The Doctrine of Imminency....

[rockytopva]

The Doctrine of Imminency....
In doing some research on the doctrine of imminency, I noticed few people take the time to actually define what prophetic imminency means. First, let us look at the general definition of the key word "imminent:" "The quality or condition of being about to occur."

Imminency, as it relates to Bible prophecy, simply means that the return of Jesus Christ for the Church can happen at any moment. No warning signs will indicate a short-term countdown. We as Christians remain on alert 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

If a wife knows her husband normally gets home from work shortly after 4:00 PM, she knows that beginning at 4:00 PM, his arrival is imminent. If the woman knows her husband has to work overtime, the imminency of his 4:00 PM return is then in doubt. The only way for the rapture to be truly imminent is to have it transpire before the tribulation. If the Church were required to wait until after the manifestation of certain events, then there would be no doctrine of imminency. Call it the rapture... Whatever you will... We will at an unexpected moment be caught up with the Lord in the skies.... And then return to him to reign 1,000 years on this earth...

Nobody knows the hour when these things will occur...

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. - Matthew 24:36

But they will happen like they did in Noah's time...

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. - Matthew 24:37

In normal and everyday times the Lord Jesus comes for his church...

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, - Matthew 24:38

It will be a surprise for planet Earth when it does happen...

And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. - Matthew 24:39

People will be at their everyday tasks... And then disappear!

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. - Matthew 24:40-41


Reminded over and over to be ready for it in such an hour as we thing not!

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:42-44

And also Lot and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is thrown in for good measure... In everyday normal times they were going about their business... And then in the same day the place is destroyed. So the wrath of God falls suddenly... We must be ready for the Lords return to happen at any moment and on any day. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. - Luke 17:28-29

Here at 11:05 PM.... Gone at 11:06 PM!

I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. - Luke 17:34-37

 

[veteran]

The doctrine of Imminency is an idea made up by men to try and support their false Pre-trib secret Rapture theories. It is in direct contradiction to the SIGNS of the end Jesus gave His servants to be watching that lead up to His second coming.

 

[Stan]

The doctrine of Imminency is an idea made up by men to try and support their false Pre-trib secret Rapture theories. It is in direct contradiction to the SIGNS of the end Jesus gave His servants to be watching that lead up to His second coming.

I respect your opinion but as 'rockytopva' was kind enough to quote scripture, I think it only fair that you do likewise. Opinions are one thing, but proper hermenuetical exegesis is another. Hopefully we can practise that in these forums.
Thanks
Stan

 

[rockytopva]

I simply do not know the hour or the day in which Jesus Christ returns... But I live my life ready for it to happen at any time.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

The doctrine of immanency is a healthy exercise practiced by Christians for almost 2000 years.

(As opposed to thinking or teaching Jesus will not return for a long long time .... especially not in our lifetimes.)

I think that is the whole purpose.

The early Christians were not wrong to joyfully anticipate the return of the Lord any day , neither are we.

 

[rockytopva]

I can't believe we have Christians criticizing that which the Lord told us to be obedient to do...

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:24

Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. - Luke 12:40

We simply do not know when the Lord comes and have been commanded to be ready for it.

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. - 1 Thess 5:2

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up - 2 Peter 3:10

We don't even know the name of the event! We give it the name of the rapture but call it whatever you will! The Lord Jesus Christ comes for his church as a thief! At a time unlooked for! Read your bible!

 

[Stan]

To see the sense of immanency in the NT, check out these verses;

Romans 16:20
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. May the grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
Revelation 1:1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place.
Revelation 3:11
I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one can take away your crown.
Revelation 22:6
And he said to me, “These words are reliable and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show to his servants what must soon take place.”
Revelation 22:7
“Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”
Revelation 22:12
“Behold, I am coming soon, and my recompense is with me, to repay everyone according to what he has done.
Revelation 22:20
The one who testifies to these things says: “Yes, I am coming soon!” Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

We don't even know the name of the event! We give it the name of the rapture but call it whatever you will! The Lord Jesus Christ comes for his church as a thief! At a time unlooked for! Read your bible!

exactly .... well said .... the name of the event may or may not be the "rapture" .... but for sure the event will take place.

