The Catholic Church gets put down a lot, but it was all that could help

[ScaliaFan]

Your scenario is nasty and out of touch with reality.

Thanks for teaching me some things i didn't know or had forgotten RE the Church

nice to see someone besides me defending Her :)

 

[mjrhealth]

Lastly, the first 40 popes (except 1) were martyred. (which means nothing to a hostile ant-Catholic)
Were they evil and corrupt too?

Yes some even by other popes it seems, martyred for who, teh cathoilc church. Intereseting to read of teh english and french poes who wanted to kill one another so they could have power. which is what it is all about, power that teh people give to them, if there where no people they would have no power, just like any other beurocracy. And you still insist its the Lords church??

i wasn't close to God until I knew JEsus ("No one can come to the FAther except through Me") and I never knew Jesus until i knew HIS Church (and was IN it)

one does not go "in" the lords "ecclesia", one becomes His " eclessia" when one gives His life to Jesus. we are His church, we are His bride, it is not a denomination and Only Christ is the head and only he has authority. Which you will discover soon enough.

 

[ScaliaFan]

Yes some even by other popes it seems, martyred for who, teh cathoilc church. Intereseting to read of teh english and french poes who wanted to kill one another so they could have power. which is what it is all about, power that teh people give to them, if there where no people they would have no power, just like any other beurocracy. And you still insist its the Lords church??

one does not go "in" the lords "ecclesia", one becomes His " eclessia" when one gives His life to Jesus. we are His church, we are His bride, it is not a denomination and Only Christ is the head and only he has authority. Which you will discover soon enough.

I'm tired of reading stuff I know isn't true

so I'll just say

You're wrong

and move on.... :)

(after not reading much of this... heard it all b4.. been Catholic and fighting false teachings for many years now)

 

[tom55]

What do you think that is a catholic exclusive?? Enforce what?? God is not a slave driver as so many make Him out to be, that was pharohs job.

noun

• the sharing or exchanging of intimate thoughts and feelings, especially on a mental or spiritual level.

Well see I talk to Jesus most of the day everyday, He is not relegated to one day a week or for 1 hr of that day, i dont need to be reminded of Him, for He is my best friend not some distant cousin.

Your response did not answer my question AND makes absolutely no sense. (please don't try to clarify)

 

[mjrhealth]

Your response did not answer my question AND makes absolutely no sense. (please don't try to clarify)

Actually I did, and how can it not make sense, what do you think Jesus did on that cross. It certainly wasnt to build churches all over the world.

 

[epostle1]

Yes some even by other popes it seems, martyred for who, teh cathoilc church. Intereseting to read of teh english and french poes who wanted to kill one another so they could have power. which is what it is all about, power that teh people give to them, if there where no people they would have no power, just like any other beurocracy. And you still insist its the Lords church??
Too bad you have no documentation or references about popes killing each other. Looks to me like another fundamentalist lie.

one does not go "in" the lords "ecclesia", one becomes His " eclessia" when one gives His life to Jesus. we are His church, we are His bride, it is not a denomination and Only Christ is the head and only he has authority. Which you will discover soon enough.
Hebrews 13:17 says, "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you."
What is the expiration date of this verse?

Jesus said that the unity of Christians would be objective evidence to the world that He had been sent by God (John 17:20-23). How can the world see an invisible "unity" that exists only in the hearts of believers?

which is what it is all about, power that teh people give to them, if there where no people they would have no power, just like any other beurocracy. And you still insist its the Lords church??

What "power" would that be, how was it exercised, when and by whom? Looks to me like another reformist myth.

 

[mjrhealth]

Jesus said that the unity of Christians would be objective evidence to the world that He had been sent by God (John 17:20-23). How can the world see an invisible "unity" that exists only in the hearts of believers?

