The Chronological Order Of Endtime Events

[BLACK SHEEP]

I think you are missing the real meaning of the seals. They do NOT all ride together. The white horse and rider ride alone. The verse on the 4th seal, the pale horse, tells us this. The last three, the REd the Black and the Pale do ride together.

But you are missing the TIME for them to ride. These first seals were broken when Jesus ascended into heaven, 32 AD. The white horse are rider are to represent the CHURCH sent out to make disciples of all nations. The other three are the devil's feeble attempt to stop the advance of the church. They have been riding for almost 2000 years. However, they are LIMITEd in their theater of operation to 1/4 of the world - and we can be sure that 1/4 will be centered on Israel. So it would include Europe and Africa, as well as the Middle East. Where did the first and second world war begin? Of course in Europe. Where have there been famines after famines? Of course Africa. Where was the black plague that killed nearly 1/4 of the people? In Europe.

Finally, the 5th seal are the martyrs of the CHURCH age, with Stephen being one of the first. Imagine, if they were martyrs of the great tribulation, they would KNOW they have to wait only 42 months or less - but they DON'T know. So this seal too was broken as soon as Jesus ascended. We are waiting on the start of the Day of the Lord (started by the rapture of the church) which signs are seen at the 6th seal. So we are now between the 5th and 6th seal.

Lamad

Well I didn't say that they all ride together. Your interpretation is absolutely senseless.

First. It makes no sense that the first seal would be all about the church and then the other three seals be complete evil.
Second. It makes no sense to me that Christ would be opening the seals in the end-times and yet he would be prophesying about his church that he established and that happened in 32AD nearly 2000 years prior! This eschatological blunder of yours makes both John and Jesus false prophets. YOU CANNOT PROPHESY ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED!

John wrote the book around AD70 and your saying the first seal opened in AD 32....even before it was prophesied? Go back to school lamad. I have no confidence in anything you say since everything you say is nothing but fabrications and contradictions!

Nearly everything else you believe is so full of contradictions and fabrications that I don't have time to spoon feed you the truth because it'll be a complete waste of time. You wouldn't change your mind anyway!
And I can tell by your fabricated interpretations that I would rather not discuss anything with you.

You are a master fabricator and not one word of it of it to the glory of God.

 

[iamlamad]

Well I didn't say that they all ride together. Your interpretation is absolutely senseless.

First. It makes no sense that the first seal would be all about the church and then the other three seals be complete evil.
Second. It makes no sense to me that Christ would be opening the seals in the end-times and yet he would be prophesying about his church that he established and that happened in 32AD nearly 2000 years prior! This eschatological blunder of yours makes both John and Jesus false prophets. YOU CANNOT PROPHESY ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED!

John wrote the book around AD70 and your saying the first seal opened in AD 32....even before it was prophesied? Go back to school lamad. I have no confidence in anything you say since everything you say is nothing but fabrications and contradictions!

Nearly everything else you believe is so full of contradictions and fabrications that I don't have time to spoon feed you the truth because it'll be a complete waste of time. You wouldn't change your mind anyway!
And I can tell by your fabricated interpretations that I would rather not discuss anything with you.

You are a master fabricator and not one word of it of it to the glory of God.

Of course, if one does not understand the TIMING of these first seals, how can they understand what they are to represent.

Speaking of spoon feeding.....

Rev 6
8...And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death

WHO was given the SWORD?

4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. ... and there was given to him a great sword.

WHO was to cause HUNGER?

5 ... and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius

WHO was titled DEATH?

8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death,

And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

So the "THEM" here refers ONLY to the Red, the Black and the Pale horses. These three ride together.

Your interpretation is absolutely senseless.

First. It makes no sense that the first seal would be all about the church and then the other three seals be complete evil.

It makes complete sense if you understand the Author's intent. The first horse is the represent the CHURCH. WHEN was the great commission given? About 32 AD. They were told to go and make disciples of all nations.
WHO controls all nations? SATAN is the God of this world. He offered to give them to Jesus if Jesus would bow. Do you imagine Satan would just stand aside and allow the CHURCH to enter all nations and make disciples? Of course not! He would FIGHT fo prevent the advance of the church. He has fought. Many have died advancing the gospel into new nations held by principalities and powers of darkness. God, however, limited these three horses and riders to 1/4 of the earth. I am convinced Satan thought He could HOLD the church in that 1/4 and so prove God a liar and prevent the end from ever coming. So, are wars evil? OF COURSE they are, for they send people to their death, when they might have gotten born again later. Most wars are started by the devil. He LOVES for the youth to die. Famine is evil, for it too steals lives. DEATH is evil.

