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The Doctrine of OSAS

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by justaname, May 12, 2013.

  1. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
    29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
    • 30 And those he predestined, he also called;
    • those he called, he also justified;
    • those he justified, he also glorified.
     
  2. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    Is Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles a demon? Rom 10:9-11
     
  3. justaname

    justaname Disciple of Jesus Christ Staff Member

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    A post of Scripture without your explanation does nothing. Where does this say people are saved before they are called?
     
  4. Jun2u

    Jun2u Well-Known Member

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    I beg to differ, but Paul never started a church, If anything Peter could fill the bill, but he too cannot start a church! Jesus said in Mt 16:18:

    And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”.

    Consider the event on Pentecost when Peter stood up to preach and three thousand were saved, and we read down the road how God also added to the church.

    The church that Jesus built consisted of all true believers scattered throughout the local churches of the world which spiritually is also called the Bride of Christ.

    God never set the Jews aside. Paul declared in Ro 11:i:

    I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin”.

    You see, Abraham was a Gentile and became a Jew only after he was circumcised!!!
    So the true seed of Abrahan was not the Jews outwardly only but one inwardly also.

    The Gospel was never hidden.


    r 25:2
    It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings (believers) is to search out a matter”.

    In answer to your last paragraph above, all sins are forgivable except the sin against the Holy Ghost.

    The only true statement you've made was that salvation is the accomplished work of God.

    To God Be The Glor
     
  5. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    If death can no longer separate us from God and the lake of fire is the second death, then wouldn't that make God a liar if He's throwing His elect into the lake of fire. :wacko:

    Rom 8:38-39 ESV For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Rev 20:14 NIV Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

    blessings.
     
  6. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    Sorry I though the bullet form would help you.

    Do you not think there is an order in these verses, or that they are just random?
    Those God foreknew are those that love Him, and those that love Him are those that accept His son because He draws then to Jesus.
    The rest is self evident.
     
  7. justaname

    justaname Disciple of Jesus Christ Staff Member

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    God knows all who love Him. These are predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ.

    So then can these from this portion of Scripture "lose their salvation"?

    Also then from your standpoint the calling mentioned in this portion of scripture must be effectual, correct? Then you are basically stating before these ever heard the gospel, they were saved.
     
  8. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    Exactly.

    I have already addressed this point. It's not about LOSING. It's about not finishing, or about falling away.

    The calling is EFFECTIVE, as it comes after one is saved. Whether it remains effective is up to the individual who is called.
     
  9. justaname

    justaname Disciple of Jesus Christ Staff Member

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    Yet the passage also speaks of glorification. Are you stating the chain of God's predestination can be broken?


    Here is another passage that is related...

    1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. - Romans 5:1-2

    And...

    9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
    10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. - Romans 5:9-10
     
  10. justaname

    justaname Disciple of Jesus Christ Staff Member

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    If the calling is effectual so must be the remaining portion of the chain. None have seen glory this side of heaven...

    To state this another way, those who are predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ will complete what God has predestined them to which ends in glorification and salvation. This is because God has predestined their outcome. Those who walk away as you might say were never predestined through unto glory because they were predestined to walk away. Thus they were never saved to begin with. Yet I must state, these walk away at their own choosing, not that God is culpable for their choice.


    24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?
    25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience. - Romans 8:24-25
     
  11. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    ?? No idea what you are talking about.

    His sheep are those who belong to Him, some Jews some Gentiles. It was not till after Penetcost that we where invited along for the ride. And it has nothing to do with the law. PS not religious like God.
     
  12. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    That is the problem. You have no idea as to what is being said. You are saying that Peter and the others were teaching the grace gospel along with Paul and that is certainly not supported by the scriptures shown below.

    Think about this. Those under the Law will not believe in OSAS because they place their faith in their ability to not sin and their religious activities. Those under grace believe that we are not saved by what we do but by what Jesus did for us on the cross (paid for our sins of the flesh). You can't place your faith in your ability to do works to earn salvation and in what Jesus did for you at the same time. One cancels out the other.

