The Devil

[Purity]

Purity

Give me your thoughts on the many evil spirits in the man at the tomb. Mark 4

How does the many evil spirits(devils) leave a man if the flesh is the devil ?
Some how it effects the swine, what was it ?

Some how some of these people that had evil spirits felt threaten when Jesus appeared to him and knew who he was.
Jesus had to tell some evil spirit to be quiet not to reveal who he was.
Some how these human if they are evil spirits thought Jesus was going to destroy them before there time.

I am assuming that these humans were the first time Jesus met them. like the man at the tomb.

Your thoughts ?

From the record what do you presume his illness was though not known in that day?

A more perfect truth...that's a very revealing statement about your teachers and you. Prov. 11:2 When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom.
Rom. 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.
This "only we are right and you are wrong", "only we have the more perfect truth", holier than thou, legalistic, judgmental attitude where humility is lacking and with a prideful heart; where love and compassion for others is not shown. James 3: 9 With this(tongue) bless we God, even the Father; and with this curse we men, who are made after the similitude of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceeds blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

There are degrees of truth.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

From the record what do you presume his illness was though not known in that day?

Without believing their is no evil Spirits - you would say he is insane and has split personalities. - mental nerve problems - give him a pill.
I don't have the new name what doctors would call it.

But it was revealed in the scriptures they were many spirits and one spoke for the other that were with him.
And they seek to stay alive.

If its a mental nerve problem, why would the man want it keep in safe keeping in the swine.

Just heal the mental problem, but it says they were cast out. So something must be a living thing to enter into those swine. Not a thought.

I do know some people who do not believe there a devil(Satan) but they do believe that evil spirits exist and God uses them. This are not sinful evil, but their works is evil to man.

 

[shturt678]

Thank you for caring folks, ie, only a head's up.

Jesus never internalized any temptation as the Godman Jesus (Heb.4:15). Jesus' likeness to us, in which He was tempted, was total with one exception, namely sin. "Likeness without sin" resembles Rom.8:3. When temptation assailed Jesus it found no sin with which it could connect sort of thing.

Old Jack

 

[truthquest]

What would you do truthquest if you held a more perfect truth - would you remain quiet?

There are degrees of truth.

A more perfect truth and degrees of truth...Do the scriptures say, For all of The Written Law is fulfilled in one saying, by this: “You shall hold a more perfect truth”? At the end of the day, is this why you can't keep quiet? I believe "the truth" is as the scriptures say, Gal. 5:14 For all of The Written Law is fulfilled in one saying, by this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Rom. 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. 1Cor. 13:2 And if I have prophecy, and I know all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so that I may remove mountains, and I have no love in me, I would be nothing.....I shall be clanging brass or a noise-making cymbal.

 

[brakelite]

There is so much error permeating Christian thought and practice it is truly astonishing. Yet we have the Bible at our fingertips that we may have an answer to all the garbage that passes as religious truth but in reality is misguided at best, and designed to send men to hell at worst. But the Bible on its own is of no use without prayer.

It really is also truly astonishing, that right at our fingertips (or tongue-tips to be more precise) is a vehicle for not just finding the answers to error, but also for entering into the throne-room of the Creator of the universe! A vehicle that is available to us twenty-four hours a day, every day of the year. If we had such a privilege to be able to engage the ear of the queen of England or the president of either the US or the European Union or perhaps even the pope, with as much freedom, we would be the envy of the world, and people from all corners of the globe would be clamouring (lol… I spelt this incorrectly at first spelling it clammering; the spell check then gave me three alternatives… clambering, hammering, clamouring… all quite appropriate) at our door asking for favours. Yet we, even more astonishingly, avail ourselves of this privilege so little!

Prayer is not always easy to understand. Why ask God for something He already knows about? Will God not do anything for us except we ask Him first? Can our prayers really change what God intends to do; can it change His mind? Whether we understand what prayer is or not, one thing is certain; without it, as Christians, we are doomed to failure. Prayer is the lifeblood of the soul. I have found throughout my Christian walk, that those times when I needed prayer most, came after periods where I prayed least. I have found that the old adage, that we don’t know what we are missing until its gone, is very relevant at times like these.

God, whose name the Lord informed Moses is merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, (Exodus 34:5,6) demonstrates His character by being precisely what His name above depicts. At those times when I had neglected to pray as often and as constantly as I ought, and found myself in the inevitable spot of bother as a result, and upon realising my predicament and returning to my knees, am so grateful that I did not hear… “Ha! Serve yourself right! You neglect Me and you get yourself into trouble every time. How many times do I have to remind you! You are weak, stupid, ignorant, self-willed, arrogant, proud, independently minded, and quite frankly, too much trouble to bother with any more. Sort out your own problems. I’m done with you.!!!” On the contrary, what I hear is “Oh my precious son, welcome back! Now, take of My strength, let My grace and power sustain you, trust Me and all things shall work together for your good.” ( Psalm 145:18,19; Luke 15:18-24; Psalm 29:11; Jeremiah 29:11; Isaiah 42:16; 65:24; Romans 8:28.)

Prayer however isn’t only a cry for help. It is really the only vehicle we have for sustaining our relationship with God, and like any inter-human relationship, to get to know Him we must spend time with Him. If communication is so crucial in our relationships with other people, how can it be less so with God? And if Jesus, the spotless Son of God, Who knew no sin,was without fault, and walked in perfect harmony with the will of His Father throughout His life needed to pray so often as depicted so clearly throughout the gospels, (see Luke 3:21,22; 6:12,13; 9:28,29; Hebrews 5:7; Matt. 14:23.) how much more do we need to? So the big question remains, and is one I need repeatedly to ask myself. “Why do we pray so little?!” Frankly, I think the answer, for me anyway, is somewhat closely related to something I wrote above. I am weak, stupid, ignorant, self-willed, arrogant, proud, and all too independently minded. (Now I am allowed to say that, so there is no need for everyone to agree with me okay!) Truly though, it comes down to a matter of choice. How well do we really want to know our Creator? How close do we want to be to Him?

I don’t believe however that I am being dishonest when I say that of late, that is the last three or four years, my prayer life has vastly improved. I have found more consistency, and have found a level of great peace and joy as a result. That’s not to say that there weren’t times in the past when I experienced such peace, nor felt such joy. But of late it is constant, and I am greatly reluctant to allow this to slip, on the contrary, I am convinced there is no limit to the closeness and intimacy we can have with our Lord.
Bottom line, prayer is a serious business. We are called to pray. Why? Why is it that the Bible tells us:
And,
For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; (2 Corinthians 10:4)
What does that all mean? It means there is a war on. I have seen much evil. I have seen demons, and I have seen angels. I have seen a possessed young woman (now deceased) face to face speaking to me vehemently with a male's voice in an ancient language with which I am vaguely familiar but in a dialect known only to the priestly class. She was not of that class. She was my best friend’s wife. He knew the language fluently, but the particular dialect to him was mostly incomprehensible. And at that time she had such an expression of hatred for me I have never seen elsewhere since, thank God. She was delivered of that demon, praise God.

The point being we are at war. There is a major war going on; a war entailing our entire planet with ramifications throughout all the universe. A war between Christ and Satan, and we are on the frontline. Not only are we on the frontline, we are also the prize. If we aren’t being attacked, maligned, abused, persecuted, talked about, gossiped over, sworn at, cursed, at least some of the time if not all at once constantly, then we are doing something wrong. Satan hates Jesus with a vengeance, with a passion that will never lessen until the day he is destroyed. He however cannot touch Christ personally, but he can certainly touch Him through His followers. That’s you and me. If Satan doesn’t see you as his primary target, if you are no threat to him, then you need to find out why and do something about it. We are called to fight, called to be warriors for Christ. If your Christian walk is a walk in the park with no hassle, no troubles, no obstacles to climb over, no mountains to remove, no rivers to cross, then your on the wrong path. And if you don't believe Satan exists as a personal being, then he has got you precisely where he wants you.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints. (Eph 6:12-18)
There is a major world war on folks, a war that will have repercussions that will last for all eternity, a war that will result in more casualties than all other wars put together, and if you cannot see it in your own life or in the lives of your loved ones, your AWOL. Time to fast and pray that God will open your eyes and show you where the enemy is operating. You are called to fight. You will be surprised at how close the battle is. Prayer is your lifeline. It is your sole connection to the source of life and to your sustaining power. It is through prayer that we ensure our remaining connected to the vine. There is great power in prayer.

