The Catholic Church

[Catholic Crusader]

Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He then noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return. Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established. The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. Any merely human organization would have collapsed long ago. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with over a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). Although some Catholics dissent from officially-taught doctrines, the Church’s official teachers—the pope and the bishops united with him—have never changed any doctrine. Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19).The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20). He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church. The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15). Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.

 

[Templar81]

Catholic Crusader

It's nice to hjear from someone else on the forum whoes chruchmanship is similar to my own. Being an Anglo-Catholic (High Anglican) I share much of the doctrines of the Roman Church and consider that the Anglican Communion, especially the Church of England through "Branch Tehory" myself to be just as Catholic as any Roman Catholic. Remember the Niceane Creed; Unum Sanctum Catholicam et Apostollicam Eccliasiam, that is to say One Holy and Apostollic Church. What do you think of branch theory? I've heard that many RC's don't take it seriously but surely it is good for Eccumenicalism in that it stresses the common ground between Anglicans, Roman Catholics and Orthodox. Next year I hope to visit the Shrine of Our Lady at Walsingham and perhaps after that Sant Iago de Compostella. I would like to do this especially since St james is my patron.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Catholic Crusader

It's nice to hjear from someone else on the forum whoes chruchmanship is similar to my own. Being an Anglo-Catholic (High Anglican) I share much of the doctrines of the Roman Church and consider that the Anglican Communion, especially the Church of England through "Branch Tehory" myself to be just as Catholic as any Roman Catholic. Remember the Niceane Creed; Unum Sanctum Catholicam et Apostollicam Eccliasiam, that is to say One Holy and Apostollic Church. What do you think of branch theory? I've heard that many RC's don't take it seriously but surely it is good for Eccumenicalism in that it stresses the common ground between Anglicans, Roman Catholics and Orthodox. Next year I hope to visit the Shrine of Our Lady at Walsingham and perhaps after that Sant Iago de Compostella. I would like to do this especially since St james is my patron.

Ahh, that is very interesting. Thank you for the reply. What do you know about the "Taditional Anglicans"? I spoke to one once that says they stricty adhere to the entire Catechism of the Catholic Church. I think they are a smaller group seeking full complete communion with Rome. I take it you are not THAT "High" of an Anglican! LOL.

This article may interest you: http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2010/1001fea4.asp

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[01CobraVortech]

I grew up in the Catholic Church and went to Catholic elementary school. While I disagree with many things practiced by this church and some of the beliefs it has, like the authentic nature of the Fatima apparition, I don't like taking shots at this church because many believers have been produced by the catholic Church down through the ages.

 

[Templar81]

Not all Anglo-Catholics seek reunion iwht Rome because if they did they would all be Roman Catholics by now wouldn't they? You made quite a sweeping statement there because there really are varying degreess depending on the congregation. Basically I often find that I ahve more in common with the Catholic Catechism than the Anglican one because I believ there are 7 Sacraments ot 2 and I I believe in Transubstanciation, Immaculat conception of Mary and the Intercession of saints, why do you think James the son of Thunder is ny patron. Now last I checked these are quite against the 39 articles. I fyou study the origins of Anglo-Catholicism basically what you find is that it is not just a desire to do as the Romans do but to go back to how christianity was practised in England in the Middle Ages (litturgically I mean). Thias was called the "Oxford movemt" which was not pre-Papal but distinctly english and stressed that justbecuse someone is cut off from Rome, that doesn't make them any less Catholic because they are part of the Universal catholic church. What happens though is that many Anglo Cotholics find that they have little in common with other Anglicans and feel more affinity with Rome, so they become Roman Catholics or Papists (not meant to be derogatory). As far as churchmanship goes, yes I could be higher in which case I'd probably be reconciled to Rome and I've often considered it.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

I grew up in the Catholic Church and went to Catholic elementary school. While I disagree with many things practiced by this church and some of the beliefs it has, like the authentic nature of the Fatima apparition, I don't like taking shots at this church because many believers have been produced by the catholic Church down through the ages.

