Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Also Very Interesting Is The Name "Jehovah" Is Attributed ToScriptural proof that Jehovah was the name for the LORD God of Israel
If there was an option, I would have rated your post as "informative". I understand your reasoning. However, the spanner in the works may be where the Holy Spirit said in Acts 13:2, "Separate me Paul and Barnabas..." etc., which suggests that Luke viewed the Holy Spirit as a person who could speak and give instructions. Also there are places where the Holy Spirit guided Paul, for example, not allowing him to go into Asia to preach the Gospel.............................................
It is true that the word for God (theos) in the New Testament is masculine, and masculine pronouns (“he,” “him,” “himself”) are always used with it. The word “Father” is also in the masculine gender in the original Greek of the NT, and masculine pronouns are always used with it. The word “Son” is also in the masculine gender in the NT Greek, and masculine pronouns are always used with it. Certainly this is not surprising since God (Jehovah, the Father alone) has always been represented to his people as a living, conscious being, and Christ (Jesus, the Son) is always represented as a living, conscious person. It would be very strange, indeed, if they were not so described!
But “Holy Spirit” in the original Greek is neuter (and feminine in Hebrew which has no neuter gender) and therefore the neuter pronouns meaning “it,” “itself” are used with it in the original NT Greek! Any strictly literal Bible translation would have to use “it” for the holy spirit (since it is really not a person, but God’s active force, a literal translation would be helpful in this case).
As the trinitarian New American Bible (Catholic), 1970 ed. admits:
“The Greek word for ‘spirit’ is neuter, and while we [trinitarians] use personal pronouns in English (‘he,’ ‘his,’ ‘him’), most Greek manuscripts employ ‘it.’” - New American Bible, St. Joseph ed., (footnote for John 14:17).
And the revised NAB of 1991 has actually changed “he/him” back to the literal “it”!
Also see An American Translation by trinitarians Smith & Goodspeed which uses “itself” and “it” for the holy spirit at Romans 8:16, 26, 27.
Here are the rules of Greek grammar that govern this situation. Professor Machen, writing in his New Testament Greek For Beginners, tells us:
“(II.) The noun for which a pronoun stands is called its antecedent. Thus in the sentence, ‘I see the disciple and teach him’, the antecedent of ‘him’ is ‘disciple.’
(III.) A pronoun agrees with its antecedent in GENDER and number.
“Examples: (a) Bleto ton matheten kai didasko auton, [is translated] ‘I see the disciple and teach him.’ Here matheten [‘disciple’] is the antecedent of auton [‘him’], and since matheten is of masculine gender and singular number, auton [αὐτὸν] is also masculine singular.“(b) Meno en to oiko kai ginosko auton [is rendered in English as] ‘I remain in the house and know it.’ Here oiko [‘house’] is the antecedent of auton [‘him’ in the original NT Greek] and since oiko is of masculine gender and singular number auton also is masculine singular [in the NT Greek]. In English the neuter pronoun ‘it’ is used, because the noun ‘house’ like all nouns denoting inanimate objects, is neuter in English. But in Greek the word for house is masculine, and therefore the masculine pronoun is used in referring to it. Hence the translations, ‘he,’ ‘she,’ etc... for the masculine and feminine of the Greek pronoun of the third person are correct only when the antecedents are denoting persons. In other cases, the pronouns will be neuter in English even when they are masculine or feminine in Greek.” - pp. 47-48.
In other words, even if the Greek words for ‘holy spirit’ were in the masculine gender (and, therefore, the Greek masculine pronouns would be used with it), it still would not indicate that the holy spirit must be a person! Just as in many other languages things are often given feminine and masculine genders in Bible Greek.
However, since its literal 'name' (“holy spirit”) is really neuter in the NT Greek and really uses the neuter pronoun (“it”) and takes the neuter definite article (Gr. to), there is the extremely high probability, from grammar alone, that it is not a person.
The fact that it is in the feminine gender in Hebrew, which is often used in place of a neuter gender, adds to this probability.
As a matter of interest, what was the Greek gender for "comforter" when Jesus was telling them about the coming of the Holy Spirit? Also, where the Apostle John speaks of the "anointing" who will teach us all things? Wouldn't these imply that the Holy Spirit is an intelligent Person who can speak, instruct, guide, and teach believers?
Just askin'...
Excellent. It always fascinates me how God has given His written Word in such a way as to allow for no disputes of His true doctrine, and He always does so in some plain unmistakable Scripture, which is usually one of the most known by Bible readers!Also Very Interesting Is The Name "Jehovah" Is Attributed To
BOTH The Father, and To The SON! Amen?:
Gen 19:24 Then The LORD (Jehovah) rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from The LORD (Jehovah) out of heaven;
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.Indeed the Holy Spirit IS NOT an "IT" but a Person who speaks, instructs, guides, and teaches believers!!!
