The Catholic Church gets put down a lot, but it was all that could help

[mjrhealth]

You cannot let this die the death it deserves.

So in closing I have only 2 statements to make.

1. It was not us who set out to impose ourselves upon teh catholic church, it was teh catholic church who came here to impose herself upon us as she has done for centuries, than bursts into tears and cries like a spoiled child when she is rejected being teh great ugly whore thats she is.
2. It is not us who set out to tell the world how we hate catholics, it is you the catholics that came here to tell "us", how much we hate you. I have yet to see one single person on this forum who has declared such a thing.

We shall leave you to your folly.

 

[ScaliaFan]

I have never been to Hawaii

But i know all about what it's like to be there

never been to the moon, but know what it's like to live there...

:)

 

[lforrest]

Did you know that astronauts trained to walk on the moon at the Mauna Loa volcano?

 

[ScaliaFan]

Did you know that astronauts trained to walk on the moon at the Mauna Loa volcano?

but it is more important to know that Catholics (while in the Church) are in the actual, physical Presence of Christ

and others should be also

 

[ScaliaFan]

​

​

We shall leave you to your folly.​

in my yrs here on Planet Earth, i have found that one of the most egregious of all follies is PRESUMPTION​

​

you anticatholics are the personification of the word. You speak of things you know not of... in SPADES​

​

but that is your choice​

​

you may want to rem ember, however, that Jesus said FEW make it to Heaven (MT 7, Lk 13, the whole book of Revelation). You cannot be saved w/o the Church Christ established (so it is a choice between what God has establsihed and what man has established... your choice)​

​

​

​

:blink: ​

 

[brakelite]

yiou speak as a wordly man, our Lords church is not of thsi world.

This bit

4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now

Just wish you could see the foolishness of it all. Dont worry only one more post than I will leve you to your religion.

Se eagain stealing Gods authoruty, you church is not Holy by any emans, why dont you query God on that one or would it be.


Mar 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Just anothe rof teh myriad of things that your church does that it shoudlnt be doing.

Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men

This has nothing to do with the infallible and indefectable Church Jesus established. The Jerusalem Council certainly regarded its teachings as infallible, and guided by the Holy Spirit Himself. You’re trying to set the Bible against the Church, which is typical Protestant methodology, and ultra-unbiblical. The Bible never does that.

I’ve already given the example of the Jerusalem Council plainly shows the infallibility of the Church. The Bible repeatedly teaches that the Church is indefectible; therefore, the hypothetical of rejecting the (one true, historic) Church, as supposedly going against the Bible, is impossible according to the Bible. It is not a situation that would ever come up, because of God’s promised protection.

What the Bible says is to reject those who cause divisions, which is the very essence of the onset of Protestantism: schism, sectarianism, and division. It is Protestantism that departed from the historic Church, which is indefectible and infallible (see also 1 Tim 3:15).

All authority ultimately comes from God (Paul was called before he was born: Gal 1:15). It is the pitting of the ultimate source against the secondary, human source (the Church) which is the problem in your approach and that of Protestantism in general. You guys don’t like human, institutional authority and don’t have enough faith to believe that God can and does preserve it, so you try to undermine it by fallacious arguments, as presently.

No doubt you aren’t even aware that you are doing it. To do this is automatic in Protestantism; it’s like breathing. It’s like the fish that doesn’t know it’s in water. It all comes from the rejection of the infallibility of the Church (which is one thing that sola Scriptura always entails).

We believe in faith that the Church is infallible and indefectible, based on many biblical indications. It is theoretically possible (speaking in terms of philosophy or epistemology) that the Church could stray and have to be rejected, but the Bible rules that out. We believe in faith that it has not and will not.

Protestants don’t have enough faith to believe that God could preserve an infallible Church, even though they can muster up even more faith than that, which is required to believe in an infallible Bible written by a bunch of sinners and hypocrites.


We simply have more faith than you guys do. It’s a supernatural gift. We believe that the authoritative Church is also a key part of God’s plan to save the souls of men. We follow the model of the Jerusalem Council, whereas you guys reject that or ignore it, because it doesn’t fit in with the man-made tradition of Protestantism and a supposedly non-infallible Church.

Galatians 1:8-9 is very real; thus, we reject Protestantism where it departs from God’s word. The Bible teaches that the true Church is infallible and indefectible. That is a promise of God. One either accepts it in faith or not. That is the task: does one accept all of what the Bible teaches, or just selectively, with man-made traditions added to it?

There is such a thing as a false church and false gospel, that must be rejected,
and there is also the one true Church that cannot fail doctrinally, based on God’s protection.
You assert the first thing but reject the second, which is your difficulty (accepting one part of the Bible but not another). We accept both things and have no difficulty.

As for popes

The period from 1378 to 1417, when there were rival claimants to the title of pope, is referred to as the "Western Schism" or "the great controversy of the antipopes" by some Roman Catholic scholars and "the second great schism" by many secular and Protestant historians. Parties within the Roman Church were divided in their allegiance among the various claimants to the office of pope. The Council of Constance finally resolved the controversy in 1417 when the election of Pope Martin V was accepted by all.