Well find mew a church without contorversy and i will show you teh Lords Church.If murder and child abuse is what God desires to show the world, you are looking at the wrong God. rJust look at teh weath of the church

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

or the rich man

Luk 12:16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
Luk 12:17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
Luk 12:18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
Luk 12:19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
Luk 12:20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
Luk 12:21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

But I guess like so many just dont want to see.

 

[ScaliaFan]

Well find mew a church without contorversy and i will show you teh Lords Church.If murder and child abuse is what God desires to show the world, you are looking at the wrong God. rJust look at teh weath of the church

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

or the rich man

Luk 12:16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
Luk 12:17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
Luk 12:18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
Luk 12:19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
Luk 12:20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
Luk 12:21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

But I guess like so many just dont want to see.

I find you dishonest.. Most anticatholics are

 

[mjrhealth]

I find you dishonest.. Most anticatholics are

I thought you where not interested in the truth, Back again I see. You cant run away from teh truth as Jesus is teh truth and only He can set you free. Dishonest??

Mat 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
Mat 15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
Mat 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Again it is your choosing, teh truth is there when you desire it more than glorifying your religion.

 

[epostle1]

Jesus said that the unity of Christians would be objective evidence to the world that He had been sent by God (John 17:20-23). How can the world see an invisible "unity" that exists only in the hearts of believers?

Well find mew a church without contorversy and i will show you teh Lords Church.

How does this answer the question? I also asked for documentation on popes killing popes, you don't have any. But I have lots of scholarly documentation of Protestants killing Protestants. Hopefully you won't repeat this total falsehood lest you embarrass yourself.

If murder and child abuse is what God desires to show the world, you are looking at the wrong God. rJust look at teh weath of the church.

You like to cram your lies in sequence.. Let's take one accusation at a time. Name the Pope who ordered murder by church decree. You have no answer like you had no evidence for popes killing popes.You just threw that in to add color to your rant.

There is no Vatican wealth, it's another anti-Catholic lie. The Church runs a deficit in most years. The Central Intelligence Agency publishes a report on the economies of every nation in the world. Here is their economic analysis for the Vatican:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/vt.html
Vatican wealth is a myth.

I believe that those who decry the "wealth" of the Vatican do so not out of altruistic reasons but due to a hope that the Church have no clout or influence in the world's affairs. This has nothing to do with "riches" but more to do with "power". Most people do not wish that the Church have a voice in matters political, humanitarian, ethical, etc., they would like to see her shut-up and ineffectual. God wishes otherwise and so do the true aspirations of the inner workings of humanity. "the gates of hell shall not prevail against thee." The ignorance of these simplistic self-righteous statements need not bother us - God is in control here - no worry. Fools be gone! If the Church had all the riches of the world (and she does on a much deeper level) no one should worry - we all should be happy if such a miraculous thing happened - for we'd be assured that all those riches would be distributed rightfully and justly, unlike the world. We'd be assured that the great works of art would be open for all and available to all.

The Church has effectively dealt with sex abuse,We know from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice investigation into this matter that almost all of the cases of the sexual abuse of minors that took place in Catholic institutions occurred between 1965 and 1985. By contrast, in the last five years, the average number of credible accusations made against 40,000 priests is exactly 7.6. Quite frankly, there is no entity in the United States today, private or public, (including your church, mjrhealth) that can match this record..

• The Catholic Church's record of aggressive and proactive protective measures is unparalleled in any organization today. Since the beginning of the abuse crisis, the Catholic Church: has instituted a "zero tolerance" policy in which any credibly accused priest is immediately removed from ministry. Law enforcement is also notified;
• has trained over 5 million children in giving them skills to protect them from abuse;
• has trained over 2 million adults, including 99 percent of all priests, in recognizing signs of abuse;
• has conducted over 2 million background checks, including those in the intensified screening process for aspiring seminarians and priests;
• has installed "Victim Assistance Coordinators" in every diocese, "assuring victims that they will be heard";
• has conducted annual independent audits of all dioceses to monitor compliance with the groundbreaking 2002 Charter for Protection of Children and Young People;
• has instituted in all dioceses abuse review boards – often composed of child welfare experts, child psychologists, and abuse experts – to examine any claims of abuse against priests.

