The Desecration of the Second Temple.

[Timtofly]

Your beliefs are quite contrary to what the Bible says.
Those resurrected martyrs CAN die again, just as Lazarus did.
Rev 20:6 plainly states they can die, but for them that second death is no problem as their names are in the Book pf Life and they will receive immortality at the GWT Judgment.

You are the one with the wrong view on the Millennium. Read Isaiah 65 again. No one dies, but rebellious children.

 

[Keraz]

You are the one with the wrong view on the Millennium. Read Isaiah 65 again. No one dies, but rebellious children.

If you believe in a 'glorification' or in immortality when Jesus Returns, you contradict what the Bible actually says.
Isaiah 64:20 plainly shows that there will be deaths during the Millennium.

No one receives immortality until the Book of Life is opened at the GWT Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15

 

[Timtofly]

If you believe in a 'glorification' or in immortality when Jesus Returns, you contradict what the Bible actually says.
Isaiah 64:20 plainly shows that there will be deaths during the Millennium.

No one receives immortality until the Book of Life is opened at the GWT Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15

Adam was created to live forever. God told him the instant Adam disobeyed God, he would die. God has the right to remove life from even perfect people who cannot die by natural means. Isaiah 65 declares a rebellious child is cursed and will be put to death. No where in Isaiah 65 is natural death mentioned. The only reason people die, is if they disobey. The norm will be to live and obey. There is no sin and no sin nature. There is no death and decay because sin is not allowed to enter the conditions on earth. Earth currently groans under the burden of sin and the decay of sin. That will not be the case in the 1,000 year reign of Christ. It is not about glorification or so called being immortal. Humans are not turned into "gods" living on earth. They have normal incorruptible physical bodies, without sin and the decay of death, sin brings to life. Right now Adam's flesh is corruptible and dead. After a resurrection it is no longer Adam's flesh and blood. It is a God given permanent incorruptible physical body that Adam was originally created with before Adam died physically and spiritually.

 

[Keraz]

Adam was created to live forever. God told him the instant Adam disobeyed God, he would die. God has the right to remove life from even perfect people who cannot die by natural means. Isaiah 65 declares a rebellious child is cursed and will be put to death. No where in Isaiah 65 is natural death mentioned. The only reason people die, is if they disobey. The norm will be to live and obey. There is no sin and no sin nature. There is no death and decay because sin is not allowed to enter the conditions on earth. Earth currently groans under the burden of sin and the decay of sin. That will not be the case in the 1,000 year reign of Christ. It is not about glorification or so called being immortal. Humans are not turned into "gods" living on earth. They have normal incorruptible physical bodies, without sin and the decay of death, sin brings to life. Right now Adam's flesh is corruptible and dead. After a resurrection it is no longer Adam's flesh and blood. It is a God given permanent incorruptible physical body that Adam was originally created with before Adam died physically and spiritually.

Unscriptural nonsense.
Your private belief, without any Bible support.

The only change that will happen to our living existence, will happen after the GWT Judgment. Rev 20:11-15

 

[Earburner]

Nowhere does the Bible say the Christians will receive immortality at the Return. Even the resurrected martyrs are just brought back to life. Revelation 20:4-5 They may die a second death, but as their names are in the Book of Life; immortality is theirs at the GWT Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15

Your comments about me are personal and show how confused and deceived your are.

Jesus said that upon His Return, that His reward is with Him.
Rev. 22[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
1 Cor. 15:52[50]
Now this I say, brethren*, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and *the dead [in Christ] shall be raised incorruptible, and we [who are alive and remain] shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
2 Thes. 1[7]
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Luke 17[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Keraz,
It is not my intention to offend you, or anyone else here. However, if you have perceived that I did, I apologize that it came off to you in that way.
Having said that, I hope that you didn't intentionally retaliate in kind.
Thanks, Earburner

 

[Timtofly]

Unscriptural nonsense.
Your private belief, without any Bible support.