But im sure it doesnt matter and you dont care.

How does that discredit the papacy? You can't see the difference between resolving a controversy and starting a new church (which divides further with time), and starting a new church is the standard means Protestantism uses for resolving controversy. The Western Schism does not disprove the BIBLICAL authority of the Church that you reject. The gates of hell has and will attack from within and from without, in many ways, but you still haven't shown me when the gates of hell have prevailed against the Church. Pointing your finger at controversies and sinners in the Church is just an excuse to support your thin rebellion. The gates of hell have attacked, but not prevailed, and you need to stop calling Jesus a liar.

But its all good. LEave you to your demise.I can imaginge the number of people who tried to show you, but whom you rejected for your churches teaching. All good, you are not alone, millions of lost christians all over teh world who dont know there saviour, prefer there religion and denominations to teh one who loves the, That he cannot help.

You automatically assume that because I am Catholic I have no personal relationship with Jesus?

Why is that?

For some, not all, bearing false witness is their religion. Ignorance and prejudice are also major factors. Being born into Protestantism is another. The psychotic ramblings of Jack Chick, Dave Hunt and legions of other anti-Catholic bigots flood the media, poisoning many with what I call spiritual pornography. The reformers went on a major misinformation campaign and their twisting of Catholic teachings remains to this day.



You have most eloquently defended the concept of infallibility, claiming that the Bible even reveals that God's true church cannot fall away from Truth. Not so. When Paul warned the Thessalonians that after him would come a falling away, the word he used, Gr. apostasy, literally means a falling away from a marital relationship. Thus a falling away from a state of truth, into a state of rebellion...a state of divorce...and an unfaithful bride becomes a prostitute...a whore...to which Revelation speaks volumes...clothed in purple and scarlet but devoid of blue (meaning a claim to Christlikeness but without the law of Christ...look up the significance of the color blue on the OT High Priest vestments.) View attachment 407

 

[lforrest]

You have most eloquently defended the concept of infallibility, claiming that the Bible even reveals that God's true church cannot fall away from Truth. Not so. When Paul warned the Thessalonians that after him would come a falling away, the word he used, Gr. apostasy, literally means a falling away from a marital relationship. Thus a falling away from a state of truth, into a state of rebellion...a state of divorce...and an unfaithful bride becomes a prostitute...a whore...to which Revelation speaks volumes...clothed in purple and scarlet but devoid of blue (meaning a claim to Christlikeness but without the law of Christ...look up the significance of the color blue on the OT High Priest vestments.)

11401261_355358617992973_6943409086395518381_n.jpg

The parable in Matthew 24:45-51 seems to support this as well.

The wicked servant could be any number of persons in authority over the Church, abusing their power for self interest. Is it any wonder that the reformation happened with Rome's abuse of power?

 

[ScaliaFan]

The parable in Matthew 24:45-51 seems to support this as well.

The wicked servant could be any number of persons in authority over the Church, abusing their power for self interest. Is it any wonder that the reformation happened with Rome's abuse of power?

and then Luther and other rebels in turn abused theirs

human nature

 

[ScaliaFan]

I dont see how anyone stays a Christian while being disconnected from Christ's Church... My experience tells me that few people do

sooner or later, the world (flesh/devil) gets the best of all those who try to follow Jesus..

yeh, sure, this even happens to Catholics.. who would know better than I? sigh

 

[brakelite]

I dont see how anyone stays a Christian while being disconnected from Christ's Church... My experience tells me that few people do

sooner or later, the world (flesh/devil) gets the best of all those who try to follow Jesus..

yeh, sure, this even happens to Catholics.. who would know better than I? sigh

One doesn't become connected to Jesus by being connected to a church. You have things back to front. One must become connected to Jesus first. Surrender to Him. Submit wholly to His authority, to His righteousness, to His commandments...allow Him, by His Spirit, to create in you a new man, be born again from the inside, becoming a new creation in Him. This miracle...this sometimes radical change in character and life, has absolutely nothing to do with any church, apart from perhaps it being the vessel used for a sermon or some individual leading you to Christ...but the church as an institution itself wields no power/authority that has any bearing on your ultimate salvation. That my friend is the sole prerogative of God alone, and He has given that authority to only One other, His only begotten Son, Yeshua/Jesus. Not a priest, bishop, pope, pastor, vicar, archdeacon, reverend or any other man, regardless of standing/education/theological degrees/titles, has any say in your salvation, nor does any institution that man may be connected to.
Come to Christ first. When you are fully satisfied and at peace with Him, then let Him lead you to the company of believers that He chooses for you. Do not allow man or any institution to tell you 'come here' or 'join us' or 'we are the true way'. Let the Lord guide you through the Spirit and His word. Forget tradition...forget so called 'founding fathers'...forget everything you have been taught by man and allow God to be your Teacher.
John 4:23,24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth
John 16:7 ¶ Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

 

[ScaliaFan]

One doesn't become connected to Jesus by being connected to a church.

sorry if it bugs u but this is all i have read so far, all i plan to read

sorry but i have had so many interactions w/ anticatholics throughout the past few yrs, who are the most closed minded people i have ever met (Understatement) that i feel i just cannot deal w/ them anymore.. It makes no sense talking to a wall

one doesn't become connected to Jesus by being connected to HIs Church???

ha ha....

right

well, u can believe what you want... all the way to Hell... Even God will not stop you from taking that route... so how am I going to?