No other organization (including yours) even comes close to implementing the measures the Catholic Church has taken to protect children in its care. In this regard, the Catholic Church in the 21st century is the model for other institutions to follow in the safeguarding of youth.
Catholic sex abuse facts :: Fast Facts from TheMediaReport.com <not a Catholic site

Playing the sex scandal card to discredit the Church won't work. And the name of your church is???

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

You must be a Dave Hunt fan, world's top abuser of Rev. His lies are exposed here.

The Catholic Church feeds, clothes, houses, educates and provides medical care
to more people than any charity in the world.

​

Your quote from Luke is irrelevant.

But I guess like so many just dont want to see.

Yea, so run along to the next anti-Catholic lie and bear false witness some more, then tell me how clear your vision is.

 

[mjrhealth]

How does this answer the question? I also asked for documentation on popes killing popes, you don't have any. But I have lots of scholarly documentation of Protestants killing Protestants. Hopefully you won't repeat this total falsehood lest you embarrass yourself.

Embarras myself, couldnt if i tried. There are countless history books writen on israel and about the crusades and the churches invlovement. Its funny hoiw Jesus says that teh devil can appear as an angle of light, but only to those who wlak in darkenss, You glorify your church I glorify Chirst, you speak of your church I can only speak of Christ, all salvation is through Him alone no matter how many churches cry Out "we are the true church of Christ", even teh Jws do that, i have had that discussion with them many times. You can bury our head in the sand all you like it wil not change the outckome. What church do I belong to. theer is only one "ecclesia" and it is not a demination neither is it a building nor a temple it is this,

Joh_4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

you wont find those who foolow Chrit in any chuirch because.

Joh_10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh_10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

It was always meant to be. it was what Christ is all about, calling all men to Himself

Mat_19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

But men would rather religion and all its traditions than God and Christ Himself.

I dont do this for you, Jesus could never convince the pharrsees, teh religous of who He was, and even today the ywont liste, He is coming for His bride not your church, just remeber that. There is no place in heaven for mormans, or JWs or SDa or catholicls or any other religious people, Just Gods children.

 

[epostle1]

Embarras myself, couldnt if i tried.

You already have, instead of leaving it alone you jump to different Catholic bashing topics after your silly Catholic bashing gets exposed. Don't bother posting a long list of items that takes several pages to answer, that's a rant, not a discussion.
here are countless history books writen on israel and about the crusades and the churches invlovement.

Modern scholarship has dismissed the commonly held beliefs about the Crusades as more Protestant propaganda.


http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/tmadden_crusademyths_feb05.asp
http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/controversy/the-crusades/four-myths-about-the-crusades.html
Muslims took over the Holy Land by force, there were no armies in Europe, the "churches involvement" was to gather soldiers to free the Holy Land. The Crusades were DEFENSIVE wars. Don't you do any critical research?

Its funny hoiw Jesus says that teh devil can appear as an angle of light, but only to those who wlak in darkenss, You glorify your church I glorify Chirst, you speak of your church I can only speak of Christ, all salvation is through Him alone no matter how many churches cry Out "we are the true church of Christ", even teh Jws do that, i have had that discussion with them many times. You can bury our head in the sand all you like it wil not change the outckome. What church do I belong to. theer is only one "ecclesia" and it is not a demination neither is it a building nor a temple it is this,

Then why did Jesus bother to found a Church if every "believer" has a direct line to God on all matters??? You are the one that brought up sex scandals and now you hide behind a non-church for fear of being exposed as a hypocrit. Guess what: non-denominationalism is a denomination, each one having it's own distinct theology. Paul taught against division. A bless-me-club is not a church.