I respect the feelings of the "anti-rapture crowd" ..... but they have difficulty providing a name for the event describing when The Lord comes for his church and translates the living believers .

Hey .... rockytopva ... do you realize you may have invented the proper phrase to satisfy everybody. I am going to practice saying it over and over

:)
the event
the event
the event
the event
the event
:)

love it.

 

[veteran]

I respect your opinion but as 'rockytopva' was kind enough to quote scripture, I think it only fair that you do likewise. Opinions are one thing, but proper hermenuetical exegesis is another. Hopefully we can practise that in these forums.
Thanks
Stan

I would like to respect what you've said, but I do not see how when you reveal your favor with rockytopva's own un-Biblical 'opinion' giving...


[quote]Imminency, as it relates to Bible prophecy, simply means that the return of Jesus Christ for the Church can happen at any moment. No warning signs will indicate a short-term countdown. We as Christians remain on alert 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. [/quote]

The problem is, the idea that Jesus can return return "at any moment", or that He gave "No warning signs", is not Biblical nor a true statement. The Scriptures which he used to try... and support such a position do not give it.

What you apparently are not understanding about those Scriptures he quoted is that they are pulled out of chapters which have SIGNS Jesus gave us to be watching for.

The Matthew 24 and Luke 17 chapters contain SIGNS our Lord Jesus gave to mark the events of the end leading up to His second coming. But Rockytopva ommited those SIGNS which are part of the Scriptures he selectively pulled out of those chapters.

If you're not familiar with those SIGNS our Lord Jesus was giving us, His Church, then I can understand how you would in ignorance say what you did. Ignorance is not a sin. But willingly wanting to be ignorant of those SIGNS is. I'm willing to show them to you if you honestly desire. But beyond that, I'm not going to play childish games with you.

 

[HammerStone]

I understand the crux of the imminency persuasion, but I think it fails to acknowledge the ambiguity of the matter. I affirm that no specific date was given on the return of Jesus, the second advent. However, the season was provided, as were signs leading up to the event.

Matthew 24:3 NIV (2011)
As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

Jesus goes on to say in Matthew 24:36-44 the usual about not knowing the time. However, keep in mind that he says that after he just completed a 30+ verse exposé on the signs leading up to his return, which would obviously be indicative of some sort of idea of the time of his return. IE: Not specific in that I'll return on Tuesday the 28th at 9:00 PM sharp, but in the sense that you can expect me when the trees begin to lose leaves.

The implication seems to be to me that we are to watch, but he just gave us all these signs. Perhaps the watching part is more about not succumbing to the pleasures and temptations of the world which serve as distraction to the true work of a Christian. The example in Matthew 25 speaks of oil. Oil is symbolic for the anointing of God. The 5 foolish virgins took their lamps out for the oil, but never had the oil anticipating that they could fill at the last second. That's the kinda Christian you don't want to be, and that is who Jesus is speaking to about imminency - as is Paul later on.

It's not so much they didn't know he was coming - as well as knowing he would be coming reasonably soon - but they simply did not prepare. If we don't have the Word of God in our minds (symbollicaly oil in the lamps), then we are not prepared.

 

[Trekson]

I'm not sure how to work the quotes yet but Rockytopva made this statement: "We don't even know the name of the event! We give it the name of the rapture but call it whatever you will! The Lord Jesus Christ comes for his church as a thief! At a time unlooked for!
My response to this is the Day of the Lord comes as a thief for the unsuspecting world, not the church. This is shown in 1 Thess. 5:4 - "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Here Paul is speaking to the church. Why are we not in darkness? Because we have been given the signs of Matt. 24 which parallel the seals of Rev. 6 with amazing accuracy.

 

[Stan]

I would like to respect what you've said, but I do not see how when you reveal your favour with rockytopva's own un-Biblical 'opinion' giving...