John wrote the book around AD70 and your saying the first seal opened in AD 32....even before it was prophesied?

You amaze me with your comments. DID YOU NEVER READ?

Rev 1
19 Write the things which you have seen [history; past events] , and the things which are [current events, present], and the things which will take place after this [future events].

It is far more Likely that John wrote in 95 AD. John was told to write past events, present events and future events. Why then would you be so shocked to find a historic event? God TOLD Him to write it. In this case, John was writing HISTORY. Many people have written history - so it should not surprise you.

It makes no sense to me that Christ would be opening the seals in the end-times and yet he would be prophesying about his church that he established and that happened in 32AD nearly 2000 years prior!

This is YOUR TWIST on scripture because you don't understand! He broke the first seals THE MOMENT HE ASCENDED into heaven (32 AD). (I guess you did not understand that verse either.) It is only in your wild theory that He will break them sometime in the future.

Now, please, try and get this? It really is simple. I KNOW you can get this, if you are only willing.

John 16
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

Rev 5:6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

stood a Lamb as though it had been slain...

Can you understand this Lamb was not there a second before? He JUST ARRIVED!

the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth

WHEN did Jesus say the Holy Spirit would be sent to earth? Jesus said, IF I DEPART. His meaning, if he departs EARTH and goes back to the FATHER. In other words, Jesus would send the Holy Spirit down the instant He ascended. The Holy Spirit was sent at this instant in time. If you back up to chapter 4, HE IS THERE in the throne room.

God wrote this to give us the TIME of the first seal. You cannot find 2000 years between these verses. Jesus took the scroll from the Father the MOMENT HE ASCENDED.

For more proof of this, note that when John first saw the Father on the throne, JESUS WAS NOT at his right hand, where Stepen saw Him and where a dozen verses tell us He should be. WHY was Jesus not at the right hand of the Father?

For yet MORE proof, note that John watched a search for one worthy to break the seals, to completion and it ended in FAILURE, which is why John wept much. WHY did it end in failure?

This is just basic exegesis of scripture. I believe a 5th grader could get this, for they would approach it with NO PRECONCEPTION, and take it for just what it says. These two chapters paint us a picture of the passing of time, from a time before Jesus rose from the dead, to a time AFTER He rose; and John got the see the very moment He ascended. This is the intent of the Author. It is to give us the TIMING of the first seals. If you don't like it, if it does not fit your theory, then you must take it up with HIM. I am only showing you the intent of the Author. If you wish to believe something else, that is up to you.

I would rather not discuss anything with you.

OF course not, for the scriptures rightly divided, show just how silly your theories are.

Lamad

 

[PeterAV]

This is the timetable that I would put together... I have 7,360 years, which seems to me like a 360 year extension of grace.

I believe that the universe is about 15 billions years old and is the result and in response to Lucifer's rebellion.

Could you show me the verses of the Bible you used to get to this fact of yours?
Or is this mere opinions?
Remember, that the Bible is the final authority, so all we declare must be first declared in the Bible.
*******
PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:

 

[rockytopva]

Could you show me the verses of the Bible you used to get to this fact of yours?
Or is this mere opinions?
Remember, that the Bible is the final authority, so all we declare must be first declared in the Bible.
*******
PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:

PeterAV... Just read the bible and do the math...

And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth: - Genesis 5:3
And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:- Genesis 5:6


135 years passed by and Adam begat Seth
105 years passed by and Seth begat Enos
90 Years passed by and Enos begat Cainan:
70 years passed by and Cainan begat Mahalaleel:
65 years passed by and Mahalaleel begat Jared
165 years passed by And Jared begat Enoch:


So Adam was 630 years old when Enoch the seventh was born. As Enoch lived 365 years we find that he was translated (365 + 630 = 995) (995 - 930 = 65) 65 years after Adams death. There is alot of math of this nature that can be done giving one a close approximation of the duration of the reign of man.

 

[iamlamad]

Yes. The "last trump" is the same timing as the 7th Trumpet and 7th Vial, and the battle of Armageddon, and the day of The LORD. It's those events of Christ's coming with His army on that last day that will officially end... the great tribulation. When Christ appears and sets foot upon the Mount of Olives per Acts 1, that will officially begin the 1st day of His "thousand years" reign on earth with His elect.

