The Church decided the canon. How do you know you have the correct canon?

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God does not contradict. The commands He gave are valid. And it is not kill, but commit murder. And going to war was not violating the command.
It was commanded for His people to cut the people of Jericho in pieces with the sword. Even the king, cut off his head.
God can destroy any and all people He chooses- He is God, you are not.
Absolutely. Agreed. Yet God's instructions was to not keep the Sabbath, march around Jericho 7 days. To kill innocent people, especially children and babies. Then later God said to steal, take what wasn't theirs from Ai and other cities.

Yes God flooded the earth by flooding it, killing all but 8 humans.
And if you do nhot believe the bible is the infallible Word of God and God inspired the men to compile the 46 OT and 27 NT books as HIs final authority for man to live and get to know HIm properly then you are condemened to live this kind of life:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

YOu will be tossed to and fro and carried about. You have no ultimate authority other than your own opinion. And for a person to have that as their final authority is a fools game that always ends dangerously.

I write this not to insult or condemn but to plead with you to allow God to show you the bible is absolute.
This comment of yours and many others is my growing concern. So many who claim to be filled and led by God's Spirit won't even acknowledge Him.

He is the One Who leads us into all truth. He gives us the mind of Christ. He gives us discernment so we can know what's God's words and what's not.

Why will people live in fear of the enemy and overestimate their ability to deceive those in whom the discerning Spirit lives.

We know our Shepherd's voice. We therefore know if a voice we hear is not His.

I am going to encourage people to get to know the Person Who lives in them more and more. He is knowable. He loves us and is committed to changing us to become more like Him in character.

Explore this amazing relationship that's available to all who have received Him. The Holy Soirit deserves our praise and worship.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Protestants have 66 books, we have 76 in Orthodoxy. A lot of times people say God decided the canon of the Bible and while we can all agree, it is still avoiding the question as to when and how God did it. Famous Protestant scholars F.F. Bruce and Lee McDonald show in their books on the formation of the canon that there was no fixed OT canon and that the early church fathers had differing canons, many of which included the apocrypha.

A common answer Protestants give when asked about how they know the correct canon is citing the book of John where it says we are guided by the Holy Spirit. However, this is presupposing that the book of John belongs in the canon when in fact the question is prior or a priori to Scripture. We cannot go to the scriptures to tell us what the correct canon is when the canon itself is what’s in question along with the book of John.

If the Church truly went rogue as the reformers claimed, then wouldn’t it be conceivable for all of us come to up with our own canon on that basis? If I said the Bible is just the first four books of the New Testament, who would anyone be to tell me I’m wrong?

It only makes sense that there is a historical Church because Christ himself lived in history. Christianity and the Bible cannot be divorced from its history.
Does it really matter?
What matters is this:
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Eph. 2:8-10


Imagine being in Rome in 70 A.D and all you have is Paul's letter to the Romans ( 1 book). You believe it, you're saved, then you are persecuted by Nero and die. Were any of the other books necessary for the salvation of those Christians during that time? No. Even a portion of the words of Christ spoken during one sermon were enough for some.
The Mormons have additional books they believe are from God. Their saving grace is that they read the Bible. Did salvation come from the other books? Unbeknownst to them, no. If they are saved, God got his message to them, they believe in Christ (although a Christ that made supposedly made additional travels to the Americas). We don't believe thaymt, but they do.
People value books that just don't matter. Some believe in aliens from other worlds, while believing in Christ. Does that void their faith? Some believe in a theistic evolution that combines Genesis with evolution. Does that void their faith in Christ?
If someone prays to a dead Saint or Mary and asks them for something, intercession or whatever, are their prayers answered? I think not, but they do.
Jesus told us how to pray - to our Father. And we use that prayer as a template. So Catholics ( mostly) pray to our Father and their prayers are answered and the others ( to Protestants are void) but to them, are of value, significant, maybe even answered.
In the end, what matters is that God got His message to us, as much of it in it's entirety that was necessary for us to be saved.
We have thousands of books that we read, value, acquire wisdom and truth from about life. So what. My mother actually believed in Astology, Reincarnation, aliens from other planets, a hollow earth, crystal power ... wow she was out there. But I chipped away at all those false beliefs for 30 years and close to her death, I just about gave up hope. But two days before her death, she was singing about Jesus, believing that He had always been there for her, had His hand on her shoulder. Go figure. She had a negative view of Christianity all her life and was a rebel at heart, partly due to a few negative experiences in a Catholic orphanage as a child for five years. Oh we heard the stories of how mean the Nuns were, slapping her hand for being naughty, not allowing her to see her younger brother ... I used to tell her, "They didn't slap you enough". She'd laugh. But I also said, "They cared for you, loved you whether you realize it or not". But some things stuck with her, scriptures she held onto, principles she lived by and passed down to us.
God never abandoned her, was guiding her through all that junk in her life. In the end, the junk was sifted out and discarded and He opened up her eyes and revealed Himself. A miracle. I was floored ... Amazing Grace, how sweet it is.
 