Well, I appreciate that. Disagreement is okay, as it can lead to discussion and understanding. Taking shots is something that does unfortunately happen in forums though. Taking shots is best left to politicians, not us Christians.

Just as a side note: Belief in Fatima is not a Church teaching. Fatima and Lourdes and Guadalupe, and others, is what the Church refers to as "Private Revelation". Private Revelation - as opposed to Public Revelation which was handed down by the Apostles - is not required to be believed by the faithful. If the Church finds no error in such revelations, it will say that you CAN accept it if you wish, but you do not have to.

Not all Anglo-Catholics seek reunion iwht Rome because if they did they would all be Roman Catholics by now wouldn't they? You made quite a sweeping statement there because there really are varying degreess depending on the congregation.......

I'm sorry. I guess I should have made myself more clear. When I said "Traditional Anglicans" I was referring to the Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC). (At least, I think that is the correct group.) Wikipedia says:

"The Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC) is an international communion of churches in the continuing Anglican movement independent of the Anglican Communion and the Archbishop of Canterbury...."

".....In October 2007 the bishops of TAC formally expressed the desire to enter into full unity with the See of Rome without losing core Anglican distinctives[2] and declared their adherence to the doctrines expressed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.[3] In a statement authorised by Archbishop Hepworth on 16 October 2007:
* The College of Bishops of the Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC) met in Plenary Session in Portsmouth, England, in the first week of October 2007. The Bishops and Vicars-General unanimously agreed to the text of a letter to the See of Rome seeking full, corporate, sacramental union. The letter was signed solemnly by all the College and entrusted to the Primate and two bishops chosen by the College to be presented to the Holy See. The letter was cordially received at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. The Primate of the TAC has agreed that no member of the College will give interviews until the Holy See has considered the letter and responded......"

LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Anglican_Communion

 

[bobhickman]

i'm retired so I can go to church almost every day, excpet maybe mondy, I sometimes go to the catholic church, and I believe those people want to be saved just like all the rest..... I like this board, thanks, i'm going to place links on webbyys . -

 

[Guestman]

"A vast cache of child pornography and photos of young priests having sex " was " discovered at a Roman Catholic seminary" in St Polten , Austria, according to a July 13, 2004 CNN report. Bishop Kurt Krenn (born June 28, 1936), who oversaw the diocese, refused to step down, however, dismissing the images as a "childish prank." The CNN report further added that " the seminary's director, the Rev. Ulrich Kuechl, resigned along with his deputy, Wolfgang Rothe, the diocese said after the meeting....As many as 40,000 photos and an undisclosed number of films, including child pornography, were found a year ago (in 2003) on computers at the seminary, the respected (Polish) news magazine Profil reported." The report said that Profil " published several images purportedly showing young priests and their instructors kissing and fondling each other, and said others showed them engaging in orgies and sex games. The child porn came mostly from Web sites based in Poland, the magazine said."

According to Wikipedia, " a number of photographs have emerged in the Austrian media showing alleged homosexual acts among seminarists and between Ulrich Küchl, the regens of the seminary and seminarists, which were allegedly performed at a Christmas party. Krenn publicly downplayed the accusations, calling the alleged homosexual acts shown on the pictures "boyish pranks". It added: " Some of Krenn's measures regarding the administration of the seminary have been criticized as having been conducive to the scandal. Krenn removed the St. Pölten seminary from the common educational framework of Austrian seminaries and allegedly lowered the standards of admission, allowing aspiring priests into the seminary who had been turned down elsewhere for psychological reasons. Also, his appointment policies with respect to the management of the seminary were increasingly seen as problematic."

" In late July 2004, the Vatican appointed Klaus Küng, the bishop of Feldkirch, Vorarlberg as apostolic visitator to Krenn's diocese and order to investigate the occurrences. Church authorities have since then forbidden Krenn to give any interviews, an order that was at first completely ignored and later even publicly rejected by Krenn (saying ' I can do whatever I want ' ). A member of the seminary of Polish origin was judged to be guilty of the possession of child pornographic pictures. Complying with a papal wish, Krenn announced his resignation at the end of September 2004. On October 7, 2004 he was succeeded by Klaus Küng." It futher added that " Krenn is good friends with Pope Benedict XVI, who sent him a consoling letter on June 18, 2005."

