The challenge in Christianity is not to love Jesus, it's to love Judas.

[Randy Kluth]

Thanks for the additional info on your views.
I would say your views most closely match what I would call Annihilationism.
That the "lost" will cease to exist after being destroyed.

The three main views as I understand them are;
1) Damnationism
2) Annihilationism
3) Universalism (Ultimate Redemption, Universal Reconciliation, Universal Restoration, UR)

All three views are biblical and contradictory.

/

Not at all. I disagree with Annihilationism. I believe the Lost will continue to exist for all eternity in "Outer Darkness," in a spiritually water-less place.

They will find their eternal fulfillment there without torture. Their punishment will consist of their separation, primarily, from God Himself and from His blessed Kingdom.

But it appears there will be levels of punishment, heavier and lighter, that exist either temporally or eternally--I don't know any more than this.

The "fire" I speak of is merely a means of separation from the New Earth. Where Outer Darkness is I don't know--perhaps in a place on the New Earth that is sectioned off?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Bibles that do NOT contain the word "Hell".


Scarlett's N.T. (1798)
The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823)
Young's Literal Translation (1891)
Twentieth Century New Testament (1900)
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902)
Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903)
Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903)
The New Testament, James Moffat, (1917)
Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917)
Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914)
The New Testament, Charles B. Williams, 1937
The People's New Covenant (Overbury, 1925)
Hanson's New Covenant (1884)
Western N.T. (1926)
NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958)
Concordant Literal NT (1983)
he N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938)
Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942)
New American Bible (1970)
Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976)
Tanakh, The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985)
The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980)
Christian Bible (1991)
The Scriptures (1993)
World English Bible (in progress)
Orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha [NT Only]
Original Bible Project (Dr. James Tabor, still in translation)
Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975)**
Int. NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1993)**
A Critical Paraphrase of the N.T. by Vincent T. Roth (1960)
New Testament, Recovery Version, Living Stream Ministry, 1991
New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE)
Roman Catholic Holy Bible In Its Original Order, Fred R. Coulter, 2007
Etymological N.T. (An Ultra Literal Translation, 2011, Michael Wine)
Aramaic Peshitta New Testament, 2006, Janet M. Magiera
MirrorWord N.T. (Francois du Toit) still in translation
Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, Electronic Ver. (Tentmaker Ministries)
The Source N.T. (Dr. Ann Nyland), 2004, 2007
Jonathan Mitchell N.T. (Jonathan Mitchell) 2009
The Scriptures, 2016
Tree of Life Version, Baker Bookhouse, 2016******
The New Testament (David Bentley Hart) Yale University Press, 2017

/

I don't care what word is used for the Greek word used in the Bible, as long as it is true to the meaning of the Greek word. You can call it "Hades," if you wish? Or, you may call it "Sheol." It's the place of the dead. That place will cease to be in eternity. At that time, the Saved will live on the New Earth, and in the New Jerusalem. The Lost will live in Outer Darkness, wherever that may be, separated from God's Kingdom on earth.

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus did not send his disciples out knowing many of them would be murdered to bring people to him if everyone would be saved

Another way to look at it, is that Jesus sent his disciples to rescue people from harsh judgment. (the hand and eye)
AND... that they would have abundant lief in the here and now.

Wouldn't you agree that there are benefits to a renewed relationship
with God in the here and now, not just for eternity?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

If salvation is universal. Then we might as well go live however we want, eat drink and be merry, Rape murder and plunder.. because we all will be saved anyway

There are consequences for living that way in the here and now AND in the age of restoration.

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything,
as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Everyone will be. But each in turn.
(bet you didn't see this coming)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 NIV
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father
after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

/

Those who belong to him.

Who belongs to him?

John 6: 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Those who see and believe, Again if you reject him, You are not his,

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic available. (shameless self-promotion)

Is the ability to procreate the only requirement for the "model" marriage?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Who belongs to him?

Everyone belongs to Him.

1 Corinthians 10:26 NIV
“The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”

Psalm 24:1 NIV
The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it,
the world, and all who live in it;

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Those who belong to him.

What does "But each in turn" mean in light of verse 22?

1 Corinthians 15:22-23 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn...

/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not true.
There are consequences. Like the scripture you quoted.
Better off without the hand or eye that made you sin.
And that applies to everyone. Christians aren't off the hook.

Mark 9:49 NIV
Everyone will be salted with fire.

/

The penalty of sin is death..

the gift of God is life.

One must be born again.

Jesus did not say everyone will be born again, He said the must be born again. And he told us how in John 3..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Another way to look at it, is that Jesus sent his disciples to rescue people from harsh judgment. (the hand and eye)
AND... that they would have abundant lief in the here and now.

Wouldn't you agree that there are benefits to a renewed relationship
with God in the here and now, not just for eternity?

/

I disagree, Because Jesus did not promise an abundant life or that we would not suffer persecution. In fact, he said we would suffer persecution.

Peter was crucified, Only he refused to do it as Jesus did, and demanded they hang him upside down..

But that did not pay for peters sin.. It was because the world hates God

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There are consequences for living that way in the here and now AND in the age of restoration.

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything,
as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

/

Shaking my head.. I do not get your line of thinking my friend. just being honest.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Everyone belongs to Him.

1 Corinthians 10:26 NIV
“The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”

Psalm 24:1 NIV
The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it,
the world, and all who live in it;

/

What is the gospel. what must you do to be saved?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What does "But each in turn" mean in light of verse 22?

1 Corinthians 15:22-23 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn...

/

21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

A non b eliever is the enemy of Christ. He will be delivered to christ for judgment. And cast into the lake of fire..

As jesus said,, this is a serious situation. So serious. it is better to cut off your hand if it would keep you from hellfire..

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus did not say everyone will be born again, He said the must be born again. And he told us how in John 3..

If everyone MUST be, then everyone WILL.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

That's a terrible translation. Obvious doctrinal bias.

A non b eliever is the enemy of Christ. He will be delivered to christ for judgment. And cast into the lake of fire..

Did you say "enemy"? - LOL

Jesus taught us to love our enemies. (as godly behavior) "Be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." - Matthew 5:48

Does God hold himself to a LOWER standard than he holds us to?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

What is the gospel. what must you do to be saved?

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth
and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation,
acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved.
Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
(the reason for the bodily resurrection)

/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If everyone MUST be, then everyone WILL.

/

Only if they do what Jesus said to do.

when Israel was bitten by snakes. God told moses to build a serpent and raise it up. Only those who trusted God looked and lived. the ones who rejected God did not. and died.

In the same way, The son of man must be lifted up. so whoever believes in him will not die, but has eternal life.

Youu will die if you do not believe. you are condemned, these are Jesus words. not mine

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's a terrible translation. Obvious doctrinal bias.

Or it is a correct translation. And you have doctrinal bias?

Did you say "enemy"? - LOL

Jesus taught us to love our enemies. (as godly behavior) "Be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." - Matthew 5:48

Does God hold himself to a LOWER standard than he holds us to?

/

Jesus loved his enemy, He died for us while we were yet sinners.

But if we do not receive his gift. we will suffer what we deserve.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth
and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation,
acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved.
Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
(the reason for the bodily resurrection)

/

ok, so what happens if you di. and you refused to do this. where you saved?

 

[St. SteVen]

In the same way, The son of man must be lifted up. so whoever believes in him will not die, but has eternal life.

Since He was lifted up, He will draw all men unto himself.
All men. Everyone. All of humankind.

John 12:32 KJV
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

/