The Deity of Jesus under attack on this forum.
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Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
Thomas..my Lord and my God
In the new testament, Jesus is often referred to as the Son of God.
However, on a reading of scripture, you may also notice that many others are also called Sons of God. So why is the title ‘Son of God’ so important to Christians and, more specifically, Jesus?
Let’s look at references for Sons of God in the Bible.
1. Human beings, in general, are called ‘Gods children.’ God creates us and sustains us. Just as a human father provides for his family, God also provides for us, though much more in a significant way.
Acts 17:28 (NIV)
‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
2. Spirit beings like the angels are called the Sons of God because God sustains them and cause of their roles in carrying out God’s command.
Job 1:6 (NKJV)
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
3.The nation of Israel is called ‘God’s son.’ The development of the nation of Israel was not like the other nations; God produced it through divine intervention and was, therefore, Israel’s Father.
Exodus 4:22 (NIV)
Then say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son,
King David was called the Son of God because he was put on the throne by God and ruled under God’s authority as God’s representative.
So the phrase the Son of God can have various meanings, but why then do Christians insist on calling Jesus the Son of God?
Jesus is the Son of God in the divine sense by His position in the Trinity.
In the first century, most people thought of the son as someone who carried on the family trade. Sons did not go to college; they did whatever their fathers did. If your father was the butcher, you became butcher, and if your father was a baker, you worked as a baker.
To say that Jesus was the Son of God in this sense would mean to say that He does the work of the Father, and this is what Jesus claimed about Himself.
According to the Bible:
God is the one who raises people from the dead and Jesus claimed He will raise the dead at the resurrection.
God is the final judge of all mankind and Jesus tells the disciples that He will be the final judge of all people.
God is the only one who could ultimately forgive sins and Jesus openly forgave the sins of people who approached Him while on earth.
So Jesus does the works that the Father does, and the only way someone can do the same job as the Father is if He shares the same nature and attributes as the father. Jesus claimed to have this unique relationship with the father.
Matthew 11:27 (NKJV)
All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Because Jesus is the supreme Son of God, He is the best example of all the above-mentioned ‘Sons of God.’
The Spirit beings are called Sons of God, but Jesus is the highest spiritual being. Human beings are called Sons of God, but Jesus was the greatest human being that ever lived. The Davidic kings were called Sons of God, but Jesus was the Messiah, the eternal Davidic king. The nation of Israel was called the Son of God, but Jesus is the promised Messiah (Savior) of Israel and the whole world.
JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD IN THE DIVINE SENSE BY HIS POSITION IN THE TRINITY.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
J.
Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
The least people can do is be honest like the RCC and say it makes no sense. I accept that reason over an illogical explanation
Give me your 'logical' commentary Christo, with scripture references.
J.
Still baffled that Christ Jesus is God?
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
..yet at the same time ho Huios?
1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1Jn 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
1Jn 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1Jn 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
J.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
The Father did not become a human being. The Word of God by whom all created things came into being did. He is subject to the Father as a human, but the difference between Him and you is that He subjected Himself willingly, but you ARE subject to God, period.
@Cristo Rei Note: The Word is living. The Word of God is the source of (eternal) life. In Him is (eternal) life (John 1:4; John 6:51). Only in God is there (eternal) life.
The Word of God IS God.
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Why is it so hard for you to see?? None of the points of scripture you quoted negate Christ's deity. They are all true, and yet....HE is STILL GOD ...the I Am ...the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last ...the Almighty ....just like the Word says!!!
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I am so so blessed by your posts as well as @Johann's .....and grateful you're here on the forum. If nothing else, it lets me know one more person knows and believes the simple truth of the Gospel. God bless you.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
God bless you too.
There's a lesson for all who belongs to Christ in these threads of Johann's, and there is a story behind what I'm saying:
So in "The Chosen" series (which is basically a historical novel that remains 100% true to the gospel and to the person of Christ), a lot of stuff gets added, and it makes things very real. So one day the disciples are arguing with one another, angrily. Just after this Simon walks up to Jesus and in order to motivate a request Simon's about to ask of Jesus, he says, "We're all unified behind you" (or something to that effect) .
