The Doctrine of OSAS

[StanJ]

Well then, RT would be the fast track to hell...

Ignoring the Word of God is not very wise...at least in my humble opinion.

I agree, but perspective is not always clear in this regard, especially when on is inculcated into the doctrine rather than how to exegete the word of God.

 

[ATP]

Is God in contradiction here...

Heb 6:6 NIV and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Heb 10:10-12 NIV And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.

Heb 10:26 NIV If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

"Repentance that leads to death" is referring to the sacrifices of animals in the OT. How can believers crucify the Son of God all over again when Jesus only died once for sins. Heb 6:1 NIV, Heb 6:6 NIV, Heb 10:10-12 NIV.

How can there be no sacrifice for sins left when the body of Jesus was the one time sacrifice for sins Heb 10:10-12 NIV, Heb 10:26 NIV. Deliberately keep on sinning is actually describing nonbelievers...Rom 6:14 NIV, 1 John 3:6 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV, 1 John 5:18 NIV.

 

[Barrd]

I agree, but perspective is not always clear in this regard, especially when on is inculcated into the doctrine rather than how to exegete the word of God.

They could just read the Bible.

 

[ATP]

2 Pet 2:1 NIV - The chapter starts off by telling us who the audience is, false prophets and false teachers. 2 Pet 2:1 NIV also explains how they deny Christ. Those who deny the deity of Christ are nonbelievers and are of the antichrist spirit Tit 1:15-16 NIV, 1 John 2:22 NIV, Jude 1:4-7 NIV.

2 Pet 2:3 NIV - This verse clearly tells us that these people are still condemned, but believers in Christ are no longer condemned by God...Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 5:28-29 NIV, John 8:11 NIV, John 16:11 NIV, Rom 3:6-8 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV, 2 Pet 2:3 NIV, 1 John 3:21 NIV, Jude 1:4-5 NIV.

2 Pet 2:8 NIV - This verse clearly separates the righteous from the lawless, and scripture clearly states that believers are no longer condemned as lawless. We are no longer of the antichrist spirit...2 Thess 2:3 NIV, 2 Thess 2:7-9 NIV, Heb 10:17 NIV, 2 Pet 2:7-8 NIV.

2 Pet 2:9 NIV - This verse clearly states that the unrighteous are held for punishment on the day of judgment, but scripture clearly states that nonbelievers are the one's who will experience punishment...Dan 12:1 NIV, Matt 24:21-22 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, John 5:29 NIV, John 6:35-40 NIV *, John 6:54 NIV, John 12:48 NIV, Rom 2:5 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, 1 Thess 1:9-10 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9-10 NIV, Heb 4:3 ESV, Rev 3:10 NIV.

Scripture also states that believers will not be punished, rather we will be rewarded at the Bema Seat of Christ...Matt 5:12 NIV, Matt 6:20 NIV, 1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV, 1 Cor 9:24-27 NIV, Phil 3:12-14 NIV, Col 2:18 NIV, 1 Thess 2:19 NIV, 2 Tim 2:5 NIV, 2 Tim 4:8 NIV, Heb 10:34-35 NIV, James 1:12 NIV, 1 Pet 5:2-4 NIV, 2 John 1:8-11 NIV, Rev 2:10 NIV, Rev 3:11 NIV, Rev 11:18 NIV, Rev 22:12 NIV.

2 Pet 2:14 NIV - This verse clearly tells us that these people never stop sinning, but believers in Christ no longer keep on sinning...Rom 6:14 NIV, 1 John 3:6 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV, 1 John 5:18 NIV.

2 Pet 2:17 NIV - This verse clearly tells us that these people are springs without water, but scripture tells us that believers in Christ are springs WITH water...John 4:13-14 NIV, John 7:38-39 NIV, 1 Pet 3:21 NIV, Rev 7:17 NIV, Rev 21:6 NIV, Rev 22:1-2 NIV, Rev 22:17 NIV.

 

[ATP]

Heb 10:38-39 NIV - The author clearly is speaking of two different people here. "But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed". Why? Because we belong to Christ...John 8:34-36 NIV, John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, 2 Cor 10:7 NIV, Gal 2:12 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 5:24 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV.

 

[StanJ]

They could just read the Bible.

WITH understanding would be the key.

 

[Barrd]

WITH understanding would be the key.

The Bible is not intended for scholars, but for simple people.
Did the angels bring the message of the Holy Birth to scholars. No. They went to a group of shepherds. And who did Jesus call to be His apostles? Did He go to the learned doctors of the law? No. He went to simple fisher folk.

The key is not understanding, so much as it is a childlike heart.

Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

See? Jesus agrees with me.

 

[justaname]

The Bible is not intended for scholars, but for simple people.
Did the angels bring the message of the Holy Birth to scholars. No. They went to a group of shepherds. And who did Jesus call to be His apostles? Did He go to the learned doctors of the law? No. He went to simple fisher folk.

The key is not understanding, so much as it is a childlike heart.

Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

See? Jesus agrees with me.

This does not say read the Bible as a child...this is about receiving the Kingdom as a child...in other words in complete trust and faith.

For you to say the Bible is not intended for scholars is another false premise...it is intended for all who will receive it for salvation.

This is all I want to say about this off topic subject...

