The Catholic Church gets put down a lot, but it was all that could help

[Born_Again]

The Church hasn't reversed anything but reformulated a paragraph that applied to the 14 century when there was only one church. "No salvation outside the only church that existed at the time." It's a no brainer. The Church includes all baptized as Christians, but nothing the Church does will ever be good enough for some people. She hands out an olive branch and you spit on it.

Infallibility does not come from popes, bishops or councils. It comes from the words of Jesus and His promise He would always be with us. It is a charism that prevents the Church from teaching error. The pope alone is not infallible.

Matt. 10:20; Luke 12:12 - Jesus tells His apostles it is not they who speak, but the Spirit of their Father speaking through them. If the Spirit is the one speaking and leading the Church, the Church cannot err on matters of faith and morals.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus promises the gates of Hades would never prevail against the Church. This requires that the Church teach infallibly. If the Church did not have the gift of infallibility, the gates of Hades and error would prevail. Also, since the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed up until the Reformation, those who follow the Protestant reformers call Christ a liar by saying that Hades did prevail.

Matt. 16:19 - for Jesus to give Peter and the apostles, mere human beings, the authority to bind in heaven what they bound on earth requires infallibility. This is a gift of the Holy Spirit and has nothing to do with the holiness of the person receiving the gift.

Matt. 18:17-18 - the Church (not Scripture) is the final authority on questions of the faith. This demands infallibility when teaching the faith. She must be prevented from teaching error in order to lead her members to the fullness of salvation.

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus promises that He will be with the Church always. Jesus' presence in the Church assures infallible teaching on faith and morals. With Jesus present, we can never be deceived.

The sola scriptura mindset causes a kind of scriptural blindness, necessitating re-definitions or straw man opposition against the true meaning of infallibility. Sola scriptura MUST reject what the Bible teaches about infallibility.

The Bible repeatedly teaches that the Church is indefectible; therefore, the hypothetical of rejecting the (one true, historic) Church, as supposedly going against the Bible, is impossible according to the Bible. It is not a situation that would ever come up, because of God’s promised protection.

What the Bible says is to reject those who cause divisions, which is the very essence of the onset of Protestantism: schism, sectarianism, and division. It is Protestantism that departed from the historic Church, which is indefectible and infallible (see also 1 Tim 3:15).

Why don't you give your "correct" interpretation of Augustine, Cyprian and Ambrose as they apply to the relevant paragraphs? You judge the catechism based on one page? I can recommend a pill for that.

But the churches understanding of the teachings being infallible is based on what was read in scripture. So therefor, scripture is the written word of God, the one whom gives the authority.

 

[tom55]

Convenient for the RCC to condemn its own, been doing that for nearly 2000 years. If there was a barfing smiley face icon to use here, I would. Tell me tom, what exactly do you think a church is?

[SIZE=12pt]It doesn't matter what I think a church is...it only matters what scripture says about it.[/SIZE]

The Church was established by Jesus with Peter being it's first leader and Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against it. (Matthew 16:18).

*The leader of that Church was given the keys to the kingdom of heaven and they have the authority to bind and loosen (Matthew 16:19).

There is Apostolic Succession in The Church so that whatever the Apostles taught it would be entrusted to faithful people who will be able to teach others as well (2 Timothy 2).

Thru that Apostolic Succession of The Church we will all be in agreement with no divisions amongst us so that we are united in the same mind and the same purpose. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

In different parts of the bible there is clearly a hierarchal structure to The Church.

Leaders of The Church are to be held in high honor (1 Timothy 5:17)

The Church has instructions on what the qualifications are to be a leader (bishop or deacon) in The Church which is also the pillar and foundation of truth. (1 Timothy 3)

The Church leaders, thru Apostolic Succession, have the authority to bind and loosen a mans sin and excommunicate him from The Church (Matthew 18:15-18).

