The doctrine of the trinity, it's origins

[DNB]

Right, well, I thought I proved this to be the case already with my dissertation of revelation. However, all the dissertations doesn't compare to being a witness to it. Seeing the son and father face to face on their thrones is the ultimate form of evidence. It will certainly disprove once and for all the diversified oneness claptrap.

Ok, then ultimately speaking, yes, time will tell. I just think that Paul & Peter, and those of the Apostolic age, somehow had much more conviction than a sort of, 'we will see' attitude. Sound wisdom should be able to speak for itself.
But, you're saying that there's always an element of faith, or 'through a glass darkly' in our current vision.

 

[Dcopymope]

Ok, then ultimately speaking, yes, time will tell. I just think that Paul & Peter, and those of the Apostolic age, somehow had much more conviction than a sort of, 'we will see' attitude. Sound wisdom should be able to speak for itself.
But, you're saying that there's always an element of faith, or 'through a glass darkly' in our current vision.

Like I said, time always tells the truth in the end. When combating false beliefs, it becomes your best companion. For those believing they will be snatched up in the sky on the Day of the Lord, time will show them otherwise, giving them a rude awakening, to give an example. People will believe whatever their itching ears desires to hear that appeases their own personal interpretations, and they will have the nerve to claim the holy spirit brought them to their conclusions. I'm well aware of the the disciples convictions on the Godhead. Its very clear from the text that there is are two different persons within it with a chain of command, well, at least to those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

 

[101G]

Right, well, I thought I proved this to be the case already with my dissertation of revelation. However, all the dissertations doesn't compare to being a witness to it. Seeing the son and father face to face on their thrones is the ultimate form of evidence. It will certainly disprove once and for all the diversified oneness claptrap.

you failed in Revelation, and here's where you fail. you said the son was sitting next to the Father, the bible clearly states that only one sits on the throne. and two it's the Lord Jesus who sits on the throne.

PICJAG.

 

[Dcopymope]

you failed in Revelation, and here's where you fail. you said the son was sitting next to the Father, the bible clearly states that only one sits on the throne. and two it's the Lord Jesus who sits on the throne.

PICJAG.

Your "diversified oneness" is a failure, and here is where it fails, it claims Jesus is equal with this father by putting him on that throne.

 

[Heart2Soul]

H2S, if I may, I think that that's fantastic that you have not succumbed to such a radically confusing, and utterly Biblically discreet (if at all), doctrine.
On this forum I believe that the majority are trinitarian (as the logo implies), and many forum's statement of faith demands allegiance to the doctrine of the trinity. My point is, we're outnumbered. Thus, your boldness and convictions are commendable. Remember, many are called, few are chosen.
And just so I don't appear as an ally just yet, I'd like to make it clear that I don't deify Jesus in any manner. So I profoundly do not hold to 101G's views either.
But, I meant every word about your boldness, and your insistence on not just taking people's word for granted.

I appreciate your kindness, I am still seeking Him on this....and the more I seek the more error I see beginning all the way back to the first split of the church.
I have been praying for a while now that He would show me His Hidden Wisdom and reveal His mysteries. This topic has come up before and it didn't have any affect on me as much as @101G's thread....and now I have to pray and ask for clarification and confirmation to what God spoke to me today in prayer on this matter.....(not what I was expecting).

 

[marksman]

marksman, i trust that you have read your Bible, and I assume several times, to say the least.
Thus, do you see the doctrine of the trinity there (rhetorical)?
marksman, that church that imposed their views upon you, remember this, as 'concerned' as they are with your salvation now, they will not by their own accord, or by God's permission, come to your defense on Judgement Day. Do not be forced into something that you are not convicted of, you will only have yourself to blame on that Day. There will be no '...well they coerced me to believe it...' excuses.
Don't ever let them intimidate you, for one, that's usually a sign that they can't compel you with wisdom and truth. An two, like I said, they will not stick their necks out for you on Judgment Day, saying '...it was our fault, we lead him astray...' I'm alluding to their duplicity and cowardice, and thus, their lack of truth and wisdom.

My experience is that denominations tend to think they are infallible.

 

[marksman]

I am, just not torn up about it since I don't really see it as a salvation issue.

Maybe not but there is such a thing as the whole counsel of God and moving on from glory to glory.