Joh_4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

you wont find those who foolow Chrit in any chuirch because.

Joh_10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh_10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

It was always meant to be. it was what Christ is all about, calling all men to Himself

Mat_19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

But men would rather religion and all its traditions than God and Christ Himself.

I dont do this for you, Jesus could never convince the pharrsees, teh religous of who He was, and even today the ywont liste, He is coming for His bride not your church, just remeber that. There is no place in heaven for mormans, or JWs or SDa or catholicls or any other religious people, Just Gods children.

Show me one verse that pits the Bible against the Church the way you do. The Bible never does that, but you do. The Bible says the Church is infallible and indefectable and what you are saying contradicts the Bible. That's why Protestantism is forced to re-write history.


Nobody denies there being sinful members in the Church, that does not subtract from the holiness of Christ, the source of holiness of the Church. What I deny is the lies, exaggerations, misrepresentations, and false histories that is the religion of certain "Bible-Christian" groups. You have several in each of your posts. There are billions on the 'net. Find one Catholic source that does that to your beliefs.

Please restrict one anti-Catholic lie per post.

 

[mjrhealth]

Nobody denies there being sinful members in the Church, that does not subtract from the holiness of Christ, the source of holiness of the Church. What I deny is the lies, exaggerations, misrepresentations, and false histories that is the religion of certain "Bible-Christian" groups. You have several in each of your posts. There are billions on the 'net. Find one Catholic source that does that to your beliefs.

Please restrict one anti-Catholic lie per post.

Your church is not and cannot be Holy, as Christ is coming for His bride, spotless without blemish, the garments of you church are stained in blood, lies and deceipt, You are like the scientist who sees all the evidence presented before him but will deny it all, even to His death. You dont search for the truth you look for the lies that defend your position, Or as Jesus put it

Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Jesus and teh truth need no defending but the lies of men always will.

 

[epostle1]

Your church is not and cannot be Holy,

By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23).

But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

as Christ is coming for His bride, spotless without blemish,

The Second Coming of Christ is a doctrine you borrowed from us and has nothing to do with the discussion.

the garments of you church are stained in blood, lies and deceipt,.

That has nothing to do with the infallible and indefectable Church that Jesus founded. You are in a sense saying the Apostles should have abandoned Peter because of Judas. By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23).

But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

You don't seem to understand what "prevail" means. Jesus never said the Church would never be attacked, from within and from without. He said the gates of hell would not prevail. So you can list all the sins of the Church from your "Bible-Christian" hate sites, it doesn't refute, override or cancel out Jesus' promise He would be with us always. Sinful men have been in the Church, but they have not prevailed. You are claiming the gates of hell have prevailed, He left us, and thus call Christ a liar. This is where you resort to false histories, especially bible origin and early church fantasies to justify your man made system.

Catholics today are not accountable for bad things that happened 1000 years ago that you guys keep bellyaching about, just as Protestants today are not accountable for the nasty skeletons in their closets. (that you never hear about)
THE PROTESTANT INQUISITION

you are like the scientist who sees all the evidence presented before him but will deny it all, even to His death. You dont search for the truth you look for the lies that defend your position, Or as Jesus put it

It's not me that makes empty accusations with no documentation. It's not me that keeps changing the topic when you get educated on your anti-Catholic myths. It's not me that can't accept historical facts. It's not me that pits the Bible against the Church, something the Bible never does.

Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Jesus and teh truth need no defending but the lies of men always will.


