The Devil

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Purity

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The Devil

Preliminary Considerations

The need for a positive approach

There is a devil. Let this be stated categorically at the outset. The New Testament contains so many references to the devil, and the works of the devil that we cannot reasonably deny this proposition.

We know, of course, that there is no personal, supernatural devil, and it is sometimes necessary for us to join issue with those who naively contend that the Scriptures teach that this monster exists. But we are ourselves being unscriptural when we say that there is no devil at all. Do we seriously imagine that no positive purpose was intended by the inclusion in the New Testament of so many passages concerning the devil? Surely they are designed to teach us something, and not just to embarrass us; and we must be missing important truths if our only interest in these passages is to explain them away.

It will be necessary, in the course of our discussion of this subject, to demonstrate the falseness of the traditional belief that the devil is a superhuman being: but we shall not stop there. Our main purpose will be to gather together the available scriptural material and move towards some positive conclusions.

It comes as a surprise to some people to learn that the first occurrence of the word devil in the Bible is in Matt. 4:1 : “Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.”

Devil is a New Testament word, and the subject is, for the most part, a New Testament subject. Like all New Testament subjects, however, it has its roots in the Old Testament, and our investigation must take Old and New Testament teaching into account.

First, we must clear the ground by distinguishing between two Greek words that are both translated devil in the Authorized Version. The word with which we are primarily concerned is diabolos, but the word daimonion is also frequently translated devil in the A.V. Two different Greek words are thus translated by the same English word. This is unfortunate, and has caused a lot of confusion. It would have been far more satisfactory if the translators had translated daimonion by its obvious derivative, demon, and only used the word devil when the original word was diabolos. The R.S.V. translators have done this, and any doubt can be quickly cleared up by referring to this translation.

The A.V. translators have created an unnecessary difficulty, but it is not an insuperable one, even without the help of other versions. A comparison of two sets of passages will demonstrate the difference between the two words.

Some passages in which the original word for “devil” is “diabolos”

Matt. 4:1: “Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.”

Matt. 13:39: “The enemy that sowed them (the tares) is the devil.”

John 8:44: “Ye are of your father the devil.”

Heb. 2:14: “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil.”

James 4:7: “Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”

Some passages in which the original word for “devil” is “daimonion”1

Matt. 7:22: “In thy name have (we) cast out devils.”

Matt. 12:27: “If I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out?”

Luke 4:33: “And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice.”

John 8:48: “Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan and hast a devil?”

1 Cor. 10:21: “Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils.”

The following differences will be noted:

Diabolos

1. Nearly always used in the singular. The three exceptions are: 1 Tim. 3:11; 2 Tim. 3:3; Titus 2:3.

2. Nearly always the devil. The one exception is John 6:70 where Judas is called a devil.

3. The great enemy of God, and tempter of man.

Daimonion

Usually plural.

Usually a (not the) devil, when singular.

The word is applied to malignant influences associated with certain ailments and, occasionally, certain forms of wickedness.

Although the words diabolos and daimonion are different, and should have been translated differently, there is an association of ideas. However, this is not immediately relevant, though we hope to return to the matter later.

The Accuser

To some readers, the study of word meanings is a tedious business. Indeed, it can be overdone, but there are occasions when it is unavoidable. A quick comment then concerning the word diabolos.

Diabolos is compounded of two Greek words: dia (through), and ballo (to throw). The devil is one who throws, or strikes, through. The attack is usually verbal: ho diabolos, the devil, is an accuser, or slanderer.

Reference has been made to three passages where, unexpectedly, the word diabolos is used in the plural. It is worth noting that the word is translated slanderers in the first of these passages, and false accusers in the other two.

“Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things” (1 Tim. 3:11).

“This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be . . . without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good” (2 Tim. 3:1–3).

“The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers . . .” (Titus 2:3).

An inspection of passages in which the original word is diabolos has revealed that, in normal New Testament usage, the word is applied to the great enemy of God and the great tempter of man.

We now take into account the fact that the name given to this power is The Accuser. There must be a good reason for this name. As we proceed to collect information concerning this hostile power, we must keep this name in mind and see if we can discover why the enemy should be called Ho diabolos—The Accuser.
 