For someone that just read this book for the first time, they might at first believe you. But for the student of Revelation, He or she will immediatly know this is not true.

Paul's last trump has absolutely nothing to do with the 7th trumpet in Revelation. Paul's trumpet is GOD'S trumpet ("trump of God") while the Revelation trumpets are ANGEL trumpets - not to mention the timing is WAY off. The 7th trumpet marks the MIDPOINT of the week, not the end of the week. Notice it is in chapter 11, while Jesus coming is in chapter 19?

The day of the Lord or the Day of His wrath will begin exactly where John put it: "The day of His wrath has come." It is the last verse of chapter 6. This is a LONG way from chapter 18.

The end of "those days" of "great tribulation" comes with the first 6 vials, quite likely poured out in one hour. It will end sometime SHORT of the 42 months of authority of the Beast, For Jesus said those days will be SHORTENED. So no one really knows how long the days of GT will last.

The start of the 1000 year reign of Christ comes at the 7th trumpet at the MIDPOINT of the week, where the Kingdoms of the world are TRANSFERED to Him. As it is written, "he shall reign for ever and ever." This is where His physical reign begins.

Readers beware:

ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology in Revelation is immediately suspect and WILL be proven wrong.

So many people find an uncontrollible urge to rearrange John's book so it will fit their theories. It needs no rearranging.

Lamad

 

[Trumpeter]

Rev 1:19 "Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.

Greetings all,

This verse gives us the order of the book of Revelation, which is written chronologically, or as the events happen. One immediately recognizes the three tenses past, present, and future. Write the things which you have seen - past, chapter 1; the things which are - present, chapters 2 and 3; and the things which will take place after this. - future, chapters 4 through 22.

God bless.

 

[veteran]

For someone that just read this book for the first time, they might at first believe you. But for the student of Revelation, He or she will immediatly know this is not true.

Paul's last trump has absolutely nothing to do with the 7th trumpet in Revelation. Paul's trumpet is GOD'S trumpet ("trump of God") while the Revelation trumpets are ANGEL trumpets - not to mention the timing is WAY off. The 7th trumpet marks the MIDPOINT of the week, not the end of the week. Notice it is in chapter 11, while Jesus coming is in chapter 19?

The day of the Lord or the Day of His wrath will begin exactly where John put it: "The day of His wrath has come." It is the last verse of chapter 6. This is a LONG way from chapter 18.

The end of "those days" of "great tribulation" comes with the first 6 vials, quite likely poured out in one hour. It will end sometime SHORT of the 42 months of authority of the Beast, For Jesus said those days will be SHORTENED. So no one really knows how long the days of GT will last.

The start of the 1000 year reign of Christ comes at the 7th trumpet at the MIDPOINT of the week, where the Kingdoms of the world are TRANSFERED to Him. As it is written, "he shall reign for ever and ever." This is where His physical reign begins.

Readers beware:

ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology in Revelation is immediately suspect and WILL be proven wrong.

So many people find an uncontrollible urge to rearrange John's book so it will fit their theories. It needs no rearranging.

Lamad

You need to 'check' that another spirit that has overtaken you, because it is not allowing you to read even simple English.

Apostle's Paul's idea of the "last trump" in 1 Cor.15 means the fartherest trumpet in order. Per Rev.11, that just so happens to be the 7th Trumpet. There is no 8th trumpet, or 9th, etc.

 

[iamlamad]

You need to 'check' that another spirit that has overtaken you, because it is not allowing you to read even simple English.

Apostle's Paul's idea of the "last trump" in 1 Cor.15 means the fartherest trumpet in order. Per Rev.11, that just so happens to be the 7th Trumpet. There is no 8th trumpet, or 9th, etc.

I could say the fastest car in GM's lineup would be the Corvette. But this does not consider there are OTHER lineups OUTSIDE of GM's cars, such as Porsche, Maserati, and lamborghini.

I could say, "go get that last peach out of that basket on the table." I had prior knowledge, for just moments before I took the next to the last, leaving the last one. But this does not consider - and has NOTHING to do with the fact - there is another bushel basket of peaches on the floor in the kitchen. So DIFFERENT basket and different peaches.

