The Didache and the Law

[mjrhealth]

I am not talking about John the Baptist. I am talking about what Jesus told his disciples to do in Mathew 28:19 and the Apostles practiced in Luke 10 in which it is said, "He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me." YOU are the one not hearing Him.

You missed the whole point. that time Jesus spent with the disciples was a transition from the old to the new. Before His death and resurection, Baptism was required for forgiveness of sin, after his resurection it is faith in what he has done that saves us. Nothing else. There was a lot going on in that time, and the disciples had a hard time getting there heads around it, coming from a religious background. Can perfectly understand.

Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Act_1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Act_11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act_11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Too many christians living in the past.

 

[tom55]

It doesn't disagree with me it confirms what I said read the scriptures slowly if you have to but see that being baptized is the result of confessing Jesus as your Savior and that this is what forgive him. This was the ministry that John the Baptist was called to. No one is baptized and less they're willing and able to confess Jesus as your Savior.

I agree with you that baptism and confessing Jesus as your Savior go hand in hand even though you can confess Him as your savior and not be baptized and still go to heaven. But scripture says baptism of repentance for the remission of sins AND be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins AND be baptized and wash away your sins AND baptism now saves you which is CLEARLY and totally OPPOSITE of what you said (Baptism doesn't cause remission of sins nor does it cause anyone to be saved)

Well Luke 3:3 is about John the Baptist, but regardless, the Gospel message, when received and implemented, is what saves people because they are accepting Jesus as their Savior. I'm surprised you really don't understand what the gospel message effectually does? You seem to also not recognize that Jesus himself never baptized one single person. And that he himself said he is the way the truth and the life. So if you really think that water baptism save someone you really are not understanding the Gospel message of Jesus Christ.

I apologize I didn't make myself clear. You are right, Luke 3:3 is about John the Baptist, however, I was specifically showing what scripture teaches about baptism not what a person (John the Baptist) said about it. HOWEVER, I thought you would notice or knew what John the Baptist also said in Luke 3:16 which obviously changes baptism from a symbolic event into a sacrament since now the Holy Spirit is involved. You are right that scripture does not record Jesus baptizing anyone HOWEVER read Luke 3:16 again and you may realize the deeper meaning if you read it in conjunction with what Jesus said in John 3:5! You will notice how it goes hand in hand with Luke 3:16. Jesus instructed us to baptize and gave the power of baptism to his Apostles in Mathew 28:19 and they passed it down to others. Jesus said we can't enter the kingdom of God unless we are baptized (born of water and Spirit). Scripture makes it very clear that baptism is PART OF being saved and whoever doesn't see that in scripture is not understanding the Gospel message of Jesus Christ. They have truly twisted scripture.

What do you need quoted or cited?

We can start with this: Actually there are 4 or 5 connotations to consecrate, and in this case, it is not used to describe communion.

 

[tom55]

You missed the whole point. that time Jesus spent with the disciples was a transition from the old to the new. Before His death and resurrection, Baptism was required for forgiveness of sin, after his resurrection it is faith in what he has done that saves us. Nothing else. There was a lot going on in that time, and the disciples had a hard time getting there heads around it, coming from a religious background. Can perfectly understand.
Too many Christians living in the past.

Why did Jesus tell his apostles to go and baptize people? (Mathew 28:19)

 

[StanJ]

It doesn't disagree with me it confirms what I said read the scriptures slowly if you have to but see that being baptized is the result of confessing Jesus as your Savior and that this is what forgive him. This was the ministry that John the Baptist was called to. No one is baptized and less they're willing and able to confess Jesus as your Savior.

I agree with you that baptism and confessing Jesus as your Savior go hand in hand even though you can confess Him as your savior and not be baptized and still go to heaven. But scripture says baptism of repentance for the remission of sins AND be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins AND be baptized and wash away your sins AND baptism now saves you which is CLEARLY and totally OPPOSITE of what you said (Baptism doesn't cause remission of sins nor does it cause anyone to be saved)

Well Luke 3:3 is about John the Baptist, but regardless, the Gospel message, when received and implemented, is what saves people because they are accepting Jesus as their Savior. I'm surprised you really don't understand what the gospel message effectually does? You seem to also not recognize that Jesus himself never baptized one single person. And that he himself said he is the way the truth and the life. So if you really think that water baptism save someone you really are not understanding the Gospel message of Jesus Christ.

