The Doctrine of OSAS
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I answered his question some time last night.StanJ said:
I'm still waiting for the magic dots....
I try.The Barrd said:And that's why I love you so, my brother...
Simple...but pithy!
Drives my kids bonkers some times cuz I laugh when they don't get it!Careful.The Barrd said:I answered his question some last night.
I'm still waiting for the magic dots....
My grandkids would adore you...StanJ said:I try.
After absenting myself for a few days from this thread, I thought that if I just read the last half a dozen posts I would quickly catch up on what I presumed would be a continuing highly intellectual and spiritually inspired conversation searching the depths and nuances of sacred scripture thus uncovering and unearthing a veritable mine of precious gems and jewels to delight the discerning mind and enlighten the truth-seeking soul.
What I found was delightfully colored dots, references to the skin of oranges, and a puddle. Now I never did have the privilege of a theological education in any formal institution, I realize now more than any other time in my 40 odd years of faith, that I have indeed been utterly deprived, and am admonished and shamed at my neglect and reticence in having done so.I'm joining up tomorrow...I have much to learn.
What I found was delightfully colored dots, references to the skin of oranges, and a puddle. Now I never did have the privilege of a theological education in any formal institution, I realize now more than any other time in my 40 odd years of faith, that I have indeed been utterly deprived, and am admonished and shamed at my neglect and reticence in having done so.I'm joining up tomorrow...I have much to learn.
We took time out for a friendly little chuckle...lforrest said:I needed a good laugh
Lets try to keep on topic everyone, It's about OSAS.
Back on track.
1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Now, these people were obviously born-again Christians.
They were "once enlightened"...that light only comes from Christ.
They had "tasted of the heavenly gift"...the heavenly gift comes from Christ
They were made "partakers of the Holy Spirit"...uh, who is it that partakes of the Holy Spirit? Born-again Christians.
They had "tasted the good word of God"....again, that would be Christ.
And "the powers of the world to come."....it may seem redundant, but these guys were definitely born-again Christians.
There is no point at all in trying to say that their faith was not heart-faith, or that they "had no root in them." The fact is that these were born-again Christians, just like any one of us, and they fell away.
This passage alone proves that OSAS is a false doctrine.
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Now, these people were obviously born-again Christians.
They were "once enlightened"...that light only comes from Christ.
They had "tasted of the heavenly gift"...the heavenly gift comes from Christ
They were made "partakers of the Holy Spirit"...uh, who is it that partakes of the Holy Spirit? Born-again Christians.
They had "tasted the good word of God"....again, that would be Christ.
And "the powers of the world to come."....it may seem redundant, but these guys were definitely born-again Christians.
There is no point at all in trying to say that their faith was not heart-faith, or that they "had no root in them." The fact is that these were born-again Christians, just like any one of us, and they fell away.
This passage alone proves that OSAS is a false doctrine.
Then there are these guys that Peter tells us about:
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
These people had "escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ". In other words, they were born-again Christians. But they were "again entangled therein, and overcome", and "the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." Life happens. Temptations happen. And, yes...born-again Christians can become "entangled therein and overcome."
Yes, even today, it happens.
But God, through the mouth of His Apostle Peter, tells us that "it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."
It's no use trying to say that these people did not have "heart-faith". None of us can see into someone else's heart...this is not a judgment we are called to make. The passage doesn't say that they didn't have heart-faith, it says that they had escaped the pollutions of this world, and that they had known the way of righteousness. It's no good to try to say that they had no root in them. That's just trying to twist the passage to make it fit into the OSAS doctrine. It doesn't help to try to say that God wasn't really saving that one anyway...God has not called any one of us to sit in committee with Him and decide who is and who is not to be saved. The gift of salvation is freely offered to every single one of us.
"But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
And that is what God has to say about it.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
These people had "escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ". In other words, they were born-again Christians. But they were "again entangled therein, and overcome", and "the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." Life happens. Temptations happen. And, yes...born-again Christians can become "entangled therein and overcome."
Yes, even today, it happens.
But God, through the mouth of His Apostle Peter, tells us that "it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."
It's no use trying to say that these people did not have "heart-faith". None of us can see into someone else's heart...this is not a judgment we are called to make. The passage doesn't say that they didn't have heart-faith, it says that they had escaped the pollutions of this world, and that they had known the way of righteousness. It's no good to try to say that they had no root in them. That's just trying to twist the passage to make it fit into the OSAS doctrine. It doesn't help to try to say that God wasn't really saving that one anyway...God has not called any one of us to sit in committee with Him and decide who is and who is not to be saved. The gift of salvation is freely offered to every single one of us.
"But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
And that is what God has to say about it.
Sadly, RT doesn't agree with that, although for the most part they ignore it along with Heb 10:38-39 (NIV)The Barrd said:
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Now why would God see fit to have His Apostle Peter warn us of this adversary of ours...unless he is a true and present danger?
Now why would God see fit to have His Apostle Peter warn us of this adversary of ours...unless he is a true and present danger?
Well then, RT would be the fast track to hell...StanJ said:
Ignoring the Word of God is not very wise...at least in my humble opinion.
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Let us pray that we continue to be "of them that believe to the saving of the soul." Let us not be drawn into temptation, lest we fall prey to our adversary.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Let us pray that we continue to be "of them that believe to the saving of the soul." Let us not be drawn into temptation, lest we fall prey to our adversary.
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