Paul was speaking of the last trump of a CERTAIN SERIES of trumpets, quite likely the last long trumpet blast on the feast of trumpets. There is absolutely NO PROOF he was speaking of John's series, and there is proof he was NOT. John's trumpets are sounded by ANGELS. Paul tells us his trumpet is the TRUMP OF GOD. Paul tells us His rapture comes as the trigger for the Day of the Lord, and John shows us that happens as the first event of the 6th seal. (the raptured church was seen in heaven shortly thereafter.) John shows us the 7th trumpet in chapter 11, about 42 months after the "trump of God" had sounded way back before the 6th seal.

Finally, do you imagine that God will send angels after the 7th trumpet in Revelaton has sounded, and ROUND UP and collect every trumpet in heaven and on earth so that no more trumpets can EVER be sounded? That is the ONLY way that the 7th trumpet will be the last trumpet ever: destroy all trumpets and never allow another to be made. John was speaking of a certain SERIES of trumpet blasts, and shows us every one of the series. Paul was speaking of a DIFFERENT series, blown at a different time and place: different trumpets, different blowers of trumpets, different owners of trumpets and different TIMING of trumpets.

Lamad

Rev 1:19 "Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.

Greetings all,

This verse gives us the order of the book of Revelation, which is written chronologically, or as the events happen. One immediately recognizes the three tenses past, present, and future. Write the things which you have seen - past, chapter 1; the things which are - present, chapters 2 and 3; and the things which will take place after this. - future, chapters 4 through 22.

God bless.

This sounds good in theory, but it is not truth. For example, the first five verses of chapter 12 are about the time of Christ's BIRTH, around 2 or 3 BC by our calendar today. So clearly writing of past events in a chapter of future events. It is the same in the vision of the throne room in chapters 4 & 5. John saw a vision of the PAST, looking into the throne room before Jesus rose from the dead.

But you are right, John was told to right of past events, present events and future events. And He does all three.

Lamad

 

[veteran]

Paul was speaking of the last trump of a CERTAIN SERIES of trumpets, quite likely the last long trumpet blast on the feast of trumpets. There is absolutely NO PROOF he was speaking of John's series, and there is proof he was NOT. John's trumpets are sounded by ANGELS. Paul tells us his trumpet is the TRUMP OF GOD. Paul tells us His rapture comes as the trigger for the Day of the Lord, and John shows us that happens as the first event of the 6th seal. (the raptured church was seen in heaven shortly thereafter.) John shows us the 7th trumpet in chapter 11, about 42 months after the "trump of God" had sounded way back before the 6th seal.

No, Apostle Paul was speaking of a SPECIFIC TRUMPET, the final one to sound at the time of the events of the day of The LORD.


1Thes 4:16
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(KJV)


1 Cor 15:52
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(KJV)


No matter how much you try, you CANNOT separate the event Paul described WITH that trumpet, i.e., the resurrection on the day of Christ's coming.


That is the SAME trumpet spoken of here...


Rev 10:5-7
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
(KJV)

Rev 11:15
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
(KJV)

 

[Trumpeter]

No, Apostle Paul was speaking of a SPECIFIC TRUMPET, the final one to sound at the time of the events of the day of The LORD.


1Thes 4:16
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(KJV)


1 Cor 15:52
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(KJV)


No matter how much you try, you CANNOT separate the event Paul described WITH that trumpet, i.e., the resurrection on the day of Christ's coming.


That is the SAME trumpet spoken of here...


Rev 10:5-7
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
(KJV)

Rev 11:15
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
(KJV)

Greetings veteran,

If you knew anything about The Lord's Feast of Trumpets then you would realize that the last trump mentioned in 1 Cor 15:52 is the last one blown on this Feast.

The Feast of Trumpets or Rosh Hashanah is celebrated on the first day of the Hebrew month of Tishri (September or October).

The Jewish calendar is based on the lunar cycle, so it is marked by the sighting of the new moon which had to be confirmed by at least 2 witnesses.

This is why it says:

Mat 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

This feast is never started on the same day or hour but is determined by when the new moon is spotted.




