The Devil

[Purity]

Purity. One thing I will give you. You are extremely skillful in introducing straw-man arguments and making your opposers look ignorant. Your focus on the physical realities of Rome and the false accusers of the Jewish elites as if I was not aware of their existence and the manner in which you presented it as if you were providing some new revelation to me of which I had been previously ignorant was a great piece of literary prose and you have my highest commendation.

But I won't fall for it.

I am teaching you how to be an effective contextual studier of Gods Word...I would prefer your appreciation be manifested in listening and taking the correct lead rather than giving m,e inference upon inference.

All you are saying is that any time the devil is referred to it means a physical entity of this world. Frankly, that is utter nonsense. On a certain number of accasions a person was referred to as being the 'devil', eg Judas and Peter (get behind me Satan)

Hold on - have you changed his name from adversary to false accuser? Who said you could do that Brakelite? Judas was a false accuser but Peter an adversary...how so?

If only your ignorance could be shelved for a minute you would see why these descriptive words were used in their given context.

but what Jesus was intending on these occasions was to emphasize one thing... men (and women) may easily be led to be the devil's pawns in this life, (eg also pagan Rome, the Sannhedrin, the RCC and I believe yourself and the Christadelphian teachings to which I understand you adhere to). None of this makes the reality of Satan and his fallen angels any less real. Nor does it make those of us who have experienced that reality in this life "Biblically ignorant" or phsychologically challenged because we somehow don't understand what we are witnessing. On the contrary.

Yes men are woman are easily lead by the flesh and all of Jesus' teachings and parables are to do with fighting against ones self!

How can an angel fall Brakelite when they always do the will of their Father? Foolish nonsense you speak.

Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word. (Psalms 103:20)

And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. (Hebrews 1:7)

Brakelite you would even taint your own reward by suggesting Angels can and would sin? Divine nature sinning - are you for real?

Whatever Scriptures you think supports this false teaching you have totally missundestaood its meaning. You need to find another way to construct your Satan theory but hands of the Elohim they are pure beings who always and I mean always do the Will of the Father -

I have to chuckle here though Brakelite.

Can you imagine on of the disciple's after Jesus had taught them to pray....

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. (Matthew 6:10)

Brakelite responds to his Lord - "Yeah, But Lord wasn't there open rebellion in Heaven? - how can you ask for His Will to be done on earth, if He cannot keep order in Heaven?"

To which the Lord responds....Luk 21:8

Your teaching's don't fit Brakelite and you know it!

Those of us who have had the fortune, ( or misfortune depending on one's perspective) to indeed witness supernatural activity have an advantage for we more fully understand the extent, power, influence, and source of much of this world's evil, and are thus far more prepared to defend against it and be of real asistsance to others who are experiencing spiritual attacks from an enemy who is relentless in his pursuit, crafty in his cunning, spiteful in his hatred, and evil in every way. And will use anything and anyone in pursuit of his goals and ambitions. Including the innocent. My assertion that there is a spiritual war all around us between the powers of darkness and of Light stands. Though darkness cannot penetrate light, yet darkness exists where light is refused entry. Time for you to lay down your notions and man-made ideas and dogmas and surrender to the Light, Jesus the Christ, your Creator, your Savior, and Who is coming again to seperate the tares from the wheat and bundle them up to destroy them in the fire prepared for the devil and his angels; the wheat to take home with Him where they shall rule and reign with HIm till the new heavens and the new earth are created in righteousness and true holiness.

This can be ignored on the basis of your lack of understanding concerning Angels, God, Heaven Realm and the sole opposition to God in the earth.

Your teaching always contradicts Scriptures.

P.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

Hi Gazer,

Do you believe Judas was an actual devil - a supernatural demonic monster whom the Lord God chose?

P.

no scripture for "supernatural demonic monster"

Yes I do believe Judas was a devil, when he became one I do not know.
Judas was the chosen one that would betray Jesus.
There was prophecy about a person that would betray Jesus and about his death.

A devil is personal title given to being who reject God's ways and choose to do wickedness willingly on their own.

So Judas was not a good person and he got worse and eventually he by his wrong doing became a devil.
And what do devils do - they sin.

All devil are sinners.

1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

this is also the answer to Heb.2:14 - he came to destroy the works of the devil .

death don't sin
disease don't sin
stone or wood or metal idol don't sin - they are objects

Living being sin

So to me a devil is a living being that sin - break the laws of God.