There you go again with a vague pharisaical accusation, backed up by nothing. Billions of non-denoms and other sites featuring "Catholic experts" print lie after lie. But you can't find one Catholic source that prints lies about non-denoms, or Protestantism of any stripe. Your statement is sheer hypocrisy.
If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

 

[ScaliaFan]

Well find mew a church without contorversy and i will show you teh Lords Church.If murder and child abuse is what God desires to show the world, you are looking at the wrong God. rJust look at teh weath of the church

are you going to tell us w/ a straight face that there is a church on Earth (or ecclesial community, as there is only ONE Church in the eyes of God)... that is without sinners????

boy, you are delusional

 

[ScaliaFan]

Frankly, after all i have seen and experienced thorughout the years... esp vis a vis my contacts w/ anticatholics and even those who are not anticatholic but not Catholic

i have often had the thought that protestants are not Christians at all... but i suppose that is not exactly true... sure seems that way, though

 

[mjrhealth]

are you going to tell us w/ a straight face that there is a church on Earth (or ecclesial community, as there is only ONE Church in the eyes of God)... that is without sinners????

boy, you are delusional

yiou speak as a wordly man, our Lords church is not of thsi world.

This bit

4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now

Just wish you could see the foolishness of it all. Dont worry only one more post than I will leve you to your religion.

But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

Se eagain stealing Gods authoruty, you church is not Holy by any emans, why dont you query God on that one or would it be.



Mar 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Just anothe rof teh myriad of things that your church does that it shoudlnt be doing.

Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men

As for popes

The period from 1378 to 1417, when there were rival claimants to the title of pope, is referred to as the "Western Schism" or "the great controversy of the antipopes" by some Roman Catholic scholars and "the second great schism" by many secular and Protestant historians. Parties within the Roman Church were divided in their allegiance among the various claimants to the office of pope. The Council of Constance finally resolved the controversy in 1417 when the election of Pope Martin V was accepted by all.

But im sure it doesnt matter and you dont care.

But its all good. LEave you to your demise.I can imaginge the number of people who tried to show you, but whom you rejected for your churches teaching. All good, you are not alone, millions of lost christians all over teh world who dont know there saviour, prefer there religion and denominations to teh one who loves the, That he cannot help.

Going to be too late soon enough.

 

[ScaliaFan]

yiou speak as a wordly man, our Lords church is not of thsi world.

This bit

4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now

yes, you are persecuting Christians (accusing them of nefarious beliefs, etc...).

Why is that?

 

[epostle1]

yiou speak as a wordly man, our Lords church is not of thsi world.

This bit

4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now

Just wish you could see the foolishness of it all. Dont worry only one more post than I will leve you to your religion.

Se eagain stealing Gods authoruty, you church is not Holy by any emans, why dont you query God on that one or would it be.

Mar 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Just anothe rof teh myriad of things that your church does that it shoudlnt be doing.

Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men

This has nothing to do with the infallible and indefectable Church Jesus established. The Jerusalem Council certainly regarded its teachings as infallible, and guided by the Holy Spirit Himself. You’re trying to set the Bible against the Church, which is typical Protestant methodology, and ultra-unbiblical. The Bible never does that.

I’ve already given the example of the Jerusalem Council plainly shows the infallibility of the Church. The Bible repeatedly teaches that the Church is indefectible; therefore, the hypothetical of rejecting the (one true, historic) Church, as supposedly going against the Bible, is impossible according to the Bible. It is not a situation that would ever come up, because of God’s promised protection.

What the Bible says is to reject those who cause divisions, which is the very essence of the onset of Protestantism: schism, sectarianism, and division. It is Protestantism that departed from the historic Church, which is indefectible and infallible (see also 1 Tim 3:15).

All authority ultimately comes from God (Paul was called before he was born: Gal 1:15). It is the pitting of the ultimate source against the secondary, human source (the Church) which is the problem in your approach and that of Protestantism in general. You guys don’t like human, institutional authority and don’t have enough faith to believe that God can and does preserve it, so you try to undermine it by fallacious arguments, as presently.

No doubt you aren’t even aware that you are doing it. To do this is automatic in Protestantism; it’s like breathing. It’s like the fish that doesn’t know it’s in water. It all comes from the rejection of the infallibility of the Church (which is one thing that sola Scriptura always entails).

