The disastrous failure of the early church

[rand]

I've seen MS&W more outside of a church than inside a church. Most of them were one-on-one or two-on-one. Just people praying--commanding that mountain to be cast into the sea and for the name of the disease to bow to the name of Jesus. When those things happen, one can't help but praise and worship God for it. Rev 19:19 ??? (i think) the testamony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy (what He has done in the past, He is doing or will do again) He is after all the same today that He was back then. He came to reveal the Father's will. Even those He was not pleased with, He never made one of them sick or lame. He healed everyone who would let him. He is the spitting image of the Father. Of course the enemy doen't want us to know that we have that power over him. But why would the enemy want to mis-lead us into thinking we do have that power over him? What harm would that do to believers?

THe prayer of faith will heal the sick. How do you pray a prayer of faith unless you know without any doubt, it is the will of the Father to heal. If you pray for the sick and you don't believe it is necessarily the Father's will to heal them, you, at best, are praying a prayer of hope. It isn't faith.

I believe He has given us power, and I believe He has given us authority, and I believe we are ambassadors of Christ to cary on His works and the Father's will. I believe this is the narrow gate that so few people (even Christians) find. I believe this is the abundant life that Jesus promised. But, by believing the lie of the enemy, you empower the enemy. By believing the Christ who promised we would do greater works than He did, we empower Him to work thru us.

It really is awesome when you command (in Jesus' name) for a pain to leave your foot, or for breast canser to leave your wife's breast, and it does just as you command. It's awesome. It will change your religion. Then you will know that the gospel is not just words, but real power and that you really can do all things thru Christ who gives you strength (power).

 

[neophyte]

John Zane,you wrote: "
Posted Yesterday, 12:10 PM

kepha31, on 22 November 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

(1) The Church we read about in the NT didn't have a NT. The NT didn't start the Church.

(2) The Holy Spirit can't operate in a climate of prejudice.
You didn't walk in to the Vatican looking for beauty, you walked in looking for an excuse.


Edited by John Zain, Yesterday, 12:10 PM.

John Zane, In answer to one of your posts on thisa thread, i ask you this question- Will you show me from the Holy Bible where the first early Church Christians carried their NT with them when they gathered together in homes or fields ? And you speak of somebody else being ridiculous, WOW.

 

[teamventure]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5mCBRCXEd0 here's a link to a video that exposes the signs and wonders movement.
in 25:30 he quotes a book about the serpent power and it's manifestations.
the manifestations include things that happen in many of these signs and wonders
services.

quote: the serpent power "the stormy search for self"

during powerfull rushes of kundalini energy there are some common manifestations: unnatural laughter or crying, tongues, singing unknown songs, spiritual chants, animal sounds and movements.

sounds quite similar to a signs and wonders revival to me.

you advocates for the signs and wonders movement, do you condone such experiences and manifestations and believe they are from God?

John Zain? ZebraHug?

these so called revivals take Occultic practices and call them from God.

another speakers goes into some depth about some of these manifestations in
34:20

even being so-called slain in the spirit is an occultic practice.

 

[Axehead]

You just can't explain to some people. I don't belong to a S W M type of church. I belong to a church that believes the Bible. And Uwhen Jesus declares that those who follow him would be filled with his power, and that this power would bring the supernatural, then I'm not going to throw it out, no matter how many people abuse and fake it.
You can get rid of signs, miracles, and what not, but that will never change anything. I'd rather live a life of power and victory through Jesus, then a dead life, trying to be a so-called Christian who doesn't have the Spirit of God inside him changing every part of him.

Very good point, ZH. Being conformed to the image of Christ is what's its all about, because only that proves that one knows the Lord and is abiding in Him. Signs and wonders can be counterfeited but not the inward work of the Holy Spirit. Satan is all about the external and being showy.

 

[Groundzero]

PTL, Axehead.


@teamventure (edit)
No, I don't advocate a signs and wonders movement. I advocate being a Believer filled with the Spirit of Jesus, which will work miracles through me if I let him.
Of course, people like you have shunned signs and wonders and miracles, so what's the point? After all, my verses you expediently ignored, but I'll post one again just for good measure.

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

All for the glory of Jesus.

Oh, and also, of course there will be false signs. I've already covered that, and how spirits must be tested, but obviously you aren't interested, except in preaching your opinion.

If there's something false, then it stands to reason that there is something true.

 

[John Zain]

Hi Rand,

Just a super post #61... thanks for sharing.

I hope many believe what you're saying ...
because they will need this type of belief, faith, and trust in the days ahead!

 

[teamventure]

PTL, Axehead.


@teamventure (edit)
No, I don't advocate a signs and wonders movement. I advocate being a Believer filled with the Spirit of Jesus, which will work miracles through me if I let him.
Of course, people like you have shunned signs and wonders and miracles, so what's the point? After all, my verses you expediently ignored, but I'll post one again just for good measure.