Thus, has not the Roman Catholic church here shown a gross disregard for the moral principles of the Bible by Pope Benedict himself, "consoling" Mr. Krenn rather than seeking, not only his resignation, but seeing to it that a criminal investigation was instituted. Hence, how should their "flock" feel about this immoral behavior if these truly wants to follow the guidelines of the Bible ?

On March 30, 2006, A CNN report was entitled: " Catholic leaders report 783 new claims of abuse in 2005 ". It stated that " New figures released...by the nation's Roman Catholic bishops show the unrelenting toll of the clergy sex abuse crisis: 783 new credible claims last year, most of which date back decades, and costs of nearly $467 million. The abuse problem was already known to have cost dioceses more than $1 billion since that 1950, including some expenses paid last year. Still, Teresa Kettelkamp, director of the bishops' Office of Child and Youth Protection, said the total abuse-related expenses shelled out in 2005 were likely the largest ever for a single year. The total number of accusations against Catholic clergy now stands at more than 12,000 since 1950."

Did not Jesus say to " be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them."(Matt 7:15,16) And are not many seeing for themselves the immoral behavior of the Roman Catholic church, by, for one, forbidding priests to marry. The apostle Paul wrote, by inspiration, this concerning our time period: " The inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron; forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth."(1 Tim 4:1-3) Thus, is not the Roman Catholic church " paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons...forbidding to marry " concerning their priests and which strongly encourages sexual deviations ?

On July 14, 2007, " The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles reached a settlement agreement Saturday with more than 500 people who allege they were sexually abused by clergy." (CNN report) The deal was valued at $660 million, and CNN reported that "it is by far the largest payout in the church's sexual abuse scandal, and it exceeded earlier reports from sources that the settlement would be between $600 million and $650 million."

Or what of Tommaso Stenico, a Monsignor of the Vatican, that was " heard saying that he "didn't feel he was sinning" by having sex with gay men."(CNN report, Oct 13, 2007) He was recorded as "making advances to a young man and asserting that gay sex was not sinful" by an Italian TV program. Though the Vatican suspended him, is he not among the myriads of priests who have been caught, being guilty of porneia (Greek), or fornication.

The apostle Paul was inspired to write that " God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error...Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them."(Rom 1:26,27,32)

On January 7, 2007, CNN reported that the Archbishop of Warsaw, Stanislaw Wielgus, resigned " after admitting he spied for Poland's former communist regime, in a major embarrassment for the Vatican and the powerful Polish Catholic Church." The report further said that " The Church was a key support for the pro-democracy Solidarity movement during the 1980s but historians say as much as 10 percent of the clergy could have cooperated with the Soviet-backed regime and its feared secret police." This former Archbishop said that " It was a huge organization that penetrated all layers of Polish society and in particular the clergy, which was the most independent and patriotic group." Did not Jesus say that his disciples would be "no part of the world", (John 15:19) being " hated " for following Jesus commands ?

Those of the "flock" of the Roman Catholic church that have perhaps seen these and other news items concerning the "church", are at times shocked, realizing that this is not the Christianity that Jesus established. Being as this abuse has been hidden by the hierarchy itself, the "root" of the Catholic church, then what is to happen ? Jesus said that " Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire."(Matt 7:19) John the Baptist said to the religious leaders of his day, because of their gross disregard for God's laws, that “already the ax is lying at the root of the trees; every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire.”(Matt 3:10)

Many still believe that the Roman Catholic church is "God's church", though Jesus said, to the contrary, that the true religion would be recognized by it's " fruits ", for a " good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit".(Matt 7:18, 20) Hence, what religious organization is producing the " fine fruit " that Jesus spoke of ?

 

[fivesense]

Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He then noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization...... Today he guides us through his Catholic Church. The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15). Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.

