1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured THE CHURCH

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by H. Richard, May 27, 2019.

  1. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,291
    Likes Received:
    825
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The Church

    Many people interpreted the scriptures to have different meanings. This is why there are so many different church denominations and doctrines.

    Is Christ divided? NO. Is the "SPIRITUAL CHURCH" divided? NO.

    Is man's understanding divided? YES. Are church denominations, organized by men, divided? YES.

    What is Religion? It is organized groups of people professing certain religious beliefs and having a hierarchy of leadership. The leadership determines their religious beliefs based upon their interpretation of their reference book writings (the Bible or similar book) and doctrine studies.

    The Jewish religion consisted of ceremonies and rituals that people performed. The people had faith (trust) that by performing these ceremonies and rituals they were doing what God wanted them to do.

    But there was/is a problem with this; ** ANYONE COULD (CAN) DO THEM **. They don't require a personal commitment of the heart. They don't require a repentant, humble heart. In fact, if you think about it, most all religions in the world teach ceremonies and rituals that people must perform in order to be right with God.

    Jesus taught us that God is not pleased with ceremonies and rituals.
    (Ps 40:6, Ps 51:16-17, Heb 10:5-6, Heb 10:10-12) God is pleased with a humble, repentant, trusting heart (like a child). Jesus taught us that He, Jesus, wants us to know that He is alive and sits at the right hand of God ready and wanting to hear our prayers (our conversation with Him in our hearts). We must come to Him in a spirit of humility, repentance, and faith (trust), in His love and His promises. He taught us that we must worship Him in the spirit (from the heart). He taught us that if we worship in the spirit He is faithful and will hear and keep us.

    There are still those that teach ceremonies and rituals and there are still those that trust in them. However, people must have a personal relationship with Jesus so that, in the Day of Judgment, Jesus will not say depart from me, I never knew you. (John 10:14 "I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own, NKJ). He will say this if they trusted in what they thought they could do in ceremonies and rituals to save them instead of going to Jesus in a personal relationship so that He can know and save them. But there are those that think a person can trust in both God and in what they can do. The Jewish nation was carried off into captivity because of this idea.

    What is a Christian? A person who is personally trusting that God loves him and sent his son, Jesus Christ, into the world to die on a cross for his sins. A person that trusts God to save and keep him just as Abraham did. (Read Romans 4:1-8) A Christian is a person that has been reborn (filled) with God's Spirit "by God."

    CONTINUED
     
  2. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,291
    Likes Received:
    825
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    What is the Church? The Church is made up of Christians (see above).

    John 4:20-24... (NIV)
    20 "Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship."
    21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.
    22 "You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
    23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
    24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
    (NKJ)

    Matt 15:8... (NIV)
    8 'These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
    (NKJ)

    The church has this in common with the Jewish Temple of the O.T. in that it is the dwelling place of God on earth. But it is contrasted with the Temple, a physical, tangible, building made of perishable materials. The church is a structure built of living stones. (spiritual house, 1 Peter 2:4-5)

    Therefore, the Church is a spiritual entity and the head of the Church is Jesus Christ who gave his life for it. No man is to be considered as head of the Church. The Church's visibility in the world is shown through Christians, individually and as groups. It is not a religious organization, or building, or certain place. The Church exists within the hearts of Christians. Read LUKE, 17:20 "The Kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, Here it is, or there it is, because the kingdom of God "is" within you". God himself controls the Spiritual Church of Jesus Christ.

    How can a person become a member of the true Spiritual Church? The answer is very simple. Place faith in what God has done for them.

    Rom 10:9-13 ... (NIV)
    9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
    10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
    11 As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
    12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile-- the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,
    13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

    The church, which is His body;

    Scripture Reading: Ephesians 1:22, 23

    Many Christians believe that every time the word "church" appears in Scripture, it refers to the same thing. This thinking has led to much error and confusion. The fact is, at least three can be distinguished in Scripture.

    The first church we find in the Bible is "the church in the wilderness" (Act 7: 38). This was the Old Testament congregation of Israel. Some would object to calling Israel a church, but this is exactly what the Holy Spirit calls her. In fact, the Hebrew word for "congregation", found numerous times in the Old Testament, is equivalent to the Greek word for "church" (see Psalm 22:22 & Hebrews 2:12). Yet, the Old Testament Israelite church is not the church of today.

    The next church we read of in Scripture is yet future. Christ spoke of it in Matthew 16:18 where Christ told Peter, "I will build my church; and the gates of hell (Gk. 'hades') shall not prevail against it." This church is still future, for it is begun with a resurrected people. The "gates of hades" is not a reference to Satan's forces, as many teach, but a reference to the entrance (and exit) of the place of the dead (cf. Isaiah 38:10 where "gates of the grave" is literally "the gates of sheol" - sheol being the Hebrew equivalent to the Greek hades).

    The third church is the church of today. Paul calls it "the Church which is His body" (Ephesians 1:22, 23). His body is not a physical building located on earth. All true believers today are members of the church of His body, and it is the one true Church in this dispensation of grace. I am a member of this Church?
     