Not everybody is a devil - they may act like one or do the work of it.
They are not a devil until God put that title on them, we cannot do that.

 

[Purity]

this is also the answer to Heb.2:14 - he came to destroy the works of the devil .

I was waiting for this to present - thank you

Gal 2:16KJV
Gal 5:19KJV
Gal 5:20KJV
Gal 5:21KJV

Learn Gazer...learn.

 

[brakelite]

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,.........

Quote Purity.....How can an angel fall Brakelite when they always do the will of their Father? Foolish nonsense you speak.

Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word. (Psalms 103:20)

And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. (Hebrews 1:7)

Brakelite you would even taint your own reward by suggesting Angels can and would sin? Divine nature sinning - are you for real?

Whatever Scriptures you think supports this false teaching you have totally missundestaood its meaning. You need to find another way to construct your Satan theory but hands of the Elohim they are pure beings who always and I mean always do the Will of the Father -


8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 ¶ Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.



2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.....

 

[Floyd]

Purity. One thing I will give you. You are extremely skillful in introducing straw-man arguments and making your opposers look ignorant. Your focus on the physical realities of Rome and the false accusers of the Jewish elites as if I was not aware of their existence and the manner in which you presented it as if you were providing some new revelation to me of which I had been previously ignorant was a great piece of literary prose and you have my highest commendation.

But I won't fall for it.

All you are saying is that any time the devil is referred to it means a physical entity of this world. Frankly, that is utter nonsense. On a certain number of accasions a person was referred to as being the 'devil', eg Judas and Peter (get behind me Satan) but what Jesus was intending on these occasions was to emphasize one thing... men (and women) may easily be led to be the devil's pawns in this life, (eg also pagan Rome, the Sannhedrin, the RCC and I believe yourself and the Christadelphian teachings to which I understand you adhere to). None of this makes the reality of Satan and his fallen angels any less real. Nor does it make those of us who have experienced that reality in this life "Biblically ignorant" or phsychologically challenged because we somehow don't understand what we are witnessing. On the contrary. Those of us who have had the fortune, ( or misfortune depending on one's perspective) to indeed witness supernatural activity have an advantage for we more fully understand the extent, power, influence, and source of much of this world's evil, and are thus far more prepared to defend against it and be of real asistsance to others who are experiencing spiritual attacks from an enemy who is relentless in his pursuit, crafty in his cunning, spiteful in his hatred, and evil in every way. And will use anything and anyone in pursuit of his goals and ambitions. Including the innocent. My assertion that there is a spiritual war all around us between the powers of darkness and of Light stands. Though darkness cannot penetrate light, yet darkness exists where light is refused entry. Time for you to lay down your notions and man-made ideas and dogmas and surrender to the Light, Jesus the Christ, your Creator, your Savior, and Who is coming again to seperate the tares from the wheat and bundle them up to destroy them in the fire prepared for the devil and his angels; the wheat to take home with Him where they shall rule and reign with HIm till the new heavens and the new earth are created in righteousness and true holiness.

Well said Brakelight; I agree he is skilful!
I hoped at the beginning of our encounter, that I would be able, with Scripture, to turn his mind to Truth; but to no avail!
When I have confronted him with his own teaching; and asked for explanation, he has ignored the request!
What standout to me, is that a genuine person would answer; and/or would be ashamed to be seen as an obdurate cynic!
This latter approach has not had any effect on him, so I am fearful that this man is a cognisant agent of our great enemy!
Because of this; I feel duty bound to warn others who may be gullible to his approach; and be led into perdition!

You are right; there is a spiritual war ongoing all around us (Eph.6); and I am glad you have perceived this mans allegiance.

For the record; the following is what I have been asking him to answer for some weeks now:


Purity, on 24 May 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

If only you had 39 books to support your notions but you haven't one.

I only need one; The Bible!

It states clearly that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; which is where your apostasy is!
Watching your weasel words is like reading Gen..and Satan's words to Eve; "surely thou shalt not die"!
Ahh. but of course; you don't believe in Satan do you?
That means he never tempted Eve!
That means in your "theology" God introduced temptation and evil!???
That of course would not hold water! So where now your theology?