I applaud you for your personal commitment to your beliefs. Not many are willing to stand in their convictions, especially when it comes to religious beliefs. You must have a strong sense of personal responsibilty and your character must be one which strikes admiration in those you meet. I certainly wonder what type of individual you are and the mind you have in your possesion.

Throughout the centuries, the Roman Catholic Church and it's adherents have played critical and vital roles in the shaping of our world system. While those roles have been beneficial in general, the forming of civil laws and reducing corruption for example, there have been large portions of its history marred by inconsistencies and immoralities. Like all religion that springs from the minds of man, its inherent evils can only be kept in check for so long, and then the Adversary has a field day, trading on the hypocrisy and deceit that lays hidden in the most secret of places.

If size determines validity, Bhuddism prevails as "the world religion" and Islam coming in next. Roman Catholicism is an extension of Judaism, with the teachings of Paul the Apostle interspersed to avail co-operation from its constituency. The Holy Spirit of God, recognizes no such distinction as you imply in your post. However, within the confines of the Papal suzereignty lies a portion who indeed are the elect and called of God, who do not ascribe to the errors of schism and division that are the hallmarks of Catholicism. They shall receive Life at the resurrection of the dead. The rest, however, who are mere followers of this extension of Judaism will appear at the Great White Throne and be revealed as who they really are.

If you had not been directed to this site by God, I would question your post as a solicitation or worse, an attempt at faction. However, I believe the Lord is leading you to be still and recognize God as God, and glean what you can of the most precious saints that come here to reveal what their Savior and God is doing in their lives. Please heed what I am saying to you, it is for your benefit.

It is not a comfortable place to be in, where God has called you out to be separated from the world system and its multitudinous "faiths", but sonship in God requires allegiance to the Christ, and none other will suffice to Him. The Word alone and the testimony of the Holy Scriptures is the only source to be had in salvation from death and judgment. Rely on it alone to be safe and preserved from the evil of falsehoods so prevalent in all religious denominations, Protestant or Catholic.
fivesense

 

[Selene]

Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He then noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return. Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established. The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. Any merely human organization would have collapsed long ago. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with over a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). Although some Catholics dissent from officially-taught doctrines, the Church’s official teachers—the pope and the bishops united with him—have never changed any doctrine. Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19).The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20). He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church. The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15). Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.

Thank you for posting this, Catholic Crusader. It's nice to see a brother Catholic in here. Peace be with you.

 

[Brother Mike]

Guestman:

While I do not endorse the Catholic system at all, (Though the Holy Water must be keeping the Vampire population down, as I have yet to see one.) I can't side with you on this.

A vast cache of child pornography and photos of young priests having sex " was " discovered at a Roman Catholic

Pointing out these Short comings is not a cool thing. We both know that the Catholic belief system is way off concerning the Word of God. We also see how this is caused lots of scandal and error because of it.

One thing to remember though.

1) The Catholic Church is big, so more chances of Scandal to happen by certain people.

2) Unlike some other large denominations the do endorse being gay, and holding gay preachers positions, The Catholic Church does not endorse Child molesters, they are against it. They don't endorse Gay priest.

3) The Catholic Church does not Attack other denominations...............We do that.

4) Your faithful Catholic person does love Jesus, and considers Him Lord. It's not their fault if some goof balls are out there giving the Church a bad name.

5) The Catholic Church has fought for no abortions, and feed lots of people. One Catholic ministry where I live feeds hundreds of people. So they are doing a part in this.

6) As I said, no Vampires.............. Now why did we not come up with Holy Water?????

Be nice Brother.............. Pointing out faults, is not cool. Love covers the multitude of sin.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jiggyfly]

I applaud you for your personal commitment to your beliefs. Not many are willing to stand in their convictions, especially when it comes to religious beliefs. You must have a strong sense of personal responsibilty and your character must be one which strikes admiration in those you meet. I certainly wonder what type of individual you are and the mind you have in your possesion.

