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The Doctrine of OSAS

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by justaname, May 12, 2013.

  1. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    Correct!

    I agree. Blessings lado. :)
     
  2. ladodgers6

    ladodgers6 New Member

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    mj, so can we stop God's plan of redemption? What did God promise Abraham? One of my favorite passages. The Gospel is good news, not another set of Laws and rules, a to do list. Christ has secured that for us. This is why it is important to keep the Pure Gospel of Paul as he preached it, and nothing else. We receive it with empty hands; meaning we cannot offer anything for it. Because nothing we have is worthy of it. We all fall short of God's glory. Here is the passages in John 10:

    22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me,[a] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”


     
  3. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    What happened at the cross was atonement and reconciliation for ALL men and sin.
    Salvation is found IN Jesus, ONLY when we confess Him and these facts.
    The NT clearly shows that redemption/reconciliation is NOT synonymous with salvation, which is why Paul tells us what He does in Rom 10:9-11 (NIV) and 1 Tim 6:12 (NIV)
     
  4. Jun2u

    Jun2u Well-Known Member

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    The above is a false statement! If the atonement is for all men and sins then it will mean that no one will come under God's judgment yet the Bible is very clear that hell will heavily be populated. Why is this so, could it be Jesus did not save everyone, but only His elect?
    Another false statement! You can confess Jesus every minute, every day, for the rest of your life, and you'll never become saved, unless the Father draw you to Jesus. John 6:44

    Here is the crux of the doctrine of OSAS, Jesus said in John 6:37:
    All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    To God Be The Glory
     
  5. ladodgers6

    ladodgers6 New Member

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    If atonement and reconciliation is for ALL men and sin, then why do people perish??? I agree Salvation is Christ Jesus, but we do not make his Cross effective by our activity. We believe with our NEW hearts and we confess because of our NEW MINDS because we understand and believe and this is the work of the Spirit. Its God's work of this NEW CREATION that we are now in Christ. Its his promise to save and justify the ungodly (Romans 4:5).

    Salvation is of the Lord (Jonah 2:9). So its a DIVINE ACT that we are saved. We are his sheep we hear him and follow him. And those who are not his sheep do not believe or hear him (John 10)​.

    So who gives us ​these NEW GIFTS; a new heart, a new mind follow God and his Laws? Ezekiel 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.



    And finally more scripture to who gives:​1 Corinthians 1:30
    30 But it is from Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God [revealing His plan of salvation], and righteousness [making us acceptable to God], and sanctification [making us holy and setting us apart for God], and redemption [providing our ransom from the penalty for sin],

    How do you address in John where Christ says that his sheep WILL NEVER PERISH, or snatch them out of my hand or my Father's hand???​






     
  6. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    John 3:16 (NIV)
    Rom 3:25 & 6:10 (NIV)
    Heb 2:17; 5:9; 9:5, 12, 26, & 10:10 (NIV)

    Just a few of the MANY scriptures that show this IS true.

    No one can confess Jesus if he is not drawn by God. 1 John 4:2 (NIV)

    The context of John 6:37, is Jesus talking to the Apostles regarding their lack of understanding, about what He states in v35. It does NOT define or teach OSAS. It teaches Jesus' faithfulness, and many others things which the Apostles didn't get and obviously neither do you.

    You can't ignore scriptures for the sake of those you think do support your POV, as Paul teaches in 2 Tim 3:16-17 (NIV)
    All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
     
  7. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    Amen Jun!
     
  8. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    John 6:35-40 NIV Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
     
  9. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    This part, ": my sheep "hear" my voice.

    Peter was sent to feed our Lords sheep , not everyone who claims to be a christian are His sheep,

    Joh_10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

    If you are not receiving revelation from God how can you say you are His sheep.

    In all His Love
     
  10. ladodgers6

    ladodgers6 New Member

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    I understand your position. I have asked you explain what does Christ mean, that his SHEEP WILL NEVER PERISH??? You do not address 1 Cor 1:30, where is states that it is God who gives to sinners and the ungodly. This is called the Gospel. The Gospel does not demands of us. The Gospel is good news, and the message is that God says "I will DO"! And the Law demands of us, perfect obedience! It threatens us if we do not fulfill its demands, which is the condemnation of death. When one understand what Christ actually accomplish on the Cross, then they will understand the wisdom of God, that God gives along with sanctification & righteousness. Clearly defined in 1 Cor 1:30.
     