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Does it really matter?
What matters is this:
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Eph. 2:8-10


Imagine being in Rome in 70 A.D and all you have is Paul's letter to the Romans ( 1 book). You believe it, your saved, then you are persecuted by Nero and die. We're any of the other books necessary for the salvation of those Christians during that time? No. Even a portion of the words of Christ spoken during one sermon were enough for some.
The Mormons have additional books the believe are from God. Their saving grace is that the read the Bible. Did salvation come from the other books? Unbeknownst to them, no. If they are saved, God got his message to them, they believe in Christ (a Christ that made additional travels to the Americas).
People value books that just don't matter. Some believe in aliens from other worlds, while believing in Christ. Does that void their faith? Some believe in a theistic evolution that combines Genesis with evolution. Does that void their faith in Christ?
If someone prays to a dead Saint or Mary and asks them for something, intercession or whatever, are their prayers answered? I think not, but they do. Jesus told us how to pray - to our Father. And we use that prayer as a template. So Catholics ( mostly) pray to our Father and their prayers are answered and the others ( to Protestants are void) but to them, are of value, significant, maybe even answered.
In the end, what matters is that God got His message to us, as much of it in it's entirety that was necessary for us to be saved. We have thousands of books that we read, value, acquire wisdom and truth from about life. So what. My mother actually believed in Astology, Reincarnation, aliens from other planets, a hollow earth, crystal power ... wow see was out there. ButnI chipped away at all thise false beliefs for 30 years and close to her death, I just about gave up hope. But two days before her death, she was singing about Jesus, believing that He had always been there for her, had His hand on her shoulder. Go figure. She had a negative view of Christianity all her life and was a rebel at heart, partly due to a few negative experiences in a Catholic orphanage as a child for five years. Oh we heard the stories of how mean the Nuns were, slapping her hand fir be naughty, not allowing her to see her younger brother ... I used to tell her, "They didn't slap you enough". She'd laugh. But I also said, "They cared for you, loved you whether you realize it or not". But some things stuck with her, scriptures she held onto, principles she lived by and passed down to us.
God never abandoned her, was guiding her through all that junk in her life. In the end, the junk was sifted out and discarded and He opened up her eyes and revealed Himself. A miracle. I was floored ... Amazing Grace, how sweet it is.
Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me.

And behind the scenes often unseen is the accompanying Spirit sent by Jesus to join us on our journey through life. What a comfort knowing He is with us, even in us who believe. Amazing unmerited favour of God to give us of Himself, His very Own SPIRIT. Praise Him for His brilliant grace that endures forever, without end.
 
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JohnDB

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I still don't understand why people wish to add books to the Bible when they fail so miserably at understanding and doing the directives in the 66 books we have.

They looking for a loophole to do even less than they currently do now?

They looking for a conspiracy to throw away what little faith they currently have or don't really have?

Or....
Are they just looking for a way to license their favorite pet sin?
 

Ronald Nolette

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HUHH??
Irenaeus isn’t saying that the WHOLE Church was founded in Rome. He is talking about the Church AT Rome and how it was established by Peter and Paul.

By the way – Peter was also in Antioch before he went top
Rome . . .
Well now you ar3e beginning to sound historical.
Soooo – if I have a German shepherd – I MUST be a follower of Hitler because HE had one too. What an asinine argument. The Christian ICHTHUS was the symbol for the Bishop’s mitre. To infer it is a “Dagon-worship” symbol is a ridiculous stretch. You would also have to establish the same practices and beliefs . .
Maybe in your mind. But there are many factors affecting this. Why adopt a style they knew was the headgear of a pagan idol?
Revisionist history?? There’s no “Revisionism here. Only documented evidence that destroys your argument. I gave you PRE-Nicene evidence of Peter and Paul in Rome - and that it was the pre-eminent and authoritative Church.
Well I know Peter and Paul were in rome, but Rome was not the preeminent church until long after the 1st century ended.

First it was Jerusalem until the destruction and diaspora, the Antioch, and then in the fourth century Rome when the persecutions ended.
ALL the Churches didn’t agree. That doesn’t make Irenaeus “wrong”. We know that the Eastern Churches eventually split.