Throughout the centuries, the Roman Catholic Church and it's adherents have played critical and vital roles in the shaping of our world system. While those roles have been beneficial in general, the forming of civil laws and reducing corruption for example, there have been large portions of its history marred by inconsistencies and immoralities. Like all religion that springs from the minds of man, its inherent evils can only be kept in check for so long, and then the Adversary has a field day, trading on the hypocrisy and deceit that lays hidden in the most secret of places.

If size determines validity, Bhuddism prevails as "the world religion" and Islam coming in next. Roman Catholicism is an extension of Judaism, with the teachings of Paul the Apostle interspersed to avail co-operation from its constituency. The Holy Spirit of God, recognizes no such distinction as you imply in your post. However, within the confines of the Papal suzereignty lies a portion who indeed are the elect and called of God, who do not ascribe to the errors of schism and division that are the hallmarks of Catholicism. They shall receive Life at the resurrection of the dead. The rest, however, who are mere followers of this extension of Judaism will appear at the Great White Throne and be revealed as who they really are.

If you had not been directed to this site by God, I would question your post as a solicitation or worse, an attempt at faction. However, I believe the Lord is leading you to be still and recognize God as God, and glean what you can of the most precious saints that come here to reveal what their Savior and God is doing in their lives. Please heed what I am saying to you, it is for your benefit.

It is not a comfortable place to be in, where God has called you out to be separated from the world system and its multitudinous "faiths", but sonship in God requires allegiance to the Christ, and none other will suffice to Him. The Word alone and the testimony of the Holy Scriptures is the only source to be had in salvation from death and judgment. Rely on it alone to be safe and preserved from the evil of falsehoods so prevalent in all religious denominations, Protestant or Catholic.
fivesense

Good job on your post Fivesense.

 

[gator347]

Good job on your post Fivesense.

I used to be Catholic:

It is untrue that the Catholic Church does not condemn other denominations. They Teach that they are the “First & only” true Church. They teach that to leave the “Church” is an abomination. And if you don’t think so, try being one who has left.

Many Catholics believe that Mary is a “Co-Redeemer”

You can’t get a divorce (for Biblical reasons) but you can get an annulment.

They also believe in praying to Saints (dead people) not with living believers.

It was also criminal how the “Church” covered up pedophile priests (but I don’t want to be judged what some other protestant preachers have done)

That being said:

It is my belief that Catholics who believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior and confess this publically are saved.

To the life of me, I can’t understand why they continue to carry around ALL that extra baggage?

 

[Templar81]

Catholics don't pray to saints, they pray through saints because saints are already part of the Church Triumphant and therefore closer to God than we are here on Earth. All they do is ask the saint to pray for them and their prayers have more power than ours. Saints are jsut brothers and sisters in Christ like all of us here and they are great examples of pious living. Lots of people have a favourite saint or patron, mine is James the son of Thunder.

 

[Selene]

I used to be Catholic:

It is untrue that the Catholic Church does not condemn other denominations. They Teach that they are the “First & only” true Church. They teach that to leave the “Church” is an abomination. And if you don’t think so, try being one who has left.

My brother, you may once have been a Catholic, but apparently you have not read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. While some members of the Church may have condemned other denominations, (remember...we are also sinners) this is not true of the teachings of the Church itself. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that we are bonded with the Jewish people, the Muslims, other Christians, and even non-Christians for all mankind have been created in the image of God (CCC #839-843). This has always been the teachings of the Catholic Church. There is nothing in our Catechism saying that leaving the Church is an abomination.

Many Catholics believe that Mary is a “Co-Redeemer”

First of all the Church recognizes Jesus as our only redeemer—plain and simple. When Jesus, the Second Person in the Holy Trinity, became man, He used the services of several human beings. He used prophets, the last of whom was His cousin, John the Baptist. He used St. Joseph as His foster father to protect Him and be a father to Him in his formative years. Most of all, He used Mary as His mother who gave birth to Him, nursed Him, and nurtured Him as a child. All of these people co-operated with Him and His mission of salvation. He alone was the redeemer, but they co-operated with Him in His work of redemption. In varying degrees they all could be called co-redeemers because of such co-operation. But because of her unique role and the degree of her co-operation, Mary is singled out. In all of humanity, God singled her out for a truly sublime role. Nursing Jesus (who is almighty God) at her breast is beyond our ability to fully appreciate.