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

All for the glory of Jesus.

Oh, and also, of course there will be false signs. I've already covered that, and how spirits must be tested, but obviously you aren't interested, except in preaching your opinion.

If there's something false, then it stands to reason that there is something true.

well ZebraHug we are pretty much in agreement here. i still believe in signs and wonders for this generation of the church. i just believe that the main movement of it in the church has taken the idea off into left field somehwhere.
once again, i don't think we are in disagreement we are just emphasizing different points.

peace and blessings

teamventure

 

[rand]

This may be a bit dificult for many to take in--I know it was for me at first--but let me give it a go. At one point Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed that starts off very small and grows to be very large. At another point He said that the kingdom does not come with your careful observation, but it is inside of you. Further, He told His followers that some of them should not pass until they have seen the kingdom in it's fullness. How can they see the kingdom unless they pass? Good question, I think. But, don't forget that He also taught us to pray for His kingdom (the King's domain--which is the spirit realm) to come (to us).

Remember, too, that the mustard seed is a seed that will only grow to it's fullness when it lands in the good soil (our heart) and it is not choked out by the cares of this life, or stolen away from us by the enemy, or it doesn't land on a hardened heart. All of these soil conditions are up to us--it's our heart. The Holy Spirit doesn't just give us power, the Holy Spirit is the power. All the power that created the heavens and the Earth and everything in them, all the power that raised Jesus from the dead is inside of us. So, is there anything we can not do? Only what is limited by our faith and by our imagination. That's what God said when He decided to break up the party at the tower of Babel--'they will see that they can do anything they imagine'

Anyway, back on topic: Wouldn't we need to operate in these signs and wonders to be more Christ-like? Jesus said that unless He does these, do not believe Him. Many people do believe Him, but don't believe He is still doing these signs and wonders anymore--Maybe He did Change??? I don't think for a moment that not believing Jesus' words that we can have everything we ask for in His name, and not believing we can do all things (miracles included in all things) thru Him who gives us strength, will keep anyone out of heaven. Belief in miracles is not the requirement, belief in the Christ is the only requirement. Not believing in the signs and wonders and miracles will just keep you from finding the narrow gate that leads to life--note: not eternal life, just life, here on this earth.

God is so much greater than we know. He so much greater than we give Him credit for. He is not the one keeping blessing from coming our way, He has done all that He needs to do to give us the abundant life, the rest is up to us and it all starts with the condition of our soil. And, if you haven't begun to see this yet, then I would guess that you still have the heart of a servant and not the heart of a child of God, or the heart of a true friend of God. He not only loves you, He likes you, too. Just the way you are (in Christ). In fact, He loves you the same as He loves Jesus. You probably don't believe me, huh? John 17:23 Changed my life, let it change yours too. Don't greive the Holy Spirit. He is so awesome. He has so much He wants to show you. Don't deny the power of the Gospel, seek it out. He can't wait to show it to you. Thank you Holy Spirit!!!

I know there are a lot of fakes out there, and there is a lot of those who seemingly try to profit from sings and wonders, healings and what not, but the same can be said about some who preach without signs and wonders.

But no matter what you believe, don't ever call good what God has called evil, nor call evil what God has called good. If you don't know, say you don't know. If you don't believe, say you don't believe. I do believe, I asked God to reveal the truth to me about all that stuff, and He did and He is so awesome. He So awesome.

 

[Groundzero]

well ZebraHug we are pretty much in agreement here. i still believe in signs and wonders for this generation of the church. i just believe that the main movement of it in the church has taken the idea off into left field somehwhere.
once again, i don't think we are in disagreement we are just emphasizing different points.

peace and blessings

teamventure

I would be careful how you emphasize. Because it comes across as one who doesn't believe in s-w-m nowadays.

 

[teamventure]

I would be careful how you emphasize. Because it comes across as one who doesn't believe in s-w-m nowadays.

well on the other side of that coin one may look like they are advocating the stuff i posted. God forbid.. scary scary stuff.
anyway Godbless.

 

[Spirit Covenant]

Do you have any evidence to back up your opinions?

Yes! History, The prophecies of scripture and knowing what God is doing.

Still waiting on your Bible answers to this -"The first Church was killed and martyred so that the truth would vanish and come to what it is today. The Day Of Wrath' So you are saying that your words are superior to our Lord's Words when He promised that "... the gates of hell shall not prevail against it..." Show Book, Chapter, Verse please where Jesus either changed His mind, made a mistake or lied ?






.

Christ was talking to the elect. His promises are sound. But they are not for everyone. Only those who have left all and who have asked and received His Spirit were the promises made to. The rest receive His wrath.
Romans 2
6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds":
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath,

Romans 8
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

 

[Mungo]

Do you have any evidence to back up your opinions?

Yes! History, The prophecies of scripture and knowing what God is doing.

Would you care to provide some?

Or is that just another unsubstantiated opinion?