The Church consist of members of the household of God which was built upon the foundation of the apostles (apostolic succession) with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone (Ephesians 2:19-20)

The Church consist of many people and each has their own gift (not all are leaders) and we are all one body in Christ. (Romans 12:5-8, 1 Cor. 12, 10:17)

The first recorded division/disagreement (circumcision) amongst The Church was handled at the Council of Jerusalem were the recognized leader of The Church at that time made a pronouncement on how the matter should be handled (Acts 15:7-11). All at the meeting agreed with that pronouncement and a letter of instruction was sent to all the other Churches on what they should believe and practice (Church dogma/doctrine) about the matter. The leaders of the Council were guided by the Holy Spirit in that decision (Acts 15:28) and that decision became binding upon the entire Church. This meeting was the first example of how The Church should handle their differences and who has the authority to bind/loosen or establish what Christians will practice.


*The symbolism of keys was not an innovation introduced by Jesus. We find the same symbolism in ancient Israel when authority was passed from one to another. The prophet Isaiah foretells that Eliakim will take over the position second in authority to the king of Israel: “I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open” (Isa. 22:22). Part of this authority is the power to bind and to loose. In ancient Israel, this power was understood as the ability to teach authoritatively, to include or exclude someone from the community, and even to forgive a person’s sins. The power to “bind and loose” connotes the authority to absolve sins, to pronounce doctrinal judgments, and to make disciplinary decisions in the Church. Jesus entrusted this authority to the Church through the ministry of the apostles and specifically to Peter, the only one to whom he specifically entrusted the keys of the kingdom.

Respectfully....Tom55

 

[Born_Again]

"The power to “bind and loose” connotes the authority to absolve sins, to pronounce doctrinal judgments, and to make disciplinary decisions in the Church. Jesus entrusted this authority to the Church through the ministry of the apostles and specifically to Peter, [SIZE=12pt]the only one to whom he specifically entrusted the keys of the kingdom"[/SIZE]


If man can absolve you of sin, they did Jesus die on the cross? I lay burdens at the feet of Jesus. Not the pope. The pope cant do a thing for me. But Jesus can.


John 14:6 (NIV)
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

 

[tom55]

"The power to “bind and loose” connotes the authority to absolve sins, to pronounce doctrinal judgments, and to make disciplinary decisions in the Church. Jesus entrusted this authority to the Church through the ministry of the apostles and specifically to Peter, [SIZE=12pt]the only one to whom he specifically entrusted the keys of the kingdom"[/SIZE]


If man can absolve you of sin, they did Jesus die on the cross? I lay burdens at the feet of Jesus. Not the pope. The pope cant do a thing for me. But Jesus can.

John 14:6 (NIV)
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Your quote from John 14 says nothing about sin. So what does scripture say about sin:

Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins...Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins.

I believe the Apostles were men and Jesus gave them the power to absolve sins...If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained (binding/loosening). So it is not a matter of "if man can absolve....sin" it is a matter of why did Jesus give the power of absolving sin to man?

We are also told we can confess our sins to one another and pray for one another so that we may be healed (James 5:16). Why would we be told to confess our sins to each other and pray for each other if those sins can not be absolved by men's prayers?

We are given the power to heal, prophesy and wash away sins thru baptism all via the blessing of God and Holy Spirit. Why couldn't he give us the power to absolve sins?

Is it possible you are getting hung up on it is MAN absolving the sin?.....when in fact it is God absolving the sin, not man. God is doing it VIA man.

The first Christians were Jews and they knew what it meant to "bind and loosen". They knew the Rabbi's had that power and, according to scripture, that power was transferred by Jesus to the leaders of the Christian Church.

 

[epostle1]

But the churches understanding of the teachings being infallible is based on what was read in scripture.

Infallibility has to do with teaching without error. But all infallible statements are derived either directly or indirectly from scripture. It is a gift from God to the Church that prevents her from teaching error. It's from God Himself, not from popes or councils. Heaven cannot bind an error.
So therefor, scripture is the written word of God, the one whom gives the authority.

[/QUOTE]A human earthly authority, guided by the Holy Spirit, put the holy books of the Bible together in the first place. There was no bible as we know it until the 4th century, and almost nobody could read. The relationship between that "human earthly authority", or Magisterium as we call it (formerly known as the seat of Moses) and that of Tradition and Scripture, is the BIBLICAL rule of faith. They work together in harmony, and one is not over the other.



The Bible is the written word of God, but there is nothing in it that says it is the sole rule of faith. Do a bible search on "word of God". Nowhere is the term used to mean "written alone". "Bible alone theory", invented by Martin Luther, is not in the Bible.

