The church at a crossroads....

[Gideons300]

The wolves . . . who want us to rely on ourselves, and would rob from us the promises of God.

He who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus.

In these simple words, we can see, that if you have been born again, you will remain born again. It is God who is working in you, making you who you will be. And this work WILL continue throughout our lives.

No matter what the wolves say, we can know these things are true.

Much love!

Brother, God has promised...

... that our shield of faith will quench all the fiery arrows of the enemy.

... that He would not allow us to be tempted above our ability to withstand it.

.... that He would make a way of escape in each and every temptation.

... that sin shall not have dominion over us.

...that we have been delivered from the power of darkness.

... that we can resist satan steadfast in the faith and satan will flee from us.

... that He will cause us... cause us.... to obey Him.

And you are absolutely correct, the wolves among us do not want us to believe His promises.

If we find in our walks that these promises are not coming to pass, and we look around and they are not coming to pass for others as well, should this not raise red flags in our hearts??

I have said before but it is worth re-stating, if we find ourself trapped in Romans 7, deeply desiring to cease from sin, longing to bear fruits that bring glory to our Father, yet finding it impossible, God will move mountains in these last days to see to it that the solution finds us.

However, if that is not the case, if we are found content to still be found sinning, if we admit freely we do not love God with all that is within us, or our brother as ourself, if we willfully do things we know God has said to flee, and in this place we are quite content to remain, counting on grace to sweep it all under a rug as if it is 'no biggie', we are deceived and the danger is great.

It is one thing to be found living in Romans 7 and hating it as Paul did, but it is quite another to have no desire to find the victory of which Christ assured us. I am not a gambling man, but we are basing our conclusion that we are totally safe because of grace, despite knowing our hearts are not right before Him, and are willing to risk our eternal reward that we are right, that is a bet only a fool would make.

The skies are darkening and God will, if needs be, shake every sleeping saint out of that devil-inspired complacency due to unbelief, and the shakings will not relent until our knee is fully bowed and we seek to please Him alone and not ourselves. But how much more pleasing it is to our Heavenly Father for us to acknowledge our state willingly and to, like Paul, cry out for upright hearts that long to be filled with the fruits that are guaranteed to come from Christ abiding in us.

Again, as the OP stated, the choice before us is us.... or Him in us. There is no option number three. May we all choose wisely.

blessings,

Gideon

 

[marks]

I have said before but it is worth re-stating, if we find ourself trapped in Romans 7, deeply desiring to cease from sin, longing to bear fruits that bring glory to our Father, yet finding it impossible,

What does it mean, trapped in Romans 7, since this describes the state of the born again? Finding it impossible? If you find it impossible to not sin, wait . . . you said, cease from sin. Is that what you mean?

To live the rest of your life without sinning?

Much love!

 

[marks]

but it is quite another to have no desire to find the victory of which Christ assured us.

Is this meant to describe someone who is born again?

Much love!

 

[marks]

but we are basing our conclusion that we are totally safe because of grace,

Do you think you can add to God's grace????? And that's not a gamble?

That you can do something on top of what Jesus did for you that will render you more accepted by God?

Is this what you mean?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Again, as the OP stated, the choice before us is us.... or Him in us. There is no option number three. May we all choose wisely.

but we are basing our conclusion that we are totally safe because of grace,

Either what we do, or what He did. No third choice.

Much love!

 

[Gideons300]

What does it mean, trapped in Romans 7, since this describes the state of the born again? Finding it impossible? If you find it impossible to not sin, wait . . . you said, cease from sin. Is that what you mean?

To live the rest of your life without sinning?

Much love!

This is the question before us.

Can Jesus keep us from sinning? Not us keep ourselves from sinning. Can Jesus keep us from it?

I sincerely and humbly ask you. Re-read the promises I listed before you answer. Yes, thank God, IF we sin, we can ask forgiveness, but can we be kept from falling by the power of God dwelling within us?

How can we please the Lord and continue to willfully sin, grabbing onto the promises of God we think assure us all is well regardless of the state of our heart, but eschewing those that we think too confining ? Is this not counting the blood of the covenant, by which we were sanctified, an unholy thing, and dragging God's name through the mud?

blessings,

Gids

 

[marks]

This is the question before us.

Actually, my question is asking you for clarification on what you are saying here. Are you talking about ceasing from sin for the remainder of your life?

Much love!

 

[marks]

How can we please the Lord and continue to willfully sin,

All sin is willful. Or don't you think so?