 

[justaname]

I agree, but perspective is not always clear in this regard, especially when on is inculcated into the doctrine rather than how to exegete the word of God.

Yes and we have already witnessed your eisegesis on the Romans passage...the finger you are pointing at others is connected to three others pointing back at you on that hand.

 

[justaname]

What I can't comprehend is why people would think God would start saving someone that He knows will eventually apostatize. God is omniscient and logical. This premise goes against both of these traits of God.

Salvation is not something to be lost, it can only be gained.

Every time you read a warning passage ask yourself, "Self, which soil is God talking about here?"

Jesus states He will not lose any the Father has given to Him. These are those whose names have been in the Lambs book of life since before the foundations of the world. Jesus says "I, myself! Will raise them at the last day..."

What part of that do people not believe?

 

[StanJ]

Yes and we have already witnessed your eisegesis on the Romans passage...the finger you are pointing at others is connected to three others pointing back at you on that hand.

this is nothing but sour grapes on your part. Using doctrinal vernacular is why I refused to debate further with you. You just DON'T get it, and making unfounded accusations now and then just proves it.

 

[StanJ]

The Bible is not intended for scholars, but for simple people.
Did the angels bring the message of the Holy Birth to scholars. No. They went to a group of shepherds. And who did Jesus call to be His apostles? Did He go to the learned doctors of the law? No. He went to simple fisher folk.

The key is not understanding, so much as it is a childlike heart.

Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

See? Jesus agrees with me.

This is true, but not about rightly dividing the written word. I accepted Jesus in child like faith way before I started reading the Bible with ANY comprehension.
I think more accurately, YOU agree with Jesus!

 

[StanJ]

What I can't comprehend is why people would think God would start savinging someone that He knows will eventually apostatize. God is omniscient and logical. This premise goes against both of these traits of God.

Salvation is not something to be lost, it can only be gained.

Every time you read a warning passage ask yourself, "Self, which soil is God talking about here?"

Again this is because your TULIP won't allow you to consider it. When you read 2 Peter 3:9 (NIV), what does it tell you,
or John 3:16 & 18 (NIV)?

 

[justaname]

Again this is because your TULIP won't allow you to consider it. When you read 2 Peter 3:9 (NIV), what does it tell you,
or John 3:16 & 18 (NIV)?

Stan,

I am not a Calvinist...this has been your false belief all along...

I do not believe in limited atonement. You have had a straw man in your head through our debate...

Neither am I reformed...

As far as TULIP is concerned maybe TUP...

 

[justaname]

this is nothing but sour grapes on your part. Using doctrinal vernacular is why I refused to debate further with you. You just DON'T get it, and making unfounded accusations now and then just proves it.

And the above post disproves what you are saying here...

I remember you stopping when I asked pointed questions concerning your position...

 

[StanJ]

Stan,

I am not a Calvinist...this has been your false belief all along...
I do not believe in limited atonement. You have had a straw man in your head through our debate...
Neither am I reformed...

I never called you a Calvinists as I don't use the term. How many petals/points do you accept? Are you a supporter of Amyraldism? I have trouble keeping track of all the diversities.

It might be good if you put it in writing somewhere like your profile, instead and avoiding it like you appear to do throughout your posts.

 

[Barrd]

This is true, but not about rightly dividing the written word. I accepted Jesus in child like faith way before I started reading the Bible with ANY comprehension.
I think more accurately, YOU agree with Jesus!

I always have, Stan.
Ever since I was a child of twelve.
I've learned a few things since those early days, of course...
But Jesus is still my Hero...and He always will be.

I suppose I had a bit of a head start...I had already read, comprehended, and thoroughly enjoyed Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream" and "The Merchant of Venice", as well as Kipling's wonderful stories, a great deal of Edgar Allen Poe, and I could sing for you "Robinson Crusoe's Story"...a poem by a fella named Charles Edward Carryl...at least, I think that's how it's spelled.

I was a very smart little kid... -_-

 

[StanJ]

And the above post disproves what you are saying here...

you actually have to SHOW it, not just state it.

 

[StanJ]

I always have, Stan.
Ever since I was a child of twelve.
I've learned a few things since those early days, of course...
But Jesus is still my Hero...and He always will be.

I suppose I had a bit of a head start...I had already read, comprehended, and thoroughly enjoyed Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream" and "The Merchant of Venice", as well as Kipling's wonderful stories, a great deal of Edgar Allen Poe, and I could sing for you "Robinson Crusoe's Story"...a poem by a fella named Charles Edward Carryl...at least, I think that's how it's spelled.

I was a very smart little kid... -_-

yeh my teachers used to say that But I never believed them. Never did understand or have the patience for Elizabethan English.

You appear to be smart now, but that doesn't mean scholarly does it? Just sayin.

 

[justaname]

I never called you a Calvinists as I don't use the term. How many petals/points do you accept? Are you a supporter of Amyraldism? I have trouble keeping track of all the diversities.

It might be good if you put it in writing somewhere like your profile, instead and avoiding it like you appear to do throughout your posts.

I edited my two posts...you may want to read them...

Yet knowing my positions does nothing in interpreting the Word of God, only in arguing against my position. I have never asked your stances nor do I care to know them. If you have a valid point, I will consider it. Yet you must be able to communicate those with Scripture as your support. In everything I have presented this far I have done just that.