 

[marksman]

marksman please, don't argue in circles. We are commenting and expositing on what we believe to be the truth, and why.
Don't jump to conclusions before the verdict is in from the forum, for that's why we're here. For, obviously I'm prepared to state that you have absolutely no reverence for the truth, just as easily. Which i do believe.

marksman, did I just completely misunderstand your position? Or, what you were actually getting at?

Yes. I am autistic and one of our characteristics is that we are always asking questions because we have a thirst for knowledge. There is no hidden agenda when it comes to autistic people. As they say, what you see is what you get.

 

[Heart2Soul]

My experience is that denominations tend to think they are infallible.

That's one of the whole issues about churches today.....it was never God's intent that there be numerous denominations....these denominations formed out of strife and division of the church it split from. This in turn became the downward spiral of His Church whose foundation was laid with Christ being the Chief Cornerstone and when these denominations built on it their material was mixed with hay and stubble which will not survive the fire.

 

[Enoch111]

A genuine believer should not be baptised in the trinity. he or she should be baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, the same as they were in the New Testament Church.

So what you are claiming is that the recorded words and commands of Christ should be simply ignored by genuine believers. Is that foolishness or blasphemy?

While we do not see that command of Christ repeated in the book of Acts, "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ" implies in the name of God. And the name of God includes the three divine Persons of the Godhead (Mt 28:19).

And to prove that this is true, we have the recorded words of Justin Martyr as well as the writer of the Didache establishing the fact that the early Christians did exactly what the Lord commanded.

"St. Justin Martyr (100–165) was a second-century Christian apologist and one of our earliest testimonies to the worship of the Early Church. A pagan convert, he died a Christian martyr in Rome. In St. Justin’s First Apology (ca. 150), he writes regarding Christian Baptism:

I will also relate the manner in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we had been made new through Christ; lest, if we omit this, we seem to be unfair in the explanation we are making. As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. "

"The Didache On The Baptism Of Converts

Now concerning baptism, baptize as follows: after you have reviewed all these things, baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in running water. But if you have no running water, then baptize in some other water; and if you are not able to baptize in cold water, then do so in warm. But if you have neither, then pour water on the head three times in the name of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit. And before the baptism let the one baptizing and the who who is to be baptized fast, as well as any others who are able. Also, you must instruct the one who is to be baptized to fast for one or two days beforehand.

Didache, ch. 7 (early 2nd century) trans. Michael W. Holmes, The Apostolic Fathers: Greek Texts and English Translations, 3rd edn (Grand Rapids: Baker, 2007).

 

[DNB]

People will believe whatever their itching ears desires to hear that appeases their own personal interpretations, and they will have the nerve to claim the holy spirit brought them to their conclusions.

My sentiments exactly, the utter irreverent nerve!

 

[DNB]

I appreciate your kindness, I am still seeking Him on this....and the more I seek the more error I see beginning all the way back to the first split of the church.
I have been praying for a while now that He would show me His Hidden Wisdom and reveal His mysteries. This topic has come up before and it didn't have any affect on me as much as @101G's thread....and now I have to pray and ask for clarification and confirmation to what God spoke to me today in prayer on this matter.....(not what I was expecting).

Oh, very interesting (your last statement)! I hope that whatever was revealed to you, that you are able to find the meaning and wisdom, and ultimately, the glory to God, behind it.
And if I may (maybe not necessary), always remember, you will be standing before God on your own, on Judgement Day. You will have to explain what you believe. i.e. those that may have lead you one way or another, will not be willing, nor will have the opportunity to come to your defense. You must be thoroughly convicted of what you profess, on your own. (sorry, if this wasn't necessary to point out).
Best of luck H2S, God bless!

 

[DNB]

My experience is that denominations tend to think they are infallible.

Yes, something about ruler-ship and hierarchy, tends to swell people's heads.

 

[DNB]

Yes. I am autistic and one of our characteristics is that we are always asking questions because we have a thirst for knowledge. There is no hidden agenda when it comes to autistic people. As they say, what you see is what you get.

I'm sorry then. I completely misunderstood the manner that you posed the question. i thought that you were accusing me of teaching falsehood, as if i didn't care on the accuracy of my statements. My point was, one must first prove me wrong before determining where the falsehood lies (which is the point of this thread). (I say this just to explain my initial response.)
But, after reading your other posts, I see that you were being inquisitive, not accusative.
My apologies again, ...you may inundate me with as many questions as you like....
Thanks!

