ was God, but was denying He came to become a man in the flesh.

Therefore, like Mahomet, the created christ people only acknowledge and honor Jesus Christ as a great of prophet, but they refuse to honor the Son as they do the Father: God Himself.

To them, Jesus was just a created manservant of God in the days of His flesh, and then God honored Him and made Him to be another god alongside Himself.
 
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robert derrick

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Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

The Scriptures being spoken of are those prophesying about the LORD Jehovah in the last days, coming Himself Personally to save His people.

And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

The Jews were refusing Jesus as the fulfillment of the prophecies about their LORD.

The Scriptures of prophecy of how the LORD Himself was come down to earth were fulfilled in the Person of the Lord Jesus.

To say otherwise, is to reject Jesus confirming such prophecies about the LORD Himself testified of Himself.

I receive not honour from men.

They would not honor Him for who He was: The Lord fulfilling the prophesies about the LORD.

Neither do created christs honor Him as honoring the Father: God.

Created christs only give lip service honor to Jesus as a good created man, and so worship another christ.
 
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keithr

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Also Very Interesting Is The Name "Jehovah" Is Attributed To
BOTH The Father, and To The SON!
Amen?:

Gen 19:24 Then The LORD (Jehovah) rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from The LORD (Jehovah) out of heaven;
There is no mention of the Son of God in that verse, so how do you come to the conclusion that YHVH is both God's name and His Son's name?
 

keithr

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... the Lord Jesus Christ, whose name was Jehovah, before He did come down out of heaven upon the earth to fulfill His prophecies of Himself, and is now called Jesus, whose name is above every name God Almighty was ever called.
Have you not heard of the word hallelujah? See Revelation 19 (the only place it occurs, for it is Hebrew words in the Greek manuscripts that was not translated into English, just transliterated into hallelujah), (WEB):

(1) After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Hallelujah! Salvation, power, and glory belong to our God:
(2) for true and righteous are his judgments. For he has judged the great prostitute, who corrupted the earth with her sexual immorality, and he has avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.”
(3) A second said, “Hallelujah! Her smoke goes up forever and ever.”
(4) The twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sits on the throne, saying, “Amen! Hallelujah!”
(5) A voice came from the throne, saying, “Give praise to our God, all you his servants, you who fear him, the small and the great!”
(6) I heard something like the voice of a great multitude, and like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of mighty thunders, saying, “Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns!​

The main Hebrew words are 'halel' and 'jah', and it means "Praise ye Yah". Yah is an abreviated verion of God's name, YHVH. The same expression is used in the Old Testament and is usually translated as "praise [ye] the LORD" or "praise Yah". Also used in the OT is the same expression with 'YHVH' instead of Yah, i.e. using God's full name, meaning "praise YHVH" or "Praise Yahweh", also translated as "praise ye the LORD" in the KJV. An example is Psalms 111:1 -

WEB: (1) Praise Yah! I will give thanks to Yahweh with my whole heart, in the council of the upright, and in the congregation.
KJV: (1) Praise ye the LORD. I will praise the LORD with my whole heart, in the assembly of the upright, and in the congregation.​

So in Revelation 19 the resurrected Christians (represented symbolically by the 24 elders) and others all worship God, the Almighty, praising him with the name YHVH (Yahweh, Yahavah, Jehovah). They do not worship Jesus, or refer to God, the Almighty, as Jesus.
 
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GRACE ambassador

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Gen 19:24 Then The LORD (Jehovah) rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from The LORD (Jehovah) out of heaven;
There is no mention of the Son of God in that verse, so how do you come to the conclusion that YHVH is both God's name and His Son's name?
Precious friend, keithr, thanks for the Excellent question for Bible study:

Confirmation:

1) JESUS Said: "No man hath seen God at any time; The Only Begotten SON,
Which is in The Bosom of The Father, He Hath Declared Him." (John 1:18)

2) So, Who Is "The God (YHWH) That Appeared to Abraham"?:

Gen 18:1 "And The LORD Appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre:
and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;" (Cp Acts 7:2)

3) So, IF "The Holy Spirit" has Never Appeared to anyone (Scripture?),
and "The Father Has Never Appeared to any man, at any time":

Joh 6:46 "Not that any man hath seen The Father, save
He Which Is Of God, He hath seen The Father." (cp 1 John 4:12)

Conclusion: The ONLY Other Person Of The Triune GodHead Would:

Be (YHWH) The SON, The LORD JESUS CHRIST, Who
"appeared to Abraham,"

Correct?

More Confirmation?:
"Complete" Case For Jesus IS Almighty God!
 