You can’t get a divorce (for Biblical reasons) but you can get an annulment.

You are correct. The Church does not endorse divorce because we see marriage as a sacrament. The Church teaches couples to try to work out their problems and reconcile rather than to divorce. As for annulment, it isn't easy to get one. The only two people I know who got an annulment was 1) a person who was in an extremely abusive marriage which involved drugs and in which all reconciliation have failed and 2) when the wife found out that her husband was already married to someone else and didn't get a divorce.

They also believe in praying to Saints (dead people) not with living believers.

First of all, we do ask living believers on earth to pray for us. Secondly, we also ask living Saints in Heaven to pray for us in the same way that we ask living believers on earth. Why do you believe that the souls in Heaven are dead? Did you know that in the Bible David even addressed the angels in Heaven to bless the Lord (See Psalms 103:20)? David addressed the angels in Heaven to bless the Lord because he knew that the angels in Heaven are alive and could hear him. Do you believe that the angels in Heaven are also dead? Do you believe that anything "dead" exists in Heaven? Catholics, on the other hand, believe that death does not exist in Heaven because God is a God of the living, not of the dead. The angels in Heaven are alive and all the souls living in Heaven are also alive and have eternal life with God. The Body of Christ is not only the Christians living on earth, they also include the Christians living with God in His kingdom who now have eternal life with Him.

It was also criminal how the “Church” covered up pedophile priests (but I don’t want to be judged what some other protestant preachers have done)

Yes, some of the other Protestant preachers are guilty of what some of our Catholic priests have done. So as you already know, we are all sinners. It doesn't matter if you are Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, Buddhist, atheist, etc.

It is my belief that Catholics who believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior and confess this publically are saved.

All Catholics have confessed this already. We say it in Church all the time because we always say the Nicene Creed in every Mass. Below is part of our Nicene Creed, the part about Jesus Christ:

"We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God eternally begotten of the Fathr, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten,not made, one in Being with the Father. Through Him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from Heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man

This is said in every Catholic Mass.

To the life of me, I can’t understand why they continue to carry around ALL that extra baggage?

And what "extra baggage" would that be, my brother?

In Christ,
Selene

 

[jiggyfly]

Catholics don't pray to saints, they pray through saints because saints are already part of the Church Triumphant and therefore closer to God than we are here on Earth. All they do is ask the saint to pray for them and their prayers have more power than ours. Saints are jsut brothers and sisters in Christ like all of us here and they are great examples of pious living. Lots of people have a favourite saint or patron, mine is James the son of Thunder.

Regardless of praying "to" or "through" it puts someone in between God and the person praying. I can not find any scriptural support for praying to or through deceased believers. Do you happen to have some? Where do you find scripture that states their prayers have more power than ours? Does that mean that God listens more to them than He does to us? Does God love them more? Is it possible that your belief is based more on religious tradition than scripture?

[font="tahoma][size="2"]

In varying degrees they all could be called co-redeemers because of such co-operation.

[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[color="#5D5D5D"][font="tahoma][size="2"]Selene, this is the kind of religious thinking that leads away from the Gospel of Christ and creates silly religious tradition. The scriptures clearly and boldly declare it is Christ alone. Redemption and reconciliation comes from God through Christ's shed blood at the cross and man's co-operation or the lack of it have nothing to do with it or the outcome of it.[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[color="#5D5D5D"][font="tahoma][size="2"]Colossians 1:19&20[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"]For God in all His fullness was pleased to live in Christ,and by Him God reconciled everything to Himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of His blood on the cross.[/size][/font]

 

[Selene]

Regardless of praying "to" or "through" it puts someone in between God and the person praying. I can not find any scriptural support for praying to or through deceased believers. Do you happen to have some? Where do you find scripture that states their prayers have more power than ours? Does that mean that God listens more to them than He does to us? Does God love them more? Is it possible that your belief is based more on religious tradition than scripture?