All this does not mean that everything must be blamed upon the devil, no no. The scripture does indeed say that we are tempted by our own lusts and desires. The thing is though the devil, Satan, knows our kusts and desires as well as we. He has been studying human psychology for 6000 years an knows precisely where you are weakest. It was in those weak areas that he attacked and tempted Jesus. After 40 days without food and the company of others, Satan thought Jesus was beatable in three areas....Appetite........His idenity .....and His mission. Satan was using the inner mind and heart of the Savior in an attempt to make Jesus doubt where He had come from, Who He was, and where He was going.

We are reminded by Jesus Himself that He would send His Spirit that we may understand His word. But if some are praying to the wrong Jesus, and receiving a false spirit, then it is difficult to imagine how truth will be manifest in their teaching.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 ¶ Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Floyd]

From Brakelight:

The point being we are at war. There is a major war going on; a war entailing our entire planet with ramifications throughout all the universe. A war between Christ and Satan, and we are on the frontline. Not only are we on the frontline, we are also the prize. If we aren’t being attacked, maligned, abused, persecuted, talked about, gossiped over, sworn at, cursed, at least some of the time if not all at once constantly, then we are doing something wrong. Satan hates Jesus with a vengeance, with a passion that will never lessen until the day he is destroyed. He however cannot touch Christ personally, but he can certainly touch Him through His followers. That’s you and me. If Satan doesn’t see you as his primary target, if you are no threat to him, then you need to find out why and do something about it. We are called to fight, called to be warriors for Christ. If your Christian walk is a walk in the park with no hassle, no troubles, no obstacles to climb over, no mountains to remove, no rivers to cross, then your on the wrong path. And if you don't believe Satan exists as a personal being, then he has got you precisely where he wants you.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints. (Eph 6:12-18)
There is a major world war on folks, a war that will have repercussions that will last for all eternity, a war that will result in more casualties than all other wars put together, and if you cannot see it in your own life or in the lives of your loved ones, your AWOL. Time to fast and pray that God will open your eyes and show you where the enemy is operating. You are called to fight. You will be surprised at how close the battle is. Prayer is your lifeline. It is your sole connection to the source of life and to your sustaining power. It is through prayer that we ensure our remaining connected to the vine. There is great power in prayer.

Yes; we are at war, which has many fronts!
That's why, when somebody states with force "there is no Satan", as is proposed by a so called Christian from Australia; we must be ready for intensification of that war!
Eph.6 is clear regarding that war; that's why those that say otherwise should be fought; and if they resist; ignored; especially if they deny the Lord's Deity!!!

You mention the war within us as people; and perhaps equate it to a satan.
That IMO is not valid.
Satan works on the "fallen nature " of mankind, because of the fall of Eve and Adam!
See:

Eve and http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Eve and Adam.htmAdam!



[SIZE=14pt]Discussions take place frequently as to the reason that Satan approached Eve and not Adam, to partake of the fruit of the tree “of the knowledge of good and evil”, Gen. 2:9, 2:17, 3:1-5.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Some say that Eve was more gullible and suggestible than Adam, being a woman, and there may or may not be some truth in that point. Others say that both were equally susceptible and that Satan just happened to meet Eve first, but Satan always acts with purpose![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]We now know that death entered the world because of that act of Eve’s, Gen. 2:17, it is certain that Satan’s tempting of Eve was by design, as Satan’s deceptive ability is on record, Gen. 3:1.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]A further possible reason that Eve was approached, and Adam followed, has been suggested as Adam’s great love of Eve, and has been described as “Adam loving Eve too much”![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]However, when one remembers that the target of Satan was Adam, not Eve; Satan’s plan clearly had a killer punch in its formulation. God had formed man/Adam first, Gen. 2:7, and had given him instructions re the Garden of Eden; Gen. 2:16, and as such was first in God’s order of Creation and responsibility, as Adam, not Eve was answerable to God at that time, Gen. 3:9.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]When one considers the grave responsibility that Adam carried to obey God, Satan knew that a mere appearance, and suggestion by him to Adam to take of the Forbidden Fruit would probably not succeed, and he knew that in all likelihood he would only have one chance with Adam, as he would report Satan’s activity to God in their daily contact/ communion![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]It is shown in Scripture that Satan had held high Office under God at some stage in the past, as a “covering Cherub”, Ezek. 28:13, and the whole of the twenty eighth Chapter, and Isa. 14, confirms his rise and eventual future destruction. His Domain was described as “the holy mountain of God”, Ezek. 28:14. This state continued until “iniquity was found in thee”, 28:15, which emphasises that Satan had choice[/SIZE], which he exercised to challenge Almighty God, in His own Domain, Ezek. 28:2, 6,17, and Isa. 13-14. It is important to note, that Adam and Eve also were given free will, Gen. 2:17
[SIZE=14pt]When attempting to understand what Satan thought he knew would work in his assault on Adam, he clearly had knowledge and or experience, or both to call on, which in his calculated plan against Adam, gave him a high degree of certainty of success.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Here we can use Scripture record in this effort to solve this puzzle of Eden.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Satan’s own Fall from the Grace of Almighty God was due to his freewill choice to challenge God in His own Domain, Ezek. 28:2, and to love his own self,[/SIZE] Ezek. 28:17! That self love replaced his love and duty to God as the “covering cherub”, which position entailed presumably the “covering” of the heavenly beings in the “mountain of God”, Ezek. 28:14!
[SIZE=14pt]When remembering that all heavens created beings (angels etc.), are described in Scripture as male,[/SIZE] the situation in God’s Creation in Eden shows a distinct change in the creation of Eve from Adam! The fact that she was a part of Adam (his rib) Gen. 2:22-25, underlines the statement in Gen. 2:24, shows the legitimacy of the full circle from “rib” to "union", which is called marriage, when under the Ordinance of God; which is man and woman!
[SIZE=14pt]Satan had to break that legitimacy to bring to ruin the perfection of that “Ordinance”! He surmised that to sully the perfect circle of “rib” to "union", which is called (marriage) would achieve the objective. He knew that in his own case, his self love and pride of it[/SIZE], had moved him from love of God to his own fallen state, and as his whole effort was from then on, to unseat God, and he has been given certain freedom to attempt such; it was imperative for him to own Adam, to show the failure of God’s Plan before all heavenly Creation, and therefore his superiority over God! See: [SIZE=14pt]Satan's Motivation: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Satan therefore approached Eve, changed the words that God had given to Adam re. the forbidden fruit to: “ Ye shall not surely die” Gen.3:4, and the trap was set for Adam;[/SIZE] and in so doing he usurped God and Adam, and his efforts have been continual since, and will be until his final demise; Rev. 20:3, and 20:7-10.
[SIZE=14pt]How then was the “trap” set, and why would it have the desired effect for Satan? It is the writers contention that when Eve ate of the “forbidden fruit”, she was changed, in Adam’s perception, that she allured him in a new way, in a sexually attractive way, which was different to that attraction before she ate of the forbidden fruit; and knew for the first time that she was naked Gen. 3:7.[/SIZE] At that stage Adam had not eaten, but was with her, and perceived the change in her; AND LIKED WHAT HE PERCEIVED, and joined Eve in the “forbidden fruit”! Also, Satan was using the God given protective love that a man has for his woman, in an enhanced state that she was then in!
[SIZE=14pt]The key words used in Gen. 3:6 are; good, pleasant, desired, wise; and are based on Satan's lie and promise in 3:5, "that you will be as God", (not gods as AV 1611). He again attempted to use the same lies against our Lord (the second Adam), in Matt. 4:1-10. What he did not of course say, is that they would have the insights listed above, that he has, and had in perfection as "the covering cherub"! Also, he did not say they would be "fallen", as he is; and is then and now attempting to convert all created beings, heavenly and on earth to his plan to unseat God Almighty![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]When Eve ate of the "forbidden Fruit", her perceptions were changed to Satan's perceptions and in 3:6, (lust "pleasant" of the eyes) corrected as per Comp. 3:6, note by Dr. Bullinger. Adam also liked the change he saw in her, to the point of also disobeying God's instruction, probably as per above comment and correction by Dr. Bullinger.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The argument is used against the above, that in Gen. 3:7, that the reference is to both of them. However, it is clear in the narrative that Eve was fallen first, and the time gap was sufficient for Adam to “perceive, and like what he perceived”. Many women object to this interpretation (including a female Bible Teacher of the writers acquaintance), and state that Eve was as important as Adam; which is not disputed, but Adam held the responsibility, and therefore in general terms and God’s eyes, Adam's was/is the failure! Also many women object to the sexual connotation. That is to be expected with the Feminist movements inroads into the female mind and world; the same organisation has lobbied for the male gender reference in the Bible to be changed to female or neuter! The “equality” demanded by vociferous “Feminists”, undermines their Biblical status as child rearers, and as "help meet", to their men, the functions of which are of the most important in the[/SIZE] world! A female U.K. Professor stated recently what has been known by American business women for some time now, “that women cannot have it all”, defined as good work life, and good family life, due to one or the other suffering as a result of lack of attention or closeness. This is especially true where children are concerned.
[SIZE=14pt]The many references to Adam show his responsibility to God; Gen. 2:15-16, 19, 20, 3:8-9, 16-17 and 24. It is interesting to note that Eve is cursed by God, but not Adam. For Adam’s sin of being persuaded by Eve to eat the “Forbidden fruit”, the[/SIZE] ground is cursed; and his is the labour of frustration all his days, which most men will admit. The major point here, is that Adam "listened to the voice of his wife", Gen. 3:17, and ate the forbidden fruit, instead of doing what God had said! That does not mean that Adam should not hear, or listen to his wife! It does mean that he should not obey her when he knew she was wrong! In this he used his free will to disobey God, and obey his wife! This phenomena is now widespread!
[SIZE=14pt]Eve’s curse entails childbirth and rearing, and her husband ruling over her Gen. 3:16, a condition guaranteed to drive many modern women to distraction and rejection of God's Word. However, the condition is confirmed in 1Tim. 2:12 and Eph. 5:22-23. The major difference now to Genesis, is that both Eve and Adam, (all Christian married couples) are seen by God through the Sacrifice of Jesus the Christ, as per Eph. 5:22-23.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Recently a scientist said on a TV program that “men have evolved to enjoy the female body instead of their minds”. That of course is an atheist’s view, and as Christ-ones know, God’s Word is the only source of Truth,[/SIZE] and the truth is that Adam fell for Eve’s body, in a different way to originally ordained, Gen. 1:28, and agreed to eat the “forbidden fruit” because of what he perceived/saw, and liked! Many have said, or alluded, that the “original sin” was sex. That is clearly not so as Gen. 1:28 shows. “Original sin”, is disobedience to God’s instruction, by first Eve, then Adam. Eve was deceived by Satan, Adam was tempted by Eve!
[SIZE=14pt]Satan has used the same formulation, i.e. corrupted sexuality, again since Eden in the form of “fallen angels” mating with “the daughters of men”, Gen. 6:2, and 6:4. See : Nephilim, who were they, and why:[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]This was purposed to stop the promise of God embodied in the promise of Messiah, as shown in Gen. 3:15 coming to fruition, as the “seed of the woman” had to remain unsullied by any other than human seed. See: Nephilim;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The human line from Adam to Mary the mother of Jesus had to be completely unsullied by any attempt of Satan, otherwise the conception of Jesus by the “Holy Spirit” of God, would have been impossible! See: [/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]Genealogies of Jesus Christ[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt](Separate study.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Satan is still using perversions of all kinds, (particularly sexual) in all parts of human society to mislead and enslave all who will not see the Truth of God in Christ![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Satan seemed at that early stage of this Creation to have achieved a major victory, but as shown in Gen. 3:15, the struggle had only just begun in this Creation. It was certainly the case that no ordinary human could withstand and resist Satan, but in the wisdom of God, the Gen. 3:15 promise referred only to “the[/SIZE] seed of the woman”, without reference to the Father!
[SIZE=14pt]The ultimate fulfilment of this Promise is shown in the Gospel of Matt. 1: 25, and in Luke 1:26-38. Here, the “seed of the woman” is Mary the espoused of Joseph, and the “Father” is God Almighty in the form of the “Holy Spirit”! The “holy thing” is Jesus of Nazareth, “God Incarnate”[/SIZE], who came to earth, “to save His people from their sins”, initially Israel, but now open to all!
[SIZE=14pt]Jesus came to undo what Satan had corrupted in Eden, when he successfully forced death into the world, via Eve and Adam, and God barred the “tree of life”, Gen. 3:22-24, from them, and all mankind from then on. Jesus, the “second Adam” came that “all who will[/SIZE] may come”, to Jesus the Christ of God, and in believing in Him, may have eternal life. “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive”, 1 Cor. 15:22.
[SIZE=14pt]In Christ Jesus, the perfect union of man and woman, (the rib to union) is restored, as they as Christ-ones are seen through Jesus the Christ by the Father, as perfect! The reason for that is that they are not married under human rules[/SIZE], but before God Himself! The clear message is that the God given union (marriage) is for a man and a woman, no matter what society and Governments say in the present world situation regarding morals!
[SIZE=14pt]The rib was not taken from Adam to create a man, but to create a woman; Eve![/SIZE]