The only change that will happen to our living existence, will happen after the GWT Judgment. Rev 20:11-15

It already happened at the Cross, with Christ and the OT firstfruits.

 

[Earburner]

That was the second temple, and the 30 pieces of silver was rejected by the temple, and used to purchase the Potter's Field. Check your Bible.

Concerning the third temple,
I think that you missed my question, and then you didn't comprehend my point, which was:
See it's fulfillment in John 2:19-22

 

[Earburner]

If you believe in a 'glorification' or in immortality when Jesus Returns, you contradict what the Bible actually says.
Isaiah 64:20 plainly shows that there will be deaths during the Millennium.

No one receives immortality until the Book of Life is opened at the GWT Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15

To have one's name "written in heaven", is to have it written in the "Book of Life", which is synonymous with Romans 8:8-9. Christians basically believe that as being called: "to be in Jesus".

As for those who were of faith in the OT, you might want to look at Malachi 3:16.
You can see them in Revelation 6:9-11, thus revealing, even though they had died long ago, God did not forget them. On Pentecost, He Gifted them also with His Holy Spirit, symbolized as "white robes".
On that, you can think about the thief on the cross and his whereabouts.

EDIT: most are probably wondering why I have that point of view. It's simple. In the KJV, all one has to do is compare the words "remembrance" and "altar". For one to be "under the altar" of God, is to have their "names written" in His "Book of Remembrance".

 

[Keraz]

Jesus said that upon His Return, that His reward is with Him.

That reward is not Eternal life. It will be being given a position of honor during the Millennium. Revelation 22:12
The Bible plainly tells us when immortality will be given to those worthy. Revelation 20:11-15
Thinking is could be before the final Judgment and before any testing, is error.

1 Corinthians 15:50-56 is a prophecy about what happens at the Great White Throne Judgment; AFTER the Millennium. Proved by how it is then that Death is no more. Revelation 21:4

2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 and Luke 17:29 both refer to the next prophesied event - the Sixth Seal, Lord's day of fiery wrath. Neither say we Christians will be changed in any way then.

To have one's name "written in heaven", is to have it written in the "Book of Life"

Written in the Book of Life:

Malachi 3:16-18 Those who loved the Lord and kept His Laws, met together and the Lord watched them and listened to their supplications. A record was written before Him of those who feared Him and had respect for His Name. They will be Mine, says the Lord Almighty, My own possession on the Day that I appoint and I shall spare them, as a father protects his son who serves him. Once more, you will be able to tell the difference between the good and the wicked, the servant of God from the person who does not serve Him.

Daniel 12:1 There will be a time of anguish, but at that time the Lord’s people will be delivered, all those whose names are written in the Book of Life.

Jeremiah 10:18 The Lord says; This time, I shall throw out the whole population of the holy Land, I will bring disaster and doom upon them all. Ezekiel 21:4

Psalm 50:3-6 Our God is coming and will not keep silent, a consuming fire runs ahead of Him and around Him a great storm rages. He summons heaven and earth to the judging of His people. Gather to Me, My loyal servants, those who by sacrifice have made a Covenant with Me.

Zephaniah 2:3 Seek the Lord, all you who obey Him and it may be that you will be sheltered on the Day of the Lord’s anger.

Jeremiah 17:7-8 Blessed is anyone who trusts in the Lord, they will be like trees by a stream, when the heat comes they will have nothing to fear.

Psalm 60:4-5 For those who fear the Lord, He has made a sign by which they may escape the disaster. Those dear to Him will be delivered by His strong Right hand.

Isaiah 43:2b you will walk thru fire and not be scorched, thru flames and not be burnt.

Psalm 37:9-13 The wicked plot against the Lord’s people, they hate to see those who worship Him and keep His laws. But the Lord laughs at them and in a little while the wicked will be no more, however hard you look you will find their place empty. For evildoers will be destroyed, but those who trust in the Lord will possess the holy Land and enjoy untold prosperity.