"The power to “bind and loose” connotes the authority to absolve sins, to pronounce doctrinal judgments, and to make disciplinary decisions in the Church. Jesus entrusted this authority to the Church through the ministry of the apostles and specifically to Peter, [SIZE=12pt]the only one to whom he specifically entrusted the keys of the kingdom"[/SIZE]


If man can absolve you of sin, they did Jesus die on the cross? I lay burdens at the feet of Jesus. Not the pope. The pope cant do a thing for me. But Jesus can.

Jesus' death on the cross makes absolution possible. Nobody lays burdens at the feet of the Pope. You're being rude.
John 14:6 (NIV)
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

That's funny, the Pope teaches the same thing.

 

[heretoeternity]

That's funny, the Pope teaches the same thing.

Words only..as Jesus said "by their fruits they will be known" Matthew 7.16...and He also said "they honour me with their lips but their hearts are far from me" Matthew 15.8 and "if you love me keep my commandments" John 14.15...

 

[tom55]

Words only..as Jesus said "by their fruits they will be known" Matthew 7.16...and He also said "they honour me with their lips but their hearts are far from me" Matthew 15.8 and "if you love me keep my commandments" John 14.15...

Do you honor him with your lips? Do you keep his commandments?

 

[Phoneman777]

That website is not an official Catholic website and has been condemned by the Catholic Church.

Sooooo....once again what is the biggest lie (or doctrine) that the RCC teaches?

Isn't it true that the official position of the Papacy is that "there is no salvation apart from Christ and His holy, apostolic Catholic church"? As a Protestant who recognizes the Bible - my "paper Pope" - as the only authority of God on Earth, and His Holy Spirit as Christ's only Vicar on Earth, I cannot accept this, but rather than condemn it as a "lie" (for a lie is something deliberate), I will say it is only error. The great Spurgeon once said it is the duty of every true Christian to fight against the errors of the Papal Antichrist, not embrace and yield to her authority.

 

[epostle1]

Isn't it true that the official position of the Papacy is that "there is no salvation apart from Christ and His holy, apostolic Catholic church"? As a Protestant who recognizes the Bible - my "paper Pope" - as the only authority of God on Earth, and His Holy Spirit as Christ's only Vicar on Earth, I cannot accept this, but rather than condemn it as a "lie" (for a lie is something deliberate), I will say it is only error. The great Spurgeon once said it is the duty of every true Christian to fight against the errors of the Papal Antichrist, not embrace and yield to her authority.

Wounds to unity
817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276
CCC

2. Nevertheless, besides the doctrinal differences needing to be resolved, Christians cannot underestimate the burden of long-standing misgivings inherited from the past, and of mutual misunderstandings and prejudices. Complacency, indifference and insufficient knowledge of one another often make this situation worse. Consequently, the commitment to ecumenism must be based upon the conversion of hearts and upon prayer, which will also lead to the necessary purification of past memories.

With the grace of the Holy Spirit, the Lord's disciples, inspired by love, by the power of the truth and by a sincere desire for mutual forgiveness and reconciliation, are called to [/size]re-examine together their painful past and the hurt which that past regrettably continues to provoke even today. All together, they are invited by the ever fresh power of the Gospel to acknowledge with sincere and total objectivity the mistakes made and the contingent factors at work at the origins of their deplorable divisions.[/size] What is needed is a calm, clear-sighted and truthful vision of things, a vision enlivened by divine mercy and capable of freeing people's minds and of inspiring in everyone a renewed willingness, precisely with a view to proclaiming the Gospel to the men and women of every people and nation.

3. At the Second Vatican Council, the Catholic Church committed herself irrevocably to following the path of the ecumenical venture, thus heeding the Spirit of the Lord, who teaches people to interpret carefully the "signs of the times" . The experiences of these years have made the Church even more profoundly aware of her identity and her mission in history. The Catholic Church acknowledges and confesses the weaknesses of her members, conscious that their sins are so many betrayals of and obstacles to the accomplishment of the Saviour's plan. Because she feels herself constantly called to be renewed in the spirit of the Gospel, she does not cease to do penance. At the same time, she acknowledges and exalts still more the power of the Lord, who fills her with the gift of holiness, leads her forward, and conforms her to his Passion and Resurrection.

