The Church decided the canon. How do you know you have the correct canon?

[David in NJ]

Works and faith are separate and works do not automatically flow from faith. No where does Scripture say faith precedes works or that works depend on faith.

If you have only belief/ faith then you are just like the demons. If you have only works then you have reason to boast. But faith is completed, look again, COMPLETED by works. If works complete faith then works by definition can NOT be dependent on faith.

"You can see, then, that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." (James2:24)Both alone are not sufficient but both are necessary together to complete faith. So when you make reference to all the places in Scripture where it says have faith and believe, that necessarily includes works AND faith since we aren't saved by faith alone. Works are a free choice of the will thats why apart from faith they give man reason to boast. We have to decide to act through faith.

No where does Scripture say faith precedes works or that works depend on faith.

Sure it does = over and over, again and again

JESUS insists that the 'work' of faith/believing in HIM is the 'work' of God that saves us

Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe/faith in Him whom He sent.”

Apostle Peter - "being born-again thru the Word of God which endures forever"

Apostle Paul = "Salvation is the Gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast"

Apostle John = "as many as received HIM, to them gave HE the power to become sons of God"

James wrote "i will show you my faith by my works"

 

[nedsk]

Sure it does = over and over, again and again

JESUS insists that the 'work' of faith/believing in HIM is the 'work' of God that saves us

Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe/faith in Him whom He sent.”

Apostle Peter - "being born-again thru the Word of God which endures forever"

Apostle Paul = "Salvation is the Gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast"

Apostle John = "as many as received HIM, to them gave HE the power to become sons of God"

James wrote "i will show you my faith by my works"

See again you want to insist Scripture is saying something that it doesn't. You need to understand the words to grasp the meaning of what's being said.

Yes James says he will show you his faith by his works. Why? He tell us why. Because faith without works is dead, faith is completed by works and works save us and not faith alone. If what James says is true then to say works depends on faith is either ignorance or blindness.

 

[David in NJ]

See again you want to insist Scripture is saying something that it doesn't. You need to understand the words to grasp the meaning of what's being said.

Yes James says he will show you his faith by his works. Why? He tell us why. Because faith without works is dead, faith is completed by works and works save us and not faith alone. If what James says is true then to say works depends on faith is either ignorance or blindness.

If what James says is true then to say works depends on faith is either ignorance or blindness.

James says his works come from his faith and not vice versa

James: "I will show you my faith by my works"

So who is in ignorance and/or blindness...........

Follow the example James gave for us concerning works = Abraham

 

[David in NJ]

See again you want to insist Scripture is saying something that it doesn't. You need to understand the words to grasp the meaning of what's being said.

Yes James says he will show you his faith by his works. Why? He tell us why. Because faith without works is dead, faith is completed by works and works save us and not faith alone. If what James says is true then to say works depends on faith is either ignorance or blindness.

Post #463 UPdated for you

 

[nedsk]

James says his works come from his faith and not vice versa

James: "I will show you my faith by my works"

So who is in ignorance and/or blindness...........

Follow the example James gave for us concerning works = Abraham

There is nothing there that says works come from his faith he says I will show you my faith not my works come from my faith. You can't make it say what it doesn't say.

James is clear about Abraham. "Was not Abraham our Father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?" (James 2:21) Why say he was justified by works if it's faith that justifies us? Faith is brought to completion by works. AGAIN if faith alone is sufficient it doesn't need completion by works. Something that is sufficient for a task is by definition doesn't need completion by something else.

 

[Titus]

We can eliminate the counterfeit catholic church as the source of the canon simply by them adding the apocrypha to the Holy Bible.

Deuteronomy 4:2,
- ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you

The Jews who wrote the apocrypha themselves do not consider it Inspired.

 

[nedsk]

We can eliminate the counterfeit catholic church as the source of the canon simply by them adding the apocrypha to the Holy Bible.