Isaiah 65:9b My chosen ones will take possession of the holy Land and those who serve Me will live there. 1 Cor. 2:9

Psalm 118:16-29 With His mighty Right hand, the Lord will give victory over the surrounding nations. This is the Day the Lord takes action, it will be a Day for us to exult and rejoice. The Lord’s people will not die, they will live to proclaim His mighty deeds. Our prayers for deliverance and prosperity will be granted, we will bless Him who comes in the Name of the Lord. [At the Return of Jesus, years later.] You are our God and we will praise and exalt You. It is good to give thanks to the Lord, for His love endures forever.


Righteous people, who worship God and keep His commandments, all faithful born again Christians, will have their names written in the Book of Life. They will be protected and delivered when the heat comes; the consuming fire of the Lord’s wrath, that will burn His enemies to ashes. Malachi 4:1-3 The whole population of the holy Land will be gone, the Land empty and deserted, Zephaniah 1:18 and then the Lord promises the Land will bring forth fruit and become like a garden land, Ezekiel 36:8, Isaiah 35:1-2, then those who fear Him and have respect for His Name will rejoice, as they gather and go to live in peace and prosperity in the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5

Then; after the Millennium, when the Book of Life is opened, Revelation 20:11-15, those whose names are found Written in it, will receive immortality and will go with God into Eternity.

 

[Earburner]

That reward is not Eternal life. It will be being given a position of honor during the Millennium. Revelation 22:12
The Bible plainly tells us when immortality will be given to those worthy. Revelation 20:11-15
Thinking is could be before the final Judgment and before any testing, is error.

1 Corinthians 15:50-56 is a prophecy about what happens at the Great White Throne Judgment; AFTER the Millennium. Proved by how it is then that Death is no more. Revelation 21:4

2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 and Luke 17:29 both refer to the next prophesied event - the Sixth Seal, Lord's day of fiery wrath. Neither say we Christians will be changed in any way then.

Written in the Book of Life:

Malachi 3:16-18 Those who loved the Lord and kept His Laws, met together and the Lord watched them and listened to their supplications. A record was written before Him of those who feared Him and had respect for His Name. They will be Mine, says the Lord Almighty, My own possession on the Day that I appoint and I shall spare them, as a father protects his son who serves him. Once more, you will be able to tell the difference between the good and the wicked, the servant of God from the person who does not serve Him.

Daniel 12:1 There will be a time of anguish, but at that time the Lord’s people will be delivered, all those whose names are written in the Book of Life.

Jeremiah 10:18 The Lord says; This time, I shall throw out the whole population of the holy Land, I will bring disaster and doom upon them all. Ezekiel 21:4

Psalm 50:3-6 Our God is coming and will not keep silent, a consuming fire runs ahead of Him and around Him a great storm rages. He summons heaven and earth to the judging of His people. Gather to Me, My loyal servants, those who by sacrifice have made a Covenant with Me.

Zephaniah 2:3 Seek the Lord, all you who obey Him and it may be that you will be sheltered on the Day of the Lord’s anger.

Jeremiah 17:7-8 Blessed is anyone who trusts in the Lord, they will be like trees by a stream, when the heat comes they will have nothing to fear.

Psalm 60:4-5 For those who fear the Lord, He has made a sign by which they may escape the disaster. Those dear to Him will be delivered by His strong Right hand.

Isaiah 43:2b you will walk thru fire and not be scorched, thru flames and not be burnt.

Psalm 37:9-13 The wicked plot against the Lord’s people, they hate to see those who worship Him and keep His laws. But the Lord laughs at them and in a little while the wicked will be no more, however hard you look you will find their place empty. For evildoers will be destroyed, but those who trust in the Lord will possess the holy Land and enjoy untold prosperity.

