The Covering Dynamic

[Zao is life]

Agree
This thread is about identifying those man-made 'coverings' and how to remove them.
Without prejudice on the believer/saint BUT with prejudice against the 'coverings'.

I realize that, and good for you. I'm glad for threads like this. There are a LOT of pastors/teachers still using the words "tribulation" or "great tribulation" when they "teach" about the coming wrath of God upon the world. It's one of those things that I find gut-wrenching each time I hear it.

But at least some of us know to switch off at that point to whatever the person says after that.

 

[Zao is life]

Enoch was in the midst of tribulation = fallen angels were on earth.

God took Enoch and will send him back to finish his witness against the fallen angels = Revelation

Tribulation entered the world the moment sin took over.

.. and if Enoch is one of the two witnesses, they will be martyred by the beast 3.5 days before the resurrection. Those who are still alive and remain on the earth will be raptured with them only at that point.

I said "if Enoch" only because I don't know who the two witnesses are/will be. I can believe Elijah may be one of them (but I don't know).

 

[Zao is life]

It has been at least 7,000 years since satan's rebellion with his angels and yet they still roam free.

Very interesting. I'd like to know where you got the 7,000 digit from. Recently, not too long ago, I asked (myself) how long it had been between God breathing life into Adam and the fall of Adam. And the only number that came to mind was, "a thousand years". But there isn't anything in the Bible to tell me so, except the statements about one day being as a thousand years with God in the Psalms and 2 Peter 3, so I don't know. But I'm sure the fall couldn't have happened the day after God breathed life into Adam.

 

[Zao is life]

It does not say 144,000 Jewish men are sealed.

Remember that Revelation uses strong symbolism throughout.

Rev ch7
Do not harm the land or sea or trees until we have sealed the foreheads of the servants of our God.”

4And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel:

5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,

from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,

from the tribe of Gad 12,000,

6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,

from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,

from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,

7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,

from the tribe of Levi 12,000,

from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,

8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,

from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,

and from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb

Yes. 10 tribes ceased being a nation before God when they were scattered by Assyria, and they never returned. That's "120,000" non-Jews.

They were scattered among the nations, and their descendants intermarried with Gentiles to the point where it's impossible today to trace and positively identify any human on earth as being a pure genetic descendant of one of the "120.000" non-Jewish tribes.

Yet they are now called the sons of the living God, and their number is as the sand of the sea. Romans 9:24-27.

So Gentiles who believe in Christ are included in that number. Jacob (Israel) also told Joseph the same thing, for those who will have it. He even used the words "fullness of the Gentiles".

 

[David in NJ]

Very interesting. I'd like to know where you got the 7,000 digit from. Recently, not too long ago, I asked (myself) how long it had been between God breathing life into Adam and the fall of Adam. And the only number that came to mind was, "a thousand years". But there isn't anything in the Bible to tell me so, except the statements about one day being as a thousand years with God in the Psalms and 2 Peter 3, so I don't know. But I'm sure the fall couldn't have happened the day after God breathed life into Adam.

General ball-park figure that is not a 'proven' time frame.
Assuming at least 5,000 years before Christ and now 2,000.

It could be 10,000 years???

The amount of exact years is known by the Father/Son/Holy Spirit.
Personally, i do not see it as something pertinent for Godly Living = "it is the Spirit that gives Life"

 

[No Pre-TB]

No we aren't.

But if you think these verses say otherwise, why not post the passage, with some context, and indicate the part that says that we who are gentiles are also Israelites. Would you like to do that?

Much love!

I supplied the verses and you are free to look them up and their context.

As I stated, Romans 2:29, Romans 9:6-8, John 8:39, Galatians 6:16, Galatians 4:23 and 28, Genesis 21:12 with Hebrews 11:18, Romans 9:25-27, Romans 11:16-17, John 10:16, Ephesians 2:12; 14; 19, Philippians 3:3, Isaiah 44:5, Ezekiel 47:22-23, Hosea 1:10-11 just to name a few. We were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and we are no longer strangers but citizens.

But I'll post one here and commentaries on it because my word is never good enough when it is alone.

