The Coming Rapture

[PinSeeker]

I don't think you qualify to lecture me...

I'm not doing anything of the sort, SI. I was very all-inclusive with my comments:

• "the same can be said of us all"
• "not aimed at anyone in particular but applies to us all"
• "for any one of us to attribute that to and/or to disparage or tear down any one here..."
• "How we conduct ourselves..."
• "I think we should all be far more concerned about..."

He talks the same way.

Yes. <smile>

He's fine with it.

Well, probably not, but even so, that makes it okay for anyone to speak in... said ways... to him or anyone else? No...

That doesn't mean I should talk to someone else that way who actually has an open mind and is more sensitive than him. I understand that. It depends on the person.

Ah, so your assessment of the character or lack thereof ~ using yourself as the standard, obviously ~ regarding another person determines how you speak to him or her. Hmmm...

But., you go ahead and keep your holier than thou attitude if you want.

Well, I don't "want"... But yeah, think what you will, for sure.

I can't stop you.

Nor I you.

By the way, I knew you would react the way you have. Which... seems like a self-acknowledgment of guilt, and in that sense would be a good thing... if acted upon well... which again, is applicable to all of us. <smile>
,
Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm not doing anything of the sort, SI. I was very all-inclusive with my comments:

• "the same can be said of us all"
• "not aimed at anyone in particular but applies to us all"
• "for any one of us to attribute that to and/or to disparage or tear down any one here..."
• "How we conduct ourselves..."

Yes. <smile>


Well, probably not, but even so, that makes it okay for anyone to speak in... said ways... to him or anyone else? No...


Ah, so your assessment of the character or lack thereof ~ using yourself as the standard, obviously ~ regarding another person determines how you speak to him or her. Hmmm...


Well, I don't "want"... But yeah, think what you will, for sure.


Nor I you.

By the way, I knew you would react the way you have. Which... seems like a self-acknowledgment of guilt, and in that sense is a good thing... if acted upon well. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

He acknowledged recently that he changed his mind about something after reading one of my posts, so you are clearly wrong in thinking he is offended by how I talk to him. He wouldn't keep talking to me if he was. Have you ever seen him complain about how I talk to him? Meanwhile, you never get anywhere with him because you don't try to talk to him in a way that he can understand and instead talk to him with your holier than thou attitude.

 

[PinSeeker]

He acknowledged recently that he changed his mind about something after reading one of my posts, so you are clearly wrong in thinking he is offended by how I talk to him.

That's not what was talking about. But he probably is offended to some extent, as evidenced by the fact that he often responds in kind, returning evil for evil. It's like a never-ending tennis match in a dark sort of way... <smile>

...you don't try to talk to him in a way that he can understand and instead talk to him with your holier than thou attitude.

Pish. The record is clear. I will certainly stop short of saying I've been perfect, of course ~ we all fall far short of the glory of God ~ but in all my interactions I make a concerted effort remain respectful and graceful... and even here with you is no exception.

Grace and peace to you, SI.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Pish. The record is clear. I will certainly stop short of saying I've been perfect, of course ~ we all fall far short of the glory of God ~ but in all my interactions I make a concerted effort remain respectful and graceful... and even here with you is no exception.

Pish. You have certainly made exceptions a number of times when talking to me. But, whatever. You be you and I will be me.

And, now, let's get back to our regularly scheduled discussion of "The Coming Rapture". Oh, is that what this thread is about? LOL.

 

[PinSeeker]

You have certainly made exceptions a number of times when talking to me.

I have never said anything to you like some of the things you have said to me or other posters here... or used the same sort of "manner" you often do either with me or with other posters here. nor would I. Have I been perfect? No, of course not. But the record is clear.

Yes, let's get back to it, after you've issued your (supposedly) last back-handed, graceless parting shot... so you can redirect them to other deserving folks... Christians... right? <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[The Light]

LOL! Great job at proving my point!

Nah, great job of cherry-picking part of the scripture without providing context.

You couldn't just read Revelation 17:1-4 as written and know what it was saying. You had to look at other scripture to see what some of it means. That's called interpreting scripture with scripture.

Scripture does explain scripture in many cases, so there is no need to spiritualize scripture. Just read what it says and believe what it says.

But, who or what is the beast that the woman sits on exactly? What do the seven heads represent exactly? Can you easily figure that out just from what is written? Are those things explicitly spelled out for us or do we need spiritual discernment to understand them?