Purity

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I think some good examples of "accuser" can be found in Job
Yes I agree. The adverse spirit of his three friends was made evident in their council. Did you notice how the adversary focuses in on Job's possession?

Job 1:10 (hedged about)
Job 1:11 (touch all his possessions)

I laugh when people try to convince me a supernatural evil being would be concerned at how many sheep Job had...gives me belly laughs.
 

Bible_Gazer

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Hello Purity

If the devil is the flesh(human)

Was The Accuser that came to Jesus in the wilderness someone else ?

Also are you saying that devils(demons) are The Accusers ? How do they process people ?

How are The Accuser or The Accusers cast out of people if it is not a living thingy ?

If The Accuser is our mind(carnal) then it would be nice to go to a minister and have them cast out from our heart and we would be sinless.
 

RANDOR

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Well.........there is a satan and definitely there is a hell............for you can see these things if you draw nye to God.


Lets say I want to take up skiing.................but all I do is buy the equipment, buy all the books on skiing, talk to my buddies all day about skiing....


But I never go skiing...

So, without really experiencing sking all I can do is talk about it....and those who ski all the time know in minutes I don't have a clue about skiing.


I've seen plenty of demons.....oh Randor.....not this again..........

Action.............do you want to talk the rest of your lives about which scripture says there is a devil...and this one says no...wait a minute ...this scritpure says there is no devil if read this way or that.

Apparently.......those who don't believe in hell or satan have never been in a situation where thier fantasy thinking becomes reality.

You need to step out...........and quit reading the directions..............and just build the darn thing.

Satan will always let you play in his playground.............but will never open his kingdom to your (heathen) eyes

Haven't seen a demon................go find one.
 

Purity

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Bible_Gazer said:
Hello Purity

If the devil is the flesh(human)
Yes Paul and others style human nature as the devil - its the lust power in our nature (weak flesh) which Christ destroyed through his death Heb 2:14

Was The Accuser that came to Jesus in the wilderness someone else ?
Two possibilities

1. His own carnal thoughts prompting him to sin Heb 4:15
2. It could well have been members of the Sanhedrin even the High Priest himself.

I have some extensive studies on this subject if you would like to read them.

I am not dogmatic concerning this study.

Also are you saying that devils(demons) are The Accusers ? How do they process people ?
What we would consider illnesses today they likened to demons and evil spirits.

How are The Accuser or The Accusers cast out of people if it is not a living thingy ?
Jesus healed people of their illnesses - Mary Magdalene is a great example - healed of seven evil spirits, or in other words, her illness was so severe it is said to have bene completely debilitating.

If The Accuser is our mind(carnal) then it would be nice to go to a minister and have them cast out from our heart and we would be sinless.
The flesh and mind are one as described by Paul.

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. (Romans 7:14)

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(Romans 8:7)

Paul here shows that mutual hatred exists between the "thinking of the flesh" and the "thinking of the spirit". It is a struggle that began in Eden and will continue until victory is finally achieved for all God's faithful servants - as it has already been revealed in His righteous and glorified Son.

The "enmity" in Eden revealed the refusal of Yahweh to countenance sin, and acknowledged that the ongoing warfare that was then introduced would continue between the two "seeds" until ultimately Truth would completely destroy error.
There is no peace nor true fellowship with God when the carnal mind ("the mind of the flesh") dominates a person.
 

Madad21

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Purity said:
2. It could well have been members of the Sanhedrin even the High Priest himself.
I have some extensive studies on this subject if you would like to read them.
I would like to see your extensive studies that suggest that it could have been the sanhedrin or the High priest that came to him in the desert to tempt him and where in the Bible that is even remotely suggested.

Thanks :) :D
 

nothead

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Purity said:
Yes I agree. The adverse spirit of his three friends was made evident in their council. Did you notice how the adversary focuses in on Job's possession?

Job 1:10 (hedged about)
Job 1:11 (touch all his possessions)

I laugh when people try to convince me a supernatural evil being would be concerned at how many sheep Job had...gives me belly laughs.

The number of sheep Job had relates to his own sense of security. The Devil would like for us to be bereft of true security, and full of a sense of false security. For the Jew, true security was concretely "many sheep," so I don't laugh when I read about a NUMBER of sheep the Devil is concerned we have...whether this entity is a Person, spirit or self-evil spirit or principality.