Floyd.

 

[Purity]

Without believing their is no evil Spirits - you would say he is insane and has split personalities. - mental nerve problems - give him a pill.
I don't have the new name what doctors would call it.

But it was revealed in the scriptures they were many spirits and one spoke for the other that were with him.
And they seek to stay alive.

If its a mental nerve problem, why would the man want it keep in safe keeping in the swine.

Just heal the mental problem, but it says they were cast out. So something must be a living thing to enter into those swine. Not a thought.

I do know some people who do not believe there a devil(Satan) but they do believe that evil spirits exist and God uses them. This are not sinful evil, but their works is evil to man.

Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

There are a number of questions one might ask this theme.

1. If they could not scientifically identify his illness what would they call it?
2. What did the Greeks and Romans believe in that day - their language and understanding of diseases and illness was common language?

Pagan beliefs were as prevalent then as they are today. Needless to say, if a person suffers from such an illness today they are not demon possessed just another manifestation of the flesh and its weakness.

P.

A more perfect truth and degrees of truth...Do the scriptures say, For all of The Written Law is fulfilled in one saying, by this: “You shall hold a more perfect truth”? At the end of the day, is this why you can't keep quiet? I believe "the truth" is as the scriptures say, Gal. 5:14 For all of The Written Law is fulfilled in one saying, by this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Rom. 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. 1Cor. 13:2 And if I have prophecy, and I know all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so that I may remove mountains, and I have no love in me, I would be nothing.....I shall be clanging brass or a noise-making cymbal.

Good post truthquest.

I see where you are coming from and I agree with all you have said in part.

And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee. (Acts 10:22)

Was his love of God enough?
What knowledge or words were needed?

There is so much error permeating Christian thought and practice it is truly astonishing.

Yes one can expect after 2000 years and numerous world empires a once pure Gospel has been adulterated beyond recognition.

Yet we have the Bible at our fingertips that we may have an answer to all the garbage that passes as religious truth but in reality is misguided at best, and designed to send men to hell at worst. But the Bible on its own is of no use without prayer.

True - I could add sincere prayer; a searcher of truth as per Prov 1-3

It really is also truly astonishing, that right at our fingertips (or tongue-tips to be more precise) is a vehicle for not just finding the answers to error, but also for entering into the throne-room of the Creator of the universe! A vehicle that is available to us twenty-four hours a day, every day of the year. If we had such a privilege to be able to engage the ear of the queen of England or the president of either the US or the European Union or perhaps even the pope, with as much freedom, we would be the envy of the world, and people from all corners of the globe would be clamouring (lol… I spelt this incorrectly at first spelling it clammering; the spell check then gave me three alternatives… clambering, hammering, clamouring… all quite appropriate) at our door asking for favours. Yet we, even more astonishingly, avail ourselves of this privilege so little!

Nice point.

