The Catholic Church is a Christian Church

[amadeus]

And when one who is really hungry and thirsty for God's kingdom and His righteous comes here, will he see this mess and have to go elsewhere for God to fill him? Help us dear Lord!

 

[brakelite]

Deceieved? The world will be hailing him as a hero and actively assist him in the persecution of the Church.
The Holocaust was just a warmup...

Deceived? Yes. Because while it is true they will welcome this Antichrist mindset and system, even to accepting its mark in recognition of its authority, to the point of helping it in the carrying out of its death decree against dissenters, it is still deception because they fail to recognise who it truly is. They fail to see the Satanic influence behind it, because it purports to be Christian and puts on a fair façade.

 

[epostle1]

“The way you can tell that relativism is mainstream,” I said, “is that there is no such thing as rational debate. In the absence of objective truth, there can be no debate, for a debate is dependent on the assumption that there is something to debate. A debate can only take place if there is such a thing as truth to be debated, and without that basic assumption, one person’s opinion on a matter must be as valid as the next person’s. In the absence of objective truth, the only way to make a decision is utilitarianism or sentimentality.”...

...by “objective truth,” we do not simply mean verbal propositions that we believe to be factual. By “objective truth” we mean more than a philosophical treatise, a theological creed, or a political constitution. Instead, by “objective truth” we mean a cohesive and integrated system of thought which makes sense of every aspect of reality. This cohesive system of thought even makes room for that which is unpredictable and inexplicable by allowing for certain uncertainties. Finally, this “objective truth” is not only a statement of truth propositions and a cohesive system of analysis and integration, but it is also a model for life, a code of behavior, a chart for relationships, and a blueprint for community co-existence. In other words, for this truth to be true it must wear working clothes. It does so not only to prove its practicality, but also to prove its durability. The truth must work and keep working. It must be alive and active and real...

This cohesive, integrated system of thought which we regard to be true is what has been destroyed by the poison of relativism, and the result of relativism can only be dictatorship. The strong must prevail. Nietzsche was right in a way he did not foresee. Nihilism will produce the übermensch not because it should, but because it must. It must because there is no other alternative to the nihilism of relativism than the triumph of the superman. If all is relative who wins the argument? The strongest.

The most terrifying aspect to this truth is that the indifferent will cry out for the domination of the superman. Most dictatorships are welcomed for what they offer. In the lack of objective truth and objective morality what the strongman says is true and what the strongman does is good. Suddenly out of the quicksand of relativism salvation comes. A light shines in the darkness. If the dictator cannot bring meaning out of the mindlessness, at least he can bring order out of the chaos. If he cannot bring beauty out of the beastliness, at least he can promise security in the midst of terror. If he cannot bring morality out of the morass at least he can impose law on the lawless.

This is why, in the end times, “the abomination of desolation will stand in the holy place.” The antichrist will stand there and he will be worshipped and adored for he will save his people from their relativism. He will promise to deliver them from their self created hell while still allowing them all their decadent pleasures. He will be someone at last to believe in and serve and they will fall at his feet like a million gibbering gollums, longing to be his devotees, his debauchees, his supplicating victims, and his willing slaves.
Relativism and the Antichrist - The Imaginative Conservative

 

[Helen]

In an effort to bring a more balanced perspective, I offer the following.
Jesus Christ. Who is He? Let us go to the scriptures to find out what and Who He claimed to be.

Mathew 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple...

The temple, the priesthood, and the religious system including all the ceremonies, the sacrifices, and the law of the Jewish nation go hand in hand. It was the mainstay and focal point of the life of Israel. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater. Greater even than the very High priest who no doubt would take great interest in hearing a report of these words. Greater even than the law itself, because He was the lawgiver.

….38 ¶ Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here…

Jonah was the most powerful and successful of all OT prophets. In all 40 odd chapters of Jeremiah, there is no record of anyone at anytime taking the slightest bit of notice of anything Jeremiah said. Yet Jonah, on the strength of just one or two sermons, converted the entire city of Nineveh of the children of Ishmael totaling maybe 60,000 people. By any standards, that has got to be recorded as a very successful evangelistic campaign. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater than Jonah.

…42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

Solomon was the wisest and wealthiest and most successful of any ruler of the ancient world. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater even than Solomon.