Deuteronomy 4:2,
- ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you

The Jews who wrote the apocrypha themselves do not consider it Inspired.

Then we can eliminate the 20,000+ heretical protestant denominations, first simply because of that facg alone but also for preaching the non biblical sola scriptura and Sola fide along with osas. All three are unicorn beliefs.... imaginary

 

[David in NJ]

There is nothing there that says works come from his faith he says I will show you my faith not my works come from my faith. You can't make it say what it doesn't say.

James is clear about Abraham. "Was not Abraham our Father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?" (James 2:21) Why say he was justified by works if it's faith that justifies us? Faith is brought to completion by works. AGAIN if faith alone is sufficient it doesn't need completion by works. Something that is sufficient for a task is by definition doesn't need completion by something else.

I will show you my faith..................how? = by his works = therefore works FOLLOW faith

James says his works are derived from his faith = not vice versa

THINK Truth = faith in what God says is how we do the works of God = SEE Abraham that James quotes

O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?
Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did.

 

[Titus]

Then we can eliminate the 20,000+ heretical protestant denominations, first simply because of that facg alone but also for preaching the non biblical sola scriptura and Sola fide along with osas. All three are unicorn beliefs.... imaginary

Amen.

That is why friend I am neither catholic or protestant.
I am simply a Christian only.
No hyphenated Christians are true Biblical Christians.

OSAS is false doctrine.
Bible only is Biblical teaching.
The only thing God has sent from His own mouth to man is the Holy Bible.
All other books are uninspired works of the devil.(That claim to be from God)

 

[nedsk]

I will show you my faith..................how? = by his works = therefore works FOLLOW faith

James says his works are derived from his faith = not vice versa

THINK Truth = faith in what God says is how we do the works of God = SEE Abraham that James quotes

O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?
Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did.

It doesn't say perfected. Stop trying to insist Scripture says things it doesn't say.

 

[David in NJ]

It doesn't say perfected. Stop trying to insist Scripture says things it doesn't say.

The scripture was copied from biblehub.com
i did not check which Version but here it is from NKJV

But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

Here is the word 'perfect' used in James 2:22 from Strong's Concordance

was perfected
ἐτελειώθη (eteleiōthē)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Passive - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 5048: From teleios; to complete, i.e. accomplish, or consummate.

 

[nedsk]

Amen.

That is why friend I am neither catholic or protestant.
I am simply a Christian only.
No hyphenated Christians are true Biblical Christians.

OSAS is false doctrine.
Bible only is Biblical teaching.
The only thing God has sent from His own mouth to man is the Holy Bible.
All other books are uninspired works of the devil.(That claim to be from God)

Show where the bible says bible only. Don't waste time with 2 Timothy 3:16 that doesn't say only

 

[nedsk]

The scripture was copied from biblehub.com
i did not check which Version but here it is from NKJV

But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

Here is the word 'perfect' used in James 2:22 from Strong's Concordance

was perfected
ἐτελειώθη (eteleiōthē)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Passive - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 5048: From teleios; to complete, i.e. accomplish, or consummate.

Complete not perfected. Nice try though.

 

[Titus]

Show where the bible says bible only. Don't waste time with 2 Timothy 3:16 that doesn't say only

Friend, You either believe the Bible or you don't.
The sacred Scriptures plainly say it is sin to ADD to Gods word.

You must again deny the sacred Scriptures to claim the Bible is not perfect ,completed was once for all delivered.

Jude 3,
- beloved when I gave all diligence to write to unto you of the common salvation it was needful for me to write unto you and exhort you that we should contend earnestly for the faith(gospel)
which was(past tense) once delivered(it was ONCE delivered in the past) unto the saints

Once delivered means just that.
It was only one time in history that the gospel of Jesus Christ was delivered unto the saints.
Catholics do not believe this, teach this nor practice this.

No such thing as extra Biblical inspired writings in the future from the time the revelation of God i.e. The Holy Bible was completed.