I apologize I didn't make myself clear. You are right, Luke 3:3 is about John the Baptist, however, I was specifically showing what scripture teaches about baptism not what a person (John the Baptist) said about it. HOWEVER, I thought you would notice or knew what John the Baptist also said in Luke 3:16 which obviously changes baptism from a symbolic event into a sacrament since now the Holy Spirit is involved. You are right that scripture does not record Jesus baptizing anyone HOWEVER read Luke 3:16 again and you may realize the deeper meaning if you read it in conjunction with what Jesus said in John 3:5! You will notice how it goes hand in hand with Luke 3:16. Jesus instructed us to baptize and gave the power of baptism to his Apostles in Mathew 28:19 and they passed it down to others. Jesus said we can't enter the kingdom of God unless we are baptized (born of water and Spirit). Scripture makes it very clear that baptism is PART OF being saved and whoever doesn't see that in scripture is not understanding the Gospel message of Jesus Christ. They have truly twisted scripture.
What do you need quoted or cited?

We can start with this: Actually there are 4 or 5 connotations to consecrate, and in this case, it is not used to describe communion.

I'm sure you will know why I wont adress this post?

 

[tom55]

I'm sure you will know why I wont adress this post?

I do know why. Because what I wrote is based on scripture and historical facts. Furthermore I quoted you and destroyed your non factual quote with what scripture really says. In other words, you can't refute it!!

 

[StanJ]

I do know why. Because what I wrote is based on scripture and historical facts. Furthermore I quoted you and destroyed your non factual quote with what scripture really says. In other words, you can't refute it!!

So this clearly shows you know how to post in the proper format, so I'll say this again as I just said it in another thread to you. Don't respond to me unless you do it in the proper format. Failure to do so will result in me reporting your posts.

 

[tom55]

So this clearly shows you know how to post in the proper format, so I'll say this again as I just said it in another thread to you. Don't respond to me unless you do it in the proper format. Failure to do so will result in me reporting your posts.

As I told you before.....I am a simple man with a high school education. I don't know how to break quotes up in the way you or others do on this website. I have tried to learn how to do it but I just can't grasp it. I can barely send an email let alone multi-quote!! :blink:

 

[tom55]

I just went to the help desk and searched multiquote and it didn't tell me how to do it.

 

[StanJ]

As I told you before.....I am a simple man with a high school education. I don't know how to break quotes up in the way you or others do on this website. I have tried to learn how to do it but I just can't grasp it. I can barely send an email let alone multi-quote!!]

Sorry but I don't buy this excuse. If you really want to learn, then ask the admin. The fact that you know what multi quote is, contradicts your simple man excuse.

 

[tom55]

Sorry but I don't buy this excuse. If you really want to learn, then ask the admin. The fact that you know what multi quote is, contradicts your simple man excuse.

I know what multiquote is because it says it right by the quote button. I also think I know what it is SUPPOSED to do, however, I don't know how to use it and the help desk doesn't give instructions. One of the CB rules is don't call anyone a liar. This is the second time in the last week you have, in my opinion, called me a liar.

Nice way to change the subject thought. I suspect you did that since you can't refute or articulate a response to what I said. My thoughts and prayers are with you. I hope there are no hard feelings and I do love you.

 

[StanJ]

I know what multiquote is because it says it right by the quote button. I also think I know what it is SUPPOSED to do, however, I don't know how to use it and the help desk doesn't give instructions. One of the CB rules is don't call anyone a liar. This is the second time in the last week you have, in my opinion, called me a liar.
Nice way to change the subject thought. I suspect you did that since you can't refute or articulate a response to what I said. My thoughts and prayers are with you. I hope there are no hard feelings and I do love you.

Actually the CB rule is to not lie.
When you start staying on subject and eliminate all these diversionary tactics then all of your posts if they're done in the proper fashion otherwise I won't bother. You can believe whatever you want, I really don't care.

 

[tom55]

Actually the CB rule is to not lie.
When you start staying on subject and eliminate all these diversionary tactics then all of your posts if they're done in the proper fashion otherwise I won't bother. You can believe whatever you want, I really don't care.

You are right. It says not to lie.

I didn't change the subject. You refused to answer me in post #44 which effectively ended the conversation.

 

[mjrhealth]

Why did Jesus tell his apostles to go and baptize people? (Mathew 28:19)

Before His death and resurrection, Baptism was required for forgiveness of sin,

You should read the post. I already answered that question.

You are right. It says not to lie.

Sometimes its better to be ignorant that way blame cannot fall on you.