There were dozens of ECFs who agreed with Irenaeus.
Doesn't make him right either.
 

BreadOfLife

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He was talking to and about the original apostles, who were taught by Jesus directly and then went to live and write the Bible!
WRONG.

In Luke 10Jesus sent out the SEVENTY-TWO disciples – not the Apostles. They were to be the future leaders of the Church. History tells us that they were Bishops and Priests of the Church. Among them were the evangelists Mark and Luke, Ananias of Jericho, who baptized Paul, James, Bishop pf Jerusalem and many others.

Not some RCCpope who makes the bull unnum sanctum of makes ex-cathedra statements that are so false! Nor pass on secret oral traditions that have no validity other than the Romanists say so.
To which “secret traditions” are you referring??

You'tr just making up this nonsense up as you go along.
 

Ronald Nolette

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You have a good there. It wasn't to the original 12 apostles, but spoken to 70 others.

Luk 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
Go your ways......
That was to announce th ekingdom was here for Messiah had arrived. They did not teach doctrine.
What about the apostles after these, like Paul? And all the apostles that have been of the church appointed by the Spirit of Christ?

Are we going to dare test Jesus who comes to the door of the church and knocks. He sent and was rejected by His own people. They did not accept Him and His teaching.

Are we going to reject the One He sent to His people, His body, His church, His sheep? I did that for far too long. I am learning to accept the Spirit of the Creator, the Holy Ghost.

The false prophets will always be around, but let's not throw out the Holy Spirit with the holy water.
After the Apostle John died, the office of the Apostle died with Him. To them it was givewn to lay the foundation of the church. they laid the founation of the church along with Jesus, and now all the padtors, teachers and prophets are building upon that foundation. there are no more Apostles.
 

Ronald Nolette

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It was commanded for His people to cut the people of Jericho in pieces with the sword. Even the king, cut off his head.
But remember the MOsaic Law was for Jews and proselytes to Judaism for the Jewish people. Not for wars. God commanded to kill pagan nations for they would corrupt the true worship of oGod.
Absolutely. Agreed. Yet God's instructions was to not keep the Sabbath, march around Jericho 7 days. To kill innocent people, especially children and babies. Then later God said to steal, take what wasn't theirs from Ai and other cities.

Yes God flooded the earth by flooding it, killing all but 8 humans.
And He will hurl untold billions into eternal punishment. That is His right, not ours.
This comment of yours and many others is my growing concern. So many who claim to be filled and led by God's Spirit won't even acknowledge Him.

He is the One Who leads us into all truth. He gives us the mind of Christ. He gives us discernment so we can know what's God's words and what's not.

Why will people live in fear of the enemy and overestimate their ability to deceive those in whom the discerning Spirit lives.

We know our Shepherd's voice. We therefore know if a voice we hear is not His.

I am going to encourage people to get to know the Person Who lives in them more and more. He is knowable. He loves us and is committed to changing us to become more like Him in character.

Explore this amazing relationship that's available to all who have received Him. The Holy Soirit deserves our praise and worship.
Well you clearly do not know me then. I freely, often and openly acknowledge the Lord Jesus!

The Holy Spirit leads and guides us!

And you need to do a deep bible study. As believers we are to pray to the Father in the name of the Son, under the power of the Holy spirit. Nowhere in teh bible do you see any command to pray to the Holy Spirit. And remember it is Scripture that is profitable for doctrine, not reason or philosophy or feelings or anything else.
 

BreadOfLife

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Well now you ar3e beginning to sound historical.
That’s because history is on MY side.
It’s definitely NOT on yours .. . .

Maybe in your mind. But there are many factors affecting this. Why adopt a style they knew was the headgear of a pagan idol?
NONSENSE.

The Dagon headdress looked NOTHING like the Bishop's mitre.
It was more of a helmet:

1748883163742.png

So much for your "comparison ". . .
Well I know Peter and Paul were in rome, but Rome was not the preeminent church until long after the 1st century ended.

First it was Jerusalem until the destruction and diaspora, the Antioch, and then in the fourth century Rome when the persecutions ended.
According to YOU – but not according to history . . .
Doesn't make him right either.
It shows historical consensus - something that all of YOUR claims LACK . . .
 

One 2 question

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I still don't understand why people wish to add books to the Bible when they fail so miserably at understanding and doing the directives in the 66 books we have.
Are there people that really want to add books to the bibles that already exist? Are they books written by those living in OT times or just the early church or books written over the past 2000?

Personally I think the whole church has failed miserably at understanding, knowing and living by the Spirit of God Who is our source of all truth that extends way way way beyond what has been written down over the past 6000 years.
 