Taught by the events of her history, the Church is committed to freeing herself from every purely human support, in order to live in depth the Gospel law of the Beatitudes. Conscious that the truth does not impose itself except "by virtue of its own truth, as it makes its entrance into the mind at once quietly and with power", she seeks nothing for herself but the freedom to proclaim the Gospel. Indeed, her authority is exercised in the service of truth and charity...

UT UNUM SINT on commitment to Ecumenism


Pope Francis Meets With Evangelical, Pentecostal Leaders in John 17 Spirit (Interview)

 

[heretoeternity]

Do you honor him with your lips? Do you keep his commandments?

Actions speak louder than words obviously..It is necessary to "walk the walk" not only "talk the talk"

 

[tom55]

Isn't it true that the official position of the Papacy is that "there is no salvation apart from Christ and His holy, apostolic Catholic church"? As a Protestant who recognizes the Bible - my "paper Pope" - as the only authority of God on Earth, and His Holy Spirit as Christ's only Vicar on Earth, I cannot accept this, but rather than condemn it as a "lie" (for a lie is something deliberate), I will say it is only error. The great Spurgeon once said it is the duty of every true Christian to fight against the errors of the Papal Antichrist, not embrace and yield to her authority.

I already answered that question and I have already shown it to be completely and utterly false. However, I will debunk it again:

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

Now that your lie has been refuted with facts do you have another biggest lie (or doctrine) that the RCC teaches?

 

[tom55]

Actions speak louder than words obviously..It is necessary to "walk the walk" not only "talk the talk"

That makes no sense.

 

[epostle1]

Isn't it true that the official position of the Papacy is that "there is no salvation apart from Christ and His holy, apostolic Catholic church"?

Not exactly. Scroll up to post #609. The Catholic Church includes your church as "separated brethren". So you are a part of the church; the degree of separation from the original historic Church varies from one church to the next. The Catholic Church did not separate from anybody. She is not your enemy.
As a Protestant who recognizes the Bible - my "paper Pope" - as the only authority of God on Earth,

That's nice. The problem is that nowhere in the Bible does it say it is the only authority of God on earth. Bible alone theology was invented by Martin Luther. It is an illogical, unworkable, unbiblical false tradition of men.

and His Holy Spirit as Christ's only Vicar on Earth,

I don't know that comes from. "Vicar" means ambassador or servant, a highly erroneous title for the Holy Spirit.

I cannot accept this, but rather than condemn it as a "lie" (for a lie is something deliberate), I will say it is only error. The great Spurgeon once said it is the duty of every true Christian to fight against the errors of the Papal Antichrist, not embrace and yield to her authority.

The "Papal Antichrist" signed the final draft of the canon of scripture, as well as the verdicts on the Trinity at the Councils of Nicae, Ephesus, and Chalcedon WHICH IS ACCEPTED BY ALL. "Papal Antichrist" is anti-Catholic bigotry and ignorance, and that kind of thinking has poisoned the minds of many.

Tom55 gave a very good link What No Salvation Outside the Church Means, and it's not what many people think.

 

[Phoneman777]

Wounds to unity
817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276
CCC

2. Nevertheless, besides the doctrinal differences needing to be resolved, Christians cannot underestimate the burden of long-standing misgivings inherited from the past, and of mutual misunderstandings and prejudices. Complacency, indifference and insufficient knowledge of one another often make this situation worse. Consequently, the commitment to ecumenism must be based upon the conversion of hearts and upon prayer, which will also lead to the necessary purification of past memories.

With the grace of the Holy Spirit, the Lord's disciples, inspired by love, by the power of the truth and by a sincere desire for mutual forgiveness and reconciliation, are called to [/size]re-examine together their painful past and the hurt which that past regrettably continues to provoke even today. All together, they are invited by the ever fresh power of the Gospel to acknowledge with sincere and total objectivity the mistakes made and the contingent factors at work at the origins of their deplorable divisions.[/size] What is needed is a calm, clear-sighted and truthful vision of things, a vision enlivened by divine mercy and capable of freeing people's minds and of inspiring in everyone a renewed willingness, precisely with a view to proclaiming the Gospel to the men and women of every people and nation.