Prayer is not always easy to understood. Why ask God for something He already knows about? Will God not do anything for us except we ask Him first? Can our prayers really change what God intends to do; can it change His mind? Whether we understand what prayer is or not, one thing is certain; without it, as Christians, we are doomed to failure. Prayer is the lifeblood of the soul. I have found throughout my Christian walk, that those times when I needed prayer most, came after periods where I prayed least. I have found that the old adage, that we don’t know what we are missing until its gone, is very relevant at times like these.

God, whose name the Lord informed Moses is merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, (Exodus 34:5,6) demonstrates His character by being precisely what His name above depicts. At those times when I had neglected to pray as often and as constantly as I ought, and found myself in the inevitable spot of bother as a result, and upon realising my predicament and returning to my knees, am so grateful that I did not hear… “Ha! Serve yourself right! You neglect Me and you get yourself into trouble every time. How many times do I have to remind you! You are weak, stupid, ignorant, self-willed, arrogant, proud, independently minded, and quite frankly, too much trouble to bother with any more. Sort out your own problems. I’m done with you.!!!” On the contrary, what I hear is “Oh my precious son, welcome back! Now, take of My strength, let My grace and power sustain you, trust Me and all things shall work together for your good.” ( Psalm 145:18,19; Luke 15:18-24; Psalm 29:11; Jeremiah 29:11; Isaiah 42:16; 65:24; Romans 8:28.)

Prayer however isn’t only a cry for help. It is really the only vehicle we have for sustaining our relationship with God, and like any inter-human relationship, to get to know Him we must spend time with Him. If communication is so crucial in our relationships with other people, how can it be less so with God? And if Jesus, the spotless Son of God, Who knew no sin,was without fault, and walked in perfect harmony with the will of His Father throughout His life needed to pray so often as depicted so clearly throughout the gospels, (see Luke 3:21,22; 6:12,13; 9:28,29; Hebrews 5:7; Matt. 14:23.) how much more do we need to? So the big question remains, and is one I need repeatedly to ask myself. “Why do we pray so little?!” Frankly, I think the answer, for me anyway, is somewhat closely related to something I wrote above. I am weak, stupid, ignorant, self-willed, arrogant, proud, and all too independently minded. (Now I am allowed to say that, so there is no need for everyone to agree with me okay!) Truly though, it comes down to a matter of choice. How well do we really want to know our Creator? How close do we want to be to Him?

This is exhortational Brakelite and worthy of its own thread.

I don’t believe however that I am being dishonest when I say that of late, that is the last three or four years, my prayer life has vastly improved. I have found more consistency, and have found a level of great peace and joy as a result. That’s not to say that there weren’t times in the past when I experienced such peace, nor felt such joy. But of late it is constant, and I am greatly reluctant to allow this to slip, on the contrary, I am convinced there is no limit to the closeness and intimacy we can have with our Lord.
Bottom line, prayer is a serious business. We are called to pray. Why? Why is it that the Bible tells us:
And,
For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; (2 Corinthians 10:4)
What does that all mean? It means there is a war on. I have seen much evil. I have seen demons, and I have seen angels. I have seen a possessed young woman (now deceased) face to face speaking to me vehemently with a male's voice in an ancient language with which I am vaguely familiar but in a dialect known only to the priestly class. She was not of that class. She was my best friend’s wife. He knew the language fluently, but the particular dialect to him was mostly incomprehensible. And at that time she had such an expression of hatred for me I have never seen elsewhere since, thank God. She was delivered of that demon, praise God.

Brakelite, what you have seen and what is real can be two vastly different things. But lets see where you take this plea!

The point being we are at war. There is a major war going on; a war entailing our entire planet with ramifications throughout all the universe. A war between Christ and Satan, and we are on the frontline. Not only are we on the frontline, we are also the prize. If we aren’t being attacked, maligned, abused, persecuted, talked about, gossiped over, sworn at, cursed, at least some of the time if not all at once constantly, then we are doing something wrong. Satan hates Jesus with a vengeance, with a passion that will never lessen until the day he is destroyed. He however cannot touch Christ personally, but he can certainly touch Him through His followers. That’s you and me. If Satan doesn’t see you as his primary target, if you are no threat to him, then you need to find out why and do something about it. We are called to fight, called to be warriors for Christ. If your Christian walk is a walk in the park with no hassle, no troubles, no obstacles to climb over, no mountains to remove, no rivers to cross, then your on the wrong path. And if you don't believe Satan exists as a personal being, then he has got you precisely where he wants you.

Its a shame you do not understand the nature of the battle only then can the this post have real meaning.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints. (Eph 6:12-18)

It always bothers me when well meaning Christians, which I believe you to be, misquote Scripture to support false doctrine. Why not spend your quality time actually appreciating the text which Paul laboured to give you?

Your plea in this post misses the mark because of your lack of knowledge concerning Paul, the ecclesia and their fight.

Who were the principalities & the powers of that age? Who were the rulers of the darkness of that religious world?
What did the spiritual wickedness in high places do the people of God? Even the Son of God?

You see its easy to wrestle against flesh and blood because its a tangible thing - it can be touched and handled, killed.

But what of the religious darkness in wicked councils? How do you overcome such powers? False doctrines which have flooded the world - how do you overcome them as I am doing here?

What of the political powers of Rome?

The answer is "you cant" if you don't have the armour.

You go on from here to quote Revelation which is clearly unknown to you.

To your shame you need to heed James 1:5 - picking up on your subject of prayer!

You lack the knowledge which enable you to be an effective teacher.

You took us to Ephesians - yes?

Did you know Ephesians is in the same chronological group of Paul's epistles as Col, Philemon, and Philippian's, called collectively "The Prison Epistles" because written during Paul's first Roman imprisonment (cp 2 Tim 1:8: Paul's second imprisonment).

Now would this have some bearing on his exhortation in Eph 6:11-17?

Now what ever you do o foolish brakelite do NOT infer Pauls imprisonment was the result of some supernatural being who overcame Paul in his faith - that would be just stupid nonsense.

He was there because that's where God wanted him fullstop!

There is no other power in the world except for God and its His purpose to have Paul in prison for the benefit of the saints scattered abroad.

Can you see before Paul a fully-clothed and armoured Roman soldier?

Hence, "You see (these scrolls)? My 'sword' is mightier than your 'sword'!"

What does this mean for you Brakelite?

Well the context depicts the lesson being inferred.

Now Jesus provides further comfort to his remnant of believers throughout Asia Minor in Rev 2:10

Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil (false accusers) shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. (Revelation 2:10)

Now a foolish Christian mind would run away with themselves into all sort's of ungodly notions, none of which is inferred here.

Remember it was the religious authorities who killed the prophets and the disciples and apostles - even Christ himself was crucified by the Sanhedrin (Jews) and the Romans powers, principalities in high places!

So what is Jesus teaching the B&S a Smyrna?

Fact 1. He uses the word diabolos signifies false accuser.

Context: A warning against the civil authorities of Smyrna.

The Spirit warned that they would shortly engage upon a program of persecution of the local Ecclesia, falsely accusing member; of crimes they did not commit, and imprisoning them. In Eph 6:11, Paul makes reference to the civil authorities as the diabolos. In 1Pe 5:8, there is reference to "your adversary the devil" (diabolos). Here the word adversary is antidikos, and signifies an opponent αϊ law. Such opponents did not hesitate to falsely accuse the brethren, thus earning the title of diabolos. In the verse before us, they so succeeded in their legal charges against the brethren, as to secure their imprisonment.

The principle of Jesus' true disciples is found in 2 Tim 3:12

Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. (2 Timothy 3:12)

It is this persecution which the first century believers suffered at the hands of the authorities. Needful due to Acts 14:22

Of course Psa 34:19 "A righteous man may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all."

A personal note to Brakelite:

I am without doubt you have a sincere love of Jesus Christ - this cannot be questioned! What you lack is knowledge Hos 4:6 which will take many Christians before and after his coming. My warnings no doubt will fall on deaf ears as they did with Gods people Israel Isa 6:9

God bless your reading with prayer and may He lead you into truth and not be deceived in these dark days.

P.

 

[Floyd]

Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

There are a number of questions one might ask this theme.

1. If they could not scientifically identify his illness what would they call it?
2. What did the Greeks and Romans believe in that day - their language and understanding of diseases and illness was common language?

Pagan beliefs were as prevalent then as they are today. Needless to say, if a person suffers from such an illness today they are not demon possessed just another manifestation of the flesh and its weakness.