One 2 question

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But remember the MOsaic Law was for Jews and proselytes to Judaism for the Jewish people. Not for wars. God commanded to kill pagan nations for they would corrupt the true worship of oGod.
So there are exceptions for killing babies? Couldn't Joshua have taken the babies with them and raise them as God fearing Jews?
And He will hurl untold billions into eternal punishment. That is His right, not ours.
Sure
Well you clearly do not know me then. I freely, often and openly acknowledge the Lord Jesus!
Great
The Holy Spirit leads and guides us!
Absolutely, and speaks to us. And we can worship Him, the Person, God.
And you need to do a deep bible study. As believers we are to pray to the Father in the name of the Son, under the power of the Holy spirit. Nowhere in teh bible do you see any command to pray to the Holy Spirit. And remember it is Scripture that is profitable for doctrine, not reason or philosophy or feelings or anything else.
I don't need to be told, instructed or commanded to speak to God within me. We are in a living 2 way relationship so even if someone commanded me not to talk or worship the Holy Spirit, which no one has of course, I would keep doing this because we love eachother and this has become a more natural automatic response to eachother which grows by the day.
 

Ronald Nolette

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In Luke 10Jesus sent out the SEVENTY-TWO disciples – not the Apostles. They were to be the future leaders of the Church. History tells us that they were Bishops and Priests of the Church. Among them were the evangelists Mark and Luke, Ananias of Jericho, who baptized Paul, James, Bishop pf Jerusalem and many others.
And they went out and preached the gospel of the kingdom, not the future church doctrine.

And nowhere in the Scriptures do you see the office of priest like the Romanists have priests. all believers are a nation of priests.
To which “secret traditions” are you referring??

You'tr just making up this nonsense up as you go along.
Are you saying the RCC doesn't h ave a trove of oral traditions?
That’s because history is on MY side.
It’s definitely NOT on yours .. . .
On this one point, yes. As for the rest- not even close.
According to YOU – but not according to history . . .
Well I will take the bible over Romanist history every day!
It shows historical consensus - something that all of YOUR claims LACK . . .
Consensus does not make truthy. Scripture makes truth!
 

Ronald Nolette

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What! Who told you this?
The Scriptural requirement to hold the office of the Apostle and the task of the Apostles found in Ephesians4.
Who said these 70 did not teach doctrine?
The bible! they were sent to preach the kingdom. They preached John the Baptists gospel-"repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand". They only went to Jews!

Luke 10

King James Version

10 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
So there are exceptions for killing babies? Couldn't Joshua have taken the babies with them and raise them as God fearing Jews?
If that is what God ordered yes.
Absolutely, and speaks to us. And we can worship Him, the Person, God.
That is unbiblical. You can scour the Scriptures and will not find one instance of anyone praying or worshipping the Holy spirit.
I don't need to be told, instructed or commanded to speak to God within me. We are in a living 2 way relationship so even if someone commanded me not to talk or worship the Holy Spirit, which no one has of course, I would keep doing this because we love eachother and this has become a more natural automatic response to eachother which grows by the day.
Well you are outside of Gods Word then.
 

JohnDB

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Are there people that really want to add books to the bibles that already exist? Are they books written by those living in OT times or just the early church or books written over the past 2000?

Personally I think the whole church has failed miserably at understanding, knowing and living by the Spirit of God Who is our source of all truth that extends way way way beyond what has been written down over the past 6000 years.
Because people invent sin very creatively. It's human's defining characteristic.

The "Talmud" is a term to reference Jewish religious fiction. This is the bulk of what people wish to add to the Scriptures. It has stories, songs, and tales and all kinds of stuff...Jesus referenced the literature and the book of Jude exclusively quotes and references this stuff...because it was common literature.

The Book of Hebrews references many extra biblical literature as well but it references theological works and sermons of settled theologies written by past former great Rabbi that they all gave credence to. The commentary most noted for being familiar with extra biblical literature is Westcott and Horts commentary on the book of Hebrews. Then Eadie and Lightfoot (Eadie was Westcotts apprentice while Hort and Lughtfoot were financiers of their works).

But we don't use Judaism theological books today as scripture...nor corrupt and innacurate history books as scripture...or even accurate history books.

Scripture is different, has a different purpose, is not a history book. (Even if it contains history)
Nor is SCRIPTURE an entertainment book for entertainment value...although some of the music and poetry can be quite entertaining.

