THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN

[Enoch111]

The bible just gives us the highlights...

So pay attention to the highlights and you won't go into flights of fancy. Abel was murdered and Cain was banished. Therefore here is what we see (and not one of these men is called "a son of God":

GENESIS 5
1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:
10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
12 And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel:
13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Had there been any other children by Adam and Eve they would have been listed ABOVE Seth (according to your theory).

 

[CoreIssue]

So pay attention to the highlights and you won't go into flights of fancy. Abel was murdered and Cain was banished. Therefore here is what we see (and not one of these men is called "a son of God":

Luke 3:38 New International Version (NIV)
38 the son of Enosh,

the son of Seth, the son of Adam,

the son of God.

 

[Naomi25]

Yes, that is what it says, however we these parameters in Gen. 3:16 - "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."
If Eve hadn't had any children previously this curse would be meaningless as she wouldn't have had anything to compare it with and how can you multiply something from nothing? I believe she and Adam had hundreds or thousands of kids before the fall, as they were in an eternal state. We are only told of Cain because he was the first child born after the fall, when time and death began. Understanding this, answers the mysteries of who Cain's "others" were and who the sons of God were, children born before the fall.

Whoa! Wait! I'm sorry. I don't necessarily agree with those who see these 'men of reknown' as Angels, but this? Adam and Eve having "possibly hundreds" of kids before the fall. Assumption city...You've taken a phrase given to Eve as her punishment, and made wild leaps and jumps from it. The text in no way gives you leave to assume that Eve had previously given birth. None whatsoever!
Being told that something is now going to cause you pain has meaning even if you haven't previously experienced it in it's 'painfree' circumstances. If I told you that tomorrow you were going to do something for the first time...I don't know you, but let's just say skydiving...you might be excited about the new experience. If I then told you that the experience would be extremely painful for you because you sinned, would that punishment mean less because you'd never done it before? Before when it had been just 'fun'? You still had to go tomorrow, for the first time, it was still going to be horribly painful. You see my point....


So, I think your hypothesis is off in almost every regard.

 

[Enoch111]

Luke 3:38... the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

And do you know why ONLY ADAM is called "the son of God"? Because Adam -- just like the angels -- was a DIRECT CREATION of God. None of the others in Adam's line are called "sons of God". Indeed none of the OT saints are ever called "sons of God".

It is only when we come to the New Testament that those who are children of God through the New Birth are called "sons of God": But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Jn 1:12,13).

What many try to do is make a mishmash of the Scriptures in order to dodge the plain teaching that evil angels -- called "the sons of God" --cohabited with human women and produced monstrosities -- giants (Nephilim). Gigantism (acromegaly) is a genetic anomaly, and these "sons of God" are called "the angels which sinned" or "the angels which kept not their first estate". Because of unnatural sexual unions, they were consigned to the underworld prison called Tartarus, and they are literally *chained in darkness* until their day of judgment.

 

[CoreIssue]

And do you know why ONLY ADAM is called "the son of God"? Because Adam -- just like the angels -- was a DIRECT CREATION of God. None of the others in Adam's line are called "sons of God". Indeed none of the OT saints are ever called "sons of God".

It is only when we come to the New Testament that those who are children of God through the New Birth are called "sons of God": But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Jn 1:12,13).

What many try to do is make a mishmash of the Scriptures in order to dodge the plain teaching that evil angels -- called "the sons of God" --cohabited with human women and produced monstrosities -- giants (Nephilim). Gigantism (acromegaly) is a genetic anomaly, and these "sons of God" are called "the angels which sinned" or "the angels which kept not their first estate". Because of unnatural sexual unions, they were consigned to the underworld prison called Tartarus, and they are literally *chained in darkness* until their day of judgment.

You're making a lot of assumptions.

Nowhere in the Bible is in the angel called male. And if there were that means is also female angels which the Bible never says. And if males and females there are children.

Yet the Bible says we will be like the Angels neither male or female.

And there are Nephilim throughout the Old Testament. Whole nations of them.

Enoch lived pre-flood yet they are listed many times post flood.

This also means the fallen angels were chained and in the pit before the flood even by your claims.

The Bible doesn't say the fallen angels are there because of sex, but because they followed Satan and his effort to replace God.

And who says only born-again are sons of God? Adam proves you wrong. After all, when Moses wrote this he had already sinned.

Plus the KJV says sons of God in many places where the majority translations say Angels.

There is no plane teaching in the Bible fallen Angels had sex with women. That is a mistaken interpretation.

 

[Trekson]

I myself see nothing in the scriptures that from the time God created Adam and to the rebellion or the fall into sin of Adam and Eve, that tens of thousands of years past. This is spectulation.It's dangerous to speculate on the scriptures. We need to have scriptural evidence on something when we talk of the scriptures. Don't get me wrong, I agree with reasoning on the scriptures, but we still need to have some kind of scriptural evidence to back up what we're reasoning on.

Sometimes to get the deeper truths you have to see what the bible doesn't say in relation to what it does. Half a fact, is not a fact.

 

[Trekson]

The fallen angels were and are bound in the Pit per Jude.

So where do you think the bazillion demons, evil spirits, etc. plaguing the world come from? They are cast out angels of different rankings.

 

[Trekson]

And do you know why ONLY ADAM is called "the son of God"? Because Adam -- just like the angels -- was a DIRECT CREATION of God. None of the others in Adam's line are called "sons of God". Indeed none of the OT saints are ever called "sons of God". None of the others mentioned in the bible were born before the fall.

It is only when we come to the New Testament that those who are children of God through the New Birth are called "sons of God": But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Jn 1:12,13). Yes, because our sins are forgiven, how much more so would they be called sons if they never sinned in the first place.