"Unified"? Jesus asks, questioningly.
After a few seconds of hesitation, Simon answers, "Well we all agree on YOU".
This is what the saints need to bear in mind. I've gotten into heated exchanges with people in the Eschatology Board, but when it comes to things that are foundational to gospel truth, we must be unified (because we need it).
God bless you too
And I am blessed to have fellow co-workers with me in this battlefield, such as yourself and we have, by the grace of our Father, another member, @Fullness of the Gentiles/haGoyim also in the yoke, the Strong ox (Jesus) leading, the others have fallen by the wayside, I'm afraid.
This is the legacy I want to leave when I'm gone, that Yochanan was a radical, UNCOMMON Christian standing for the cause of our blessed Lord and great God Jesus Christ.
Shalom to you and family.
J.
@TLHKAJ Reminds me of Paul in 2 Corinthians 11.3, where he speaks of 'the simplicity that is in Christ'.
Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
God said
"THIS
IS
MY
SON"
He didn't say this is God or the father or anything else. God meant exactly what he said
God said
"THIS
IS
MY
SON"
Any attempt to twist that is against Gods words
"THIS
IS
MY
SON"
He didn't say this is God or the father or anything else. God meant exactly what he said
God said
"THIS
IS
MY
SON"
Any attempt to twist that is against Gods words
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
True. It's called jehova worship. They have made a pagan cult of Jesus as superhero: the New Herakles.
Marvel Comics is at least fun to watch and worth paying money for.
But these people are serious pagan holdovers. Although, Paganism is only on the rise again, along with the wiccans, satanists, new agers, etc...
Other than that, I would say yes, you're going to hell. Smiled and walked away.
I no longer subscribe to the notion of having to rhetorically deflect idiots, who are not serious about God, Jesus Christ, nor Scripture.
I.e. Jesus lovers don't have to justify their loving Jesus Christ, Savior, and Son as we do the Father.
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Just be willing to accept ALL of scripture and not discount them to form a doctrine around this one account. ALL His Word fits together as a WHOLE PICTURE. Otherwise, you end up with a skewed doctrine. I have no problem with the truth of the verse you keep posting. It fits perfectly with the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I always love to hear idolators quoting Scripture, with their idol's view of it.
jehovah is a sorry piece of little trash, who couldn't even get his name written in any of the New Testament.
Jesus is my God, Lord, and Savior.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
'Whoa! Hold on their Thomas! That's only son of God. I'm a god now, not God."
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Amen. doctrines formed by one verse only are a violation of Bible study Rules.
Bible Answer To Confusing church Bewilderment!
GRACE and Peace!
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
Of course, just as the Father.
Now, if you want any respect at all from me as a teacher of Scripture, then you can try answering some simple challenges about your jehovah:
1. Jesus has made all things, and nothing is ever made without Him. And the LORD God of Israel is our Maker. (John 1)(Is 45)
2. They say the word was with God, and the word was a god. This perversion of the Greek becomes a direct contradiction to the LORD God declaring there is no god with Him, and concludes that all gods that have not made heaven and earth will perish. (Deut 32)(Jerem 10)
The false christ is made a god, that was never with the LORD, and will perish with all other gods.
3. Your jehovah has never fulfilled any promised prophesy the LORD made of Himself on earth. Scripture shows Jesus has and will.
4. Jesus Christ is the Word of life and eternal life manifested on earth. The true God is that eternal life, the Son Jesus Christ. (I John 1, 5)
5. Jesus is the name above every name that is ever named by God in Scripture, including His name Yehovah. (Eph 1)(Phillip 2)
6. The Son is to be honored as the Father, and if not, then neither the Father nor the Son is being honored as God. (John 5)
So far none of your others fellows have tried at all.
Pick any one of them or all, and show me what you have.
Romans 14:11-12
[11]For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
[12]So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Philippians 2:10-11
[10]That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
[11]And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Revelation 5:11-14
[11]And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
[12]Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
[13]And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
[14]And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
[11]For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
[12]So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Philippians 2:10-11
[10]That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
[11]And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Revelation 5:11-14
[11]And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
[12]Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
[13]And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
[14]And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
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