THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

[rebuilder 454]

How is it possible to not know that the church is the bride of Jesus?????

Last days deception

 

[Doug]

So the Holy Spirit is not for Gentile born again believers?

I did not say that
Of course Gentiles get the Spirit

 

[Doug]

So the Holy Spirit is not for Gentile born again believers? I can hardly believe my ears. You would need to tell the Holy Spirit He made a mistake coming to Gentiles then, lol....tell God that He better take the Holy Spirit back from us.. My friend you are sadly mistaken:

Act 10:44-45

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on ALL them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.


May I ask where you are getting all these ideas from....do you have a particular denomination or ministry that you are affiliated with?

All I was saying was the verses you gave in John was directed to his disciples not us

I listen to Grace Ambassadors and Twin Cities mid acts right division dispensational

Grace Ambassadors

Grace Ambassadors provides Biblical answers to denominational confusion, church-hype, and empty religious tradition. Find more free resources including thousands of articles and lessons on our website: www.graceambassadors.com

www.youtube.com

TwinCitiesGraceFellowship

Josh Strelecki, Pastor-Teacher of Twin Cities Grace Fellowship Born in Milwaukee WI. Childhood in Crystal Falls in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Saved before freshman year of high school. In college, started walking after the Spirit, reading scripture, and ever since loves to get into...

www.youtube.com

 

[Titus]

How is it possible to not know that the church is the bride of Jesus?????

Last days deception

The simplist arguments are the hardest to refute because they are too plain in sight to be misunderstood.

Doug, has been shown the errors in his theology yet continues on as if they have not been exposed for all to see that still have eyes that can see and ears that can still hear.

Of course the deaf and blind cannot as they have already been deceived by false teachers.

I'm not picking on Doug as this is common on forums. Folks are shown their beliefs have contradictions, inconsistencies and dont even have one scripture that mentions their doctrine like praying to the dead for example.

Heres one obvious reason Doug's interpretation is built upon sinking ground.

Ephesians 4:4-5, Paul says it so plain you have to put effort in to misunderstand him!!!!

ONE, ONE, ONE, ONE

Since Paul states there is ONE faith(gospel).
Then can there be two?

If I claim there are two faith's then have I not disagreed with Paul? Am I not contradicting Paul?

If Paul were here today gave a public teaching to us and said, there is ONE gospel.

Do you think anyone in the audience would stand up any say, " well there's actually two Faith's Paul".

I know Dougs reasoning is, during Paul's ministry when the epistle to the Ephesians was written there is one faith but in the past there was another gospel preached by Peter.

Ok, then by that reasoning I can also reason,
There can be more than ONE Spirit, more than ONE calling, more than ONE baptism etc.
More than ONE Lord!!!
If ONE doesn't really mean ONE except for what Paul is stating at the  time of this epistle, then
One can argue there can be more than one of the others.
If not why not?

What should be so obvious about this entire doctrine is this,
Not once in the entire Bible does it say in the time of the new testament will there be two gospels.
Not one verse in the entire new testament with the word gospel(s).
That's awfully odd if there is gospels from diferent apostles.

Paul said he preached  my gospel referring to his ministry, Romans 16:25

But Paul also said his gospel was our(we) gospel,
Galatians 1:8,
- but though we preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you let him be accursed

Paul includes the other apostles in his ONE gospel.

Paul even said in his epistle to the Galatians that he currently meamning during the time period he wrote the Galation epistle that he now preaches the gospel he once tried to destroy.

The gospel he now preaches , in his past before his conversion, he once tried to destroy Peter's gospel.
All the apostles are preaching the ONE gospel of Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:11; 23,
- but I certify you, brethren that the gospel which is preached of me is not after man
- but they had heard only that he(Paul) which persecuted us in times past now preaches the faith(gospel) HE ONCE TRIED TO DESTROY

Paul is now preaching the same gospel that Peter and the rest of the apostles preached before him.

 

[Jay Ross]

Nope nope nope.
I looked it up.
The interlinear DOES NOT agree with you.

Also, here is a copy & paste from Bible hub;

Biblical Scope of “Newness”
The adjective translated “new” (Strong’s Greek 2537) appears forty-two times across the New Testament, proclaiming God’s decisive in-breaking to transform creation, covenant, humanity, worship, and destiny. The term emphasizes quality more than chronology: what God brings is not merely recent but radically different, fresh, and unprecedented, yet perfectly consistent with His earlier revelation.

I do not disagree with the Bible Hub's understanding of G:2537, however in the New Wine in the refreshed wineskins parable, a "new wineskin" unless it is soft and pliable, it will burst if the skin has aged and become relatively hard and brittle and will burst if fresh wine is put into that wineskin. So, the wine skin needs to be refreshed/refurbished so that the skin becomes soft and pliable by the application oils and waxes so that the leather is usable as a wineskin. So, the wineskin is "made like new again"/renewed/refurbished before it is used to store wine in.