Well, there are 144,000 virgin males from 12 tribes of Israel that are the first fruits of a harvest. The choice is to believe what God says or use your spiritual discernment and come up with something different. I'm going with what God says. You can discern what you want.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Scripture does explain scripture in many cases, so there is no need to spiritualize scripture. Just read what it says and believe what it says.

So, tell me who or what the beast represents exactly, what the seven heads of the beast represent exactly, what the ten horns represent exactly and what the woman who rides the beast represents exactly. If all we need to do is read what it says, then I'm sure you must know exactly what all of those things represent. So, enlighten me.

Well, there are 144,000 virgin males from 12 tribes of Israel that are the first fruits of a harvest. The choice is to believe what God says or use your spiritual discernment and come up with something different. I'm going with what God says. You can discern what you want.

So, within the most highly symbolic book in the entire Bible, there is somehow no chance that this could be understood in a symbolic way? I see. Your approach is....interesting.

 

[The Light]

So, tell me who or what the beast represents exactly,

The beast is the beast of the sea. The beast of sea is Nimrod who was and is not and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit. He has the deadly wound of the sword and will live. He is the first king and also will be the eighth king.........as the eighth king is of the seven. He is the king of Babylon and the Assyrian

Revelation 17
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

what the seven heads of the beast represent exactly,

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

Revelation 17
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

what the ten horns represent exactly

The ten horns are 10 kings, which receive power for one hour with the beast. This is a world government.

Revelation 17
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

and what the woman who rides the beast represents exactly.

The woman is the Holy Mother Church, the Church of Rome. She is arrayed in purple and scarlet, and decked with gold and precious stones and has a gold cup in her hand.

Revelation 17
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

If all we need to do is read what it says, then I'm sure you must know exactly what all of those things represent. So, enlighten me.

Okay.

So, within the most highly symbolic book in the entire Bible, there is somehow no chance that this could be understood in a symbolic way? I see. Your approach is....interesting.

Just read what the Word says.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The beast is the beast of the sea. The beast of sea is Nimrod who was and is not and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit. He has the deadly wound of the sword and will live. He is the first king and also will be the eighth king.........as the eighth king is of the seven. He is the king of Babylon and the Assyrian

Revelation 17
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

I thought you interpreted scripture according to what is written? Nowhere is what you're saying written in scripture. Nimrod will not be resurrected from the dead. Only God can resurrect the dead and He will not be resurrecting Nimrod from the dead. Why would He do that? It's total nonsense to believe that.

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

Revelation 17
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

LOL. I said to tell me EXACTLY what the seven heads represent. So, what exactly do they represent? What do the seven mountains represent? Where is that written?

The ten horns are 10 kings, which receive power for one hour with the beast. This is a world government.

Revelation 17
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

LOL. I said to tell me EXACTLY what the ten horns represent. Where is that written?

The woman is the Holy Mother Church, the Church of Rome. She is arrayed in purple and scarlet, and decked with gold and precious stones and has a gold cup in her hand.

Revelation 17
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

LOL. Where is that written? Seeing similarities between the RCC and Babylon does not make the woman Babylon the RCC.

Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

How can the RCC be "the hold of EVERY foul spirit, and a cage of EVERY unclean and hateful bird"? Are there not also foul spirits in Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and all other false religions, cults and philosophies?

Okay.

You did not enlighten me at all.

Just read what the Word says.

LOL. Apparently, that alone isn't enough since it has led you to many false conclusions. I guess we can just ignore when Paul says we need spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:9-16)? We can just read the Word like we read the newspaper?

 

[ewq1938]

If the seals are opened, who is the Antichrist? If the seals are opened, then the great tribulation is already over. If the seals are opened then Jesus has already come and the gathering from heaven and earth has already happened.

No, all this is wrong because you wrongly think the seals are events happening rather than previews of future events. Theya re just a version of what happened in Matthew 24 where the events were described but did not happen at that time. The seals are the same.

The seals have not been opened.


Right. Matthew 24 contains the 1st 6 seals. They are not opened brother.

John saw a vision of the seals. The seals are not opened. When the seals are actually opened the event will happen.

No, the events don't happen just like it was in Matthew 24.

The verbal prophecy from Jesus contains the 1st six seals. Are you unable to see that Jesus returns at the 6th seal.