When you ask someone on earth to pray for you, are you also not putting them between you and God? Do you believe that the souls who now share eternal life with Christ in Heaven are dead?

Selene, this is the kind of religious thinking that leads away from the Gospel of Christ and creates silly religious tradition. The scriptures clearly and boldly declare it is Christ alone. Redemption and reconciliation comes from God through Christ's shed blood at the cross and man's co-operation or the lack of it have nothing to do with it or the outcome of it.

Are you saying that God does not use human beings to carry out His will? When the sacred authors wrote the Bible, wasn't God using them to write under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit? So, when Jesus became a man, how did He come into the world incarnated as a man? Didn't He use a human being? Didn't a human being cooperated with Him to carry out His Will? And are we not called to carry out God's will?

 

[Templar81]

Nowhere in scripture does it say you ahve to follow scripture blindly but people do it. Nowhere ins cripture does it say that communion is symbolic but Evangelicals believe that. Nowhere inscripture does it say Baptisms have to be done by full emersion but many Evangelicals believe it. The thing is, that evangelicals pick and choose which bits of scripture and which bits of tradition to follow so don't pick on Sacramentals for having traditions.

Revelation 8:4
And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

When you ask a saint to pray for you, you don't put them between you and God, you add their prayer to your own. They are in the Church triaumphant, they are not truly deceased because they are alive in the body of Christ. It is like asking a friend to pray for you.

 

[Templar81]

Here's a useful link that explains things
http://www.catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp

 

[Guestman]

Guestman:

While I do not endorse the Catholic system at all, (Though the Holy Water must be keeping the Vampire population down, as I have yet to see one.) I can't side with you on this.



Pointing out these Short comings is not a cool thing. We both know that the Catholic belief system is way off concerning the Word of God. We also see how this is caused lots of scandal and error because of it.

One thing to remember though.

1) The Catholic Church is big, so more chances of Scandal to happen by certain people.

2) Unlike some other large denominations the do endorse being gay, and holding gay preachers positions, The Catholic Church does not endorse Child molesters, they are against it. They don't endorse Gay priest.

3) The Catholic Church does not Attack other denominations...............We do that.

4) Your faithful Catholic person does love Jesus, and considers Him Lord. It's not their fault if some goof balls are out there giving the Church a bad name.

5) The Catholic Church has fought for no abortions, and feed lots of people. One Catholic ministry where I live feeds hundreds of people. So they are doing a part in this.

6) As I said, no Vampires.............. Now why did we not come up with Holy Water?????

Be nice Brother.............. Pointing out faults, is not cool. Love covers the multitude of sin.

Jesus Is Lord.

Is Jesus in agreement with you, that it's not "cool" to expose the faults of those who profess to serve God ? For example, why did Jesus condemn the religious leaders in his day, telling them that "truly I say to you that the tax collectors and the harlots are going ahead of you into the kingdom of God. For John came to you in a way of righteousness, but you did not believe him. However, the tax collectors and the harlots believed him, and you, although you saw this, did not feel regret afterwards so as to believe him" ?(Matt 21:31, 32)

Or when just three days before his death at the hands of the same religious leaders, why did Jesus scathingly condemn the religious leaders for putting themselves on a "pedestal", saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses....Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites ! because you shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men; for you yourselves do not go in, neither do you permit those on their way in to go in" ?(Matt 23:2, 13)

Like the scribes and Pharisees, the Catholic Church has seated itself in the "seat of Moses", blocking entry into the "kingdom of the heavens" by teaching doctrines and traditions that have made the "word of God invalid."(Matt 15:6) Additionally, the serious issue of pedophile priests has been hidden or downplayed. In the Huffington Post of April 1, 2010, it stated that the Vatican has been aware of the evidence of pedophilia priests for decades, with even Pope Paul VI having a meeting with Gerald M.C. Fitzgerald, head of a Roman Catholic order that specialized in the treatment of pedophile priests nearly fifty years ago. This meeting was followed up with a letter recommending the removal of pedophile priests from the ministry, dated August 27, 1963. In this letter, "the head of the New Mexico-based Servants of the Holy Paraclete tells the Pope he recommends removing pedophile priests from active ministry and strongly urges defrocking repeat offenders."