Much love!

 

[marks]

How can we please the Lord and continue to willfully sin, grabbing onto the promises of God we think assure us all is well regardless of the state of our heart, but eschewing those that we think too confining ? Is this not counting the blood of the covenant, by which we were sanctified, an unholy thing, and dragging God's name through the mud?

blessings,

Gids

Hebrews 10:26-29
26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

No . . . that's not what it means.

You can't return to the temple thinking you can offer another goat or something, as if Jesus' blood were no better for our propitiation than that of a barnyard animal. As if Jesus' blood were no more holy than bovine blood.

Much love!

 

[Gideons300]

I pray readers do not see my posts as exhorting saints to try harder or to be better Christians. Just the opposite.

I am exhorting any who will listen to take God's promises to heart, and if they are not coming to pass in our lives, to cry out to their Heavenly Father to lift us up to the point we can indeed walk in victory over the world, the flesh and the devil.

It is our old nature that wants to make excuses for the hardness of our hearts. That mindset is what we must come to hate, and when we do, praise God, He will anoint our eyes with eyes salve so that we can see clearly how powerful His grace really is.

blessings,

Gids

 

[Gideons300]

Hebrews 10:26-29
26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

No . . . that's not what it means.

You can't return to the temple thinking you can offer another goat or something, as if Jesus' blood were no better for our propitiation than that of a barnyard animal. As if Jesus' blood were no more holy than bovine blood.

Much love!

And therein lies the great gamble, that what scripture plainly tells us somehow does not mean that at all. I pray none make that bet.

Gids

 

[Ezra]

I have been sharing for the last several years that we as His own, each one of us individually, would be entering the valley of decision. A choice will be presented to us. And what exactly is that choice?

Us, or Him in us.

You see, we have been bought with a price. We are not our own. We are His possession. Yet, ever since the last drops of Heaven's early rain fell after the death of Paul, wolves that have crept into our midst have brought with them the mindset that we can be redeemed and still be our own boss. Well, the wolves are wrong.

The Bible is clear.

"Therefore I urge you, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

Romans 12:1-2


We are told by Paul in Romans 12:1 that God's will for us.... no, more than that.... His expectation for us is that we present our bodies as a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto Him and that God sees that as our reasonable service. This standard is not for the 'spiritual' ones, or for pastors only. It is for everyone. It is for me. It is for you.

He counsels us to not be conformed to this world, but rather to be transformed by the Spirit within us into the image of His Son. And yet, if we are honest, most of us will admit we are failing to live up to that expectation. The question on our lips must be 'Why"

Why was this such a common mindset in the early church and yet is now seen as not only optional but actually as radical and more than that, really impossible for us today? Why do we read that and think it is legalism? Why? The wolves have done a good job.

But guys, there is an answer and at the crossroads we now find ourselves in, with everything being shaken in our lives, God is using those shakings to awaken us to the answer we so desperately need.

But something must first happen. We must escape the mentality that we have need of nothing, that somehow, God sees us as perfect, so why sweat it? Bottom line, we must come to the point we HATE our self life. HATE our willful sin. HATE our lack of fruit. Nothing else will do.

More shakings are coming. Like birth pangs, they will increase in intensity. Their purpose is not to destroy us, but rather, to shake us awake to who we are. Spiritual armor has been given to us that allows us to weather the most ferocious temptations satan can throw at us and do it with joy. But spiritual armor does us no good until we put it on.

God wants to make us overcomers, victorious over the world, the flesh and the devil. But that will not happen until we refuse to remain content to live out our lives as OUR lives, forgiven but defeated, healed but only slightly.

Romans 7 is not our birthright. But until we long to be delivered from sin and self-love, even as Paul did, we will continue to be shaken until we awake to what God has for us... new natures.

Oh, we have them, but they must be put on. And therein lies the problem. We cannot put them on til we put off our old ones, and that cannot happen until we hate failing our God with our double mindedness, our carnality, our secret sins and our worldliness.

Our God is awakening His own and will pour out His Spirit upon us. The latter rain approaches. Our God will not leave us tossed to and fro as the earth enters its death spiral. As He has promised, God is going to do a work in our day that if our eyes did not see it, we would not believe it.