Are you unable to see that the 6th seal is future events that happen at the 7th trump?

The signs of the sun, moon and stars are a timestamp that tells us that the coming of Jesus for the gathering from heaven and earth occurs at the 6th seal.

Not occurs. It's just a vision of the future.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Both speak of what happens at the 7th trump.

Well first off, the seals are not opened.

They are all opened. They have to be before the end times events happen. Always, always would an important letter be read BEFORE the events it speaks of happen.

When they are opened the events will occur as each seal is opened.

Why would you think that I would think that the events happened when Christ sat on the mount. He was prophesying a future event. The seals are not opened.

Because the seals are the same thing! Jesus is still prophesying a future event regarding the seals.

The trumpets have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the first six seals. The trumpets are in the 7th seal which is the one year wrath of God.

When Jesus returns at the 6th seal, He comes for a harvest.

He doesn't go anywhere after opening it. The time to go anywhere is the 7th trump, which is the timeframe of the events the 6th seal described.

 

[The Light]

I thought you interpreted scripture according to what is written?

I certainly attempt to.

Nowhere is what you're saying written in scripture.

You might try Isaiah 14 to point you in the right direction. Isaiah 14 is about Nimrod.

Nimrod will not be resurrected from the dead. Only God can resurrect the dead and He will not be resurrecting Nimrod from the dead.

Can you explain how there are seven kings and the eighth king is of the seven?

Can you explain how the beast was and is not and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit. Or that the beast was and is not and yet is?

Revelation 17
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Why would He do that? It's total nonsense to believe that.

I guess you don't understand the warning that Jesus gave in Matthew 24.

LOL. I said to tell me EXACTLY what the seven heads represent. So, what exactly do they represent? What do the seven mountains represent? Where is that written?

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman siteth. The woman is the Holy Mother Chruch. You ought to be able to see where she sits.

Revelation 17
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

LOL. I said to tell me EXACTLY what the ten horns represent. Where is that written?

The ten horns are ten kings. They have not received their kingdom yet so I can't point them out to you. I won't be around when their kingdom is formed so I will not be able to identify them for you at that time.

Revelation 17
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

LOL. Where is that written? Seeing similarities between the RCC and Babylon does not make the woman Babylon the RCC.

You really don't understand what is about to happen do you?

Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

How can the RCC be "the hold of EVERY foul spirit, and a cage of EVERY unclean and hateful bird"? Are there not also foul spirits in Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and all other false religions, cults and philosophies?

Do you even understand what those religions are and where they originated?

You did not enlighten me at all.

Eyes to see is a requirement as well as ears to hear.

LOL. Apparently, that alone isn't enough since it has led you to many false conclusions.

Can you identify any of my false conclusions? You really have absolutely no idea what is getting ready to happen.

I guess we can just ignore when Paul says we need spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:9-16)? We can just read the Word like we read the newspaper?

I think you might need to study Isaiah 14 for STARTERS. And understand Jesus' warning in Matthew 24.

 

[The Light]

LOL. I said to tell me EXACTLY what the seven heads represent. So, what exactly do they represent? What do the seven mountains represent? Where is that written?


LOL. I said to tell me EXACTLY what the ten horns represent. Where is that written?


LOL. Where is that written? Seeing similarities between the RCC and Babylon does not make the woman Babylon the RCC.

LOL. Apparently, that alone isn't enough since it has led you to many false conclusions. I guess we can just ignore when Paul says we need spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:9-16)? We can just read the Word like we read the newspaper?

I see you were unwilling to address my last post. Or is it unable?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I see you were unwilling to address my last post. Or is it unable?

I address many different posts, so stop being a narcissist while acting like I should give yours the priority over all others. I've already made my point and nothing you said refutes it. Not everything written is explained as to what exactly it means, so we need spiritual discernment. If everything is understood just as written with no spiritual discernment required then you would be able to tell me exactly who the ten horns represent right now regardless of whether they have appeared yet or not. And, all you're doing is guessing about what the other things mean and you are NOT taking the text as written. So, my point has been made and you;ve done nothing to refute it. If you disagree, so be it. I can't stop you from being delusional.

 

[The Light]

I address many different posts, so stop being a narcissist while acting like I should give yours the priority over all others. I've already made my point and nothing you said refutes it. Not everything written is explained as to what exactly it means, so we need spiritual discernment. If everything is understood just as written with no spiritual discernment required then you would be able to tell me exactly who the ten horns represent right now regardless of whether they have appeared yet or not.