Hence, the Vatican has well aware of the pedophilia problem. In fact, this problem was clearly known many years earlier, for in 1917, the Catholic Church formulated a "canon law (that) criminalized sexual abuse of minors." And in 1922, the Catholic Church "penned a document outlining detailed procedures for handling such cases. In 1962 that document was updated and has been used in many of the lawsuits by victims against U.S.diocese and the Vatican itself."

The article further said that "The letter (released in 2007 at a hearing in Los Angeles), written by the Rev. Gerald M.C. Fitzgerald, appears to have been drafted at the request of the pope and summarizes Fitzgerald's thoughts on problem priests after his Vatican visit. The letter echoes other Fitzgerald writings about wayward priests.

Several news organizations, including the AP, reported last year that Fitzgerald was intent on buying an island where priests attracted to men and boys could be segregated, and even made a $5,000 down payment on a Caribbean island for that purpose. "It is for this class of rattlesnake I have always wished an island retreat, but even an island is too good for these vipers," he wrote an acquaintance in 1957.
In 1960, he sent two priests from the Paracletes to the island of Tortola to investigate the location – but his dream of an island monastery dedicated to trouble priests ended when the new archbishop of Santa Fe overruled him, his successor, Rev. Joseph McNamara, has said in an affidavit."

It additionally says that "Fitzgerald opens the five-page letter by thanking the pope for an audience the day before and says he is summarizing his thoughts at the pope's request on the "problem of the problem priest" after 20 years working to treat them. He tells Paul VI that treatment for priests who have succumbed to "abnormal, homosexual tendencies" should include psychiatric, as well as spiritual, counseling – but goes on to warn about the dangers of leaving those individuals in ministry.

Mr. Gerald Fitzgerald wrote: "Personally, I am not sanguine (confident) of the return of priests to active duty who have been addicted to abnormal practices, especially sins with the young. Where there is indication of incorrigibility, because of the tremendous scandal given, I would most earnestly recommend total laicization ("give control of it to the lay community", Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005)," he wrote. "I say 'total' ... because when these men are taken before civil authority, the non-Catholic world definitely blames the discipline of celibacy for the perversion of these men."

The letter proves that Vatican officials knew about clergy abuse decades ago. The Sunday Telegraph of Sydney, New South Wales reported in 1994: “The Australian Catholic Church has taken out a multimillion dollar insurance policy to protect itself against claims of sexual abuse by priests,... We admit it goes on,” said a Catholic bishop in Melbourne, Australia. He asserts that such extensive insurance coverage is normal “for that kind of offence.” According to a support group for the victims, sexual abuse by the clergy is more widespread than the church admits. A spokesman for the group said he believes the church’s focus is more on protecting the clergy than helping the victims. He added that the message “at the very core of the church’s documents is, don’t tell the truth.”

Would Jesus overlook such gross disregard for the moral principles that God's Word stipulates ? Jesus set the precedent by scathingly condemning the religious leaders during his final moments before his death for their conduct. The apostle Paul wrote that "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, and tomorrow."(Heb 13:8) The nation of Israel was corrupt in the first century, during Jesus tenure of 3 1/2 years as God's "servant."(Matt 12:18) So likewise is the Catholic Church. And what has been brought forth is just the "tip of the iceberg", for over the centuries since it's inception in the fourth century C.E., the Catholic Church has piled up mountains of evidence of atrocities, even burning individuals at the stake for merely possessing a Bible.

Revelation 18:5, 7 sums up the matter, as part of worldwide empire of false religion, Babylon the Great, that the Catholic Church has "sins (that ) have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind....To the extent that she lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For in her heart she keeps saying, ' I sit a queen, and I am no widow, and I shall never see mourning."