DETERMINING THE START OF THE FEAST OF TRUMPETS

The following quote is taken from:

The Temple: Its Ministry and Services
Alfred Edersheim
Chapter 10
Festive Cycles and Arrangement of the Calendar

"The New Moon

"And this brings up yet another difficulty. The Jews calculated the month according to the phases of the moon, each month consisting of either twenty-nine or thirty days, and beginning with the appearance of the new moon. But this opened a fresh field of uncertainty. It is quite true that every one might observe for himself the appearance of a new moon. But this would again partly depend on the state of the weather. Besides, it left an authoritative declaration of the commencement of a month unsupplied. And yet not only was the first of every month to be observed as 'New Moon's Day,' but the feasts took place on the 10th, 15th, or other day of the month, which could not be accurately determined without a certain knowledge of its beginning. To supply this want the Sanhedrim sat in the 'Hall of Polished Stones' to receive the testimony of credible witnesses that they had seen the new moon. To encourage as many as possible to come forward on so important a testimony, these witnesses were handsomely entertained at the public expense. If the new moon had appeared at the commencement of the 30th day--which would correspond to our evening of the 29th, as the Jews reckoned the day from evening to evening--the Sanhedrim declared the previous month to have been one of twenty-nine days, or 'imperfect.' Immediately thereon men were sent to a signal-station on the Mount of Olives, where beacon-fires were lit and torches waved, till a kindling flame on a hill in the distance indicated that the signal had been perceived. Thus the tidings, that this was the new moon, would be carried from hill to hill, far beyond the boundaries of Palestine, to those of the dispersion, 'beyond the river.' Again, if credible witnesses had not appeared to testify to the appearance of the new moon on the evening of the 29th, the next evening, or that of the 30th, according to our reckoning, was taken as the commencement of the new month, in which case the previous month was declared to have been one of thirty days, or 'full.' It was ruled that a year should neither have less than four nor more than eight such full months of thirty days" http://philologos.org/__eb-ttms/temple10.htm#moon.

The Jews did not know whether the Feast of Tishri would start on the 30th of Elul or actually Tishri 1. It would begin on one of these two days. They also did not know at what hour the Feast of Trumpets would begin on whichever day it started. The words of Jesus thus fit well into the determining of the New Moon for the start Of Tishri 1, i.e., the Feast of Trumpets. This was extremely important because determining the right date would mean that the Ten Days of Awe and the Day of Atonement would also be celebrated on the proper day, and these were the High Holidays of Judaism: The Feast of Trumpets (Tishri 1), Day of Atonement (Toshri 10) and the Feast of Tabernacles (Tishri 15-22). Thus, Jesus may very well have been speaking of this situation when He said,

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of THAT DAY AND HOUR knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

[veteran]

Greetings veteran,

If you knew anything about The Lord's Feast of Trumpets then you would realize that the last trump mentioned in 1 Cor 15:52 is the last one blown on this Feast.

The Feast of Trumpets or Rosh Hashanah is celebrated on the first day of the Hebrew month of Tishri (September or October).

The Jewish calendar is based on the lunar cycle, so it is marked by the sighting of the new moon which had to be confirmed by at least 2 witnesses.

This is why it says:

Mat 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

This feast is never started on the same day or hour but is determined by when the new moon is spotted.

That's a double post.

I already answered that, that the trumpets for the end are signals for WAR. They are war trumpets, NOT feast trumpets. No feast tradition was used in Revelation, except God's feast upon His enemies per Rev.19.

Moreover, IF the 7 trumpets of Revelation were about God's ordained Feast of Trumpets for Israel, then it would not be about God's judgments upon the earth.

Many scholars believe that Christ will return at the time in the fall for the Feast of Trumpets, which is actually more plausible then, since it's more fitting with the seventh month feast or supper that Christ's elect are to sit down and eat with Him, that being after Harvest.

 

[BLACK SHEEP]

That's a double post.

I already answered that, that the trumpets for the end are signals for WAR. They are war trumpets, NOT feast trumpets. No feast tradition was used in Revelation, except God's feast upon His enemies per Rev.19.

Moreover, IF the 7 trumpets of Revelation were about God's ordained Feast of Trumpets for Israel, then it would not be about God's judgments upon the earth.

Many scholars believe that Christ will return at the time in the fall for the Feast of Trumpets, which is actually more plausible then, since it's more fitting with the seventh month feast or supper that Christ's elect are to sit down and eat with Him, that being after Harvest.

Not only that. The last and seventh trumpet is sounded by angels. All the trumpets in Israel's feast of the trumpets are sounded by men!

But that doesn't matter to pre-tribbers. They're going to believe what they want to believe regardless of the scriptural evidence or how fabricated their interpretation it is.

Also the word last in 1Cor. 15:52 is the word eschatos. It means...