All of these "removed" books were never considered scriptures. They do have value but are NOT SCRIPTURE. And that's what the advocates of these books never ever address. They discuss conspiracy theories and make mountains where there never was one. The last book accepted was Jude and those who brought it were from a fairly remote village. When voting to accept it they abstained from voting because they believed they were biased and didn't want to influence the vote. Conspiracy theorists blow up this abstaining into all sorts of lies.

They love the book of Enoch written @ 150-100 BC. Because the book addresses all the myths and old wives tales surrounding Judaism that had come about by syncreticism with various other religions....especially Mazdaism/Zoarastrianism (The precursor to Gnosticism) that came from the Medo-Persian Empire with Cyrus. The book of Enoch in the very first chapter declares itself NOT to be scripture in the first paragraph in a backhanded fashion but people today don't know the difference so liars gain ground constantly by promoting it.
(They do not fear God when doing so....which means they have zero wisdom)

Handling scripture the way people do today, because it's so common, is a serious egregious error that is often overlooked.

Sure, I extend grace like God has granted me when dealing with misinterpretation but that doesn't mean that it might even be blasphemy of God's name. (Not good)

Just because some books like Revelation might be out of reach of perfect comprehension by no means is license to create theologies out of whole cloth as a result of bad hermeneutics.
 

BreadOfLife

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And they went out and preached the gospel of the kingdom, not the future church doctrine.

And nowhere in the Scriptures do you see the office of priest like the Romanists have priests. all believers are a nation of priests.
In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
- The High Priest (Lev. 16, Haggai 1:12-14 S).
- The Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood (Lev. 16).
- The rest of the people were a General priesthood of believers (Exod. 19:6).

In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
- Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25)
-
The Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15)
-
The General priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).

Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious than the Old Testament type.

James 5:13-15 says that if a person is sick to call the presbyters of the Church so that they can pray over the person. And if the person has sinned they will be forgiven. This is the priestly practice of Extreme Unction (Last Rites)

Are you saying the RCC doesn't h ave a trove of oral traditions?
YOU said “Secret” traditions.
Name some of them . . ..

On this one point, yes. As for the rest- not even close.
AGAINname some instances where history is NOT on my side but IS on yours.
Well I will take the bible over Romanist history every day!
Consensus does not make truthy. Scripture makes truth!
Truth is truth – and facts are fact - and it’s NOT only found in Scripture.

Scripture is ONE source of truth. However, when YOU reject the truth of history – you lose ALL credibility . . .
 

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Why would anyone do that and deny the blessing of having God's Word in written form that we have right now?

That's like saying "imagine back when everyone rode a horse or walked everywhere they went" Why would anybody want to do that?
Yes, the Spirit has grown the church and matured her since then. I have no desire to go back and be an infant among infants.

The body of Christ has strengthened and developed its members and their role is a lot more effective than in its early years.

In the early stages of the church most of its members were dependant on the milk provided through Spirit filled apostles, prophets and teachers. Now we don't need to be so reliant on milk from others but can be taught directly by the indwelling Spirit of all Truth.
 

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The Scriptural requirement to hold the office of the Apostle and the task of the Apostles found in Ephesians4.
There is no specific role description of an apostle here. But the duration of its function is.

Who - And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
What - For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
When - Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ
Eph 4:11- 13

The Church is far from being perfect (complete, of full age). So until then, the Head, Christ still requires apostles as much as evangelists, teachers, prophets, pastors along with encourages, administrators and many other functions.
The bible! they were sent to preach the kingdom. They preached John the Baptists gospel-"repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand". They only went to Jews!

Luke 10​

King James Version​

10 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
Besides the 9 words mentioned in this account (The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you) of Jesus's act of sending these guys out, we aren't told what they specifically taught through each day.

I'm not convince that the only spoke 9 words then were silent til the left for the next village.
If that is what God ordered
Agreed. It's what God asks of us hey, in each situation it could be different. One day, it's kill, another day, preserve life.
That is unbiblical. You can scour the Scriptures and will not find one instance of anyone praying or worshipping the Holy spirit.
So what if the bible doesn't document a certain act, event, truth, doctrine? Most of God's expressed truths, God's words have never been documented. I dont think anyone with the remotest understanding of their Creator would doubt this fact.

If you want to deny, reject, grieve the Divine Person Jesus and His Father sent then go ahead. But for me I'm going to thank, praise and worship God. That is, the God parts in heaven (Father and Son) and the God part on earth (Their Spirit).
Well you are outside of Gods Word then.
How can I be outside of God's Word? I am in Christ Jesus (the Word become flesh Who was from the beginning, the ). This is elementary truth my friend.

The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Heb 1:1-3

Again, every word that proceeds from the mouth of God was not found even in the 80 books of the original KJV bible.