He claimed to be a greater priest than the current high priest of Israel, He claimed to be a greater prophet than Jonah, and He claimed to be a greater King than Solomon. In these three startling claims, we have before us the threefold ministry of Jesus. Priest, prophet, and King.

It has been said, and I think wisely, that the Bible must be understood grammatically before it can be understood theologically. Anti– as in antichrist, according to Strong’s concordance, and like other words having the prefix ‘anti’, means at it’s most basic form “in the room of”, “instead of”, or “in the place of”.
In other words, ‘antichrist’ stands as a substitute. We all know that Satan works by deception. Yet many claim the ‘antichrist’ will be one who will charge in on a black horse guns blazing with fury and hatred directed at all things Christian and opposing with great force the church. Pray tell me, how will the world be deceived by such a tactic as this?
In 2 Thess. 2:1 we are told that there was to be a falling away first, which will reveal the antichrist, or as Paul describes him, the man of sin or son of perdition. Now falling away in this instance is a falling into apostasy; divorce.
Any divorce necessitates a prior favourable relationship. The only other example of a ‘son of perdition’ is Judas Iscariot. Did Judas openly and with force oppose Christ? Did he attack His teachings and disagree with Jesus claims to divinity? Did he argue and debate everything Jesus stood for and seek the destruction of His followers? No. Not by any means. Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss. He betrayed Him with an act of apparent love, fellowship, and friendship. He undermined and betrayed Jesus at the same time as claiming Him to be his friend!! This squares perfectly with the meaning of antichrist. He is not an open enemy, but a subtle traitor. And in a religious sense, a counterfeit. An impostor of Jesus Christ. A false copy, or forgery of the true.
Antichrist is therefore a person or power who impersonates the offices of Priesthood, the Prophet or spokesmanship, and the Kingly rule of Christ. The office that ministers for God, speaks for God, and rules for God.

Does such an entity sound like one that we should come to terms with...tolerate...?
Or should we repudiate every teaching that does not harmonise completely with the word of God? With the Antichrist...the counterfeit...we must be careful. Because his teachings will appear to be in harmony with scripture, and he will most assuredly claim that are in harmony with scripture. Thus there is only one way by which to unmask this traitor. By close, intense, unfettered scrutiny. Anything short of that aids his deceptions. Anything short of that will continue to allow him to be unrecognised...unmasked...

Of course any individual, or institution that comes under such scrutiny should be readily able and willing to allow such tests to take place yes? In order to vindicate his claims to truth? Will he protest such scrutiny, or will he present clear and indisputable evidence that he does indeed believe that man does not live by bread alone, but by every word of God?

Wow...thank you...that did show me "where you are coming from"..now I understand you more.

I can see what you see in what you write here.
I still believe that Catholics too are Christians ...we differ on many things ..even many important things.
I used to, decades ago, also believe about the anti-christ and false prophet..I was hooked on it all via an old pastor we had.
Only later did I see it very differently ...

Thanks for showing us what you believe and why. Appreciate it.

I would rather judge it as not so, and find that I am wrong..than judge it as you do , and then find that you were wrong about it.

Blessings...and thank you....Helen

 

[Philip James]

Deceived? Yes. Because while it is true they will welcome this Antichrist mindset and system

Wake up, 'they' have already embraced this system? The culture of death is all around us... And it has Christians, ALL Christians in its sights... It cannot abide us and so it will seek to destroy us.

And when it outlaws the daily sacrifice its gonna get real ugly....

Youre looking at the wrong bogeyman.

Peace!

 

[brakelite]

“The way you can tell that relativism is mainstream,” I said, “is that there is no such thing as rational debate. In the absence of objective truth, there can be no debate, for a debate is dependent on the assumption that there is something to debate. A debate can only take place if there is such a thing as truth to be debated, and without that basic assumption, one person’s opinion on a matter must be as valid as the next person’s. In the absence of objective truth, the only way to make a decision is utilitarianism or sentimentality.”...