Any time your spiritual discernment requires you to change the Word of God, you are discerning nothing and are only creating a problem that leads to other problems in understanding.

The ten kings represent a one world government. The thing that hath been is that which shall be and that which is done is that which shall be done, and there is no new thing under the sun. Nimrod is the sun BTW, in the Babylonian religions.

And, all you're doing is guessing about what the other things mean and you are NOT taking the text as written. So, my point has been made and you;ve done nothing to refute it. If you disagree, so be it. I can't stop you from being delusional.

You said my claims where not possible. I would like to see your spiritual discernment in action.

Can you explain how there are seven kings and the eighth king is of the seven?

Can you explain how the beast was and is not and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit. Or that the beast was and is not and yet is?

 

[PinSeeker]

I'm going to join in the conversation (if it can be called that) here. <smile> Whether I stay in long I will determine later; for now I'll keep my options open... <smile>

Any time your spiritual discernment requires you to change the Word of God, you are discerning nothing and are only creating a problem that leads to other problems in understanding.

The ten kings represent a one world government.

I think you mean the ten horns, here, The Light. So yeah, the number ten goes back through Revelation 17:7 and 13:1 to Daniel 7:7, 24. But the Beast of Revelation cannot simply be identified with the fourth beast of Daniel. Rather, he is a composite, summing up characteristics of all four of Daniel’s beasts. In Revelation the ten horns are kingly confederates of the Beast. In view of Revelation 16:12, 14, 16, Revelation 19:19, and Revelation 20:8, the political powers beyond the borders of the Roman Empire are most directly in mind. The picture rises beyond the limitations of Rome and opens up a picture of the final battle in which the Beast will enlist large-scale assistance. The Beast, as an antichrist figure, enlists many other powers who cooperate with him. Together they undertake a final, climactic battle against the Lord and his Anointed (Psalm 2:2; Acts 4:26). The details of the battle unfold in Revelation 19:11-21.

The thing that hath been is that which shall be and that which is done is that which shall be done, and there is no new thing under the sun. Nimrod is the sun BTW, in the Babylonian religions.

Ugh. <smile>

As in other cases in Revelation and in apocalyptic literature, angels explain the significance of aspects of mysterious visions (v. 7; cf. Revelation 7:13-14; Revelation 10:9-11; Daniel 10:10-12:4; Zechariah 1:9; 1:18-21; 2:1-2; 4:4-7; etc.). The Beast "once was, now is not, and will come" (v. 8): The description is a counterfeit of the sovereignty of God, which is proclaimed in Revelation 1:4, 8 and Revelation 4:8. “Now is not” indicates that persecution is now at an ebb, but with rise with renewed intensity in the future, which is along the same lines of Revelation 20:1-6 ~ Jesus is the "angel Who came down from heaven" and "seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years," bound from "deceiving the nations until the thousand years (are) ended" and will then "be released for a little while." The Beast of Revelation 17 represents a repeated pattern of persecution, as in the four successive beasts of Daniel 7. As in Revelation 13:8, the Beast captures the allegiance of all except the elect, those whose names have been written in the book of life. The names were written from the creation of the world, indicating the absolute sovereignty of God and his control over salvation from the beginning. It's certainly not Nimrod. <smile>

Can you explain how there are seven kings and the eighth king is of the seven?

As you probably know, Rome was known as the city built on seven hills. At the time that John wrote, Rome was the principal embodiment of Babylon ~ the worldly city. Who are the seven kings, five of whom have fallen? Most believe Revelation to have been written in about 95 A.D., but according to one interpretation, if Revelation was written in about 67 A.D., these five may be the first five Roman emperors, beginning with Julius Caesar. The sixth is then Nero, the currently (in 67 A.D) reigning emperor. But in that case the history of the Empire subsequent to Nero presents nothing but problems. After Nero came emperors Galba, Otho, and Vitellius, in 68 A.D., the “year of three emperors,” We can't simply ignore them or skip them in order to arrive at Vespasian (69-79 A.D.) and the time of the fall of Jerusalem (70 A.D.). The sixth head is clearly near the end and is to be succeeded by at most two more manifestations. So this whole line of reasoning is off track. The five who have fallen simply represents an indefinite number of previous emperors. The presence of the sixth indicates in symbolic fashion that Christians are near the end, but not quite there. The Beast itself is an eighth king (v. 11). Since there are only seven heads, the verse is not claiming that the Beast is an eighth head; rather, the Beast symbolizes, in final manifestation, a power analogous to that of the seven.