Isaiah 65:9b My chosen ones will take possession of the holy Land and those who serve Me will live there. 1 Cor. 2:9

Psalm 118:16-29 With His mighty Right hand, the Lord will give victory over the surrounding nations. This is the Day the Lord takes action, it will be a Day for us to exult and rejoice. The Lord’s people will not die, they will live to proclaim His mighty deeds. Our prayers for deliverance and prosperity will be granted, we will bless Him who comes in the Name of the Lord. [At the Return of Jesus, years later.] You are our God and we will praise and exalt You. It is good to give thanks to the Lord, for His love endures forever.


Righteous people, who worship God and keep His commandments, all faithful born again Christians, will have their names written in the Book of Life. They will be protected and delivered when the heat comes; the consuming fire of the Lord’s wrath, that will burn His enemies to ashes. Malachi 4:1-3 The whole population of the holy Land will be gone, the Land empty and deserted, Zephaniah 1:18 and then the Lord promises the Land will bring forth fruit and become like a garden land, Ezekiel 36:8, Isaiah 35:1-2, then those who fear Him and have respect for His Name will rejoice, as they gather and go to live in peace and prosperity in the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5

Then; after the Millennium, when the Book of Life is opened, Revelation 20:11-15, those whose names are found Written in it, will receive immortality and will go with God into Eternity.

I can condense it all. Jesus Himself is the Book of Life.
Romans 8:[8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[Keraz]

I can condense it all. Jesus Himself is the Book of Life.

There is no sense in making a clearly described object into an allegory for a person. Even for Jesus.
It isn't even essential to accept Jesus to have your name Written in the Book of Life, as all the Patriarchs have and they never knew Jesus.
Faith in God and keeping the Commandments is the criteria and when the Book of Life is opened, after the Millennium, the result will be as Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[Earburner]

There is no sense in making a clearly described object into an allegory for a person. Even for Jesus.
It isn't even essential to accept Jesus to have your name Written in the Book of Life, as all the Patriarchs have and they never knew Jesus.
Faith in God and keeping the Commandments is the criteria and when the Book of Life is opened, after the Millennium, the result will be as Revelation 20:11-15.

You have neglected to understand that there were other books, besides the Book of Life.
Revelation 20[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:
and another book was opened, which is the book of life:
> BOTH the KJV and ESV reference Malachi. 3:16, the "Book of Remembrance" for OT Israel, who had died in faith, of which was fulfilled in Revelation 6:9-11. On Pentecost, they also were freely Given the Gift of God's Holy Spirit, symbolized as "white robes" (KJV).

You shouldn't be having an issue in the understanding of that.
Remember, it is all about Romans 8:8-9, as to who is "ready", and who is not. A good reference on that is the parable of "the ten virgins".

 

[Timtofly]

You have neglected to understand that there were other books, besides the Book of Life.
Revelation 20[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:
and another book was opened, which is the book of life:
> BOTH the KJV and ESV reference Malachi. 3:16, the "Book of Remembrance" for OT Israel, who had died in faith, of which was fulfilled in Revelation 6:9-11. On Pentecost, they also were freely Given the Gift of God's Holy Spirit, symbolized as "white robes" (KJV).

You shouldn't be having an issue in the understanding of that.
Remember, it is all about Romans 8:8-9, as to who is "ready", and who is not. A good reference on that is the parable of "the ten virgins".

Are you saying the 5 foolish, a "percentage of Jews", sitting in sheol for thousands of years "get out of jail free" at the GWT?

 

[Earburner]

It isn't even essential to accept Jesus to have your name Written in the Book of Life, as all the Patriarchs have and they never knew Jesus.

Of course, what I have revealed, places your comment in a very dangerous place, of discounting that only through Jesus' Name does God the Father save anyone.
Jesus, the Deliverer, was that Promise of faith, that "the Israel of God" looked forward to. We today are blessed, because we can look forward and backward. But, never should we ever think, or assume, that there is another way!

EDIT: the bottom line is, whoever did not have their name in the Book of Life, were cast into the LoF.
Rev. 20:15. The faithful of OT Israel, are now shown to be secure in Rev. 6:9-11.

 

[Earburner]

Are you saying the 5 foolish, a "percentage of Jews", sitting in sheol for thousands of years "get out of jail free" at the GWT?