    All I hear from the religious is that Peter and Paul taught the same gospel. The scriptures do not support that idea. As far as the 21st Chapter of Acts we see James teaching the Jewish Law that had to be followed. James even tried to get Paul to go back under the Law but God did not let the ritual be completed.

    Acts 21:18-24
    18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present.
    19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
    20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;
    """"21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.""""
    22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come.
    23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow.
    24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.
    NKJV

    Was Paul teaching that the Jews and the whole world was not under the law of Moses any longer??? Absolutely!!!!!! Was James teaching the same thing??? Absolutely NOT!

    Gal 5:1-4
    5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
    2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
    3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
    4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
    NKJV

    Religious tradition has taught the world that Peter started the church on Pentecost. Not supported by the scriptures. Peter was certainly not preaching to the Gentiles on Pentecost. When he the said the following it was to the Jews only.
    Acts 2:22
    22 "Men of """Israel""", hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know —
    NKJV
     
  13. ladodgers6

    ladodgers6 New Member

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    The topic is about OSAS, now I don't like the acronym, because it does not do justice to the Gospel. I love the golden chain of Salvation passage found in Romans 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. This passage again shows whose the giving (The Gospel), whose doing the work, which is God. Why? because we cannot do it as the stand as sinners. So God does it in us Son for us. I do agree with you that we as believers MUST walk in holiness. We are NOW children of God and lights to the world. We MUST perform good works, but not to confuse these good deeds as a merit to gain salvation. We always have confidence and assurance in Christ Alone. There lies OUR salvation and nowhere else. So go perform good works because you are ALREADY SAVED. Bear fruit in Spirit, and don't despair when you fall to sin because Christ came to save believers too! This is the Gospel.
     
  14. Barrd

    Barrd His Humble Servant

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    Do you realize that, if this is true (and it is), then the first century church knew nothing about OSAS?

    If the saved ones are pre-chosen, then why would Paul bother to preach the gospel?

    For that matter, the whole crucifixion was a sham. God could have just stayed home, and said, "Okay, I pick you, and you, and you....but I don't like you or you, or you....
    Unless He is just a masochist or something...
     
  15. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    Yes it does, but how exactly does that relate to this question? Of course God's plan for our lives can be broken, as you put it, because it depends on OUR obedience. I'm sure there are dozens of examples of this in scripture. If you're not sure what 'predestination' connotes in the NT, try replacing it with planned.

    related to what exactly?

    This is specific to God's wrath, NOT spiritual salvation. Do you really not understand context and connotation?
     
  16. Barrd

    Barrd His Humble Servant

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    If the first century church knew nothing about OSAS, then that is not what Paul was teaching.

    Not rocket science...
     
  17. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    yes it is, and one that only RT teaches. They label it Eternal Security, but basically it holds only as far as God is concerned, NOT those who get saved. Once Saved Always Saved is NOT taught in scripture, and in fact is shown be examples to NOT holdup.
    I'm sorry, but the rest of your post is a tad incohesive, so I suggest you carefully restate what you wanted to say here. Perhaps point form would be clearer?
     
  18. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    Keyword IF, and IF that doesn't hold then the balance of your statement here doesn't hold. Maybe you can explain what EFFECTUAL means to you?
     
  19. justaname

    justaname Disciple of Jesus Christ Staff Member

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    You have a wrong concept of προορίζω...

    predestine; foreordain
    BDAG predetermine,
    LSJ determine beforehand; predetermine, predestine
    DBL Greek decide beforehand

    This is different than God had one plan for our life but he isn't sure if we are going to follow that plan.

    You have a weak view of God and think highly of yourself if this is the position you hold to here...

    As far as the other Romans passage being specific to God's wrath what do you think we are being saved from? Those who not in Christ are children of wrath.
     
  20. Barrd

    Barrd His Humble Servant

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    If God does not offer us a choice, then the whole thing is a sham.
    Christ's crucifixion becomes a worthless gesture.
    Nothing more than a mockery.

    I will not believe that.
     
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