You say you "praise God regularly"; that means (if you tell the truth), that you "worship in spirit and in truth ( Jhn.4:23-24), unless the "one" you worship, is one of those that Jesus warned would be evident (false Christ's).
You said in an earlier post that you treat the Holy Spirit in the same way as Christ Jesus; ie deny their Deity!
In that case; you cannot "worship in spirit and in truth"; as "God is Spirit"!???
Floyd.

 

[brakelite]

Well said Brakelight; I agree he is skilful!
I hoped at the beginning of our encounter, that I would be able, with Scripture, to turn his mind to Truth; but to no avail!
When I have confronted him with his own teaching; and asked for explanation, he has ignored the request!
What standout to me, is that a genuine person would answer; and/or would be ashamed to be seen as an obdurate cynic!
This latter approach has not had any effect on him, so I am fearful that this man is a cognisant agent of our great enemy!
Because of this; I feel duty bound to warn others who may be gullible to his approach; and be led into perdition!

You are right; there is a spiritual war ongoing all around us (Eph.6); and I am glad you have perceived this mans allegiance.

For the record; the following is what I have been asking him to answer for some weeks now:


Purity, on 24 May 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

I only need one; The Bible!

It states clearly that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; which is where your apostasy is!
Watching your weasel words is like reading Gen..and Satan's words to Eve; "surely thou shalt not die"!
Ahh. but of course; you don't believe in Satan do you?
That means he never tempted Eve!
That means in your "theology" God introduced temptation and evil!???
That of course would not hold water! So where now your theology?

You say you "praise God regularly"; that means (if you tell the truth), that you "worship in spirit and in truth ( Jhn.4:23-24), unless the "one" you worship, is one of those that Jesus warned would be evident (false Christ's).
You said in an earlier post that you treat the Holy Spirit in the same way as Christ Jesus; ie deny their Deity!
In that case; you cannot "worship in spirit and in truth"; as "God is Spirit"!???
Floyd.

Hi Floyd. I was pondering upon the fact that Purity believes angels could not sin, because they are of divine origin. It occured to me that following that reasoning, he can only come to the very conclusion that you mention above. That according to Purity Adam and Eve did not sin because they were tempted, but because they were created with evil natures, and their sin was a direct result of the nature planted within them by their Creator!!! The angels were created with a divine nature thus in Purity's logic they had no freedom of conscience. Adam and Eve were created in the image of God yet sinned? Was God's love toward Adam and Eve different to that toward His angels? Did God grant men with a freedom of conscience that He denied His angels? Did God not trust the angels with freedom?

 

[Purity]

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,.........

Quote Purity.....How can an angel fall Brakelite when they always do the will of their Father? Foolish nonsense you speak.

Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word. (Psalms 103:20)

And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. (Hebrews 1:7)

Brakelite you would even taint your own reward by suggesting Angels can and would sin? Divine nature sinning - are you for real?

Whatever Scriptures you think supports this false teaching you have totally missundestaood its meaning. You need to find another way to construct your Satan theory but hands of the Elohim they are pure beings who always and I mean always do the Will of the Father -


8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 ¶ Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.



2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.....

Brakelite.

Ok lets get into the nitty gritty shall we?

So when asked to demonstrate your fallen angel theology you head straight to the most symbolic book we have in all Scripture. This places you on very shaky ground. You have nothing from the OT, or the first five books, but all of sudden chapter 12 of the Revelation we have fallen angels?

Hmmmm!

Did you feel uncomfortable quoting Rev 12:7 when putting this post together?

Can you explain your understanding of 2 Peter 2:4? What do you believe this is teaching? Have you looked at the word Angels?

you have some major problems which clearly you are beginning to discover - how will you reconcile you irreconcilable issue - tainted reward! and failure to understand God (who is Spirit) cannot be tempted! Only flesh and blood can be tempted AND what does divine nature mean to you? Sinner? O dear!



P.

 

[brakelite]

For anyone who desires to understand more of the supernatural forces that oppose Christ and His followers, I highly recommend the following personal testimony of someone who has experienced the supernatural more than most.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ird-BKuPRlw

 

[Purity]

For anyone who desires to understand more of the supernatural forces that oppose Christ and His followers, I highly recommend the following personal testimony of someone who has experienced the supernatural more than most.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ird-BKuPRlw

Don't lose ground Brakelite.

2 points stand with you.

1. Rev 12:7 highly symbolic
2. How do you understand the word angels in 2 Peter 2:4

Otherwise do you have any other Scripture, a chapter, passage or verse to hang your theory on?