  11. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    They will never perish because of belief John 3:16 NIV. The lost sheep however have not obtained salvation yet because of unbelief John 10:26 NIV...

    Matt 18:12-14 NIV “What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.

    Luke 19:9-10 NIV Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

    John 10:25-30 NIV Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

    1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

    Believers are actually no longer condemned...Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 5:28-29 NIV, John 8:11 NIV, John 16:11 NIV, Rom 3:6-8 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV, 2 Pet 2:3 NIV, 1 John 3:21 NIV, Jude 1:4-5 NIV
     
  12. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Thats because not everyone is His Sheep. Read my post. Out of the 12 disciples it was only Peter who was sent, as far as the bible states, to feed His sheep, that means there are far more who are not. Going to church does not make you His sheep, reading the bible does not make one His sheep.

    And yes His sheep wil never perish because they belong to Him and He knows them and they Know Him

    In all His love
     
  13. ladodgers6

    ladodgers6 New Member

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    They never perish because of Christ, not our belief. Its the object of our Faith that saves; namely Christ and his works that saves. We rest, hope, find assurance in Christ alone. People often times make a Christ out of their Faith. What do I mean by this? People think do I have enough Faith today. Is it enough to save me? What else do "I" need to do to be saved?? This is not the Gospel but another Gospel that puts the yoke of the Law on believers. Meaning obtaining a works righteousness to earn salvation.

    I know that believers are no longer under condemnation. Which makes my point. We are not under condemnation of the Law. Amen!!!

    So please do not avoid the question. What does Christ mean when he says, "My sheep will never perish"? NO ONE CAN SNATCH THEM OUT OF MY HAND!!! Because no matter what you say. This passage is crystal clear. To say that somebody can snatch them out f Christ hand is in error!!!
     
  14. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    It's our belief in Christ that results in eternal life. What are we believing in? Rom 10:9-10 NIV.
     
  15. ladodgers6

    ladodgers6 New Member

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    So its OUR FAITH that result in eternal life. No Sir, its the object of OUR faith that results in eternal life.

    What are we believing in? That there is absolutely nothing we can do to save ourselves. That we stand condemned before a Holy God. But God who is rich in Mercy, justifies the ungodly. Its God who shows Mercy & Compassion on whom He shows Mercy & Compassion. We are given eternal life because of God's Mercy & Compassion, and we receive it with a empty hand. We believe and trust God because we hear him and believe in him.

    Because even our Faith is a gift from God. Its his glory, power & kingdom. Its his Covenant of Redemption. Its good news!!!
     
  16. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Its an interesting topic because,


    Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
    Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

    im still certain God is going to surprise everyone, especially those who seem to thnk the ycan do it themselves??
     
  17. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    The only people trying to "do it themselves" are those who refuse the condition by which they may obtain salvation: by believing Jesus is BOTH their Savior from sin AND their Lord to be obeyed.

    The Unmerciful Servant of Matthew 18:21-35 KJV refused to conform his behavior to that of his Lord and in the end the Lord's forgiveness was revoked and he found himself condemned once again to pay the impossible debt which he could never repay - a symbol in Jesus' parable of our sin debt. OSAS dies as a false doctrine with that parable.
     
  18. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    With open hand, God calls others to take their place beside the saints in it. It is not by the closing of that hand the saints are secure from abduction, as if such a ridiculous measure would ever be necessary, but by the mere existence of His Sovereign Divine authority, before which His enemies cannot even begin to approach, let alone get close enough to threaten any one of us. This same open hand in which we are kept secure is also open to allow anyone the freedom to base-jump from it back down to the filth of sin and be lost again. While we cannot be separated from His love for us, we most certainly can renounce our love for Him, as in the case of Matthew 24:12-13 KJV where "the agape of many shall grow cold" and dead due to iniquity, but "he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved." - and also in the case of the Unmerciful Servant where the impossible debt from which he was originally wholly and completely forgiven was once again placed around his neck for choosing to manifest an iniquitous, unforgiving character instead of allowing his character to be conformed to the forgiving character of his lord.

    It's time for John 10:28-29 KJV and Romans 8:38-39 KJV to be rightfully understood instead of twisted to support the demonic doctrine of OSAS.
     
  19. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    Amen.

    Not really, but it's nice to think so.

    What are we believing in Phoneman?

    John 6:35-40 NIV Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
     
  20. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    More texts that fail to disprove that by our own choice while God stands by pleading to us not to leave Him we may forfeit eternal life by choosing a demonic master, a dead vine, dead bread, dead beliefs.
     
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