...by “objective truth,” we do not simply mean verbal propositions that we believe to be factual. By “objective truth” we mean more than a philosophical treatise, a theological creed, or a political constitution. Instead, by “objective truth” we mean a cohesive and integrated system of thought which makes sense of every aspect of reality. This cohesive system of thought even makes room for that which is unpredictable and inexplicable by allowing for certain uncertainties. Finally, this “objective truth” is not only a statement of truth propositions and a cohesive system of analysis and integration, but it is also a model for life, a code of behavior, a chart for relationships, and a blueprint for community co-existence. In other words, for this truth to be true it must wear working clothes. It does so not only to prove its practicality, but also to prove its durability. The truth must work and keep working. It must be alive and active and real...

This cohesive, integrated system of thought which we regard to be true is what has been destroyed by the poison of relativism, and the result of relativism can only be dictatorship. The strong must prevail. Nietzsche was right in a way he did not foresee. Nihilism will produce the übermensch not because it should, but because it must. It must because there is no other alternative to the nihilism of relativism than the triumph of the superman. If all is relative who wins the argument? The strongest.

The most terrifying aspect to this truth is that the indifferent will cry out for the domination of the superman. Most dictatorships are welcomed for what they offer. In the lack of objective truth and objective morality what the strongman says is true and what the strongman does is good. Suddenly out of the quicksand of relativism salvation comes. A light shines in the darkness. If the dictator cannot bring meaning out of the mindlessness, at least he can bring order out of the chaos. If he cannot bring beauty out of the beastliness, at least he can promise security in the midst of terror. If he cannot bring morality out of the morass at least he can impose law on the lawless.

This is why, in the end times, “the abomination of desolation will stand in the holy place.” The antichrist will stand there and he will be worshipped and adored for he will save his people from their relativism. He will promise to deliver them from their self created hell while still allowing them all their decadent pleasures. He will be someone at last to believe in and serve and they will fall at his feet like a million gibbering gollums, longing to be his devotees, his debauchees, his supplicating victims, and his willing slaves.

Ordo ab Chao. The trick is in recognising the players in the hegellian dialectic being played out in front of our eyes. We have the left, and the right. The conservatives and the liberals. Democrats, republicans. Extremes on both sides at every hand. But whose really playing the hands? Who is standing aloof ready at the opportune time to step in and pick up the pieces of the dismantled puzzle and place them back according to his own agenda? Who is garnering the support of the nations as we speak and establishing himself as the only candidate with the moral mandate to take power? And what organisations are working together to back his claim to fame and power?
Who was the first abomination of desolation that Jesus said would soon stand and place their standards of idolatry in the holy place, eventually levelling the temple and wasting God's people? Whose armies were they? History repeats.

 

[Helen]

Wake up, 'they' have already embraced this system? The culture of death is all around us... And it has Christians, ALL Christians in its sights... It cannot abide us and so it will seek to destroy us.

And when it outlaws the daily sacrifice its gonna get real ugly....

Youre looking at the wrong bogeyman.

Peace!

I believe that too...it has already started happening...the ball is in motion.
But we know that it may be their plan to destroy Christianity from the face of the earth...but God has His Plan...and His Plan will not fail.

 

[Josiah]

The Roman Church (the first denomination, which is the "ancestor" to the Catholic Church, the various Eastern Orthodox Churches and Oriental Orthodox Churches) was founded in the 4th Century by the Roman Empire as the official, legal, "state" church of itself for itself. IMO, all of these are valid denominations, certainly as valid as others we could name such as The United Methodist Church or Southern Baptist Convention or Assemblies of God or Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod. I don't think this has anything whatsoever to do with any parishes mentioned in the Book of Revelation.

I disagree with a FEW (a remarkably few) of its dogmas. These primarily are Ecclesiology (the doctrine of the church) and Epistemology (especially the issue of accountability and norming), I think the teachings regarded Justification are very unclear and at times incorrect. There are also a FEW (remarkably few) Dogmas that I don't reject as opinions but do as dogma (the "issue" being primarily its status), some of the Marian views, for example. But I think all-in-all, the vast majority of its teachings are sound. And I admire the clear, bold pro-life, pro-family, pro-morality, pro-service stand. I was raised Catholic and I am thankful for that. Most of my family are Catholic (although not all active).

I eventually "left" that denomination (purely for theological reasons) and eventually "landed" in Lutheranism (The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod). About half of the members of my Lutheran church are former Catholics.

My perspective.


- Josiah


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