3. At the Second Vatican Council, the Catholic Church committed herself irrevocably to following the path of the ecumenical venture, thus heeding the Spirit of the Lord, who teaches people to interpret carefully the "signs of the times" . The experiences of these years have made the Church even more profoundly aware of her identity and her mission in history. The Catholic Church acknowledges and confesses the weaknesses of her members, conscious that their sins are so many betrayals of and obstacles to the accomplishment of the Saviour's plan. Because she feels herself constantly called to be renewed in the spirit of the Gospel, she does not cease to do penance. At the same time, she acknowledges and exalts still more the power of the Lord, who fills her with the gift of holiness, leads her forward, and conforms her to his Passion and Resurrection.

Taught by the events of her history, the Church is committed to freeing herself from every purely human support, in order to live in depth the Gospel law of the Beatitudes. Conscious that the truth does not impose itself except "by virtue of its own truth, as it makes its entrance into the mind at once quietly and with power", she seeks nothing for herself but the freedom to proclaim the Gospel. Indeed, her authority is exercised in the service of truth and charity...

UT UNUM SINT on commitment to Ecumenism


Pope Francis Meets With Evangelical, Pentecostal Leaders in John 17 Spirit (Interview)

What about those of us who reject Catholicism and the authority of the Pope, not by virtue of having been raised in the Protestant tradition which leaves me "blinded to RCC truth", but because we believe the Papacy is the Antichrist of Bible prophecy, as depicted in the texts of the infallible Word of God. Is there any hope for men like Luther, Calvin, Tyndale, me, etc? (I would have included Wycliffe's name, but Rome has already eternally condemned him as a heretic when they dug up his bones and burned them to ashes).

 

[Phoneman777]

I already answered that question and I have already shown it to be completely and utterly false. However, I will debunk it again:

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

Now that your lie has been refuted with facts do you have another biggest lie (or doctrine) that the RCC teaches?

Tom, you're the one who is lying. This is what your church claims:

Extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

So, my Antichrist worshiping friend, own up to it and dispense with your lies.

 

[Phoneman777]

Isn't it true that the official position of the Papacy is that "there is no salvation apart from Christ and His holy, apostolic Catholic church"?

Not exactly. Scroll up to post #609. The Catholic Church includes your church as "separated brethren". So you are a part of the church; the degree of separation from the original historic Church varies from one church to the next. The Catholic Church did not separate from anybody. She is not your enemy.
As a Protestant who recognizes the Bible - my "paper Pope" - as the only authority of God on Earth,

That's nice. The problem is that nowhere in the Bible does it say it is the only authority of God on earth. Bible alone theology was invented by Martin Luther. It is an illogical, unworkable, unbiblical false tradition of men.

and His Holy Spirit as Christ's only Vicar on Earth,

I don't know that comes from. "Vicar" means ambassador or servant, a highly erroneous title for the Holy Spirit.

I cannot accept this, but rather than condemn it as a "lie" (for a lie is something deliberate), I will say it is only error. The great Spurgeon once said it is the duty of every true Christian to fight against the errors of the Papal Antichrist, not embrace and yield to her authority.

The "Papal Antichrist" signed the final draft of the canon of scripture, as well as the verdicts on the Trinity at the Councils of Nicae, Ephesus, and Chalcedon WHICH IS ACCEPTED BY ALL. "Papal Antichrist" is anti-Catholic bigotry and ignorance, and that kind of thinking has poisoned the minds of many.

Tom55 gave a very good link What No Salvation Outside the Church Means, and it's not what many people think.





While I condemn no one and regard those who innocently practice the errors of Catholicism as blameless in the sight of God, I declare that the Papacy is the Antichrist system holding the Bishop of Rome as its leader, and that his doctrines are from the pits of hell, including the Eucharist, the Transubstantiation, Marian apparitions which are demonic impersonations, the Rosary with all its Mysteries, the Confessional, the entire priesthood from the throne in St. Peter's Basilica down to the lowest monk, and I trust Jesus and His Word implicitly and exclusively for my Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification.

Now, according to Roman Canon Law, am I lost or will I be lost if I refuse to recant the above?