1) extreme
a) last in time or in place
last in a series of places
c) last in a temporal succession
2) the last
a) last, referring to time
of space, the uttermost part, the end, of the earth
c) of rank, grade of worth, last i.e. lowest

It's the same word used here in Revelation 1:11, 1:17 and 22:13.

Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:

And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

If pretribbers don't think this word eschatos means the very last, all I have to say is get a hermeneutic and go back to school!

 

[Trumpeter]

That's a double post.

I already answered that, that the trumpets for the end are signals for WAR. They are war trumpets, NOT feast trumpets. No feast tradition was used in Revelation, except God's feast upon His enemies per Rev.19.

Moreover, IF the 7 trumpets of Revelation were about God's ordained Feast of Trumpets for Israel, then it would not be about God's judgments upon the earth.

Many scholars believe that Christ will return at the time in the fall for the Feast of Trumpets, which is actually more plausible then, since it's more fitting with the seventh month feast or supper that Christ's elect are to sit down and eat with Him, that being after Harvest.

Maybe you could share with us exactly where I mentioned any trumpets in Revelation?


Trumpeter, on 20 Jul 2013 - 3:51 PM, said:

Greetings veteran,

If you knew anything about The Lord's Feast of Trumpets then you would realize that the last trump mentioned in 1 Cor 15:52 is the last one blown on this Feast.

The Feast of Trumpets or Rosh Hashanah is celebrated on the first day of the Hebrew month of Tishri (September or October).

The Jewish calendar is based on the lunar cycle, so it is marked by the sighting of the new moon which had to be confirmed by at least 2 witnesses.

This is why it says:

Mat 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

This feast is never started on the same day or hour but is determined by when the new moon is spotted.

You need to learn a little more about The Lord's Feasts.

The feast of Trumpets is the 1st fall feast and this space in time from the Feast of Pentecost in the spring seems to represent the Church age, since the trumpet undoubtedly represents the Rapture of the Church. The trumpet was the signal for the workers in the field to come into the Temple and the high priest blew the trumpet so the faithful would stop the harvest to worship. So when the trumpet sounds in 1 Cor 15:51-53 believers will stop their harvest and rise from the earth and the Church will be taken out of this world.

The Day of Atonement is the one feast that is NOT fulfilled by the Church, because the Church owes no atonement. The Church is not innocent, of course, but it is exonerated because of Christ's finished work on the cross. The Day of Atonement WILL be fulfilled at Christ's 2nd coming.

God bless.

 

[veteran]

Maybe you could share with us exactly where I mentioned any trumpets in Revelation?


Trumpeter, on 20 Jul 2013 - 3:51 PM, said:
You need to learn a little more about The Lord's Feasts.

Not really, because per The New Covenant we are not subject to holding to those feasts today! Guess your rabbi forgot to teach you about Christ having fulfilled the handwriting of ordinances upon His cross.

We don't need animal sacrifices anymore, nor another man-made temple in Jerusalem either.

And Christ's Wife, the Bride, per Rev.21, is... JERUSALEM.

 

[Trumpeter]

Not really, because per The New Covenant we are not subject to holding to those feasts today! Guess your rabbi forgot to teach you about Christ having fulfilled the handwriting of ordinances upon His cross.

We don't need animal sacrifices anymore, nor another man-made temple in Jerusalem either.

And Christ's Wife, the Bride, per Rev.21, is... JERUSALEM.

Greetings veteran,

These "feasts" aren't food parties, they are God's mow'ed or appointed times/signs. And "keeping or not keeping" these feasts has nothing to do with your salvation.


1) appointed place, appointed time, meeting
a) appointed time
1) appointed time (general)
2) sacred season, set feast, appointed season
b) appointed meeting
c) appointed place
d) appointed sign or signal

They are shadows of what is to come.


Col 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

And as such, it's very important that we understand their meanings.


1Th 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

1Th 5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

Why is this? Because we are to KNOW His appointed times/signs and are commanded to watch for them.

1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others [do], but let us watch and be sober.

1Th 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,


My rabbi is YahuShua HaMashiach and He being God teaches me all I need to know.

We don't need animal sacrifices anymore, nor another man-made temple in Jerusalem either.

That's right, we don't need either, but the Jews don't know that and they will rebuild their temple.

God bless.