P.

Good post truthquest.

I see where you are coming from and I agree with all you have said in part.

And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee. (Acts 10:22)

Was his love of God enough?
What knowledge or words were needed?

Yes one can expect after 2000 years and numerous world empires a once pure Gospel has been adulterated beyond recognition.


True - I could add sincere prayer; a searcher of truth as per Prov 1-3


Nice point.


This is exhortational Brakelite and worthy of its own thread.


Brakelite, what you have seen and what is real can be two vastly different things. But lets see where you take this plea!


Its a shame you do not understand the nature of the battle only then can the this post have real meaning.


It always bothers me when well meaning Christians, which I believe you to be, misquote Scripture to support false doctrine. Why not spend your quality time actually appreciating the text which Paul laboured to give you?

Your plea in this post misses the mark because of your lack of knowledge concerning Paul, the ecclesia and their fight.

Who were the principalities & the powers of that age? Who were the rulers of the darkness of that religious world?
What did the spiritual wickedness in high places do the people of God? Even the Son of God?

You see its easy to wrestle against flesh and blood because its a tangible thing - it can be touched and handled, killed.

But what of the religious darkness in wicked councils? How do you overcome such powers? False doctrines which have flooded the world - how do you overcome them as I am doing here?

What of the political powers of Rome?

The answer is "you cant" if you don't have the armour.

You go on from here to quote Revelation which is clearly unknown to you.

To your shame you need to heed James 1:5 - picking up on your subject of prayer!

You lack the knowledge which enable you to be an effective teacher.

You took us to Ephesians - yes?

Did you know Ephesians is in the same chronological group of Paul's epistles as Col, Philemon, and Philippian's, called collectively "The Prison Epistles" because written during Paul's first Roman imprisonment (cp 2 Tim 1:8: Paul's second imprisonment).

Now would this have some bearing on his exhortation in Eph 6:11-17?

Now what ever you do o foolish brakelite do NOT infer Pauls imprisonment was the result of some supernatural being who overcame Paul in his faith - that would be just stupid nonsense.

He was there because that's where God wanted him fullstop!

There is no other power in the world except for God and its His purpose to have Paul in prison for the benefit of the saints scattered abroad.

Can you see before Paul a fully-clothed and armoured Roman soldier?

Hence, "You see (these scrolls)? My 'sword' is mightier than your 'sword'!"

What does this mean for you Brakelite?

Well the context depicts the lesson being inferred.

Now Jesus provides further comfort to his remnant of believers throughout Asia Minor in Rev 2:10

Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil (false accusers) shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. (Revelation 2:10)

Now a foolish Christian mind would run away with themselves into all sort's of ungodly notions, none of which is inferred here.

Remember it was the religious authorities who killed the prophets and the disciples and apostles - even Christ himself was crucified by the Sanhedrin (Jews) and the Romans powers, principalities in high places!

So what is Jesus teaching the B&S a Smyrna?

Fact 1. He uses the word diabolos signifies false accuser.

Context: A warning against the civil authorities of Smyrna.

The Spirit warned that they would shortly engage upon a program of persecution of the local Ecclesia, falsely accusing member; of crimes they did not commit, and imprisoning them. In Eph 6:11, Paul makes reference to the civil authorities as the diabolos. In 1Pe 5:8, there is reference to "your adversary the devil" (diabolos). Here the word adversary is antidikos, and signifies an opponent αϊ law. Such opponents did not hesitate to falsely accuse the brethren, thus earning the title of diabolos. In the verse before us, they so succeeded in their legal charges against the brethren, as to secure their imprisonment.

The principle of Jesus' true disciples is found in 2 Tim 3:12

Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. (2 Timothy 3:12)

It is this persecution which the first century believers suffered at the hands of the authorities. Needful due to Acts 14:22

Of course Psa 34:19 "A righteous man may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all."

A personal note to Brakelite:

I am without doubt you have a sincere love of Jesus Christ - this cannot be questioned! What you lack is knowledge Hos 4:6 which will take many Christians before and after his coming. My warnings no doubt will fall on deaf ears as they did with Gods people Israel Isa 6:9

God bless your reading with prayer and may He lead you into truth and not be deceived in these dark days.
P.

I ask you to remember Bible Gazer, that this man does not acknowledge Christ's Deity!
He also denies Satan exists; and therefore by implication denies God's Plan for dealing with the "mystery of iniquity"!
He has refused to answer me when asked important questions on his own teachings. If he would answer them ,I would revise my thinking to attempt to bring him into Truth!
He thinks he is "reeling you in" for a landing, to use a fishing term.
Floyd.

 

[RANDOR]

You don't come to know God without coming to know your adversary.

Satan and his little idiots will do everything to keep one from knowing God.

For he (satan) knows when you come to know God...........you come to know him (satan)

But hey........if ya just think you know God..........satan remains happy happy happy


And he also knows when you come to know God.....God's word teaches His children now how to battle this peep squeak


So........those who do not believe in satan or hell..............that's exactly what the idiot wants.


hE HAS YA RIGHT WHERE hE WANTS YA...........and as long as you play his game........the more convinced you become in believing he doesn't exist.
Check Mate

 

[Floyd]

You don't come to know God without coming to know your adversary.

Satan and his little idiots will do everything to keep one from knowing God.

For he (satan) knows when you come to know God...........you come to know him (satan)

But hey........if ya just think you know God..........satan remains happy happy happy


And he also knows when you come to know God.....God's word teaches His children now how to battle this peep squeak


So........those who do not believe in satan or hell..............that's exactly what the idiot wants.


hE HAS YA RIGHT WHERE hE WANTS YA...........and as long as you play his game........the more convinced you become in believing he doesn't exist.

Check Mate

Good comment Randor!
Floyd.

 

[shturt678]

Thank you folks for caring!

Only one little itsy bitsy problem with the "devil," and that's he's bound in hell and must deceive through his agencies being the 2nd beast (Rev.13:11-18), the pseudo-prophet serving the 1st beast - not Satan, the "devil" himself.

Old Jack

 

[Jun2u]

Purity

First you claim there is a devil, then turn around and say, there is no personal, supernatural devil, that those who naively contend that the Scriptures teach that this monster exists. Which is it? Seems like a contradiction of terms to me.

Re 12:9 reads:
“ And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which
deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with
him.”

Re 20:2
“ And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan,
and bound him a thousand years,”

Who is telling the truth God or you?

To God Be The Glory

 

[Purity]

Purity

First you claim there is a devil, then turn around and say, there is no personal, supernatural devil, that those who naively contend that the Scriptures teach that this monster exists. Which is it? Seems like a contradiction of terms to me.

Re 12:9 reads:
“ And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which
deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with
him.”

Re 20:2
“ And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan,
and bound him a thousand years,”

Who is telling the truth God or you?

To God Be The Glory

The contradiction is discovered in understanding what the Scripture means by devil.

Go and find the false accuser in each context and allow the Word to guide you.

P.

 

[Floyd]

The contradiction is discovered in understanding what the Scripture means by devil.

Go and find the false accuser in each context and allow the Word to guide you.

P.

You refuse to learn Scripture!?