But first, we must hunger for it. Desperation is the soil where the seeds of faith will germinate. So.... how desperate are we?

blessings,

Gideon

my 2cents is the church the body of christ what it use to be? by far flesh has took over. what use to be Holy Spirit filled anointing . now it is education /degrees try getting a big church to pastor with out a degree .not going to happen .see peter wrote for His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the "true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence."

hosea wrote my people are destroyed for the lack of knowledge not because there is none. but we have rejected it. so we have what we need so what are we going to do? sit back do nothing ? no we need to rise up allow God to do something.

 

[Gideons300]

All sin is willful. Or don't you think so?

Much love!

Two people get addicted to drugs. One has no desire to stop, and encourages others into the same addiction. The other battles and battles, hating the sin that has grabbed him, longing for someone to deliver him from the power of the drug that will not let him go.

One is willful, with no repentance. One is against their will, with a heart that cries out for freedom.

blessings,

Gideon

 

[marks]

And therein lies the great gamble, that what scripture plainly tells us somehow does not mean that at all. I pray none make that bet.

Gids

So then you are saying that you've what, ceased from sin?

You say Jesus will forgive your sins, but, when you claim this passage teaches that the redeemed don't sin, then what sins will Jesus forgive?

If this passage is teaching that any sin committed after you've been redeemed has no remedy, then what in the world are you talking about, it being forgiven?

These thoughts seem quite at odds with each other, at least to me!

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

So then you are saying that you've what, ceased from sin?

You say Jesus will forgive your sins, but, when you claim this passage teaches that the redeemed don't sin, then what sins will Jesus forgive?

If this passage is teaching that any sin committed after you've been redeemed has no remedy, then what in the world are you talking about, it being forgiven?

These thoughts seem quite at odds with each other, at least to me!

Much love!

allow me to ask you this Marks, do you love to sin?...or perhaps I should ask, do you have a desire for righteousness at a heart level?

 

[marks]

Two people get addicted to drugs. One has no desire to stop, and encourages others into the same addiction. The other battles and battles, hating the sin that has grabbed him, longing for someone to deliver him from the power of the drug that will not let him go.

One is willful, with no repentance. One is against their will, with a heart that cries out for freedom.

blessings,

Gideon

Someone takes drugs. Does not God give the power to not, if He wants you to not? So then, aren't you making a choice to proceed with your sin? Someone is putting their hand to their mouth to swallow a pill. Are you saying that you aren't the one moving your arm?

What really confuses me about the things you write is that you talk about the born again, and those who are not, as if they aren't any different.

No one sins against their will, who is born again. Maybe you find yourself fighting against powerful forces, such as in the case of addictions. But seriously . . . doesn't God give freedom?

It's true . . . the unredeemed have no power against sin, none. But the redeemed, that's a different story.

As you point out . . . God gives power over sin. So if we commit sin, we've chosen to not receive the benefit of that power.

Much love!

 

[Gideons300]

So then you are saying that you've what, ceased from sin?

You say Jesus will forgive your sins, but, when you claim this passage teaches that the redeemed don't sin, then what sins will Jesus forgive?

If this passage is teaching that any sin committed after you've been redeemed has no remedy, then what in the world are you talking about, it being forgiven?

These thoughts seem quite at odds with each other, at least to me!

Much love!

I am no better than any here, nor more spiritual. But with that said, I would be remiss if I did not testify that as I have trusted Him to keep me from falling, standing fast in the faith that the old "me" is no longer who I am, He has been faithful to keep that which I have committed unto Him.

This place of walking in victory in our new nature is not something we "earn". Nor is it something we deserve. It is not an attainment at all. In fact, it is when we come to Him with NO strength and with broken hungry hearts, hearts that look away from our weakness and totally to His strength that we discover there really is a land of promise where we are kept by the power of God through faith.

The real question is, can we admit that we need such a place? Do we even want such a place?

blessings,

Gideon

 

[marks]

allow me to ask you this Marks, do you love to sin?...or perhaps I should ask, do you have a desire for righteousness at a heart level?

Love to sin? No.

Desire for righteousness? Yes.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But with that said, I would be remiss if I did not testify that as I have trusted Him to keep me from falling, standing fast in the faith that the old "me" is no longer who I am, He has been faithful to keep that which I have committed unto Him.

Humor me please. Are you then saying you have ceased from all sinning?

Much love!

 

[marks]

In fact, it is when we come to Him with NO strength and with broken hungry hearts,

I think this is the beginning. It's when we come to realize the completeness of our forgiveness that we feel the freedom to actually trust Him with everything else.

First thing to get established in our hearts is the completeness of Christ's work on the cross.

Much love!