We believe in faith that the Church is infallible and indefectible, based on many biblical indications. It is theoretically possible (speaking in terms of philosophy or epistemology) that the Church could stray and have to be rejected, but the Bible rules that out. We believe in faith that it has not and will not.

Protestants don’t have enough faith to believe that God could preserve an infallible Church, even though they can muster up even more faith than that, which is required to believe in an infallible Bible written by a bunch of sinners and hypocrites.


We simply have more faith than you guys do. It’s a supernatural gift. We believe that the authoritative Church is also a key part of God’s plan to save the souls of men. We follow the model of the Jerusalem Council, whereas you guys reject that or ignore it, because it doesn’t fit in with the man-made tradition of Protestantism and a supposedly non-infallible Church.

Galatians 1:8-9 is very real; thus, we reject Protestantism where it departs from God’s word. The Bible teaches that the true Church is infallible and indefectible. That is a promise of God. One either accepts it in faith or not. That is the task: does one accept all of what the Bible teaches, or just selectively, with man-made traditions added to it?

There is such a thing as a false church and false gospel, that must be rejected,
and there is also the one true Church that cannot fail doctrinally, based on God’s protection.
You assert the first thing but reject the second, which is your difficulty (accepting one part of the Bible but not another). We accept both things and have no difficulty.

As for popes

The period from 1378 to 1417, when there were rival claimants to the title of pope, is referred to as the "Western Schism" or "the great controversy of the antipopes" by some Roman Catholic scholars and "the second great schism" by many secular and Protestant historians. Parties within the Roman Church were divided in their allegiance among the various claimants to the office of pope. The Council of Constance finally resolved the controversy in 1417 when the election of Pope Martin V was accepted by all.

But im sure it doesnt matter and you dont care.

How does that discredit the papacy? You can't see the difference between resolving a controversy and starting a new church (which divides further with time), and starting a new church is the standard means Protestantism uses for resolving controversy. The Western Schism does not disprove the BIBLICAL authority of the Church that you reject. The gates of hell has and will attack from within and from without, in many ways, but you still haven't shown me when the gates of hell have prevailed against the Church. Pointing your finger at controversies and sinners in the Church is just an excuse to support your thin rebellion. The gates of hell have attacked, but not prevailed, and you need to stop calling Jesus a liar.

But its all good. LEave you to your demise.I can imaginge the number of people who tried to show you, but whom you rejected for your churches teaching. All good, you are not alone, millions of lost christians all over teh world who dont know there saviour, prefer there religion and denominations to teh one who loves the, That he cannot help.

You automatically assume that because I am Catholic I have no personal relationship with Jesus?

Why is that?

For some, not all, bearing false witness is their religion. Ignorance and prejudice are also major factors. Being born into Protestantism is another. The psychotic ramblings of Jack Chick, Dave Hunt and legions of other anti-Catholic bigots flood the media, poisoning many with what I call spiritual pornography. The reformers went on a major misinformation campaign and their twisting of Catholic teachings remains to this day.

 

[ScaliaFan]

You automatically assume that because I am Catholic I have no personal relationship with Jesus?

Why is that?

For some, not all, bearing false witness is their religion. Ignorance and prejudice are also major factors. Being born into Protestantism is another. The psychotic ramblings of Jack Chick, Dave Hunt and legions of other anti-Catholic bigots flood the media, poisoning many with what I call spiritual pornography. The reformers went on a major misinformation campaign and their twisting of Catholic teachings remains to this day.



Amen

I have copy/pasted the rest of this post and will read later, but you know.. I could be wrong (wouldn't be the 1st time) but I say the protestants who hate catholicism aren't listening to a thing Catholics say... even if it makes sense..

I rarely get the feeling an anticatholic hears one word i say.. As you say "bearing false witness is their religion"

and yet they often deride "religion"--claim they dont bother w/ "religion"... the word merely means a system of beliefs about God

... how ironic... but they never see such ironies, i guess