Galatians 6
14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Who was the Israel of God Paul was talking about to the Galatians?
By the “Israel of God” is here meant the “spiritual Israel;” not converts from Judaism alone, but all who prove their real affinity to Abraham by a faith like Abraham’s. (Comp. Galatians 3:7-9; Galatians 3:14; Galatians 3:29; Romans 4:11-12; Romans 9:6-8.)

And upon the Israel of God - The true church of God; all who are his true worshippers; see the note at Romans 2:28-29; Romans 9:6, note.

Upon the Israel of God; upon the true Israelites, whom he calleth the Israel of God; hereby intimating and confirming the truth of what he had said, Romans 2:28,29, and what our Saviour had said of Nathanael, John 1:47, calling him an Israelite indeed, because in him was no guile; and establishing a distinction between such as were so really, and those who were only Israelites in name, because descended from Jacob, to whom God gave the name of Israel. Hereby also checking the vanity of the Jews, who gloried in the name of Israelites, and thought there could no water come out of the fountains of Israel which God would cast away. The apostle doth not promise, or prophesy, mercy and peace to all Israelites, but only to the Israel of God; that is, to believers, that received and embraced Jesus Christ offered in the gospel.

And upon the Israel of God; as pointing out the Israel, by way of emphasis, the Israel, or Israelites indeed, the spiritual Israel, as distinct from Israel according to the flesh; see 1 Corinthians 10:18.

 

[marks]

16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Peace be on them, and upon the Israel of God.

Like saying, peace be on this people, and upon those people.

Much love!

 

[No Pre-TB]

Peace be on them, and upon the Israel of God.

Like saying, peace be on this people, and upon those people.

Much love!

peace be on them, and mercy] This is probably a prayer, ‘May peace be on them’; though the original allows us to render, ‘Peace rests on them’. Peace in the soul, because of reconciliation with God. Peace with man through Him Who is ‘our peace’. But mercy also, as needed by sinners.

and upon the Israel of God] Are ‘the Israel of God’ distinct from those who walk according to the Apostle’s rule, or are we to regard the particle ‘and’ as epexegetical, and equivalent to ‘yea, upon &c.’? The answer will depend on the exact meaning which is attached to the expression, ‘the Israel of God’. If it means those ‘who are not of the circumcision only, but who walk in the steps’ of Abraham’s faith, i.e. Jews who have been really converted to Christianity, we must suppose St Paul to have had Gentile converted in his mind in the preceding verses. It seems better, however, to regard the expression as intended to sum up the ‘as many as’ in a phrase which is closely identified with the whole argument of the Epistle, ‘If ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise’. These are ‘the Israel of God’, whether Jews or Gentiles, for ‘the Jew is he who is one inwardly in the spirit, not in the letter’.

It is the same people, the Church of God.

 

[covenantee]

Peace be on them, and upon the Israel of God.

Like saying, peace be on this people, and upon those people.

Much love!

All the same saints.

Galatians 6:16 Greek

2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj

"c. it joins to partitive words the general notion; so that it is equivalent to and in general, and in a word, in short: ὁ Πέτρος καί οἱ ἀπόστολοι, Acts 5:29; οἱ ἀρχιερεῖς (καί οἱ πρεσβύτεροι Rec.) καί τό συνέδριον ὅλον, Matthew 26:59; καί δικαιώμασι σαρκός, Hebrews 9:10 Rec. Tr brackets WH marginal reading; καί ἐπί τόν Ἰσραήλ τοῦ Θεοῦ, Galatians 6:16"

i.e.: And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, in short, upon the Israel of God.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

IMO, we  all have veils or coverings over the whole rightly divided truth of God's word because we remain in this flesh!

I have found over many years of following Christ and his New Testament that we cannot convince another of a truth that may have been revealed unto us. It must be revealed by the Spirit otherwise we receive this admonition, "that's not what it says, or that's not what has been revealed to me in the word".

We must commit ourselves to transparency with God for he has already declared," there is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed"
What we find hard in this life is to admit that ,"I do not know it all"!

Few truly know what humbleness is. It is not cowardice but it is to admit, hey I may be wrong.....let's take another look at that !

Lord, remove any veil or covering in my flesh that keeps your Spirit or your truth at a distance from my learning of you. Amen!