 

[101G]

Your "diversified oneness" is a failure, and here is where it fails, it claims Jesus is equal with this father by putting him on that throne.

GINOLJC, to all,
first thanks for the reply. second, we see you have not read your bible. diversified oneness didn't put him on the throne, lets see who put him on the throne, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool". Who told him to sit? ... thank you, now this, because he sit not only as King, but as High Priest, fulfiling the Melchisedec preisthood. Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high". BINGO. well Dcopymope, Jesus is sitting on the throne, and he's not next to anyone. RIGHT HAND is a metaphor for the omnipotence of God. my,my,my.

and as for the "equalness", don't your own trinity doctrine states all your three are ... "Co-equal?", what! you don't know your own doctrine... no worries, listen, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". notice "equal" WITH, not equal "TO", but EQUAL with. in using equal with it's the same person "shared", but if it would have said equal "TO", then it would be indicating a separate and distinct Person.

REVELATION TIME: this is what separate "diversified oneness" from the trinity. the Lord Jesus is a "distinct" entity "WITH" the Spirit/the Holy Spirit whom you calls the Father, as his equal "SHARE" of himself in flesh. understand now. see in the trinitarian mind of thinking, you have Jesus as a "distinct", and "Seperate" person as God. meaning two person "separate" and "distinct", see the difference now.

so your training of the Godhead is ravish by false deception, and steals the Glory of God by your ingorance. simply put, the devil by your lack of understanding is robbing you of God's Glory.

we suggest you look at what we just posted.

PICJAG.

 

[reformed1689]

Honestly, the leading trintarian proponents do say otherwise. I have yet to hear any reputable theologian say that it's explicit, or taught.
It's entirely inferred, and barely implicit. It's the quintessence of eisegesis.
Truly! Not to mention exceptionally absurd in all its facets of Christian theology (soteriology, ontology, Biblical attestation, justice, etc..).
Convoluted nonsense without exception.

You are wrong. The only thing Trinitarians say is that it is not explicit in one single passage. Nobody reputable says it is only inferred from Scripture. It is clearly taught in Scripture.

 

[reformed1689]

well if that is true, reconcile John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 as yous say is "separate person". we say its the same person in Spirit, shared.

your answer please.

PICJAG.

Three persons, one essence. Let US (plural) make man in OUR (plural) own image.

 

[101G]

Three persons, one essence. Let US (plural) make man in OUR (plural) own image.

ERROR, in Isaiah 44:24 he was "ALONE", and, "BY HIMSELF", that's a mute point. but let us explain the Godhead to you.

I see one of the problem that many are having with the false doctrine of the trinity. many, as said, that even the expert have said, "the trinity is a mystery". we of "diversified oneness", say no, that's a trick of the devil. will one sit here and have God give you the bible and tell you that you can know his Godhead and then don't reveal it to you? NO, if that was true then God would be just as worst as the devil, God forbid. listen, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them”. WAIT a minute, God has Shown us? yes, by what's manifested in us. well HOW? next verse. Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse”. here God tells us clearly that his Godhead can be understood, by what he made, and it's manifested in us. but false teaching has muddle your minds. so let get MR. Clean/the LORD JESUS in here to clean up our filthy little dirty MINDS so we may see him, the TRUTH. the scripture states, his Godhead are seen by the THINGS that are MADE, and this is manifested in us.

step #1. what things was made that shows the Godhead? answer, MANKIND/ADAM. what do we mean here? “ANOTHER” of oneself in Flesh. for Adam means "ANOTHER" of ONESELF.

step #2. ok, an ”ANOTHER” but HOW? answer, by “sharing” of ONESELF in a different form. hence the "distinct" but not separate.

step #3. ok, “Sharing” of oneself, but HOW? answer, coming from the First, or the source, other words, “emanating”, which means, (of something abstract but perceptible) issue or spread out from (a source).

now knowing these steps, lets put them together. Adam was made of God corect, and Eve “came” out of the man Adam correct. now the Lord Jesus said this at John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father”.

