The distain for romance, family, and the demonization of sexualality and women in Christianity

[GodsGrace]

Women should have the same opportunities in church and society.

OK.

In society.
And in churches?
Should a woman be a priest?

I think this thread has been derailed....

 

[Grailhunter]

I feel like we're getting into philosophy....
but I looked up equal: See the difference between B1 and B2

Would you say that women in the church setting would be explained better by B2?


equal
adjective

us

/ˈiː.kwəl/ uk

/ˈiː.kwəl/

equal adjective (SAME)​

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B1
the same in amount, number, or size:
One quart is equal to two pints.
equal in One box may look bigger than the other, but in fact they are roughly (= almost) equal in volume.
Thesaurus: synonyms, antonyms, and examples
exactly like each other

• the sameI have the same dress as her.
• identicalThe employees all wore identical blue shirts.
• indistinguishableThe counterfeit certificate was so good it was indistinguishable from the real thing.
• equalFour groups of ten is equal to two groups of twenty.

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B1
the same in importance and deserving the same treatment:
All people are equal, deserving the same rights as each other.
equal pay/status They have a long way to go before they achieve equal pay/status for men and women.
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SMART Vocabulary: related words and phrases

equal adjective (ABLE)​

[ after verb ] formal
skilled or brave enough for a difficult duty or piece of work:
prove equal to It's a challenging job but I'm sure you'll prove equal to it.
equal to the task Do you think he's equal to the task ahead of him?
SMART Vocabulary: related words and phrases



equal
noun [ C ]

us

/ˈiː.kwəl/ uk

/ˈiː.kwəl/

B2
someone or something that has the same importance as someone or something else and deserves the same treatment:
The good thing about her as a boss is that she treats us all as equals.
Throughout her marriage she never considered her husband as her intellectual equal.
have no equal As an all-around athlete he has no equal (= no-one else is as good).

In this case equal is a matter of the same opportunities in church and society.

 

[Grailhunter]

Should a woman be a priest?

YES!

 

[GodsGrace]

This is why I enjoy talking to you. You don't agree there should be women priests but you can argue for their not have equal opportunities. I LOVE that you can do that, i really do!

LOL
Well stop loving it and give me an answer!

But I think we've derailed this thread enough.....

 

[GodsGrace]

YES!

OK.
We finally disagree about something !!

 

[GodsGrace]

@Grailhunter
@nedsk

Very nice convo.

Back to painting my laundry room.

 

[nedsk]

LOL
Well stop loving it and give me an answer!

But I think we've derailed this thread enough.....

I did

 

[nedsk]

In this case equal is a matter of the same opportunities in church and society.

Thats fairness not equality. The church isn't a democracy

 

[Grailhunter]

@Grailhunter
@nedsk

Very nice convo.

Back to painting my laundry room.

And then we can get on the celibacy issue. Probably be more relevant that priests and nuns have to feed the poor.

 

[GodsGrace]

And then we can get on the celibacy issue. Probably be more relevant that priests and nuns have to feed the poor.

I don't see celibacy as an issue.
I know some priests personally....they don't have an issue with this.
They knew before becoming priests that celibacy was a requirement and they agreed to it.
And this happened, in the CC, only in about the year 1200, if I remember correctly (or close to that time).
Priests agree that it would be very difficult to be a priest AND have a family.
It has to be said that some do leave the priesthood to get married but it's not often and is not seen as a problem.
Here by me, in all the time anyone can remember, only one priest has done this.

 

[nedsk]

I don't see celibacy as an issue.
I know some priests personally....they don't have an issue with this.
They knew before becoming priests that celibacy was a requirement and they agreed to it.
And this happened, in the CC, only in about the year 1200, if I remember correctly (or close to that time).
Priests agree that it would be very difficult to be a priest AND have a family.
It has to be said that some do leave the priesthood to get married but it's not often and is not seen as a problem.
Here by me, in all the time anyone can remember, only one priest has done this.

Sadly I know at least 5 just off the top of my head they have left the priesthood for marriage. Also even more men that were brothers in religious orders.

 

[GodsGrace]

Sadly I know at least 5 just off the top of my head they have left the priesthood for marriage. Also even more men that were brothers in religious orders.