 

[David in NJ]

Complete not perfected. Nice try though.

i wasn't trying

Thus i posted, not my words, but the words of scripture = completed is synonymous with perfected in many places in scripture

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[One 2 question]

This would be known as 'intramural' communication via the Holy Spirit

This is where the Spirit Himself communicates with the individual member of the church for their edification and for the building up of other members. The physical location of where this takes place is irrelevant as the Holy Spirit has made us His mobile home, communicating new revelations, direct instructions, words of encouragement etc on the go.

This is awesome!

 

[One 2 question]

Ye

Is not just confessing with our mouths. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom not heaven, but only the one who does the will of my heavenly Father." (Matt 7:21)

Then we have Matt 25:31-46. Those how fed the hungry, gave drink to the thirsty, welcomed strangers, clothed the naked, cared for the sick and visited those in prison inherited the kingdom. It was not just faith/ belief because even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19) This is not to say works saves anyone but some people seem to think it's either faith or works, it's not it's both faith and works. Scripture is clear.

People then say, well works flow from faith. Sure but we still have to make a free conscious choice of the will to do that. If we aren't free to refuse to do the work then we aren't doing the work out of love. Love must be a free choice of the will.

Faith is not sufficient by itself, "You can see, then, that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone(James 2:24) this is confirmed in Matthew as indicated above. It doesn't mean works save us but neither does faith my itself. It's all right there.

Absolutely. The combination of faith in God and works done unto God = justification.

As far as love is concerned, I love God in response to a revelation of His love for me and His creations.
He opened the eyes of my understanding so I could see God's acts of love (works) and I acted on this revelation by faith and works. I believed in my heart (faith) and confessed with my mouth (works). From that point on and for decades I've continued to live by faith and works. This is the foundation of Holy Spirit and my relationship.

God has faith in me and acts accordingly. I have faith in Him and I act accordingly. Faith/belief/trust AND acts/deeds/works are 2 essential ingredients of justification.

As God said through James....But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

 

[One 2 question]

Bible only is Biblical teaching.

makes sense. As Koran only is Koran teaching.

The only thing God has sent from His own mouth to man is the Holy Bible.

When did God tell YOU this? Nowhere is this quoted in the bibles.

All other books are uninspired works of the devil.(That claim to be from God)

Again, when did God tell YOU this? Nowhere is this quoted in the bibles.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

For the prophecy came not in olden times by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

By inspiration of GOD and moved by the HOLY GHOST.

Sounds like what has continued over the past 2000 years through church members, who are filled, led, moved, enabled to both receive and transmit the ongoing never ending words of God.

I'm so glad my Father, my Shepherd and my Holy Ghost has never stopped communicating with me and Their creations. They are worthy of our praise and worship.

 

[Titus]

The only thing God has sent from His own mouth to man is the Holy Bible.

When did God tell YOU this? Nowhere is this quoted in the bibles.

Jude 3,
- beloved when I gave all diligence to write to unto you of the common salvation it was needful for me to write unto you and exhort you that we should contend earnestly for the faith(gospel)
which was(past tense) once delivered(it was ONCE delivered in the past) unto the saints

Once delivered means just that.
It was only one time in history that the gospel of Jesus Christ was delivered unto the saints.
Catholics do not believe this, teach this nor practice this.

No such thing as extra Biblical inspired writings in the future from the time the revelation of God i.e. The Holy Bible was completed

Nice to meet you.

 

[Josho]

24

I just wonder do the Jews of today read the other books like 1 and 2 Maccabees, Tobit, Judith, Baruch?

As you have noticed a lot of protestants jump to conclusions on books like those, I am careful not to, as they may have very well been part of the original Bible before the English translations came about.

What if King James got it wrong all those years ago to leave out those 7 books?

I am also well aware the Catholic & Orthodox denominations have been around for a lot longer that the 1000s of other Christian denominations.