 

[StanJ]

You are right. It says not to lie.
I didn't change the subject. You refused to answer me in post #44 which effectively ended the conversation.

I refused to respond because of your refusal to comply to my request. All the prevarication in the world will not change that fact.

 

[tom55]

Before His death and resurrection, Baptism was required for forgiveness of sin,

You should read the post. I already answered that question.

He told them to go baptize just before he rose into heaven; also known as the great commission. That means he wanted them to baptize AFTER he went to heaven.

I did read your post and, in my opinion, it does not answer my question that is why I asked it!!

 

[mjrhealth]

Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.


Act_1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

When was the many days hence part???

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Act_11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

It really isnt hard, instread of listening to the lies taught you by man all you need do is do what Christ asked, and go to Him so He can teach you teh truth, that is if you desire the truth which so many dont.

Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[tom55]

Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.


Act_1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

When was the many days hence part???

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Act_11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

It really isnt hard, instread of listening to the lies taught you by man all you need do is do what Christ asked, and go to Him so He can teach you teh truth, that is if you desire the truth which so many dont.

Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Ooops....You left out Acts 2:41 which talks about them being baptized and historical writings from the early Christians showing that they continued water baptism after Jesus death and I could go on and on however I know you have your truth and then there is scripture so I will end the discussion here.

 

[tom55]

Then post the link.

It doesn't disagree with me it confirms what I said read the scriptures slowly if you have to but see that being baptized is the result of confessing Jesus as your Savior and that this is what forgive him. This was the ministry that John the Baptist was called to. No one is baptized and less they're willing and able to confess Jesus as your Savior.

Well Luke 3:3 is about John the Baptist, but regardless, the Gospel message, when received and implemented, is what saves people because they are accepting Jesus as their Savior. I'm surprised you really don't understand what the gospel message effectually does? You seem to also not recognize that Jesus himself never baptized one single person. And that he himself said he is the way the truth and the life. So if you really think that water baptism save someone you really are not understanding the Gospel message of Jesus Christ.

What do you need quoted or cited?

I agree with you that baptism and confessing Jesus as your Savior go hand in hand, however, you can confess Him as your savior and not be baptized and still go to heaven.

Scripture says baptism of repentance for the remission of sins AND be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins AND be baptized and wash away your sins AND baptism now saves you which is CLEARLY and totally OPPOSITE of what you said (Baptism doesn't cause remission of sins nor does it cause anyone to be saved).

Luke 3:3 is about John the Baptist, however, I was specifically showing what scripture teaches about baptism not what a person (John the Baptist) said about it. HOWEVER, I thought you would notice or knew what John the Baptist also said in Luke 3:16 which obviously changes baptism from a symbolic event into a sacrament since now the Holy Spirit is involved. You are right that scripture does not record Jesus baptizing anyone HOWEVER read Luke 3:16 again and you may realize the deeper meaning if you read it in conjunction with what Jesus said in John 3:5! Notice how they go hand in hand? Jesus instructed us to baptize and gave the power of baptism to his Apostles in Mathew 28:19 and they passed it down to others. Jesus said we can't enter the kingdom of God unless we are born of water and Spirit (baptized).

Scripture makes it very clear that baptism is PART OF being saved and whoever doesn't see that in scripture is not understanding the Gospel message of Jesus Christ.

 

[StanJ]

I agree with you that baptism and confessing Jesus as your Savior go hand in hand, however, you can confess Him as your savior and not be baptized and still go to heaven.
Scripture says baptism of repentance for the remission of sins AND be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins AND be baptized and wash away your sins AND baptism now saves you which is CLEARLY and totally OPPOSITE of what you said (Baptism doesn't cause remission of sins nor does it cause anyone to be saved).
Luke 3:3 is about John the Baptist, however, I was specifically showing what scripture teaches about baptism not what a person (John the Baptist) said about it. HOWEVER, I thought you would notice or knew what John the Baptist also said in Luke 3:16 which obviously changes baptism from a symbolic event into a sacrament since now the Holy Spirit is involved. You are right that scripture does not record Jesus baptizing anyone HOWEVER read Luke 3:16 again and you may realize the deeper meaning if you read it in conjunction with what Jesus said in John 3:5! Notice how they go hand in hand? Jesus instructed us to baptize and gave the power of baptism to his Apostles in Mathew 28:19 and they passed it down to others. Jesus said we can't enter the kingdom of God unless we are born of water and Spirit (baptized).
Scripture makes it very clear that baptism is PART OF being saved and whoever doesn't see that in scripture is not understanding the Gospel message of Jesus Christ.