 

[epostle1]

While I condemn no one and regard those who innocently practice the errors of Catholicism as blameless in the sight of God, I declare that the Papacy is the Antichrist system holding the Bishop of Rome as its leader, and that his doctrines are from the pits of hell, including the Eucharist, the Transubstantiation, Marian apparitions which are demonic impersonations, the Rosary with all its Mysteries, the Confessional, the entire priesthood from the throne in St. Peter's Basilica down to the lowest monk, and I trust Jesus and His Word implicitly and exclusively for my Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification.

Now, according to Roman Canon Law, am I lost or will I be lost if I refuse to recant the above?

You listed about 8 different topics, which proves you are not interested in any explanations. It's called the shot gun tactic, or cluster bombing, a tactic made to keep Catholics running in circles. You had no reply to my post #601 so you throw a temper tantrum instead. I'll discuss anything but I don't reply to multiple topics in a single hateful rant. You claim to trust Jesus and His Word implicitly but deny "His word" that teaches the Church will never fall away. You claim to trust Jesus and His Word implicitly but deny "His word" that Jesus builds an infallible indefectable Church. Scroll up to post #601, you missed it or ignored it. Post #614 is another one that demolishes false pre-conceived notions about unity.
There are no provisions in canon law for blind prejudice.

I don't think you are lost, just confused by the various opinions of the so called reformers, and misled by today's' tidal wave of anti-Catholic polemics. Post #614 is another one that demolishes false pre-conceived notions. So you post insulting red herrings as distractions because that's how you deal with posts you can't answer.

 

[epostle1]

Tom, you're the one who is lying. This is what your church claims:

Extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

So, my Antichrist worshiping friend, own up to it and dispense with your lies.

How can Extra ecclesiam nulla salus be a lie when you refuse to read the link
What No Salvation Outside the Church Means? Or does it shatter your misconceptions that badly you can only retort with meaningless one liners?

One of the most misunderstood teachings of the Catholic Church is this one:
"Outside the Church there is no salvation" (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus).

Those trying to grasp the meaning of this teaching often struggle with its formulations by various Church Fathers and Church Councils down through history. Of course, to understand an isolated formulation of any Church teaching,

one must study the historical context within which it was written:

why it was written,

what was going on in the Church at the time,

who the intended audience was, and so on. (anti-Catholics can only quote out of these contexts)

One must discover how the magisterium (teaching office) of the Church understands its own teaching. If someone fails to do this and chooses, rather, to simply treat a particular formulation as a stand-alone teaching, he runs the risk of seriously misunderstanding it. (what phoneman does)

In recent times, the Church has recognized that its teaching about the necessity of the Catholic Church for salvation has been widely misunderstood, so it has "re-formulated" this teaching in a positive way. Here is how the Catechism of the Catholic Church begins to address this topic:

"How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Reformulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body" (CCC 846).
phoneman calls this a lie.

In keeping with the Church’s current spirit of ecumenism, this positive reformulation comes across less harshly than previous negative formulations. Even so, it remains quite controversial. So, let’s see how this new formulation squares with Scripture.

Jesus, the Way
The first part of the reformulated teaching—"all salvation comes from Christ the Head"—is quite easy for all Christians, even non-Catholics, to understand and embrace. It echoes Jesus’ own words recorded by John: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me" (Jn 14:6). So, Christians unanimously agree on this first part. But is this all that needs to be said about how one may be saved? The Catholic Church has historically recognized the importance of explaining further the means through which salvation is offered through Christ.
continued here

 

[heretoeternity]

kepka..read Revelation 17 and 18...

 

[Josho]

Firstly not all Catholics are born again but some Catholics are, so long as they only serve Jesus, have repented, have asked the Holy Ghost into their hearts, have been baptized by water and the spirit then yes they are born again and are just another Christian denomination. Secondly the word of God does not say the Pope is the anti-christ, and the Holy Spirit hasn't told me he is either, and while some may worship the Pope, not every catholic does. It's amazing i don't know even know where ya all get your information from about the Anti-Christ?. The Anti-Christ is anyone who is against Christ. And I'm pretty sure this Pope St Francis is not against Christ, no matter what Christian media say about him, he is not a native English speaker and can easily be misintepretated. Don't ya all realize the world is gonna get a lot worst? Jeez the end of ends are gonna be as bad as the days of Noah.