[SIZE=28pt]The father of Lies, John 8:44[/SIZE]


[SIZE=13.5pt]Jesus is speaking in this verse to the scribes and Pharisees. They had just claimed God as their father, but Jesus stated startlingly that Satan was their father! The reason for the statement, was their continual lying, and misuse of Scripture, together with their own writings, to support their falsehood, and their perverted leadership positions over the Jewish people. Jesus was also pointing to a greater fact, that the lying activity He highlighted in the perverse rulers of Israel, had been active "from the beginning" (John 8:44,) under the auspices of Satan![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]This begs the question from the sincere seeker as to how to know and discern Truth. It is clear from Jesus’ words that perversion of Truth has taken place since Eden, it is still taking place, and will continue to do so until Christ’s return to earth in Great Power! It is clearly implicit that Truth has to be worked at, and in 2Timothy 2:15, is explicit![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]In Rev. 14:5, the 144000, are declared without “the Lie,”[/SIZE][SIZE=13.5pt] this is the translation to the original manuscripts. These especially selected men, 12,000 from each of the Jewish 12 Tribes, have a particular function to perform for Almighty God. The fact that “the Lie” is not in them, emphasizes how wide spread and pervasive the Lie will become by that time. Again the obvious question is how to know Truth? An examination of the use of the word “Lie” in Rev.14:5, is a starting point.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]"The Lie;" the A.V. translates "no guile." The Interlinear manuscript Str. number (1388) renders "to decoy," "to trick," "deceit," "guile," "subtlety," from a root word (Str. 1185) "to entrap," "delude," "allure," "beguile," "entice." Dr. Bullinger gives "was not found the Lie," his deduction from ancient texts. The N.I.V. has "no Lie." J.N. Darby "no Lie." R.S.V. "no Lie." Revised Authorised "no guile." However, the Lie goes on. It has continued from Eve in various forms, and usually men and women find the Lie attractive in the form it is presented in their own life time. Instead of trusting, studying and teaching the Truth as God the Holy Spirit gives it in the Bible, it is perverted, modified etc., to suit the feelings, dogmas, motives and perversions of fallen mankind. The most prevalent currently is "there are many ways to God." This one appeases the world religions (all of Babylon,) and even the pastors, preachers, vicars etc. in the Western world are now exhorted by their colleges, seminaries etc., "not to create waves," by preaching Christ crucified, and the only way of Salvation, (Acts 4:12 and elsewhere.) This is the ultimate version of “the Lie[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt].”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]The “charismatic” effect is an example of one of "the variations of the Lie," that has permeated many mainline churches, i.e. Roman Catholic, C of E, Baptist, Methodist, Brethren, etc. and of course the Charismatic Churches as an offshoot of Pentecostals. Even some Alpha courses in some parts of the world have included a “spiritual” section, which is charismatic in all but name! The degree of penetration of this Lie, is often a function of the understanding and determination of the leadership. Truly spiritual leaders stand against the encroachment and the false claims of the adherents, and maintain the correct focus,Christ Crucified, Risen, and Returning to Earth at some stage in the future! See: [/SIZE] GIFTS AT PENTECOST [SIZE=medium] (Separate study)[/SIZE]


[SIZE=13.5pt]The many subtleties and variations of “the Lie,” are too numerous to list, and are in any case unknown. Satan's temptation of Eve and Adam in the Garden of Eden is the first recorded in this Creation. After the Flood, "the Lie" gathered new momentum at Babylon, via Nimrod and his mother, "the Lie" has continued since through all pagan religions, in all parts of the world. It is recorded in the Old Testament that Almighty God started to deal with this problem, by calling Abram out of Ur, which calling Abram could have refused in his God given free will. Abram obeyed God’s call, left his family and their pagan gods behind, and in that action became the “father of Israel” and followed the line of “faith from Abel," (Heb.11.) The flood was God’s dealing with the first perversion after Eden, He has stated that the next Retribution will be by fire (2 Peter 3:7.) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]Although the list of pagan/false christian religions is too numerous to make, there is however an underlying ethos in all of them, which for the seeker of truth must prayerfully be observed. All false religions, and false religious practices, demand adherence to a leadership WHICH MUST NOT BE QUESTIONED, which is the opposite to that which Christ gives, freedom! [/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]What they SAY in an interpretation or a rule must be adhered to! This principle of abdicating one's own mind and intelligence to the group leaders is the great controlling power, allowing erroneous and satanic groups to grow![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]All True and healthy groups in a Christian context, encourage study of a good translation of the Bible. Questions as they arise must not be suppressed, but debated openly, and in a spirit of love, bearing in mind constantly that The Truth of Almighty[/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]God is being handled![/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]In practice, although mostly good intentions are expressed, differences do arise, which is where a true test of The Spirit of Christ in a group is manifested, or otherwise![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]The situation in the world has probably never been more confusing for the “ seeker” than at the present time, (2014,) as the myriad of “churches, cults, groups, religions, spiritists, mediums, shamans, holy women, holy men, and many, many more, are all claiming truth![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]At the forefront are the “respectable churches,” one being the Roman Catholic Church. If they are examined to the principles above, they draw a zero rating, as they fail all the criteria of a true to the Bible group! For example, they demand complete obedience to the Priest, to his teaching, to his interpretation of the Bible, to his rules of worship, and among many other errors, his non Biblical teaching on many subjects, including the Pope, purgatory, hell, to name but a few. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]At the other end of the “Christendom” scale are the various cults, which have many and various teachings from the Bible, particularly the Gospels, which can seem to have veracity, especially for the vulnerable, and people under various troubles.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]What they all have in common is their dictation of the lives and minds of their members,[/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]who are not allowed to question the leaders “edicts and interpretations.” They go so far as to say in some current groups, that unless the person “can perform miracles, speaking in tongues (languages) other than the native, they are not saved!” Some years ago, this type of group, (Pentecostal, Charismatic etc.) did not make such a strong claim. They were content to pronounce that “some people had not received the “second blessing,” called by others “the Toronto blessing”, as its origin was Toronto, which created a two tier system within the group! They all misuse many Scriptures to try to enforce their claims, which will have its own reward, as is shown in Matt. 7:23.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]The end result of all the attempts by Satan to propagate “the Lie” in its many forms as partially described above, is “the Lake of Fire” in Rev. 20-15. However prior to that, Rev.14:9-11 comes into play![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]The point is that all the methods and variations of “the Lie” mean one thing only, those people BELONG TO SATAN, they are owned by him, and the later ones described in Revelation have his mark and worship him openly! Many will object, that they are worshiping God, and his Christ! If they have any doubt about that, and their controllers threaten “expulsion, or excommunication,” and will not let them question their teaching, they may eventually hear the words of Christ as recorded for prophecy by Him, Matt. 7:22-23![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]Many people will object, that this is too all embracing, and that there are many people who sincerely worship God and Christ, even though their leaders are either misguided, or ignorant, or deliberately misleading their adherents. That is a totally valid point, which when examining the “ordinary Jew” of Jesus’ day large numbers believed and were saved INDIVIDUALLY. The Lord is the only one that “knows the heart” of a person, and He is the final arbiter![/SIZE] Any grouping that proclaims Christ is not “The Son of God,” (God manifest in the flesh) but a created son, has God’s total condemnation. Some so called Christian groups teach such, a notable one being Jehovah's Witnesses. In all the mainline churches there are quite probably sincere Christians, but if that is the case, they will at some stage have to give account of their laxity of understanding etc., which quite possibly bears on their eternal condition!

[SIZE=13.5pt]The leaders have the greatest burden of Truth. The Shepherds of Israel have come into great judgment (yet future,) because of misguiding Israel! The leaders ever since are under the same watchful Eye of Almighty God for the same reason! All misuse of Scripture for Satan’s purpose will have terrible punishment! In this context, our Lord’s words in Matt. 7:22-23, regarding some people who claimed to be doing His work, i.e. prophesying, casting out demons, wonderful works in His name etc., will be told “to depart, I never knew you!”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]There are some leaders that say that we are still in the same times (Age) now as in the Acts period, and that the same rules apply. If that was the case, many Christians would die, almost as soon as they became Christians, as they would be convicted by the Holy Spirit in the same way as Ananias and Sapphira! (Acts 5:1-10.) Many of these same groups say that the conditions still apply as detailed in Mark 16:15-18, and fulfilled in Acts 5:12, and elsewhere in Acts, but they will not allow close inspection of the so-called powers of healing etc., which clearly proves the point of false claim![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]To arrive at Truth, always remembering that God knows all our true intentions, (our hearts,) we must study for ourselves from a good Bible translation. If we can find a Bible believing group we should join it, for study and worship, the group organization should allow open discussion on the Bible, and any other subject related. It should allow any genuine question on the groups teaching, principles, organization, activities etc. The group, or leaders should never demand obedience beyond normal good behaviour or manners. If claims or demands are made which do not appear to chime with reason, commonsense or the Bible, they should be challenged in open forum. The will of the individual should never be “subjected” to a person or group, except in openly approved, Christian “norms and principles” which are common to the group, and Posted and known prior to joining. In such a Christ centred atmosphere, growth of group and individual will flourish, and the Holy Spirit, the Comforter will be in the midst in Truth![/SIZE]

 

[shturt678]

You refuse to learn Scripture!?