Not the issue and I never said it was. The issue is salvation and salvation is confessing Jesus Christ alone, it doesn't involve baptism. Rom 10:9-11
Baptism is a separate commandant which Jesus also told the apostles. It does not provide salvation and it does not provide forgiveness of sins. It's an outward sign of inward repentance. Your lack of understanding what Jesus was actually conveying in John 3:5 is the problem, not what I said. Jesus was telling Nicodemus that you had tomnot only be born of water, going through the birth canal breaking the water, but you also had to be born of spirit which doesn't happen when you're physically born. The Kingdom of Heaven is not some off world place, it's right here on earth.
When one repents he makes a 180 degree turn away from sin they do that by confessing Jesus. John preached Jesus and his ministry was to baptize those that confessed that Jesus was the Messiah and agreed to turn away from their sin. As you don't obviously understand but 1st Peter 3 says in regards to this Baptism being symbolized by the water, it's not surprising you just pick one part of the scripture to eisegete your POV. I suggest you read and study 1 Peter 3:8-22, to see what Peter is actually conveying here. Noah and his family were saved by the ark out of the water not by the water. Peter clearly demonstrates this in this passage by comparing Jesus to the earth. Sadly you have just taken somebody else's, or should I say the RCC interpolation of this verse, and skewed it to fit their doctrine and thus your belief.

 

[tom55]

Not the issue and I never said it was. The issue is salvation and salvation is confessing Jesus Christ alone, it doesn't involve baptism. Rom 10:9-11
Baptism is a separate commandant which Jesus also told the apostles. It does not provide salvation and it does not provide forgiveness of sins. It's an outward sign of inward repentance. Your lack of understanding what Jesus was actually conveying in John 3:5 is the problem, not what I said. Jesus was telling Nicodemus that you had tomnot only be born of water, going through the birth canal breaking the water, but you also had to be born of spirit which doesn't happen when you're physically born. The Kingdom of Heaven is not some off world place, it's right here on earth.
When one repents he makes a 180 degree turn away from sin they do that by confessing Jesus. John preached Jesus and his ministry was to baptize those that confessed that Jesus was the Messiah and agreed to turn away from their sin. As you don't obviously understand but 1st Peter 3 says in regards to this Baptism being symbolized by the water, it's not surprising you just pick one part of the scripture to eisegete your POV. I suggest you read and study 1 Peter 3:8-22, to see what Peter is actually conveying here. Noah and his family were saved by the ark out of the water not by the water. Peter clearly demonstrates this in this passage by comparing Jesus to the earth. Sadly you have just taken somebody else's, or should I say the RCC interpolation of this verse, and skewed it to fit their doctrine and thus your belief.

Scripture says baptism for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) AND be baptized and wash away your sins (Acts 22:16) AND baptism now saves you (1 Peter 3:21) AND He who believes AND is baptized will be saved; (Mark 16:16) which is CLEARLY and totally OPPOSITE of what you have said: (Baptism doesn't cause remission of sins nor does it cause anyone to be saved. It does not provide salvation and it does not provide forgiveness of sins. So if you really think that water baptism save someone you really are not understanding the Gospel message of Jesus Christ)

Scripture clearly says you have to believe AND be baptized. YES, I really think that water baptism saves you because scripture CLEARLY says so. It appears you, StanJ, are not understanding the gospel message of Jesus.

As you may recall just prior to John 3:5 Jesus had just been baptized (in water) by John the Baptist and the spirit of God descended upon him. Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he (Nicodemus) had to be born of water and spirit just like he (Jesus) was which is like a new birth.

In regards to 1 Peter 3:3-22 we see that a few people (Noah's family) were saved through water (the flood) and this water (the flood) symbolizes baptism. Scripture says Baptism (water) now saves you just like the flood saved Noah and humanity. The flood was a symbol; baptism is NOT a symbol. You have added to scripture Jesus being compared to the earth (whatever that means?). Sadly you have added to the bible to fit YOUR interpretation. I have only quoted scripture not RCC teachings and you have added to scripture. He says, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. He says again, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water AND of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. When Jesus says Verily, Verily he is setting up what he is about to say as being VERY important. BAPTISM is very important, not a symbol.

Also you said earlier Jesus never baptized one single person SOOOOO....what happened in John 3:22-26? (It's ok if you forgot about this, I did also)

.