 

[PeterAV]

Trumpeter, you did not get your doctrine only from the bible, but have been indoctrinated.
Now, what will you do when only the Bible shows only a post tribulation resurrection/rapture out of Jesus' own mouth?
Matthew twenty-four, verse twenty-nine.[can't stand the fake NIV pop ups.]
*******
So please tell us where the last trump of the feast has the heavens withdrawing their light as Jesus stated?
It just ain't in there. You are merely fabricating doctrine out of your own understanding instead of only God's word.
*******
PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:

PeterAV... Just read the bible and do the math...

And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth: - Genesis 5:3
And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:- Genesis 5:6


135 years passed by and Adam begat Seth
105 years passed by and Seth begat Enos
90 Years passed by and Enos begat Cainan:
70 years passed by and Cainan begat Mahalaleel:
65 years passed by and Mahalaleel begat Jared
165 years passed by And Jared begat Enoch:


So Adam was 630 years old when Enoch the seventh was born. As Enoch lived 365 years we find that he was translated (365 + 630 = 995) (995 - 930 = 65) 65 years after Adams death. There is alot of math of this nature that can be done giving one a close approximation of the duration of the reign of man.

O, but I have read the Bible at least fifty times and memorized thousands of scriptures and all I come up with is about 6,000 years in total.

 

[Trumpeter]

Trumpeter, you did not get your doctrine only from the bible, but have been indoctrinated.
Now, what will you do when only the Bible shows only a post tribulation resurrection/rapture out of Jesus' own mouth?
Matthew twenty-four, verse twenty-nine.[can't stand the fake NIV pop ups.]
*******
So please tell us where the last trump of the feast has the heavens withdrawing their light as Jesus stated?
It just ain't in there. You are merely fabricating doctrine out of your own understanding instead of only God's word.
*******
PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:

Greetings Peter,

I'm not a fan of the NIV either.

This verse says nothing about a post tribulation resurrection/rapture, although the next verse does describe His triumphant return to the earth with His saints as confirmed by Jude.


Mat 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Mat 24:30 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Jud 1:14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,

You are confusing The Lord's 2nd coming with the Rapture.

The last trump blown on the Feast of Trumpets has absolutely nothing to do with any of the other trumpets being blown in Revelation nor with the heavens withdrawing their light.

These are 2 separate events.

The 1st is signless, the 2nd has all the signs you mentioned.

God bless.

 

[veteran]

Greetings veteran,

These "feasts" aren't food parties, they are God's mow'ed or appointed times/signs. And "keeping or not keeping" these feasts has nothing to do with your salvation.


1) appointed place, appointed time, meeting
a) appointed time
1) appointed time (general)
2) sacred season, set feast, appointed season
B) appointed meeting
c) appointed place
d) appointed sign or signal

They are shadows of what is to come.


Col 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

And as such, it's very important that we understand their meanings.


1Th 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

1Th 5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

Why is this? Because we are to KNOW His appointed times/signs and are commanded to watch for them.

1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others [do], but let us watch and be sober.

1Th 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,


My rabbi is YahuShua HaMashiach and He being God teaches me all I need to know.




That's right, we don't need either, but the Jews don't know that and they will rebuild their temple.

God bless.

Yes, they are... a 'shadow' of what's to come in God's future Kingdom upon this earth.

But Christ having fulfilled them upon His cross for us DURING this present time reveals an important idea which its dirty head is raising on this Forum, the Jewish brethren who have been trained in the false Tabernacle Studies mysticism, with using those things to try and understand the end time events, when our Lord Jesus and His Apostles made the endtime events very simple with easy to understand words of warning.

 

[PeterAV]

Trumpeter states:

You are confusing The Lord's 2nd coming with the Rapture.

Sorry, but the Bible clearly shows his coming is with the resurrection/rapture several times.
1 Thessalonians four verses sixteen to eighteen is but one example.
For the LORD himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD in Christ shall rise FIRST.

THEN we which are ALIVE and remain shall be caught up TOGETHER WITH them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the LORD.
*******
I just showed you a verse of Christ's coming, and the rapture and resurrection BOTH happen right HERE!
There are more as well.
There is no verse that confirms your fib of a pre-trib rapture without the resurrection and Jesus coming and the LOUD trumpet and the LOUD shout and EVERY eye shall see him etc., etc., etc.
The pre-tribulational rapture without the resurrection is 100% fabrication of men's opinions.
EVERY time the rapture is alluded to, it is ALWAYS WITH his appearing and the resurrection, ALWAYS!
Be a Berean and prove all things!
*******
PeterAV
Every word of God is pure: