The Double-edged Sword

[farouk]

There is a difference with the indwelling Holy Spirit. The veil was torn for a reason.

Good to reckon in one's thinking whether one is talking about Old or New Testament; Israel or the church; the veil being rent was a pivotal event.

 

[bbyrd009]

There is a difference with the indwelling Holy Spirit.

well, i see we insist on having one anyway, at least in theory.

The veil was torn for a reason.

strikes me as a diff subject, or even maybe helping to make my point (of course, right), so you would have to expand there a little maybe, but i'm thinking you do have a good point

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Song of Solomon is indeed a rather special book with a character of its own. A lot of ppl see it as about Christ and the church; as a dispensationalist I would see it rather as being about the relationship between Christ and Israel (albeit with many applications to us in the church).

See, here we disagree but that is okay. IF Song of Songs was to Israel being only the Jewish people then the Spirit would not speak to my heart in the Songs. It is frustrating when people call it erotic songs when they are pure(Spiritual) and of a love like no other. The Spiritual Word became flesh. In doing so, did the word become subject to man’s perversions apart from God? On the surface the word of God is used to justify satisfying about every desire man might have...multiple wives, children wives, beating the wickedness out of children, hating, greed, cults ...can’t think of all the ways the word is distorted but it is all around us.

It is Spiritual. Then there is neither Greek nor Jew nor Gentile nor female, nor male...but One in God. Was Moses or Job or David a part of the body of Christ? Same with the Songs. Israel is His dominion of light which is to be over us all?? Where the new birth comes from. ...Daniel 2:22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.

 

[farouk]

See, here we disagree but that is okay. IF Song of Songs was to Israel being only the Jewish people then the Spirit would not speak to my heart in the Songs. It is frustrating when people call it erotic songs when they are pure(Spiritual) and of a love like no other. The Spiritual Word became flesh. In doing so, did the word become subject to man’s perversions apart from God? On the surface the word of God is used to justify satisfying about every desire man might have...multiple wives, children wives, beating the wickedness out of children, hating, greed, cults ...can’t think of all the ways the word is distorted but it is all around us.

It is Spiritual. Then there is neither Greek nor Jew nor Gentile nor female, nor male...but One in God. Was Moses or Job or David a part of the body of Christ? Same with the Songs. Israel is His dominion of light which is to be over us all?? Where the new birth comes from. ...Daniel 2:22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.

Well, I don't see the church in the Old Testament at all. Applications for the church, yes, but not directly as a revealed entity. There are many wonderful applications for the church in Song of Solomon, but I do think it's Israel primarily in view.

 

[bbyrd009]

not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Well, I don't see the church in the Old Testament at all. Applications for the church, yes, but not directly as a revealed entity. There are many wonderful applications for the church in Song of Solomon, but I do think it's Israel primarily in view.

Yep the Spiritual Israel was and is always in view ...the Old has passed away...all things have been made new. But that is just where I stand until He shows otherwise.

 

[farouk]

Yep the Spiritual Israel was and is always in view ...the Old has passed away...all things have been made new. But that is just where I stand until He shows otherwise.

I think that Romans 9, 10 and 11 would show that Israel does indeed have a future; and Old Testament passages about future events do seem to have Israel as their subject.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I think that Romans 9, 10 and 11 would show that Israel does indeed have a future; and Old Testament passages about future events do seem to have Israel as their subject.

I do see what you are saying and I don’t know. All I know is I used to be certain of a coming rapture and I was waiting for God to come in His wrath and slaughter every one left behind until the blood rises up to the horses bridle...and I can no longer hold tight to these as absolutes. That is all. One has to really consider: 2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Brightness in my life has had about the same impact it had on Paul’s life...it destroyed who I once was.

 

[farouk]

I do see what you are saying and I don’t know. All I know is I used to be certain of a coming rapture and I was waiting for God to come in His wrath and slaughter every one left behind until the blood rises up to the horses bridle...and I can no longer hold tight to these as absolutes. That is all. One has to really consider: 2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Brightness in my life has had about the same impact it had on Paul’s life...it destroyed who I once was.

I do think it's important to distinguish what the church is looking for - the Lord's coming for the church, 1 Thess. - as opposed to what awaits the world.

 

[bbyrd009]

I do think it's important to distinguish what the church is looking for - the Lord's coming for the church, 1 Thess. - as opposed to what awaits the world.

imo if one defines Israel as a country and the congregation they attend as church then they will be hopelessly deceived until these are understood correctly