However, the use of the English word "new" in Rev 21:1 & 5 suggests the wrong context. What John is telling us is that God "will make like new again" the heavens and the land.

 

[David in NJ]

[Heb 8:7 KJV] 7 For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

He will establish a new covenant

[Heb 8:10 KJV] 10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

He did not do away with the law

HE did away with the law of Moses to establish a BETTER law = the Law of Christ

 

[Doug]

Do you think there are two baptisms to enter the Lords church ?
Acts 2:21, 38
- and it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved
- then Peter said unto them repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins...

These Jews were baptized under the old law by John the Baptist. Mark 1:1-8
Now they have the death, burial and ressurection preached to them by Peter and they are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ into the new covenant of Jesus Christ.

Yes John's baptism was old covenant
Israel had to believe the gospel of the kingdom which is the Davidic earthly kingdom over which Christ reigns for a thousand years
Israel also had to believe on the name of Jesus that he was Christ the Son of God
Thats why they baptized in his name..........baptizing was for remission of sins as well as believing on his name

[Mar 1:4 KJV] 4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
[Luk 24:47 KJV] 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

 

[Doug]

Just like Paul said all the saved do,
Romans 10:12-13,
- for there is no difference between jew and gentile for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him

- for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved

Paul was citing Joel.....this was for Israel

[Joe 2:32 KJV] 32 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Peter said Pentecost was about Joel 2:30-32

Romans 9-11 is about Israel

 

[GracePeace]

His doctrine is hyperpalline doctrine.
We used to have one of those type of guys in our men's Bible study and he also bucked up at any notion that Jesus has a bride.
He started kissing his own arm in the Bible study.
He said to us "Do you see how perverted that is? Jesus loving on his own body?"
I shake my head in disbelief at that doctrine.
I totally believe that hyper pauline doctrine is a Antichrist spirit.
They minimize Jesus and they exalt Paul

I don't even understand how it could be hyper-Pauline to deny what Paul writes--mocking the idea that a man's wife is his own body, because they two become one flesh... anyway!

 

[Doug]

Peter preached ONE gospel.
Paul preached ONE gospel.
Both preached the same gospel.

They all preached the resurrection and his death but Peter said he was raised to sit on David;s throne .........................[Act 2:30 KJV] 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Paul said he was raised for our justification

Peter preached his death by accusing them not for our sins.......................[Act 2:23 KJV] 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

 

[GracePeace]

They all preached the resurrection and his death but Peter said he was raised to sit on David;s throne .........................[Act 2:30 KJV] 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Paul said he was raised for our justification

Peter preached his death by accusing them not for our sins.......................[Act 2:23 KJV] 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Being forgiven of your sins (as Peter says) is one and the same with being justified (as Paul says), because Paul defines "the righteousness of faith" (that results in justification) as BEING FORGIVEN (Ro 4:6-8).

Romans 4
5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7“BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN,
AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.
8“BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.”

 

[GracePeace]

Galatians 1:11; 23,
- but I certify you, brethren that the gospel which is preached of me is not after man
- but they had heard only that he(Paul) which persecuted us in times past now preaches the faith(gospel) HE ONCE TRIED TO DESTROY

Paul is now preaching the same gospel that Peter and the rest of the apostles preached before him.

There are so many death knells to his folly.

 

[GracePeace]

They all preached the resurrection and his death but Peter said he was raised to sit on David;s throne .........................[Act 2:30 KJV] 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Paul said he was raised for our justification

Peter preached his death by accusing them not for our sins.......................[Act 2:23 KJV] 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

When Peter says Christ was raised to sit on David's throne, he's just talking about how Jesus is the Messiah LOL not differing with Paul. Both Paul and Peter identify Christ is the Messiah--and that's good, since Apostle John says if you deny that fact you are antichrist.

Both Paul and Peter preach that through Christ we are forgiven our sins--though Paul is more detailed in his explication in Romans.

 

[Titus]

Mar 1:4 KJV] 4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
[Luk 24:47 KJV] 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem

These two are different dispensations.

Mark 1:4 Jesus is physically alive He is about to begin His earthly ministry. Therefore His new covenant is not yet in force. His new testament gospel has not yet gone into effect, Hebrews 9:16-17
Mark 1:4 is during the limited commission. Only the house of Israel is to be preached,
Matthew 10:5,
- these twelve Jesus sent out instructing them, do not go among the gentiles and to not go into a city of the Samaritans, Therefore John's baptism was under the old testament during Jesus' limited commission.