But let us read what Jesus the greatest Teacher of all have to say about the Holy Spirit in John 14:16-17; 15:26; and 16:7-9:
16) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you ANOTHER Comforter, that HE may abide with for ever;
17) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with with you, and shall be in you
26) But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
7) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you,
8) And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement:
9) Of sin, because they believe not on me.
O Father how wise and all knowing thou art. Thou has given many warnings yet we have not paid heed to those warnings and in particular:
Hosea 4:6 which reads:
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."
To God Be The Glory
Amen. "the power of the power" = Nonsense! Believing Scriptural Truth =What the Spirit says, not what the Force...what?
Amen. "the power of the power" = Nonsense! Believing Scriptural Truth =
"The Power Of The Holy Spirit!" = PERFECT Sense!! Amen?
There is no mention of the Son of God in that verse, so how do you come to the conclusion that YHVH is both God's name and His Son's name?Also Very Interesting Is The Name "Jehovah" Is Attributed To
BOTH The Father, and To The SON! Amen?:
Gen 19:24 Then The LORD (Jehovah) rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from The LORD (Jehovah) out of heaven;
Have you not heard of the word hallelujah? See Revelation 19 (the only place it occurs, for it is Hebrew words in the Greek manuscripts that was not translated into English, just transliterated into hallelujah), (WEB):... the Lord Jesus Christ, whose name was Jehovah, before He did come down out of heaven upon the earth to fulfill His prophecies of Himself, and is now called Jesus, whose name is above every name God Almighty was ever called.
Gen 19:24 Then The LORD (Jehovah) rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from The LORD (Jehovah) out of heaven;
Precious friend, keithr, thanks for the Excellent question for Bible study:There is no mention of the Son of God in that verse, so how do you come to the conclusion that YHVH is both God's name and His Son's name?
There is no mention of the Son of God in that verse, so how do you come to the conclusion that YHVH is both God's name and His Son's name?
Very gracious of you to supply yet another proof of the truth.Precious friend, keithr, thanks for the Excellent question for Bible study:
Confirmation:
1) JESUS Said: "No man hath seen God at any time; The Only Begotten SON,
Which is in The Bosom of The Father, He Hath Declared Him." (John 1:18)
2) So, Who Is "The God (YHWH) That Appeared to Abraham"?:
Gen 18:1 "And The LORD Appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre:
and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;" (Cp Acts 7:2)
3) So, IF "The Holy Spirit" has Never Appeared to anyone (Scripture?),
and "The Father Has Never Appeared to any man, at any time":
Joh 6:46 "Not that any man hath seen The Father, save
He Which Is Of God, He hath seen The Father." (cp 1 John 4:12)
Conclusion: The ONLY Other Person Of The Triune GodHead Would:
Be (YHWH) The SON, The LORD JESUS CHRIST, Who "appeared to Abraham,"
Correct?
More Confirmation?:
"Complete" Case For JESUS Is Almighty God!!
Why? There were three men. Two were obviously angels in human form. The third could also have been an angel (messenger) in human form, a spokesman for God (Yahweh). It might well have been Jesus, but we can't prove it either way.And so, since the Father has not appeared to any man, then it had to be the Son who appeared to Abraham.
Please give references! The above is Galations 3:17. The Cambridge Bible Notes say:Which Paul confirms:
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
You can't justify twisting, or adding to, the Scriptures to mean that. It does not clearly say that, i.e. it clearly does not say that!By this Scripture we already know that the covenant of God with Abraham was made by Christ, and now you give Scriptural confirmation that it was Christ who appeared to Abraham to confirm it to him.
Typical created christ: throw out unwanted Scripture.Why? There were three men. Two were obviously angels in human form. The third could also have been an angel (messenger) in human form, a spokesman for God (Yahweh). It might well have been Jesus, but we can't prove it either way.
Please give references! The above is Galations 3:17. The Cambridge Bible Notes say:
in Christ] These words are probably a gloss; and are properly omitted in R.V. If retained, they should be rendered, “unto (i.e. with a view to) Christ”.
Hence modern translations omit "in Christ", e.g.:
Darby:
"Now I say this, A covenant confirmed beforehand by God, the law, which took place four hundred and thirty years after, does not annul, so as to make the promise of no effect."ESV:
This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.
So Paul doesn't confirm that it was Jesus!
You can't justify twisting, or adding to, the Scriptures to mean that. It does not clearly say that, i.e. it clearly does not say that!