Remember, it's a parable, a fictitious story containing a singular truth.
Focus on the "lamps" and the "oil", as to who had what, and who didn't.
Clue:
"Oil" is symbolic of Anointing.
"Lamps" are symbolic of God's word.

 

[Timtofly]

Remember, it's a parable, a fictitious story containing a singular truth.
Focus on the "lamps" and the "oil", as to who had what, and who didn't.
Clue:
"Oil" is symbolic of Anointing.
"Lamps" are symbolic of God's word.

You did not answer my question.

I am not going to answer the question for you, as I don't read minds.

You and Keraz have the same answer according to your post, because you are as clear as mud, but say the same thing he does. I was trying to get your thoughts, but still clear as mud.

I get the point of the verses you quote, but you are basically saying the same thing as Keraz's post say. You just "hint" with different words. But those words mean the same thing as Keraz's words do.

 

[Keraz]

Read again the OP of this thread.
I proved that the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 has been fulfilled. It has nothing to do with end times.

As for our Salvation, Faith and Trust in Jesus is paramount to get us thru all that will happen before He Returns.

 

[Earburner]

You did not answer my question.

I am not going to answer the question for you, as I don't read minds.

You and Keraz have the same answer according to your post, because you are as clear as mud, but say the same thing he does. I was trying to get your thoughts, but still clear as mud.

I get the point of the verses you quote, but you are basically saying the same thing as Keraz's post say. You just "hint" with different words. But those words mean the same thing as Keraz's words do.

KJV Matthew 25:1-13
I did try to help, by providing two clues. So now I will ask you directly.
Which grouping of the ten virgins had their "lamps" (Psalms 119:105), but did not take "oil" IN their "vessels", with their lamps? (2 Corinthians 4:7)?

Please reference the following support scriptures: Zechariah 4:6; Romans 8:9; John 1:33; John 3:5-7).

 

[Earburner]

Read again the OP of this thread.
I proved that the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 has been fulfilled. It has nothing to do with end times.

As for our Salvation, Faith and Trust in Jesus is paramount to get us thru all that will happen before He Returns.

KJV Daniel 8:13-26 is the understanding of the 2300 days. See the history recorded by the Jews, in 1 Macabees about Antiochus Epiphanes and Judas Maccabeus.

"For it will be many days", was concerning the end of the Age of Transgression, and not the Age of Grace through Jesus.
Therefore, that prophecy in Daniel, was still 500 +/- years into the future, when the Messiah would come and "finish the [age of] Transgression", being that of the "Six works of God" that God gave Him to do in the 70 week prophecy of Daniel 9:24.

Prophecy fulfilled: John 17:4; John 19:30.
Though we have different understandings, I do agree, the 2300 day prophecy was fulfilled.

There is no such thing as another "little horn" to come, somewhere in the future.
Church-ianity has fabricated a Sci-Fi thriller, and loves to call a singular man "THE" Antichrist.
All of that should be understood in the plural, meaning that by "that spirit of antichrist", there shall be "MANY antichrists", of which simply describes those who deny that God the Son has come in the flesh.

 

[Keraz]

There is no such thing as another "little horn" to come, somewhere in the future.
Church-ianity has fabricated a Sci-Fi thriller, and loves to call a singular man "THE" Antichrist.

The prophets plainly say that there will come a powerful and charismatic man, who will take dictatorial control over the One World Govt, formed by the survivors of the forthcoming Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Daniel 7:23-24, Revelation 13:1-4, Revelation 17:12-13

Therefore, that prophecy in Daniel, was still 500 +/- years into the future, when the Messiah would come and "finish the [age of] Transgression", being that of the "Six works of God" that God gave Him to do in the 70 week prophecy of Daniel 9:24.

This is nonsense, in no way has the six tenets of Daniel 9:24, been fulfilled. They await the Return of Jesus.

The 2300 evenings and mornings do not fit anywhere at the first Advent of Jesus.