 

[mjrhealth]

sorry if it bugs u but this is all i have read so far, all i plan to read

sorry but i have had so many interactions w/ anticatholics throughout the past few yrs, who are the most closed minded people i have ever met (Understatement) that i feel i just cannot deal w/ them anymore.. It makes no sense talking to a wall

one doesn't become connected to Jesus by being connected to HIs Church???

ha ha....

right

well, u can believe what you want... all the way to Hell... Even God will not stop you from taking that route... so how am I going to?

I guess scf you missed ths point. Is not your church the catholic church. As bl said we become His chur ch when we abide in Him. Being in church has little to do with being in His church. We are His church, you cannot attend something you are. You are so angfy at those who show you the truth that pride wont let you accept it. Pity but you are not alone.

 

[brakelite]

sorry if it bugs u but this is all i have read so far, all i plan to read

sorry but i have had so many interactions w/ anticatholics throughout the past few yrs, who are the most closed minded people i have ever met (Understatement) that i feel i just cannot deal w/ them anymore.. It makes no sense talking to a wall

one doesn't become connected to Jesus by being connected to HIs Church???

ha ha....

right

well, u can believe what you want... all the way to Hell... Even God will not stop you from taking that route... so how am I going to?Peop

No-one will be condemned because they did not know the truth...people will be condemned because having the opportunity to learn the truth, they refused to investigate what is truth. Following my opening sentence which was the only one you read, is a short explanation of the gospel. Come to Me Jesus said. He did not say come to my church.

 

[Phoneman777]

and then Luther and other rebels in turn abused theirs

human nature

The difference is that Protestants had the Bible to decide for themselves what they would believe without threat of TORTURE AND DEATH for refusing to accept all that their leaders put before them, as was the case in Catholicism. While torture chambers are absent from Protestant churches, they are were often found within the walls of Catholic churches.

 

[ScaliaFan]

I guess scf you missed ths point. Is not your church the catholic church. As bl said we become His chur ch when we abide in Him. Being in church has little to do with being in His church. We are His church, you cannot attend something you are. You are so angfy at those who show you the truth that pride wont let you accept it. Pity but you are not alone.

without Jesus's Church, YOU do not know the truth. End of Sentence

Christianity (true Christianity) is supernatural...

man-made "churches" (those not the RCC) are NOT supernatural, to speak of

Christ's Church obviously IS

It's like Louis Pasteur (Catholic) said to a Protestant once (not sure if this is verbatim, but close enough

"You Protestants worship Jesus the way you want. We Catholics worship Him as HE wants"

 

[ScaliaFan]

The difference is that Protestants had the Bible to decide for themselves what they would believe without threat of TORTURE AND DEATH for refusing to accept all that their leaders put before them, as was the case in Catholicism. While torture chambers are absent from Protestant churches, they are were often found within the walls of Catholic churches.

looks to me like you have drunk the Kool-Aid... meaning: read all the anticatholic authors... who don't know what they are talking about, but act like they do

There were only a very few clergy who abused others back in the middle ages...

Most in the Church back then (as today) are NOT torturing people in any way... although there are of course problems in the Church... And only Catholics KNOW what those problems are... non Catholics dont have a clue... they go chasing after straw men all the time... wasting precious time... dividing the Body of Christ... not attacking the real Enemy

 

[tom55]

The difference is that Protestants had the Bible to decide for themselves what they would believe without threat of TORTURE AND DEATH for refusing to accept all that their leaders put before them, as was the case in Catholicism. While torture chambers are absent from Protestant churches, they are were often found within the walls of Catholic churches.

Do you have any historical proof to back your torture chamber statement? I love studying history and what you are alleging is fascinating!

 

[tom55]

No-one will be condemned because they did not know the truth...people will be condemned because having the opportunity to learn the truth, they refused to investigate what is truth. Following my opening sentence which was the only one you read, is a short explanation of the gospel. Come to Me Jesus said. He did not say come to my church.

Then why did he build a church?

 

[brakelite]

Then why did he build a church?

He gave ministers and pastors for the perfecting of the saints and for the furtherance of the gospel. One becomes a saint the moment he repents of all sin and receives the Savior into His life(justification)...he then grows and matures in Him (sanctification) through the preaching of the word, through witnessing to the love of Christ, and obedience to His commandments.

 

[ScaliaFan]

He gave ministers and pastors for the perfecting of the saints and for the furtherance of the gospel. One becomes a saint the moment he repents of all sin and receives the Savior into His life(justification)...he then grows and matures in Him (sanctification) through the preaching of the word, through witnessing to the love of Christ, and obedience to His commandments.

those ministers/pastors are called priests and bishops

But in the RC Church, the sacraments work regardless of whether or not the priest is in a state of grace -- b/c it is Christ working in HIs Church, not humans who, although they may love Jesus... are not Jesus