this word “came forth” in the Greek is G1831 ἐξέρχομαι exerchomai (ex-er'-cho-mai) v.
to issue.
{literally or figuratively}
[from G1537 and G2064]
KJV: come (forth, out), depart (out of), escape, get out, go (abroad, away, forth, out, thence), proceed (forth), spread abroad
Root(s): G1537, G2064

notice the definition “to issue”. now lets Go to Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God”. the term “Form” is the Greek word, G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313

notice it’s root word where it comes from which reveals the nature of the Godhead, listen, its the Greek word, G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1.a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
in definition #1. a Portion means “SHARE”, which also means “ISSUE” as in “came forth” in John 16:28 ... so the Lord Jesus is the "EQUAL" of the same "Spirit"/Holy Spirit which you call GOD. Jesus is a "DISTINCT "entity" of the same one person who he "ISSUED", "Came forth" from, or "SHARD" in Nature with, "EQUALLY". BINGO.

this is what separate diversified oneness form the trinity. instead of a separate person, it's the same person only equally "shared...
not two separate person who is God, that's two seperate Gods. but diversified oneness have only "ONE" person who is "shared" that IS God. man oh man how easy it is.

so if one just research, and root out words the answer will be given unto. as the scriptures states, 2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth”.

so we divided the word of TRUTH correctly. we used scriptures and research to reveal the TRUTH. (BINGO).
PICJAG.

 

[reformed1689]

ERROR, in Isaiah 44:24 he was "ALONE", and, "BY HIMSELF", that's a mute point. but let us explain the Godhead to you.

I see one of the problem that many are having with the false doctrine of the trinity. many, as said, that even the expert have said, "the trinity is a mystery". we of "diversified oneness", say no, that's a trick of the devil. will one sit here and have God give you the bible and tell you that you can know his Godhead and then don't reveal it to you? NO, if that was true then God would be just as worst as the devil, God forbid. listen, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them”. WAIT a minute, God has Shown us? yes, by what's manifested in us. well HOW? next verse. Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse”. here God tells us clearly that his Godhead can be understood, by what he made, and it's manifested in us. but false teaching has muddle your minds. so let get MR. Clean/the LORD JESUS in here to clean up our filthy little dirty MINDS so we may see him, the TRUTH. the scripture states, his Godhead are seen by the THINGS that are MADE, and this is manifested in us.

step #1. what things was made that shows the Godhead? answer, MANKIND/ADAM. what do we mean here? “ANOTHER” of oneself in Flesh. for Adam means "ANOTHER" of ONESELF.

step #2. ok, an ”ANOTHER” but HOW? answer, by “sharing” of ONESELF in a different form. hence the "distinct" but not separate.

step #3. ok, “Sharing” of oneself, but HOW? answer, coming from the First, or the source, other words, “emanating”, which means, (of something abstract but perceptible) issue or spread out from (a source).

now knowing these steps, lets put them together. Adam was made of God corect, and Eve “came” out of the man Adam correct. now the Lord Jesus said this at John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father”.

this word “came forth” in the Greek is G1831 ἐξέρχομαι exerchomai (ex-er'-cho-mai) v.
to issue.
{literally or figuratively}
[from G1537 and G2064]
KJV: come (forth, out), depart (out of), escape, get out, go (abroad, away, forth, out, thence), proceed (forth), spread abroad
Root(s): G1537, G2064

notice the definition “to issue”. now lets Go to Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God”. the term “Form” is the Greek word, G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313

notice it’s root word where it comes from which reveals the nature of the Godhead, listen, its the Greek word, G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1.a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
in definition #1. a Portion means “SHARE”, which also means “ISSUE” as in “came forth” in John 16:28 ... so the Lord Jesus is the "EQUAL" of the same "Spirit"/Holy Spirit which you call GOD. Jesus is a "DISTINCT "entity" of the same one person who he "ISSUED", "Came forth" from, or "SHARD" in Nature with, "EQUALLY". BINGO.

this is what separate diversified oneness form the trinity. instead of a separate person, it's the same person only equally "shared...
not two separate person who is God, that's two seperate Gods. but diversified oneness have only "ONE" person who is "shared" that IS God. man oh man how easy it is.

so if one just research, and root out words the answer will be given unto. as the scriptures states, 2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth”.

so we divided the word of TRUTH correctly. we used scriptures and research to reveal the TRUTH. (BINGO).
PICJAG.

If you want to continue in your heresy at your disaster, that is up to you. Honestly, I believe anyone who denies the Trinity is not of the faith.

 

[Enoch111]

I see one of the problem that many are having with the false doctrine of the trinity.

When someone calls a true doctrine false, and false doctrines true, it means that there is no light in them.

To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this Word, it is because there is no light in them. (Isa 8:20)