Secondly your use of the word 'supernatural' may be why I flinch when I read it. Plz expound the meaning of this word to you.
 

Bible_Gazer

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Purity

So you think:
17 works of the flesh and such like Gal.5 - is the devil
evil works in Romans 1 is - the devil
sickness from the mental state - is the devil
carnal mind - is the devil
Evil Kings and or leader. false religion including idols -are called devils in the bible
sin nature - is the devil
the old man - is the devil
So actually all in Adam is a devil because they all die in Adam ?
 

Purity

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Purity

So you think:
17 works of the flesh and such like Gal.5 - is the devil
evil works in Romans 1 is - the devil
sickness from the mental state - is the devil
carnal mind - is the devil
Evil Kings and or leader. false religion including idols -are called devils in the bible
sin nature - is the devil
the old man - is the devil
So actually all in Adam is a devil because they all die in Adam ?
Yup.

That which falsely accusers us before God is the devil...can you not sin? Could you determine to never sin the remaining days of your life?

you answer is the reason its called the devil - the weak flesh accusers us falsely before God.

Does anyone in this forum have any say in the nature they were given?

Can anyone in this forum do anything about their nature?

Heb 2:14,15 is answer.
The number of sheep Job had relates to his own sense of security. The Devil would like for us to be bereft of true security, and full of a sense of false security. For the Jew, true security was concretely "many sheep," so I don't laugh when I read about a NUMBER of sheep the Devil is concerned we have...whether this entity is a Person, spirit or self-evil spirit or principality.

Secondly your use of the word 'supernatural' may be why I flinch when I read it. Plz expound the meaning of this word to you.
Nothead,

Supernatural: of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

If you approach the subject of fallen angels as you do the Shema - very quickly you will see this teaching as being incomprehensible.

Can divine nature sin? If you say yes then your reward is tainted and it is no reward at all. If yes, then God can be tempted with evil because the angels are the Elohim of Yahweh and behold His face.

Only two forces at work in the earth - natural and spiritual - for now the Spiritual forces which are of God allow the Kingdoms of men to rule in the absence of He who will take the throne of David.

So when I say there are no evil supernatural (spiritual) forces I mean it is impossible for there to be any other power anywhere except God. Rom 13:1

I cannot imagine the fear of suggesting otherwise.

P.
I would like to see your extensive studies that suggest that it could have been the sanhedrin or the High priest that came to him in the desert to tempt him and where in the Bible that is even remotely suggested.

Thanks :) :D
Mazda,

I will dig it out - but please remember its not a subject I will debate :)

P.
 

RANDOR

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Personally.......I...me...myself................could careless to see your intense studies.

I can't seem to understand any of this......QUOTE::::::"What we would consider illnesses today they likened to demons and evil spirits."
Holy Mackeral!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come on people.....................for Christs sake...................please.....

I'm about to give up here, I'm sure many here wish I would..................you guys only speak of what you have studied.


What we would consider illnesses today they likened to demons and evil spirits.
Are you serious............?

Come on jw's....................and come on Christians.....................

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I tell you demons are real.............................delt with them for half my life........................

Yes...they wouldn't like anything more than for you guys to just study them...then to actually see one.

A hard headed people

If you were where I'm at......I'd pull ya by the ears and say......................look.....look....look at that.....what is that? what did you just see?
What was that?

YOU'RE MOUTH WOULD DROP ON YOUR SHOES.......you would say....that...that...that thatthat.....was a demon.

HA.................................then your silly scripture interpretations....would be ready for the toilet.

There is a war going on right in front of your faces..........................but you be still blind.

jw's are like over protected kids......................now children stay close to the house...........don't wander off.

I know it's not the jw's (people) fault.................but they have taken everything hook line and sinker.....and by god they aint budgin.

Remember............it's the false teachings that have dictated the way you live and believe.

No wonder you would believe there is no hell....or illnesses today they likened to demons and evil spirits....