[SIZE=28pt]The father of Lies, John 8:44[/SIZE]


[SIZE=13.5pt]Jesus is speaking in this verse to the scribes and Pharisees. They had just claimed God as their father, but Jesus stated startlingly that Satan was their father! The reason for the statement, was their continual lying, and misuse of Scripture, together with their own writings, to support their falsehood, and their perverted leadership positions over the Jewish people. Jesus was also pointing to a greater fact, that the lying activity He highlighted in the perverse rulers of Israel, had been active "from the beginning" (John 8:44,) under the auspices of Satan![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]This begs the question from the sincere seeker as to how to know and discern Truth. It is clear from Jesus’ words that perversion of Truth has taken place since Eden, it is still taking place, and will continue to do so until Christ’s return to earth in Great Power! It is clearly implicit that Truth has to be worked at, and in 2Timothy 2:15, is explicit![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]

In Rev. 14:5, the 144000, are declared without “the Lie,”

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt] this is the translation to the original manuscripts. These especially selected men, 12,000 from each of the Jewish 12 Tribes, have a particular function to perform for Almighty God.

[/SIZE]

12,000 from each of the Jewish 12 Tribes??? Are you sure??? (Rev.7:4-8) I wonder why the tribe of Dan is omitted??? I wonder why Levi is listed as an ordinary tribe? I wonder if the actual !2 Tribes are Reuben, Simeon, Manasseh, Judah, Zebulin, Isaachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphatali, Ehraim, and Benjamin? No Levi? I wonder if the 144,000 is a signified number of the completed Church at the end of time???

[SIZE=13.5pt]

The fact that “the Lie” is not in them, emphasizes how wide spread and pervasive the Lie will become by that time. Again the obvious question is how to know Truth? An examination of the use of the word “Lie” in Rev.14:5, is a starting point.

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]"The Lie;" the A.V. translates "no guile." The Interlinear manuscript Str. number (1388) renders "to decoy," "to trick," "deceit," "guile," "subtlety," from a root word (Str. 1185) "to entrap," "delude," "allure," "beguile," "entice." Dr. Bullinger gives "was not found the Lie," his deduction from ancient texts. The N.I.V. has "no Lie." J.N. Darby "no Lie." R.S.V. "no Lie." Revised Authorised "no guile." However, the Lie goes on. It has continued from Eve in various forms, and usually men and women find the Lie attractive in the form it is presented in their own life time. Instead of trusting, studying and teaching the Truth as God the Holy Spirit gives it in the Bible, it is perverted, modified etc., to suit the feelings, dogmas, motives and perversions of fallen mankind. The most prevalent currently is "there are many ways to God." This one appeases the world religions (all of Babylon,) and even the pastors, preachers, vicars etc. in the Western world are now exhorted by their colleges, seminaries etc., "not to create waves," by preaching Christ crucified, and the only way of Salvation, (Acts 4:12 and elsewhere.) This is the ultimate version of “the Lie[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt].”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]The “charismatic” effect is an example of one of "the variations of the Lie," that has permeated many mainline churches, i.e. Roman Catholic, C of E, Baptist, Methodist, Brethren, etc. and of course the Charismatic Churches as an offshoot of Pentecostals. Even some Alpha courses in some parts of the world have included a “spiritual” section, which is charismatic in all but name! The degree of penetration of this Lie, is often a function of the understanding and determination of the leadership. Truly spiritual leaders stand against the encroachment and the false claims of the adherents, and maintain the correct focus,Christ Crucified, Risen, and Returning to Earth at some stage in the future! See: [/SIZE] GIFTS AT PENTECOST [SIZE=medium] (Separate study)[/SIZE]


[SIZE=13.5pt]The many subtleties and variations of “the Lie,” are too numerous to list, and are in any case unknown. Satan's temptation of Eve and Adam in the Garden of Eden is the first recorded in this Creation. After the Flood, "the Lie" gathered new momentum at Babylon, via Nimrod and his mother, "the Lie" has continued since through all pagan religions, in all parts of the world. It is recorded in the Old Testament that Almighty God started to deal with this problem, by calling Abram out of Ur, which calling Abram could have refused in his God given free will. Abram obeyed God’s call, left his family and their pagan gods behind, and in that action became the “father of Israel” and followed the line of “faith from Abel," (Heb.11.) The flood was God’s dealing with the first perversion after Eden, He has stated that the next Retribution will be by fire (2 Peter 3:7.) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]Although the list of pagan/false christian religions is too numerous to make, there is however an underlying ethos in all of them, which for the seeker of truth must prayerfully be observed. All false religions, and false religious practices, demand adherence to a leadership WHICH MUST NOT BE QUESTIONED, which is the opposite to that which Christ gives, freedom! [/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]What they SAY in an interpretation or a rule must be adhered to! This principle of abdicating one's own mind and intelligence to the group leaders is the great controlling power, allowing erroneous and satanic groups to grow![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]All True and healthy groups in a Christian context, encourage study of a good translation of the Bible. Questions as they arise must not be suppressed, but debated openly, and in a spirit of love, bearing in mind constantly that The Truth of Almighty[/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]God is being handled![/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]In practice, although mostly good intentions are expressed, differences do arise, which is where a true test of The Spirit of Christ in a group is manifested, or otherwise![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]The situation in the world has probably never been more confusing for the “ seeker” than at the present time, (2014,) as the myriad of “churches, cults, groups, religions, spiritists, mediums, shamans, holy women, holy men, and many, many more, are all claiming truth![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]At the forefront are the “respectable churches,” one being the Roman Catholic Church. If they are examined to the principles above, they draw a zero rating, as they fail all the criteria of a true to the Bible group! For example, they demand complete obedience to the Priest, to his teaching, to his interpretation of the Bible, to his rules of worship, and among many other errors, his non Biblical teaching on many subjects, including the Pope, purgatory, hell, to name but a few. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]At the other end of the “Christendom” scale are the various cults, which have many and various teachings from the Bible, particularly the Gospels, which can seem to have veracity, especially for the vulnerable, and people under various troubles.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]What they all have in common is their dictation of the lives and minds of their members,[/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]who are not allowed to question the leaders “edicts and interpretations.” They go so far as to say in some current groups, that unless the person “can perform miracles, speaking in tongues (languages) other than the native, they are not saved!” Some years ago, this type of group, (Pentecostal, Charismatic etc.) did not make such a strong claim. They were content to pronounce that “some people had not received the “second blessing,” called by others “the Toronto blessing”, as its origin was Toronto, which created a two tier system within the group! They all misuse many Scriptures to try to enforce their claims, which will have its own reward, as is shown in Matt. 7:23.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]The end result of all the attempts by Satan to propagate “the Lie” in its many forms as partially described above, is “the Lake of Fire” in Rev. 20-15. However prior to that, Rev.14:9-11 comes into play![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]The point is that all the methods and variations of “the Lie” mean one thing only, those people BELONG TO SATAN, they are owned by him, and the later ones described in Revelation have his mark and worship him openly! Many will object, that they are worshiping God, and his Christ! If they have any doubt about that, and their controllers threaten “expulsion, or excommunication,” and will not let them question their teaching, they may eventually hear the words of Christ as recorded for prophecy by Him, Matt. 7:22-23![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]Many people will object, that this is too all embracing, and that there are many people who sincerely worship God and Christ, even though their leaders are either misguided, or ignorant, or deliberately misleading their adherents. That is a totally valid point, which when examining the “ordinary Jew” of Jesus’ day large numbers believed and were saved INDIVIDUALLY. The Lord is the only one that “knows the heart” of a person, and He is the final arbiter![/SIZE] Any grouping that proclaims Christ is not “The Son of God,” (God manifest in the flesh) but a created son, has God’s total condemnation. Some so called Christian groups teach such, a notable one being Jehovah's Witnesses. In all the mainline churches there are quite probably sincere Christians, but if that is the case, they will at some stage have to give account of their laxity of understanding etc., which quite possibly bears on their eternal condition!