NOT true. Rocky gave scripture. Do you expect to have your assertions accepted without scripture? This may work for you on non-Christian forums, but on Christian ones, scriptural support is a mandate. Read my post again, I did NOT support Rocky's post. I questioned your dismissiveness, WITHOUT any scriptural support.

 

[veteran]

NOT true. Rocky gave scripture. Do you expect to have your assertions accepted without scripture? This may work for you on non-Christian forums, but on Christian ones, scriptural support is a mandate. Read my post again, I did NOT support Rocky's post. I questioned your dismissiveness, WITHOUT any scriptural support.

Rockytopva did not give any Scriptural support for the Imminency 'opinion' he expressed. That idea originated from men's doctrines, and they cannot Scripturally support it either. Pulling single verses out of a Bible chapter to interpret it outside the chapter's context is not "scriptural support".

The fact that 'you' say... he gave "scripture" in support of the idea reveals your dishonesty in pushing an un-Scriptural doctrine.

 

[Stan]

Rockytopva did not give any Scriptural support for the Imminency 'opinion' he expressed. That idea originated from men's doctrines, and they cannot Scripturally support it either. Pulling single verses out of a Bible chapter to interpret it outside the chapter's context is not "scriptural support".

The fact that 'you' say... he gave "scripture" in support of the idea reveals your dishonesty in pushing an un-Scriptural doctrine.

Funny, I see 8 in the OP. How many have you given to support your assertions...None?

 

[veteran]

I have the WHOLE of the Matthew 24 chapter to support what I am saying.

Only towards the end of the Matthew 24 chapter did Jesus give the warning to be on watch for the signs He gave there leading up to the time of His coming.

Thus it's easy to notice rockytopva's quotes of Matt.24 only BEGIN at verse 36! Why would he leave out ALL the previous verses of Matthew 24? Simple. Because in the previous Matt.24 verses, Jesus was giving the SIGNS for His servants to be watching leading up to His return. And He specifically declared the generation that sees all those signs will not end until they all occur, which is directly against the Imminent doctrine of men. It's as simple as that.

 

[Stan]

I have the WHOLE of the Matthew 24 chapter to support what I am saying.

Only towards the end of the Matthew 24 chapter did Jesus give the warning to be on watch for the signs He gave there leading up to the time of His coming.

Thus it's easy to notice rockytopva's quotes of Matt.24 only BEGIN at verse 36! Why would he leave out ALL the previous verses of Matthew 24? Simple. Because in the previous Matt.24 verses, Jesus was giving the SIGNS for His servants to be watching leading up to His return. And He specifically declared the generation that sees all those signs will not end until they all occur, which is directly against the Imminent doctrine of men. It's as simple as that.

So you don't accept Rev 22:20, where Jesus says; “Yes, I am coming soon.” ?

 

[veteran]

So you don't accept Rev 22:20, where Jesus says; “Yes, I am coming soon.” ?

Don't you believe the signs Jesus gave us to be watching in His Olivet Discourse of Matt.24 and Mark 13? How does He answer your question there, as He definitely did?

 

[Stan]

Don't you believe the signs Jesus gave us to be watching in His Olivet Discourse of Matt.24 and Mark 13? How does He answer your question there, as He definitely did?

I have no problem with anything in Matthew 24. Do you always answer a question with a question? Now stop diverting and answer my last question. This thread is about immanency.

 

[veteran]

I have no problem with anything in Matthew 24. Do you always answer a question with a question? Now stop diverting and answer my last question. This thread is about immanency.

Answering with a question is how my Lord Jesus tried to teach the blind Pharisees. If it was good enough for them, it's good enough for you. Jesus answered your question. You obviously have not found it yet.

 

[Stan]

Actually Jesus didn't want them to learn anything. He wanted to use them as an example, which is why he said to his disciples why he only spoke in parables. Simple people got it, just not the teachers of the law and Pharisees. You my friend are NOT Jesus. To intimate you are anything remotely like Him is, in my view, sacrilegious to say the least.
The only thing you demonstrate is self-righteousness, which I'm pretty sure is why Jesus made an example of the Pharisees.
Our discussion is over.