Luke 24:47 is Jesus preaching the great commission. This is new testament gospel for both jew and gentile as prophecied by Joel and quoted by Peter in Acts chapter 2.
- and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to ALL nations beginning in Jerusalem

Paul was citing Joel.....this was for Israel

[Joe 2:32 KJV] 32 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Peter said Pentecost was about Joel 2:30-32

Romans 9-11 is about Israel

The prophecy of Joel was for the last days.
Both Peter and Paul are preaching the new testament gospel of Jesus Christ in the last days starting with Peter's preaching in Acts 2.
Joel's prophecy was not for fleshy Israel alone but both jew and gentile, the whole world,

Acts 2:16-17,
- and it shall come to pass in the last days saith God I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh(jew and gentile) and your sons and your daughters shall prophecy and your young men shall see visions and your old men shall dream dreams

This prophecy is fulfilled in Acts 2 when the Apostles are Holy Spirit baptized
And the the gentiles recieve the Holy Spirit miraculous gift with Cornelius in Acts 10 as the first gentile convert to be saved by Peter's gospel.

Jews and gentiles being saved by the ONE gospel in the new testament.

Romans 9-11 is about Israel

Really?
Do you not know that the book of Acts is where the conversions took place and Romans are those whoobeyed the gospel in Acts? Acts 2:10.
Romans is written to Jews and gentiles,
The gospel Paul preaches in Romans is the great commission. It is for the whole world.
Romans 1:16,
- for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth to the jew first and also to the greek(gentile)

Romans 10:9-11, 12
- for there is no difference between jew and gentile for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that CALL UPON HIM

Romans is not for fleshly Israel alone!!!
You are mistaken.
Paul clearly teaches that whoever calls upon the name of the Lord is for both jew and gentile.
Romans 10:9-13,
- for whosoever CALLS upon the name of the Lord shall be saved

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

How is it possible to not know that the church is the bride of Jesus?????

Last days deception

Yep, the devil did a number on these people and they don't even know it. Very sad.

The same folks have deep issues with believing and accepting the Lord loves them on a personal level.

 

[GracePeace]

Really?
Do you not know that the book of Acts is where the conversions took place and Romans are those whoobeyed the gospel in Acts? Acts 2:10.
Romans is written to Jews and gentiles,
The gospel Paul preaches in Romans is the great commission. It is for the whole world.
Romans 1:16,
- for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth to the jew first and also to the greek(gentile)

Romans 10:9-11, 12
- for there is no difference between jew and gentile for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that CALL UPON HIM

Romans is not for fleshly Israel alone!!!
You are mistaken.
Paul clearly teaches that whoever calls upon the name of the Lord is for both jew and gentile.
Romans 10:9-13,
- for whosoever CALLS upon the name of the Lord shall be saved

This passage goes into detail on how Abraham is father of many nations (Gentiles).

Romans 4:
9Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 10How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.

13For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

16For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17(as it is written, “A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU”) in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist. 18In hope against hope he believed, so that he might become a father of many nations according to that which had been spoken, “SO SHALL YOUR DESCENDANTS BE.”

 

[Doug]

@Doug

If "faith comes by hearing God's Word", and there is only "one faith", that would mean that there is only one "Word of God" that people hear--ie, "one Gospel", God's testimony about His Son (1 Jn 5).

The fact remains that there is more than one gospel
The one faith centers on Christ thru the whole Bible and grace

 

[GracePeace]

The fact remains that there is more than one gospel

Not at all. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, and there is only one faith, so there is only one message to put faith in.
The "not at all" belongs to your unsubstantiable claim about there being more than one Gospel.
You have many challenges to overcome to prove your claim, and you have overcome exactly zero of them.

 

[Doug]

No, it was not a "tradition"--Jesus had taught His disciples very well not to fear the traditions of the elders, describing them as "vain worship", "doctrines of men", whereby they broke God's Law, so Peter would not, now, say "The traditions of the elders say it is unlawful for Jews to eat with Gentiles", but, as I said, the text clearly states that Israel will not be numbered among the Gentiles, but dwells alone.

The Laws the Jews followed did not only come from the Sinai Covenant, but were gleaned from the entirety of the Torah (first five books).
Paul, for instance, says "you know our tradition when we were with you that whoever did not work did not eat"--that is Genesis 3, where it says, "by the sweat of your brow you shall eat food".

Again and again, you know nothing at all about the things of which you speak, so you need to tread lightly so that you don't mislead people. Quit being insane.

[Lev 19:34 KJV] 34 [But] the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I [am] the LORD your God.

The strangers are Gentiles

Its true Israel was not reckoned among the nations they were separated but God made provisions for the Gentiles

[Exo 12:48 KJV] 48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

 

[GracePeace]

[Lev 19:34 KJV] 34 [But] the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I [am] the LORD your God.

The strangers are Gentiles

Its true Israel was not reckoned among the nations they were separated but God made provisions for the Gentiles

[Exo 12:48 KJV] 48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Yeah, if a Gentile JOINS Israel, the Torah says "there shall be one Law for the native born and the sojourner", so there wouldn't be an issue with Peter going to one of THEIR homes, but Cornelius WASN'T one of them, which was exactly why the Jews who went with Peter were ASTONISHED that Cornelius, et al, had received the Holy Spirit, and why the Jewish believers CONFRONTED Peter for what they thought was his sin when he went back to Jerusalem, and why they pointed out that "This means God has granted the Gentiles, not just Israel, repentance, too."