[SIZE=13.5pt]The leaders have the greatest burden of Truth. The Shepherds of Israel have come into great judgment (yet future,) because of misguiding Israel! The leaders ever since are under the same watchful Eye of Almighty God for the same reason! All misuse of Scripture for Satan’s purpose will have terrible punishment! In this context, our Lord’s words in Matt. 7:22-23, regarding some people who claimed to be doing His work, i.e. prophesying, casting out demons, wonderful works in His name etc., will be told “to depart, I never knew you!”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]There are some leaders that say that we are still in the same times (Age) now as in the Acts period, and that the same rules apply. If that was the case, many Christians would die, almost as soon as they became Christians, as they would be convicted by the Holy Spirit in the same way as Ananias and Sapphira! (Acts 5:1-10.) Many of these same groups say that the conditions still apply as detailed in Mark 16:15-18, and fulfilled in Acts 5:12, and elsewhere in Acts, but they will not allow close inspection of the so-called powers of healing etc., which clearly proves the point of false claim![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]To arrive at Truth, always remembering that God knows all our true intentions, (our hearts,) we must study for ourselves from a good Bible translation. If we can find a Bible believing group we should join it, for study and worship, the group organization should allow open discussion on the Bible, and any other subject related. It should allow any genuine question on the groups teaching, principles, organization, activities etc. The group, or leaders should never demand obedience beyond normal good behaviour or manners. If claims or demands are made which do not appear to chime with reason, commonsense or the Bible, they should be challenged in open forum. The will of the individual should never be “subjected” to a person or group, except in openly approved, Christian “norms and principles” which are common to the group, and Posted and known prior to joining. In such a Christ centred atmosphere, growth of group and individual will flourish, and the Holy Spirit, the Comforter will be in the midst in Truth![/SIZE]

Old Jack's opinion

btw a lie told often enough becomes truth. I know. Before the Lord, i use to even lie about lying.

 

[Floyd]

You should know the answer to your questions Jack; if as you say you are "very old".

The OT (Old Testament) gives the answers in each case!

Floyd.



12,000 from each of the Jewish 12 Tribes??? Are you sure??? (Rev.7:4-8) I wonder why the tribe of Dan is omitted??? I wonder why Levi is listed as an ordinary tribe? I wonder if the actual !2 Tribes are Reuben, Simeon, Manasseh, Judah, Zebulin, Isaachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphatali, Ehraim, and Benjamin? No Levi? I wonder if the 144,000 is a signified number of the completed Church at the end of time???

 

[Bible_Gazer]

I ask you to remember Bible Gazer, that this man does not acknowledge Christ's Deity!
He also denies Satan exists; and therefore by implication denies God's Plan for dealing with the "mystery of iniquity"!
He has refused to answer me when asked important questions on his own teachings. If he would answer them ,I would revise my thinking to attempt to bring him into Truth!
He thinks he is "reeling you in" for a landing, to use a fishing term.
Floyd.

Hello Floyd
Thanks for your concern.
I am kinda new here and I don't really know yet how he believe in Jesus - oneness or duality or trinity or ten
About the Devil subject I don't really see it like he does, but I like to know his reasons.
But I do believe that man in the flesh can become a devil but not born a devil. Judas was a devil, he was called that by Jesus

 

[Floyd]

Hello Floyd
Thanks for your concern.
I am kinda new here and I don't really know yet how he believe in Jesus - oneness or duality or trinity or ten
About the Devil subject I don't really see it like he does, but I like to know his reasons.
But I do believe that man in the flesh can become a devil but not born a devil. Judas was a devil, he was called that by Jesus

OK BG; I understand; but beware of him, as he is leading people into destruction.
He consistently refuses answer my basic questions, formulated from his comments to me over many weeks; and they are from his teaching!!

These are:


Purity, on 24 May 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

If only you had 39 books to support your notions but you haven't one.

I only need one; The Bible!

It states clearly that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; which is where your apostasy is!
Watching your weasel words is like reading Gen..and Satan's words to Eve; "surely thou shalt not die"!
Ahh. but of course; you don't believe in Satan do you?
That means he never tempted Eve!
That means in your "theology" God introduced temptation and evil!???
That of course would not hold water! So where now your theology?

You say you "praise God regularly"; that means (if you tell the truth), that you "worship in spirit and in truth ( Jhn.4:23-24), unless the "one" you worship, is one of those that Jesus warned would be evident (false Christ's).
You said in an earlier post that you treat the Holy Spirit in the same way as Christ Jesus; ie deny their Deity!
In that case; you cannot "worship in spirit and in truth"; as "God is Spirit"!???

He also refutes what God has clearly stated in Eden/Gen.
This is recorded here.


Great Floyd - and you can believe whatever you want but the Scripture only ever attributes the serpent to be an animal:

Thank you for your permission to "believe what I want"; gracious of you!

Regarding Gen. statement re "the serpent"; Dr. Ginsburg gives clear understanding (as the world's foremost Hebrew Scholar of his day); that the Hebrew word "nachash" is interchangeable with "serpent"; and is so in many parts of Scripture! Satan had/has the ability to "transform" himself into an "angel of light",
and did so in Eden; to the awe of Eve!
So; your "teaching" is in gross error, re Satan's abilities (and freedoms of action), which he exercised in Eden. If you challenge this; you challenge Scholars who are accepted world wide!
Over to you on this one!



2 Cor 11:3 But I(Paul) am afraid that just as the serpent deceived Eve by his treachery, your minds may be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

Explained above.
Your mind Floyd has been carried away and deceived with notions of devils.

No Purity; your's is by Satan!
Paul mentions nothing of this creature here but attributes the suggestive thoughts introduce to Eve were from an animal with voice.

Explained above.

Cunning - "Panourgia" (lit, "all working"; crafty, clever, always thinking about how to "trick" someone else) has its roots in Eden.

No; its roots are in Satan and his rebellion against God (you have been given these refs.)

And it is appropriate to men who are the seed of the serpent.

There are not any "seed of the serpent"; in the physical sense; but there are in the metaphoric; which is why you are in danger; unless you repent; accept the Deity of Christ; and beg forgiveness!

Floyd

 

[Purity]

Hello Floyd
Thanks for your concern.
I am kinda new here and I don't really know yet how he believe in Jesus - oneness or duality or trinity or ten
About the Devil subject I don't really see it like he does, but I like to know his reasons.
But I do believe that man in the flesh can become a devil but not born a devil. Judas was a devil, he was called that by Jesus

Hi Gazer,

Do you believe Judas was an actual devil - a supernatural demonic monster whom the Lord God chose?

P.

 

[brakelite]

Purity. One thing I will give you. You are extremely skillful in introducing straw-man arguments and making your opposers look ignorant. Your focus on the physical realities of Rome and the false accusers of the Jewish elites as if I was not aware of their existence and the manner in which you presented it as if you were providing some new revelation to me of which I had been previously ignorant was a great piece of literary prose and you have my highest commendation.

But I won't fall for it.

All you are saying is that any time the devil is referred to it means a physical entity of this world. Frankly, that is utter nonsense. On a certain number of accasions a person was referred to as being the 'devil', eg Judas and Peter (get behind me Satan) but what Jesus was intending on these occasions was to emphasize one thing... men (and women) may easily be led to be the devil's pawns in this life, (eg also pagan Rome, the Sannhedrin, the RCC and I believe yourself and the Christadelphian teachings to which I understand you adhere to). None of this makes the reality of Satan and his fallen angels any less real. Nor does it make those of us who have experienced that reality in this life "Biblically ignorant" or phsychologically challenged because we somehow don't understand what we are witnessing. On the contrary. Those of us who have had the fortune, ( or misfortune depending on one's perspective) to indeed witness supernatural activity have an advantage for we more fully understand the extent, power, influence, and source of much of this world's evil, and are thus far more prepared to defend against it and be of real asistsance to others who are experiencing spiritual attacks from an enemy who is relentless in his pursuit, crafty in his cunning, spiteful in his hatred, and evil in every way. And will use anything and anyone in pursuit of his goals and ambitions. Including the innocent. My assertion that there is a spiritual war all around us between the powers of darkness and of Light stands. Though darkness cannot penetrate light, yet darkness exists where light is refused entry. Time for you to lay down your notions and man-made ideas and dogmas and surrender to the Light, Jesus the Christ, your Creator, your Savior, and Who is coming again to seperate the tares from the wheat and bundle them up to destroy them in the fire prepared for the devil and his angels; the wheat to take home with Him where they shall rule and reign with HIm till the new heavens and the new earth are created in righteousness and true holiness.