P.

 

[Floyd]

Hi Floyd. I was pondering upon the fact that Purity believes angels could not sin, because they are of divine origin. It occured to me that following that reasoning, he can only come to the very conclusion that you mention above. That according to Purity Adam and Eve did not sin because they were tempted, but because they were created with evil natures, and their sin was a direct result of the nature planted within them by their Creator!!! The angels were created with a divine nature thus in Purity's logic they had no freedom of conscience. Adam and Eve were created in the image of God yet sinned? Was God's love toward Adam and Eve different to that toward His angels? Did God grant men with a freedom of conscience that He denied His angels? Did God not trust the angels with freedom?

For anyone who desires to understand more of the supernatural forces that oppose Christ and His followers, I highly recommend the following personal testimony of someone who has experienced the supernatural more than most.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ird-BKuPRlw

As usual for Purity; he is misquoting Scripture; or doesn't know it!

It is clear from Gen. that angels "fell"; and corrupted the seed of men, other than Noah and his family.

It is also clear that after the flood; a further angelic eruption occurred (Gen.6:4); but corrupt Bible people such as P will attempt to deny this; because he/they deny Satan exists; with all that means in the attempts of Satan to undermine the Word of God; Who is Christ Jesus!

Floyd.

 

[Purity]

2 Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.....

Brakelite, at this point in time I really need you to open your mind and eyes to the possibility of a far deeper scriptural context going on here. I appreciate you have much at stake.

Clearly you believe in a just and righteous God (lets assume he is three as you believe) no doubt His character is one of equity, yes?

Lets reason out how this passage cannot be speaking about divine angels but human angels.

Firstly we are expressly told the divine command for sin (which is unchanging as your God is unchanging ) is "The wages of sin is death." (Rom 6:23).

Problem: Jesus said angels do not die in Luke 20:36

This is an irreconcilable issue for you not me

Please explain.

P.

 

[Floyd]

Don't lose ground Brakelite.

2 points stand with you.

1. Rev 12:7 highly symbolic
2. How do you understand the word angels in 2 Peter 2:4

Otherwise do you have any other Scripture, a chapter, passage or verse to hang your theory on?

P.

He (Purity) is concerned he is losing you Brakelight!
Floyd.

 

[Purity]

Floyd read that last post - its a real dilemma!

 

[Floyd]

Brakelite, at this point in time I really need you to open your mind and eyes to the possibility of a far deeper scriptural context going on here. I appreciate you have much at stake.

Clearly you believe in a just and righteous God (lets assume he is three as you believe) no doubt His character is one of equity, yes?

Lets reason out how this passage cannot be speaking about divine angels but human angels.

Firstly we are expressly told the divine command for sin (which is unchanging as your God is unchanging ) is "The wages of sin is death." (Rom 6:23).

Problem: Jesus said angels do not die in Luke 20:36

This is an irreconcilable issue for you not me

Please explain.

P.

Your "irreconcilable " issue is that you are doomed to Perdition!
Floyd.

 

[Purity]

Your "irreconcilable " issue is that you are doomed to Perdition!
Floyd.

Yes Floyd thankyou but explain your dilemma!

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/20230-the-devil/?p=229401

I have more respect for Brakelite than you Floyd because he will be actually be thinking about these issues and questioning how his own understanding measures against this truth.

1. How can Gods will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven, if Heaven is the source of rebellion?
2. How can angels sin and not die Rom 6:23 :mellow:
3. How can divine nature be the reward for the faithful if sin reigns even in Heaven?
4. How can Angels always do the Will of God and yet sin? :blink:

He knows he is in trouble - I am off home to cook dinner for the family and while I am gone I am sure Brakelite will either answer these questions or run a mile.

Lets see what happens?

Purity.

 

[Floyd]

Yes Floyd thankyou but explain your dilemma!

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/20230-the-devil/?p=229401

Who said that?
You are the one in question!
Don't presume to change my words!
Although, thinking about it; Satan's agents do!
Floyd.

 

[Purity]

Yes Floyd thankyou but explain your dilemma!

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/20230-the-devil/?p=229401

I have more respect for Brakelite than you Floyd because he will be actually be thinking about these issues and questioning how his own understanding measures against this truth.