Can you explain how the beast was and is not and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit. Or that the beast was and is not and yet is?

See above. In a nutshell, again "once was" and "now is not" is saying, as in Revelation 20, that he was once able to deceive the nations ~ though only under the authority of God; it suited God's eternal plan to allow Satan to prevent the spread of the Gospel beyond the nation of Israel before Jesus came ~ but now cannot prevent said spread of the Gospel to all nations ~ he is bound from doing so, thus Jesus's commission of His disciples and by extension us in Matthew 28:19-20... because of the coming of Jesus to "free the captives" and His work of salvation on the cross opening the Gospel and redemption and salvation to people of every tongue, tribe, and nation... and "will come," meaning that he will be "released for a little while" after God's millennium, which is the current age.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Any time your spiritual discernment requires you to change the Word of God, you are discerning nothing and are only creating a problem that leads to other problems in understanding.

I'm not changing anything. Do you deny that spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit is ever needed to help understand the Word of God?

1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

You seem to interpret scripture like the natural man by using nothing but your own human wisdom. Paul taught that the words he spoke, which were the same words he wrote in scripture were "not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.".

The ten kings represent a one world government. The thing that hath been is that which shall be and that which is done is that which shall be done, and there is no new thing under the sun. Nimrod is the sun BTW, in the Babylonian religions.

Nimrod would have to be resurrected and only God can resurrect the dead. Why would God want to resurrected Nimrod?

You said my claims where not possible.

Because of what I said above. Why would God want to resurrect Nimrod?

I would like to see your spiritual discernment in action.

I don't claim to have all of the answers about every single thing written in the book, especially when it comes to things like this. Why do you think you understand every single detail in the book? You have nothing more to learn? Is the book of Revelation just like a children's book to you?

Can you explain how there are seven kings and the eighth king is of the seven?

I believe the seven heads represent seven world empires/kingdoms. John said that five had fallen, one is, and one was yet to come. The one that "is" at the time was the Roman empire. Those world empires/kingdoms up to that point were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. Despite one of the heads existing at the time that book was written, the beast was said to be in the bottomless pit and I believe that coincides with Satan being bound because of the gospel being preached throughout the world. When Satan and the beast are loosed, then the seventh kingdom takes power for a short time. The eighth is of the seven in the sense that it is a truly global empire/kingdom and not based in a certain city or country like the previous world empires.

Can you explain how the beast was and is not and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit. Or that the beast was and is not and yet is?

The beast gets its power from the dragon, Satan, according to Revelation 13:4. So, the beast, which is Satan's kingdom that takes different forms over the years, being in the bottomless pit implies that Satan is in the bottomless pit at the same time. But, that isnt literal. It's a spiritual restraint preventing Satan and his beast kingdom from keeping the gospel from being preached throughout the world.

I don't expect you to agree with me about these things, but I'm willing to admit that what these things like the beast, the seven heads and the ten horns are exactly is not spelled out to us as evidenced by the fact that they are symbolic. It's intended for us to spiritually discern what they represent. Otherwise, the book would contain all literal, straightforward text instead of a great deal of symbolic text.

 

[The Light]

The sixth head is clearly near the end and is to be succeeded by at most two more manifestations. So this whole line of reasoning is off track. The five who have fallen simply represents an indefinite number of previous emperors. The presence of the sixth indicates in symbolic fashion that Christians are near the end, but not quite there. The Beast itself is an eighth king (v. 11).

These verses have nothing to do with Roman emperors, save the 6th king which is the Roman empire under the Ceasars.

Since there are only seven heads, the verse is not claiming that the Beast is an eighth head; rather, the Beast symbolizes, in final manifestation, a power analogous to that of the seven.

The heads are mountains. And there are 7 kings................................................

Revelation 17
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

And the eighth king is of the seven.

 

[The Light]

I'm not changing anything.

I don't think this is correct. You change the 144,000 from the 12 tribes that are firstfruits. This negates all the truth that God has given us.

You change the order of the seals, as you do not recognize that the 6th seal is completed before the 7th seal opened.