THAT'S A FLAT OUT LIE THAT YOU HAVE EATIN EVERYDAY.

jw's.....come over to my place...................i'll show ya some demon's....better yet I'll show ya JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jw's I graduated a long long time ago.... I see you're still in class......are you really ready to take this test?
I say not
 

Purity

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Madad21 said:
I would like to see your extensive studies that suggest that it could have been the sanhedrin or the High priest that came to him in the desert to tempt him and where in the Bible that is even remotely suggested.



Thanks :) :D
Just as God tested Israel His firstborn nation 40 years (Deut 8:3) in the wilderness, so God tested his beloved Son 40 days. Sadly for Israel all ended without the intended perfection achieved. Unlike Abraham & Isaac Heb 11:17 as a wonderful rich example of God and Jesus, the Jews had always proven themselves to be Matt 16:4.

Being tempted of the devil has two possibilities.

1. An external distraction of some kind

2. Or human nature 1 Peter 4:1

The devil is also called the "tempter" in Mat 4:3, and "Satan" in Mar 1:13. Possibly a member of the delegation from the High Priest and other authorities (cp Mat 3:7), who see Christ baptized, anointed as the "Lamb of God" (John 1:29), and hope to find a way to neutralize his influence: 'Come, join with us, and you will "succeed" far beyond your expectations!'

If in fact someone came to investigate Jesus' credentials as his reputation was becoming heard afar off. We know that they also came to see how John Baptist was and in fact if he is the Christ. Cp John 1:19: "Now this was John's testimony when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was." This could have led, directly, to their need to "examine" the would-be "Messiah" to whom John pointed (John 1:23-29).

What is interesting about the reference of “tempter” in the gospels are all external tempters: Mat 16:1; 19:3; 22:15-18; 26:59-63; John 8:6; Luke 11:15,16.

The background events leading up to His temptation are of interest. We see John actively preaching about Jesus role in this divinely appointed process.

The following passage trial is presented to build a background of events leading up to these temptations. The scriptures are certainly written for our learning and investigation can prove very useful.

Please read:

Matt 3:1-11

Mark 1:1-11

Luke 3:2-23

John 1:19-34

In these passages let us connect the dots so to speak – I think you will find this an interesting exercise, one which will open the Scriptures for us.

The word of God came to John and he was found preaching around the wilderness of Judea. The message that John preached was the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. We are told the “ALL the land of Judea, and they of Jerusalem, ALL the region round about Jordon were baptised in the river Jordon. Amongst “the multitude” that came out to be baptised it makes special mention of the “Pharisees and Sadducees”. The religious leaders were always in and around John as he drew immense crowds away from the temple and synagogues and John couldn’t be all that popular with the elders.

Imagine if one emptied your church? How popular would he be?

John was unaware who the messiah was, but preached about his coming and what his position would be in Israel.

The Jews, obviously the religious leaders, sent priests and Levites to try and find out who John the Baptist was. They specially were trying to find out if he was the Messiah. It must be remembered both John’s and Jesus births were remembered by all. Both Matt 2 and Like 2 would relate many things surrounding this time period. All of these events would be filling the minds of all when John bursts upon the scene with his thundering message of a coming Messiah. It was all of this that was behind their interrogation of John.

IMPORTANT: Why did the Pharisees question John the Baptist? Read Deut 18.

Especially Deut 18:15,16,17,18,19,20.

All of a sudden Jesus comes on the scene who is to be even more righteous than John – and after some discussion John agrees to baptised Jesus and so Gods declaration of “Thou are my beloved son; in thee I am well pleased” must have been spread abroad.

The questions that came to John came as a result of the great hype surrounding Jesus the one who he prophesied. The question I ask you here is why were these leaders so compelled to chase down John the Baptist and Jesus Christ to establish who they are?

Do you think its a question worthy of an answer?

I believe the Law of Moses demanded action of them based on Deut 18:9-22 they were obeying the command to establish, if in fact, this Jesus was the promised Messiah, the one greater than Moses.

REMEMBER DUET 18 commanded that false prophets should be put to death!

The Jews had two options only. If Jesus was a prophet like unto Moses then he must be followed, if not they must put him to death. Ever wondered why they continually ask Jesus for a sign? Because Jesus had to pass their test to see if he was the Christ. Matt 12:38-39 Matt 16:1,4 Acts 4:16

To me it makes perfect sense that God would allow his son 40 days before being tested to see if in fact he is the promised Messiah.