What many try to do is make a mishmash of the Scriptures in order to dodge the plain teaching that evil angels -- called "the sons of God" --cohabited with human women and produced monstrosities -- giants (Nephilim). Gigantism (acromegaly) is a genetic anomaly, and these "sons of God" are called "the angels which sinned" or "the angels which kept not their first estate". Because of unnatural sexual unions, they were consigned to the underworld prison called Tartarus, and they are literally *chained in darkness* until their day of judgment.

The Nephilim were already here. Gen. 6:4, they were not "produced" from inter-mating.

 

[Trekson]

Therefore here is what we see (and not one of these men is called "a son of God":

Not really because the "time" and world before the fall, God chose not to share too much. We are only told of things that began after the fall. That would be Adam's "birthday" because that is the day he began to die.

Cain was banished

So who do you think the "others" were that Cain was concerned about? Boogeymen??

 

[Trekson]

So, I think your hypothesis is off in almost every regard.

I agree it's an assumption but there are way too many logical and scientific realities to assume God created the whole universe only 6000 yrs. ago. I believe both young earthers and anti-creationists are also assuming because they are not grounding their beliefs on ALL the facts, just what we are given and why is it so hard to believe, given what little we are, that the answer might be somewhere in the middle?

 

[bbyrd009]

Why do you think it isn't? Maybe that is exactly who the sons of God are and he counts on us to use our brains to figure that out. Or, maybe it's none of our business and we only need to concern ourselves with what God has revealed to us. The world couldn't contain the books about what Christ did and you expect every nuance of creation to be summed up in a couple of chapters. There are so much that we don't know about what God did and didn't do during creation that two worlds couldn't contain them. The bible just gives us the highlights, I believe there are possibly tens of thousands of years between the creation and fall. Do you think that God did such a bad job that they would both fall in such a short time? Personally, I give God a little more credit than that!

nice, you might see that this "Fall" we all believe so strongly in cannot be Quoted either

 

[bbyrd009]

I myself see nothing in the scriptures that from the time God created Adam and to the rebellion or the fall into sin of Adam and Eve, that tens of thousands of years past. This is spectulation.

then it is equally dangerous to assume any time frame I guess.

It's dangerous to speculate on the scriptures.

lol, wadr imo this is usually code for "dangerous to disagree with my interp"

but we still need to have some kind of scriptural evidence to back up what we're reasoning on.

fwiw I am persuaded the Trekson is on the right track there, "Fall" perspective notwithstanding​

 

[bbyrd009]

the son of Seth, the son of Adam,

the son of God.

i'd go with the "as many as..." one for that, to moot the "only Adam" thing, but ya

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

dunno if that means revising our perspective of fallen angels as "sons of God" or not. Seems to me the symbology for them would have to be "daughters," not sons

 

[CoreIssue]

So where do you think the bazillion demons, evil spirits, etc. plaguing the world come from? They are cast out angels of different rankings.

The fallen angels are bound in the pit until the white throne judgment so it is impossible for them to be demons.

Demons are the spirits of the pre-adamic beings who rebelled with Satan in the war in heaven.

The four living creatures at the throne of God in heaven represent the ones who did not rebel. They are flesh therefore they cannot be angels.

 

[CoreIssue]

i'd go with the "as many as..." one for that, to moot the "only Adam" thing, but ya

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

dunno if that means revising our perspective of fallen angels as "sons of God" or not. Seems to me the symbology for them would have to be "daughters," not sons

And remember the KJV uses sons of God liberally where the correct translation is Angel.

And yes, humans can be sons of God.

 

[Trekson]

The four living creatures at the throne of God in heaven represent the ones who did not rebel. They are flesh therefore they cannot be angel

Well, I can't say you're wrong because there is no evidence either way, however just because the four living creatures are different from what we know, doesn't mean they were previously earthlings. Personally, I believe the universe is teeming with life and various creations of God that we will have no clue about until we get to heaven. The bible says, God rested, it doesn't say He gave up creating.

 

[CoreIssue]

Well, I can't say you're wrong because there is no evidence either way, however just because the four living creatures are different from what we know, doesn't mean they were previously earthlings. Personally, I believe the universe is teeming with life and various creations of God that we will have no clue about until we get to heaven. The bible says, God rested, it doesn't say He gave up creating.

That brings up the issues of sin, salvation, the rebellion of Satan and how to explain what will happen to all these other beings when creation is destroyed.

You're actually making it all even more complicated thinking that way.

I can actually see a purpose in the diversity of Angel, pre-adamic and man. I cannot see a purpose in life with spirits on other planets.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Sometimes to get the deeper truths you have to see what the bible doesn't say in relation to what it does. Half a fact, is not a fact.

You can reason all you want. You are still speculating. I choose not to listen to or agree with speculation.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

then it is equally dangerous to assume any time frame I guess.
lol, wadr imo this is usually code for "dangerous to disagree with my interp"

fwiw I am persuaded the Trekson is on the right track there, "Fall" perspective notwithstanding​

You have the right to disagree all you want, but when you have no scriptures to back up what you are saying I'm not going to agree with you. There's nothing in the scriptures that even suggest that tens of thousands of years past from the time Adam was created to the fall into sin. In fact the scriptures say that Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born.

 

[Trekson]

That brings up the issues of sin, salvation, the rebellion of Satan and how to explain what will happen to all these other beings when creation is destroyed.

You're actually making it all even more complicated thinking that way.

I can actually see a purpose in the diversity of Angel, pre-adamic and man. I cannot see a purpose in life with spirits on other planets.

I never said anything about their being spirits or they would have any contact with earth at all. My point was why believe the four living creatures were pre-Adamic beings and not a unique creation by God for whatever purpose He desired?