You seem to interpret scripture like the natural man by using nothing but your own human wisdom. Paul taught that the words he spoke, which were the same words he wrote in scripture were "not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.".

Oh I use spiritual discernment. I discern that a wise man accepts the written Word of God as God gave it to us. The reason so many are confused is that they change the Word of God and that change leads to further false conclusions.

I don't claim to have all of the answers about every single thing written in the book, especially when it comes to things like this. Why do you think you understand every single detail in the book? You have nothing more to learn? Is the book of Revelation just like a children's book to you?

I don't think I understand every single detail. I am constantly learning. On top of that, my beliefs are not static. If I learn something I will adjust my beliefs. I see very few people that change their views even when there is undeniable Biblical proof. That is a big puzzle to me. It appears doctrine is more important than truth.

I believe the seven heads represent seven world empires/kingdoms.

The seven heads are 7 mountains on which woman sitteth.

And there are 7 kings, and yes they do represent world kingdoms and all of these kingdoms are under the sun. Nimrod is the sun in the Babylonian religion.

When Adolph tried to be the 7th king, he used one of the ancient sun signs, the swastika. Every world empire was under the sun.

For instance.
The Egyptian Pharoh was Ra, the sun, God on earth.
Nebuchadnezzar was considered the reincarnated Nimrod, God on earth.
Alexander the Great was considered Son of Ra, God on earth.
Ceasar was considered God on earth
All under the sun.

John said that five had fallen, one is, and one was yet to come. The one that "is" at the time was the Roman empire. Those world empires/kingdoms up to that point were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. Despite one of the heads existing at the time that book was written, the beast was said to be in the bottomless pit and I believe that coincides with Satan being bound because of the gospel being preached throughout the world. When Satan and the beast are loosed, then the seventh kingdom takes power for a short time. The eighth is of the seven in the sense that it is a truly global empire/kingdom and not based in a certain city or country like the previous world empires.

I think that Nimrod was the first king of the 1st world empire.

The eighth is of the 7 means that the eighth king has to be one of the seven kings.

The beast gets its power from the dragon, Satan, according to Revelation 13:4. So, the beast, which is Satan's kingdom that takes different forms over the years, being in the bottomless pit implies that Satan is in the bottomless pit at the same time. But, that isnt literal. It's a spiritual restraint preventing Satan and his beast kingdom from keeping the gospel from being preached throughout the world.

I think Nimrod is literally in the pit. I'm going to make another post after this attempting to answer the Nimrod questions.

I don't expect you to agree with me about these things, but I'm willing to admit that what these things like the beast, the seven heads and the ten horns are exactly is not spelled out to us as evidenced by the fact that they are symbolic. It's intended for us to spiritually discern what they represent. Otherwise, the book would contain all literal, straightforward text instead of a great deal of symbolic text.

When something is symbolic the text seems to identify this.

 

[The Light]

Nimrod would have to be resurrected and only God can resurrect the dead. Why would God want to resurrected Nimrod?


Because of what I said above. Why would God want to resurrect Nimrod?

God would not want to resurrect Nimrod. But man is evil.

In 2003 the tomb of Gilgamesh was discovered in the secret burial chamber. Gilgamesh is Nimrod. Weeks later we had boots on the ground in Iraq, looking for those imaginary weapons of mass destruction. It has been reported that the first thing we secured was that tomb and then also took thousands of ancient stone tablets and artifacts from the Iraq Museum. We returned many of these artifacts over time.

Groups such as the Masons are looking for their savior, and it's not Jesus the Christ. On the back of the dollar bill is the eye or horus, the false savior, one of the horns of the beast of the earth. They are also looking for the return of Nimrod, who is the beast of the sea who had the deadly wound of the sword and will live. How many mummy movies have they made? Satan always tells you what they are going to do so when it happens the light goes on and you believe. They have the DNA of Nimrod. You should be able to put the rest of the puzzle together.

In Matthew 24 Jesus says

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Jesus gives a direct warning to the Jews. When they say he is in the desert go not forth. He is in the secret chambers, believe it not.

Discernment is understanding how the Word of God applies. Discernment is not understanding how to change the Word of God.

 

[ewq1938]

the 6th seal is completed before the 7th seal opened.

Seals are opened, not completed. Like scrolls and seals of the past, usually military/war related, the scroll of the battle plans cannot be known/read until the seals are opened/broken open. This entire concept is about knowledge of what is coming, never what happens right then and there.