It worthy of noting that Jesus, in this instance performed none of the signs being requested.

1. Stone into bread

2. Taking the Kingdom of God to himself

3. Provoking God to protect him should he cast himself from the pinnacle of the Temple.

What is also interesting about the language concerning these temptations.

“If thou be the son of God” Matt 27:40 the exact same phrase is used and spoken of by whom at the foot of the cross?

Matt 27:39,40,41,42

The Chief Priest and his supporters.
 

Madad21

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thanks I shall enjoy it without threat of debate ;)


................in the debate forum
 

RANDOR

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JUST LIKE I SAID ABOVE.

I'm not pickin on ya....but you start a thread which you know nothing about.........but this devil sure knows you...and sayzzzzzzzzzz
THAT'S MY BOY!
 

Purity

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RANDOR said:
JUST LIKE I SAID ABOVE.

I'm not pickin on ya....but you start a thread which you know nothing about.........but this devil sure knows you...and sayzzzzzzzzzz
THAT'S MY BOY!
Randor - this discussion has well past you as it did Floyd - those left are truth seekers.
 

RANDOR

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Purity said:
Randor - this discussion has well past you as it did Floyd - those left are truth seekers.
Purity.............yep...did these studies almost thirty years ago............Hey............I know you're trying to seek the truth and all....I was just tryin to save ya some time.
But hey..........carry on :)
But on a more serious note......you guys trying to tell me about satan......is like trying to think what that ant that just walked by my boot is thinkin.
 

truthquest

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RANDOR said:
Well.........there is a satan and definitely there is a hell............for you can see these things if you draw nye to God.


Lets say I want to take up skiing.................but all I do is buy the equipment, buy all the books on skiing, talk to my buddies all day about skiing....


But I never go skiing...

So, without really experiencing sking all I can do is talk about it....and those who ski all the time know in minutes I don't have a clue about skiing.


I've seen plenty of demons.....oh Randor.....not this again..........

Action.............do you want to talk the rest of your lives about which scripture says there is a devil...and this one says no...wait a minute ...this scritpure says there is no devil if read this way or that.

Apparently.......those who don't believe in hell or satan have never been in a situation where thier fantasy thinking becomes reality.

You need to step out...........and quit reading the directions..............and just build the darn thing.

Satan will always let you play in his playground.............but will never open his kingdom to your (heathen) eyes

Haven't seen a demon................go find one.
Randor I don't think I would want anybody to see what I've seen or experience the things that I have. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. I certainly wouldn't go looking for a demon. Things I have seen that would make the worst horror movie look like a cartoon. But what I would want is for people to be awake and aware to the truth of this. And most especially to know what to do if it happens to them which is to pray to God for help and protection.
 

RANDOR

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truthquest said:
Randor I don't think I would want anybody to see what I've seen or experience the things that I have. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. I certainly wouldn't go looking for a demon. Things I have seen that would make the worst horror movie look like a cartoon. But what I would want is for people to be awake and aware to the truth of this. And most especially to know what to do if it happens to them which is to pray to God for help and protection.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now that's what I'm talkin about.......thank you for sharing. I agree I wouldn't want my worst enemy to experience all the things I've witnessed either.
But there are those who study......and their are those (US) that do.

I'm sorry truthquest you had to see what you saw.............................but..............darn it................IT STRENGTHENED YOUR FAITH.

No one can tell you otherwise.......

I've always said......."You don't come to meet the Father without meeting your adversary" The Lord teaches you how to battle and not negociate with the devil.

These poor jw's.................if only they knew....................they would be given us big hugs..FOR SAVING THIER LIVES.
 

Purity

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The delusion is strong and only gaining strength in these last days before he comes...the apostasy will be speaking of all manner of spirits and idolatry, yes, even the image of man will be standing upon its feet ready for the stone cut without hands.

P.
 

RANDOR

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Purity said:
The delusion is strong and only gaining strength in these last days before he comes...the apostasy will be speaking of all manner of spirits and idolatry, yes, even the image of man will be standing upon its feet ready for the stone cut without hands.

P.
Purity..........I liked that...thanks