It happens nedsk. Always will.
But for the majority it's not an issue.
What I have found is that an older age some feel needy and wish they had a family...
but it doesn't seem to be a problem and anyway it's such a personal feeling I doubt they discuss everything about this.
Also, I want to mention that some priests don't even want a family so it had nothing to do with their decision.
I know a brother in a religious order but not in a personal way but he, and the others with him, seem to be content.
I also know that they don't accept someone just because they want to join...they've turned down at least two men I can think of because they don't feel the person is suited to that type of life. In one case I'd have to agree. Don't know the other man.

 

[Grailhunter]

Priests agree that it would be very difficult to be a priest AND have a family.

Pastors have families without a problem. You need to look at the history of it. And we don't have a bunch of horny people around our wife and kids. Still human.

Sex drives are odd. A persistent drive that finally motivates. Well intentioned people with perverted sex drives think I will just go some where, where they can't have sex. But it does not work out that way. My mom and friends......the good ones break down and offer people they know money for sex.

These were priests I knew, they were outgoing and friendly and people loved them.....but in the end human. The ones I knew kept it on the down low.

But it does not always work that way and the church protects them and pays damages. I see it in the news all the time.

There is nothing wrong with a priest choosing to be celibate....but it should not be a requirement for priests or nuns. It just causes to many problems and harm to others.

 

[GodsGrace]

Pastors have families without a problem. You need to look at the history of it. And we don't have a bunch of horny people around our wife and kids. Still human.

It happens in all denominations.

Mike Winger is getting much grief right now because he has exposed this.

Sex drives are odd. A persistent drive that finally motivates. Well intentioned people with perverted sex drives think I will just go some where, where they can't have sex. But it does not work out that way. My mom and friends......the good ones break down and offer people they know money for sex.

These were priests I knew, they were outgoing and friendly and people loved them.....but in the end human. The ones I knew kept it on the down low.

But it does not always work that way and the church protects them and pays damages. I see it in the news all the time.

Of course this is wrong and the CC is paying its dues for this.

There is nothing wrong with a priest choosing to be celibate....but it should not be a requirement for priests or nuns. It just causes to many problems and harm to others.

I don't think the CC is even considering this.
I agree with you BTW...I'm just saying it doesn't seem to bother the priests.
Or, maybe the ones that are bothered keep it to themselves -but then why become a priest...

A pastor has a tough life.
He has to go to work if the income from the church is not sufficient.
Or, he can not work and barely get by.
How's this: A pastor I had, won't say which denomination but one of the big ones, was found to be stealing money from the church.
He was married with 2 children and tried to devote himself to the church he ran. It must be tough.
There are lessons to prepare....Sunday service....visiting persons at home or in hospitals....replying to needs.

The cover ups are horrifying to me.

 

[The Barbarian]

Now I am not saying that Marriage Ceremonies were not occurring in Christianity all along. Marriage Ceremonies was a custom of the Gentiles that Paul brought into the Church and so voluntary Wedding Ceremonies were happening all along after he converted them.

This is true. In very early Christian communities, couples would go before the assembled faithful and announce their intention to begin a home and family.

 

[Grailhunter]

This is true. In very early Christian communities, couples would go before the assembled faithful and announce their intention to begin a home and family.

The history of weddings. If you Google how long have wedding ceremonies been happening? It will say as long as recorded history. But will not tell you that it was for the Pagans. LOL Technically Wedding Ceremonies are from Pagan sources. The Gentiles brought the custom of Wedding Ceremonies into Christianity and modern Christian Wedding Ceremonies still retain Pagan customs and rituals.

The Jews in the Old Testament considered the union the consummation of the marriage.
As it is now in most states and countries if a couple does not have sex after a wedding they can have the marriage annulled. Sex still consummates the marriage.

Wedding Ceremonies were voluntary until the Protestant made church weddings a requirement to be married in the 17th century. Up to that point the Catholics would not allow weddings in their churches. But soon after the Protestants made church weddings mandatory so did the Catholics.

The Catholics forbid polygamas marriages, but not until the 12th century.

 

[lforrest]

I think it is through the responsibilities we are faithful to keep that we are taught agape love. And putting love into practice is sanctifying.

And there are degrees to agape love, which are prioritized in order in the scriptures. The self sacrificing love that would die for strangers is #1. But also serving our family members at the cost of our own desires is a form of agape.