1. How can Gods will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven, if Heaven is the source of rebellion?
2. How can angels sin and not die Rom 6:23 :mellow:
3. How can divine nature be the reward for the faithful if sin reigns even in Heaven?
4. How can Angels always do the Will of God and yet sin? :blink:

He knows he is in trouble - I am off home to cook dinner for the family and while I am gone I am sure Brakelite will either answer these questions or run a mile.

Lets see what happens?

Purity.

Dan 5:27

Make no mistake at the end of this study some here, like Belshazzer, will be found deficient of truth. Your flagrant refusal to speak according to this Word, even the Word of the Most High Sovereignty of God.

These remain (added one more for you to consider!)

1. How can Gods will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven, if Heaven is the source of rebellion?
2. How can angels sin and not die Rom 6:23 :mellow:
3. How can divine nature be the reward for the faithful if sin reigns even in Heaven?
4. How can Angels always do the Will of God and yet sin? :blink:
5. How can evil power still be demonstrated by the "angels that sinned" despite the fact that they are "reserved in everlasting chains". :wacko:

Turning up the heat on your fallen angel theology.

P.

 

[Floyd]

Dan 5:27

Make no mistake at the end of this study some here, like Belshazzer, will be found deficient of truth. Your flagrant refusal to speak according to this Word, even the Word of the Most High Sovereignty of God.

These remain (added one more for you to consider!)

1. How can Gods will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven, if Heaven is the source of rebellion?
2. How can angels sin and not die Rom 6:23 :mellow:
3. How can divine nature be the reward for the faithful if sin reigns even in Heaven?
4. How can Angels always do the Will of God and yet sin? :blink:
5. How can evil power still be demonstrated by the "angels that sinned" despite the fact that they are "reserved in everlasting chains". :wacko:

Turning up the heat on your fallen angel theology.

P.

Your personal opinion of me is not the point here.
You clearly do not know scripture re the fallen angels. Also; it is not my theory.
As I said to you many times, I will not debate with you because all your comments and Scripture refs. are not truth; they are abberant!

You still refuse to answer my questions on your own teachings; which shows you are not honest in your approach; as you should always be ready to defend your own teachings; but of course you can't, because your own teachings are working against you now!
your usual approach is to ignore the important points, and to start another hare running, with abberant interpretation.

For your memory, and record; again below are my questions?


Purity, on 24 May 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

If only you had 39 books to support your notions but you haven't one.

I only need one; The Bible!

It states clearly that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; which is where your apostasy is!
Watching your weasel words is like reading Gen..and Satan's words to Eve; "surely thou shalt not die"!
Ahh. but of course; you don't believe in Satan do you?
That means he never tempted Eve!
That means in your "theology" God introduced temptation and evil!???
That of course would not hold water! So where now your theology?

You say you "praise God regularly"; that means (if you tell the truth), that you "worship in spirit and in truth ( Jhn.4:23-24), unless the "one" you worship, is one of those that Jesus warned would be evident (false Christ's).
You said in an earlier post that you treat the Holy Spirit in the same way as Christ Jesus; ie deny their Deity!
In that case; you cannot "worship in spirit and in truth"; as "God is Spirit"!???
Floyd.

 

[Purity]

You still refuse to answer my questions on your own teachings; which shows you are not honest in your approach; as you should always be ready to defend your own teachings; but of course you can't, because your own teachings are working against you now!
Floyd.

Its not because I don't want to answer its that you give me no choice but to refuse as you spirit is contentious.

Pro 14:7 Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.

The advice here is to be just, kind and polite to all people, but we must be careful we entreat people who are without knowledge. The words of Scripture admit of an attempt to help even when dealing with fools. 'Go from the presence of a foolish man when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge' [KJV].

This implies an effort to help but counsels us to withdraw if there is no response

Your behaviour has been extremely eradicate.

"The lips of the wise spread knowledge; not so the hearts of fools."

If you cease from behaving like a fool then we can proceed with your learning.

Purity.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

I was waiting for this to present - thank you

Gal 2:16KJV
Gal 5:19KJV
Gal 5:20KJV
Gal 5:21KJV

Learn Gazer...learn.

Hello Purity
I am learning about you.

I agree the Lust of the flesh is sinful.
I don't give the Devil all the credit for our actions to sin.
We have our own "I want" - desires
The lust of the flesh is not call the devil, the lust of the flesh can cause you to become a devil.

A devil is a sinner, they commit sin.