  3. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,400
    Likes Received:
    826
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    So what are you proposing for the ordinary guy sitting in Church, listening to the preaching of the gospel and who seeks to obey Jesus?

    As you know every good sermon not only explains what the bible says but also applies it to our lives here and now.

    What is your application of your sermon?
     
    GodsGrace likes this.
  4. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,759
    Likes Received:
    2,156
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I believe that in God's eyes we are not spiritually divided if we have the Holy Spirit of God in us and are in Christ. We are not divided but already have the unity of the Spirit. We may not agree on doctrine or the colour of the walls in the brew room, or baptism or even about whether to have a bag or a plate for collections. But if we are born again Jesus unites us; his blood unites us; his sacrifice unites us. We are already one family in Christ; albeit a quarrelsome one.

    And whilst there are divisions within the Church over unimportant doctrinal matters which have been interpreted in different ways by different sectors of Christ's body, nonetheless the important thing is that all who are born again in Christ are united with Christ and therefore must surely be united with each other.

    If we will stop looking at the differences between us and begin to see ourselves as united in the way I have described then maybe that will go a long way to closing the divisions and ending the quarrels.
     
  5. David kilmer

    David kilmer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    83
    Faith:
    Atheist
    Country:
    United States
    But why wouldn't you want to keep things about yourself what makes you you ? Otherwise I have met the requirements and agree. People interpret scriptures to mean something different because each person has a different mind. Now if it is one way for excellent understanding good teachers are a blessing.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  6. David kilmer

    David kilmer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    83
    Faith:
    Atheist
    Country:
    United States
    Mine is to help the lost and sinners, pagan, gentile, or not. At least try. For the guy sitting church, to read the Bible and believe upon Jesus. To seek, think, and find. With faith it's possible. He should bring his family and friends and see his new friends and family.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  7. David kilmer

    David kilmer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    83
    Faith:
    Atheist
    Country:
    United States
    Yeah we all come from the same maker. Father God made all of us. We can do it right?
     
    Acolyte and Pearl like this.
  8. David kilmer

    David kilmer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    83
    Faith:
    Atheist
    Country:
    United States
    Yeah the second church you mentioned is the church of the father. He wanted all of us to be United as living beings each with similar and or different qualities.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  9. David kilmer

    David kilmer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    83
    Faith:
    Atheist
    Country:
    United States
    This guy told me one time that hell or Hades is a place where all of your fears could be imagined or realized.
     
  10. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,696
    Likes Received:
    5,303
    The point is indeed spiritual unity which the Holy Spirit has already forged among us, rather than organizational unity.
     
    Acolyte and Pearl like this.
  11. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,759
    Likes Received:
    2,156
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    So many people can't or refuse to see this farouk.
     
    farouk likes this.
  12. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,696
    Likes Received:
    5,303
    I do think than if Christians simply continued steadfastly in the activities of Acts 2.42 that the early Christians continued steadfastly in, there wouldn't be the sense of obsession about organizations and structures and schemes of supposed unity.
     
    Heart2Soul, marksman and Pearl like this.
  13. David kilmer

    David kilmer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    83
    Faith:
    Atheist
    Country:
    United States
    I edited some posts.
     
  14. David kilmer

    David kilmer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    83
    Faith:
    Atheist
    Country:
    United States
    Good answer! The question is.... Willingness.and faith.
     
  15. David kilmer

    David kilmer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    83
    Faith:
    Atheist
    Country:
    United States
    As they say it's all in time and understanding of the Christ body or God head.
     
  16. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,258
    Likes Received:
    2,795
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I was saying Hallelujah all the way up to when you called the 2nd church "future", giving the reason that Christ referred to a "resurrected" church.

    According to the apostle Paul, we who "believe" (Rom 10:9-13) "was" or "have been crucified" and also "raised up with Christ." Not future, but past tense. Which phenomena he explained as "we who are alive and remain" (in the world).
     
  17. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,646
    Likes Received:
    355
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Church/Religion/Leaders/Hirelings

    Scripture lays out the operation of the "church":

    1 Cor. 14:26 What then, brethren? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation.


    That's wrong. We need to have a HIRELING to "study" for us; "hear from GOD" for us; and "spend our tithe" for us. Who'd be so crazy to think that any person who attends "church" needs to do ANYTHING MORE than open his/her billfold/purse?!?


    I was born at night, but not last night,
    Bobby Jo
     
  18. David kilmer

    David kilmer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    83
    Faith:
    Atheist
    Country:
    United States
    So was I my hair was black
     
  19. David kilmer

    David kilmer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    83
    Faith:
    Atheist
    Country:
    United States
    I changed. Get over it. people grow up.
     
  20. David kilmer

    David kilmer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    83
    Faith:
    Atheist
    Country:
    United States
    I don't attend church, just happy and bored. I got my money. What was it from?
     
Loading...