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robert derrick

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There is no mention of the Son of God in that verse, so how do you come to the conclusion that YHVH is both God's name and His Son's name?

Jehovah is not the name of both the LORD God of Israel and the risen Lord God of Israel.

Jehovah was the new name of the LORD, which Abraham did not know, and now Jesus is the final name of the risen LORD of LORDS.

Jehovah is no more written for God's name after He called His Son Jesus.
 

robert derrick

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Precious friend, keithr, thanks for the Excellent question for Bible study:

Confirmation:

1) JESUS Said: "No man hath seen God at any time; The Only Begotten SON,
Which is in The Bosom of The Father, He Hath Declared Him." (John 1:18)

2) So, Who Is "The God (YHWH) That Appeared to Abraham"?:

Gen 18:1 "And The LORD Appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre:
and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;" (Cp Acts 7:2)

3) So, IF "The Holy Spirit" has Never Appeared to anyone (Scripture?),
and "The Father Has Never Appeared to any man, at any time":

Joh 6:46 "Not that any man hath seen The Father, save
He Which Is Of God, He hath seen The Father." (cp 1 John 4:12)

Conclusion: The ONLY Other Person Of The Triune GodHead Would:

Be (YHWH) The SON, The LORD JESUS CHRIST, Who
"appeared to Abraham,"

Correct?

More Confirmation?:
"Complete" Case For JESUS Is Almighty God!!
Very gracious of you to supply yet another proof of the truth.

And so, since the Father has not appeared to any man, then it had to be the Son who appeared to Abraham.

Which Paul confirms:

And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

By this Scripture we already know that the covenant of God with Abraham was made by Christ, and now you give Scriptural confirmation that it was Christ who appeared to Abraham to confirm it to him.

We both know the created christ will come up with something very creative to try and undo the truth once again. Like going to the Hebrew and Greek to show that 'appearing' to Abraham is not God 'appearing' to a man, or some such foolishness, but nevertheless you done good.

I keep thinking there can't be anymore ways left to prove the truth, but they just keep coming.

The reason being the errors that inspire study in the truth keeps on coming.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

The errors of false doctrine is the gift that keeps on giving to them that love the truth so much they study to show how the errors are false.
 
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keithr

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And so, since the Father has not appeared to any man, then it had to be the Son who appeared to Abraham.
Why? There were three men. Two were obviously angels in human form. The third could also have been an angel (messenger) in human form, a spokesman for God (Yahweh). It might well have been Jesus, but we can't prove it either way.

Which Paul confirms:

And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Please give references! The above is Galations 3:17. The Cambridge Bible Notes say:

in Christ] These words are probably a gloss; and are properly omitted in R.V. If retained, they should be rendered, “unto (i.e. with a view to) Christ”.​

Hence modern translations omit "in Christ", e.g.:

Darby:
"Now I say this, A covenant confirmed beforehand by God, the law, which took place four hundred and thirty years after, does not annul, so as to make the promise of no effect."​
ESV:
This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.​

So Paul doesn't confirm that it was Jesus!

By this Scripture we already know that the covenant of God with Abraham was made by Christ, and now you give Scriptural confirmation that it was Christ who appeared to Abraham to confirm it to him.
You can't justify twisting, or adding to, the Scriptures to mean that. It does not clearly say that, i.e. it clearly does not say that!
 

robert derrick

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Why? There were three men. Two were obviously angels in human form. The third could also have been an angel (messenger) in human form, a spokesman for God (Yahweh). It might well have been Jesus, but we can't prove it either way.


Please give references! The above is Galations 3:17. The Cambridge Bible Notes say:

in Christ] These words are probably a gloss; and are properly omitted in R.V. If retained, they should be rendered, “unto (i.e. with a view to) Christ”.​

Hence modern translations omit "in Christ", e.g.:

Darby:
"Now I say this, A covenant confirmed beforehand by God, the law, which took place four hundred and thirty years after, does not annul, so as to make the promise of no effect."​
ESV:
This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.​

So Paul doesn't confirm that it was Jesus!


You can't justify twisting, or adding to, the Scriptures to mean that. It does not clearly say that, i.e. it clearly does not say that!
Typical created christ: throw out unwanted Scripture.

These words are probably a gloss.

Whoever wrote the Cambridge rubbish is rubbish.

And so, I'll stick with my Bible, that says Jesus is God, and you stick with your book that says Jesus is a created christ.

You can't justify twisting, or adding to, the Scriptures to mean that.

And as I've said, the created christs are very creative in changing Scripture.

Now, they remove Scripture in order to accuse others of adding to Scripture.

Cute. But no cigar.
 
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